All this foreign policy chaos is conveniently distracting from the story Trump doesn't want to discuss, which again is Jeffrey Epstein.
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
I'm doing well. How are you?
This has been quite a week. What's going on in this country is really disturbing on so many levels.
It's been disturbing. And I don't know what to say. I think we probably should just get to the news.
First, very quickly, Donald Trump — and I can't believe I'm saying this — is threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act as anti-ICE protests intensify in Minneapolis, largely because they've been egged on by ICE itself. The latest protest in the city began when a federal officer shot a man in the leg on Wednesday, just a week after an ICE agent fatally shot 37-year-old Renee Good. I don't quite know what to say. This is like they are — from what the word in Washington is, Stephen Miller wants something that he can invoke the Insurrection Act and then declare martial law so they can't have midterm elections. That's the conspiracy theory running around Washington right now. And I got to say, this is — they are causing the problem. You can look at these videos and see like absolutely pushing over old people, asking for people's papers. I feel like I'm in the middle of like a Nazi movie or something at this point. Thoughts?
Well, we talked about this the last time. The very founding of America was meant to avoid this — not wanting a monarch that could have unilateral unchecked power and start harassing and terrorizing the population is the basis of the founding of America. The question is, what do you do about it? And what's really disappointed me, and I've been on the phone with a couple Democrats, is I believe that people at ICE and the officials and administrators who have ordered them and created a context around this, I think that they potentially could be guilty of second or third degree murder, of manslaughter, of criminally negligent homicide, and absolutely of assault. And what I would be doing very publicly in the Congress and Senate is proposing two types of laws which will not pass now. But should we have the kind of momentum we believe we're going to have in '26 and then in '28, make sure that these officials ordering this type of depraved behavior and the people executing it understand that this is absolutely a possibility. And those two bills are the following.
One is criminal charges and resources that will be allocated to and vary with a fine-tooth comb. Go through all of this video and be willing to charge these individuals. And two, something that says potentially that for certain types of crimes, including anything with the word homicide in it, that from this point forward, once the pardons are no longer valid, there has to be — I do find that the Democrats, you know, the strongly worded letter kind of defines, in my opinion, and Democrats will say, 'Well, look, there was very little we can do,' and I'm sympathetic to that because they are the minority in all three houses. I get it. But these folks need to be reminded very swiftly that, okay, the same overrun of judicial power and co-equal branches of government that you've committed, we could do the same, but we're going to do it to quite frankly weaponize — not weaponize. We believe the law, just enforced as it is correctly, could put many of these people behind bars or at a minimum impair their careers, which would be justifiable. And begin laying the groundwork.
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that's hard is that they keep doubling down, right? Like there was a — you know, this — I'm sorry, it's a specious report from CBS News. No surprise at this point, about —
They're relying less on experts and academics and speaking to you.
Don't make me go into that ridiculous disaster over there.
Can I just rant on that for a minute?
Please go right ahead, because you can Nikki Glazer this for me, my friend. Go ahead.
I actually like — she made a joke I'm referencing. I like the guy next to the anchor. I actually think he's a great pick. I think he's handsome, which I think —
That's all they could get. But go ahead.
I think he's really solid. I think he's really handsome.
That's all they could get. They were looking elsewhere, but go ahead.
And I assume that he's a good person because I like Katie Couric and assume that anyone she decides to spend her life with is a good person. But that opening monologue, you know, it was fine except for the part — and we're going to rely less on the academics and the experts and more on what the people think. That's saying, okay, we're going to start entertaining conspiracy theory and misinformation. By the way, folks, the word expert in the US might as well be the word meritocracy.
Yeah. And that is — you can be a kid growing up in the poorest village outside of Hyderabad in India, and if you are just so talented and hardworking and smart and end up at, I think it's called IIT, you can end up being one of those experts at Harvard that they're not going to listen to, that knows more than anyone else in the world on mRNA vaccines. You can be, you know, the son of a single mother who lived and died an expert and someday, quote unquote, work your ass off to be considered an expert in brand strategy. So this notion that they're not going to listen to expertise, it's like we want an excuse to impose political values or Ouija boards or horoscopes or whatever's trending on Twitter as opposed to listening to the people who've actually earned it. And one of the great things about America is it is in fact a meritocracy. Sometimes it's a bit too much of a meritocracy, and that is the people who aren't talented or are unfortunate live a very harsh life here. But be clear, meritocracy means capitalism means expertise.
People who are experts are science.
Yeah. People who get paid a lot to provide input. So if we're not going with the experts and the academics —
I don't mind, and they've done this forever. News does a lot of kind of quote unquote man on the street. Let's talk to people in the community and see how they feel at the barber shop or the diner. But we're going to start listening to them about vaccine safety, not epidemiologists who have written peer-reviewed research for the last 30 years.
Let me interject here because it's repulsive. I know you're being very kind to this guy, but he's done six or seven things that are really problematic. One is talking about being more transparent than Walter Cronkite, doing this kiss-ass. All the interviews, I'm so sorry, but they're PR for the Trump administration is what they are. They're terrible interviews, and he has an opportunity given they're sucking up to do an actual tough interview. He is doing a disservice to journalism in these interviews given that he's got this access.
But it isn't any worse than Fox. I mean —
Yes, exactly. Thank you. Fox is entertainment. Like, this is CBS News saying he's more transparent than Walter Cronkite. We unapologetically love America. But what does a news organization need to — that's not their job. We're going to do — we're going to give one — the one they did this week is really another one he said this week was just equally idiotic. And there was a story in the New York Times that everyone should read. Like, we want to be the news. News does not want to be the news. Reports the news. You know, this is a stunt. This is all stunts all the time, flying across the country. It's the people — I know a lot of people at CBS News beside themselves is what's happening there. And it's depressing to watch, and this guy is doing it. I'm sorry. Whatever you think of him as a nice person, and I think he probably is. I know Katie. Katie's terrific. But it doesn't matter. This is just a disservice. It's a state organization. It's a state media organization is what's happening. And this story — let me get back to what we were talking about. This ICE officer has all these internal injuries. You get internal bleeding from taking Advil? Everybody, we don't see this guy. There's no proof of it. And they just all they do is say, 'Federal officials say it.' Here, here, here, Pravda. Here's what we want you to say. That's it. It doesn't have any reporting involved in it. And it's in order to create this ridiculous — and everyone has seen the video that this guy was more hurt than her. I'm sorry. She's dead and he has, I don't know, a bruise. Like, I'm — this then to facilitate that is really bad. And so I think what they're trying to do is create equalization and trying to sort of smear this woman who seems to have been in the PTA, you know, calling this whole thing about women, wine moms, angry wine moms, or white women who are smug to be lectured by men, white men who are smug, who actually invented smug. It's just this equalization. And again, one person's dead, one person's shot in the leg, and the others aren't. And I just don't know what to say. And for a news organization to go along with that is really an embarrassment to the profession.
It's fucking irrelevant. If HBO is cocaine and Netflix is edibles, CBS is literally like fiber supplement. I mean —
Psyllium. What's it called?
Psyllium. If you were to visit one of their editorial meetings —
Yeah. You'd go in and you'd see a giant whiteboard and they'd write, 'Okay, our audience is tired, scared, and eating a lot of soup.'
You're right. The numbers are really fucking matter. Can't be Fox News. Let me pick up a lower-middle-income 83-year-old in Iowa who —
I know, but Fox does it well. I have to say they do their heinous shit well.
Well, they've gone full stripper-pole-cosplaying political news. I mean —
And they're also very talented and they've leaned into —
They're entertaining in a really heinous way, I would say. Anyway, you're right. No one — the numbers are down.
I wouldn't even know how to find CBS on my — although I have been watching — wait, is Landman — that's CBS? That's Paramount.
But he's leaving. He went over to Universal.
Yeah, but he produced Blam. I really enjoy that guy. Super talented. I've tried to get him on my show. I love all his shows. I watched Yellowstone from the start, but they're all going — he's leaving, going over to Universal. It's — I don't know, some shit up.
Let me guess. More money.
Anyway, good for him. Landman is really good. There are some good shows in Paramount. I really like them.
But I want you to — where do you think this goes from here? I get that you want Democrats to speak out more, but what is the — I mean, because the numbers for Trump are cratering on all this stuff. So it's obviously, Scott, he's got to go to martial law, right?
There's the problem. The numbers are cratering for Trump. They've almost plunged to the levels of Democrats.
Who are going up? Who are going up? Oh —
Well, no, with young men. There's a few polls out that show really significant shifts, but go ahead.
It's the worst cocktail in the world for democracy, and that is you have a fascist who doesn't have a credible opposition. I just think we look weak and feckless. I don't —
Who's — I want you to focus on the fascist and not on the feckless for a minute.
Well, I want to focus on being effective and what the fuck we actually need to do to push back on those fascists. And if you don't have an objective group of leaders emerging who are powerfully talking about creating a series of incentives to stop this shit, it doesn't matter. And just sitting around thinking, scolding them and saying, 'Isn't this awful?' and vote in 2026. It's like —
That's not exactly leadership. Mhm.
I want to see legislation of how we're going to track down and prosecute and indict and subpoena these people, including all the crypto scammers, and a series of laws or proposals and legislation that does not give the retroactively can unmask protection from pardons because they have been so hugely abused. Unless you give these people the sense that there's a non-zero probability that they will be held accountable for these actions, they're going to continue.
And we don't have anyone with the moral authority right now, or the charisma, or the leadership to stand up and quite frankly rally America more than the images they're seeing on social media that just horrifies them.
Yeah, it's absolutely true.
Anyway, moving on. The US has started evacuating some troops from a base in Qatar ahead of a potential military conflict with Iran. Though Trump says he's been told the killing in Iran has stopped, no executions are planned, indicating he may be moving away from taking military action. You know, I don't know what's going to happen here. There's all this weird vetting happening by individuals, again, very similar to the Venezuelan invasion. There are insiders in the government making money off of these military actions and maybe influencing them, too. That's another scary thing to think about. What do you imagine happening? And at the same time, Denmark, Greenland, and their NATO allies, including France and Germany, are increasing the military presence in and around Greenland. I can't believe I'm saying this. The move comes in the wake of a meeting at the White House between JD Vance, Marco Rubio, and foreign ministers at Denmark and Greenland. The Danish foreign minister said the talks were constructive, but fundamental disagreement remains. Ahead of the meeting, Donald Trump posted on Truth Social that anything less than US control of Greenland is unacceptable. Feels very nerve-wracking. At the same time, there was an interesting article in — I forget where it was — that JD Vance and Marco Rubio may be slow-rolling this into the grass so that Trump — they don't want it to happen, this Greenland thing. And so they're just dragging it out so that Trump loses interest in the situation. But I don't know, seems very strange to go to war with France.
I mean, first off, there's a few things here. The potential for insider trading is just so insane.
On Polymarket right now. So Polymarket right now puts the likelihood that Khamenei will be out of supreme leader before 2027 at 63%. So if you're part of the inner circle — and by the way, there's reports that they are transferring, the senior leadership is transferring millions of dollars out of Iran, which is a very hopeful sign because they think they need to get the hell out. But if you know, okay, on Wednesday we're all headed to Moscow, easy way to make 50% on your money would be betting on one of these markets. So just be clear, folks, just as the casino has figured out the odds of these numerical games that on average over time they win. When you don't have inside information on these things, eventually you're playing at a disadvantage. The footnote here is the following, or the disclosure: I have not had any substantive conversations before I say that, because this is such a hot topic, with anyone senior in the Israeli government. This is pure speculation on my part. But I talk a lot about Israel. My background is in brand, and I would consistently get calls from people in Israel, in the government and in the private sector, saying, 'What can we do about our brand? The brand Israel is so terrible around the world.' And the general belief is if you look at actually what we're doing relative to other wars, it's just being characterized unfairly. And we think a lot of it — we're shocked at how poorly our brand, or how dramatically our brand is eroded. And I remember when I was a kid, the Israeli brand was one of the strongest brands in the world, and TV, Munich, they were just seen as the good guys. They are no longer seen as the good guys. And so they're constantly calling and asking what can we do about the brand. I think the most brand-creative move that Israel could do, the biggest opportunity for Israel right now, would be to go in and do what they did when they decided to take out their air defenses, or something along the same lines. And that is when they decided to take out their air defenses and basically neuter Iran, who has been the primary sponsor of terror across the region for a couple decades. They said, 'Okay, there are basically — when our jets fly in, the surface-to-air missiles, the air defense systems are operated by this group of people, and there's six to eight people that need to give the order to fire missiles at alien aircraft.' And you know what they did that day? They killed them. They had targeted assassinations. Within like an hour, six of the eight were dead. And then when the radar sent these F-15s flying in, there was no one to give the order. And I know that sounds really macabre and ugly, but in my opinion, these are murderers right now. I think if they were — it's clear that the Mossad has deeply penetrated soft assets at the highest level in Iran. But coordinated military strikes of centers of civilian suppression with the US Air Force and on the ground soft assets that wreak havoc across what is a murderous IRGC right now, I think is not only geopolitically very smart over the long term, but I think would be very good for a brand Israel right now.
Well, they've got a lot of things to do. Let's be there.
Right, but I think this — you know what I thought I found really heartening, these protests in New York where I see Iranian and flags of Israel. I actually find that quite encouraging.
You saw many push back. You saw AOC push back on a lot of these more, you know, Hamas-supporting stuff. They were very clear about what happened. I think one of the things is that with Iran, you and I both agree that Iran is a menacing country. And also would be a really huge opportunity for —
The leadership, the IRGC, the Islamic Republic.
Yeah, it would be a thing. I think it'll be interesting to see what — I think the juxtaposition here is Trump trying to create and ferment protests by brutality here in this country and brutalizing protesters and then supporting protesters in Iran. I think that's the obvious.
Yeah, I hadn't connected that. You're right. That's right.
And then going after, you know, Greenland when, you know, you have something like Ukraine sitting there and blaming again Vladimir Zelensky in what's happening. But the idea of us going to war with France, I mean, or France having to send military things. What an insane moment. Like these are our friends. These are our allies. These are places we like to go. Like we like to be part of. And so I think, you know, let me get the reason I think all this foreign policy chaos is conveniently distracting from the story Trump doesn't want to discuss, which again is Jeffrey Epstein. It's been nearly a month since the deadline for releasing the Epstein files came and went. And the Justice Department appears to be going nowhere close to making the full files public. I think they have 1% or something. The DOJ sent a filing last week that it reviewed more about 12,000 documents out of more than two million. Incredible amount of documents. Democratic Representative Ro Khanna and Republican Representative Thomas Massie, who is really quite a badass these days, had filed a complaint with a federal judge. They're asking for the judge to appoint what they call a special master to force the DOJ to release the files. I actually spoke with Ro on the latest episode of On with Kara Swisher and asked him what happens next because this is actually a process. They have gotten the law passed. The DOJ has to comply. The DOJ didn't comply. Now they have to do this. Let's listen.
We will see some of these millions of documents because the Justice Department has said to the judge they're releasing them. The question is the quality of that and will they have excessive reductions. And then Thomas Massie and I are planning to introduce inherent contempt. Inherent contempt, if it passes the House, it just requires the House would find Pam Bondi personally $10,000 a day for every document that she didn't release. Whether that passes and is in force, the point is it's showing the crack in the MAGA base, which is interesting. Let me just finish.
That's actually doing something. That's kudos to that person.
Yes. And also, they're trying to get this special master, which I think is another thing, which is probably the right thing to do here.
Meanwhile, Bill and Hillary Clinton released a scathing letter to — got to read this letter — to the House Oversight Committee this week saying they will not testify in the Epstein investigation. I will say Ro said they should testify. At the same time, they are having quite a good point, noting every person has to decide when they have seen or had enough and are ready to fight for this country, its principles, its people, no matter the consequences. For us, now is the time. The House Republicans are moving to hold both Clintons in contempt. Of course, they don't think Trump should testify, which is a good reason for the Clintons maybe not to. This continues to be the story that doesn't go away. And talk about what's happening here because you know he is doing a lot of this to get the focus off of Epstein, which is going to come out no matter what he does. I mean, this is not to be quashed at this point is my feeling, but —
I just want to go back to Denmark for a moment. Talk about abstain.
Yeah. So, my favorite meal in the world is In-N-Out animal style at the Sepulveda, the In-N-Out on Sepulveda near LA. Because what it means is I've just gotten to LA. I'm about to roll into the Beverly Hills Hotel, roll up to the bar. Perhaps get my eye contact returned from a lovely woman who perhaps might be from Russia. But it just signals a bunch of good things are about to happen. Karen, I'm about to roll with my buddy Mike. I absolutely love LA. My second favorite meal is a latte and grapefruit and yogurt at Jack's Wife Freda. Just sitting out there watching the world go by. I feel like I'm an author in, I don't know, 1920s France. My third —
Can I just note if we were on the Newlywed Game, I would know all this. But go ahead. I do know all this. My favorite one, Bob Eubanks, outstanding talk show host, asked, 'What is somewhere recently you've gone that was interesting, or where do you want to go, or where have you visited recently that you and your husband enjoyed?' And she looked down and then she looked up and said, 'In the ass.' And they didn't even bleep it out because they were so shocked. And it was good times. And so, my third favorite meal is anything from Chipotle. The fact that Chipotle is not a sponsor of everything I do is a crime against commerce. I can walk into Chipotle with a blindfold and I walk out with a smile on my face.
This Denmark is similar to me showing up with an AR-15 and zip ties and a military vest and saying, 'If you don't give me a burrito bowl with pork, extra guacamole, and sour cream and brown rice for $14.73, I'm going to kill everyone here.'
Right. And they'd say, 'Well, sir —'
This is Trump is the person.
Sir, we would do this anyways. There's no need for guns. There's no need for military vest. You —
There is absolutely an argument around why Greenland is strategic. It's a passage for not only all kinds of commerce, maritime commerce, but also for nuclear submarines. It would be a staging ground for any attack. It's hugely important. It also supposedly has about 17% — is it 17% or 12% — of rare earth materials.
Ours, all of it is — or not even ours. The whole point of the new world order post-1945 was we said to nations, rather than going on conquests, try this thing called reciprocal, mutually beneficial trade and commerce.
And it's less expensive than firing —
Bases. We could have as many bases there as we want.
We used to have, I think, 11. We closed them down. And now we have one.
They're like — there's 57,000 people. They up until recently really liked Americans and they like the jobs. Like, sure, put a —
Put a nuclear submarine base here. Put a tracking. Put a radar station. Whatever you want. If you want to start —
You want to come up trade deals around the minerals.
Whatever you want, sir. We will give you your burrito bowl. You don't need to bring a gun into Chipotle.
I like this Chipotle metaphor. I was wondering where you were going with that.
By the way, my new favorite restaurant in New York is a place called The Corner Store. Oh my god, so many fabulous people there.
The French Dip. You heard it here. You're welcome.
All right. Okay. Anyway, this just makes no fucking sense. Look, the Epstein files —
There's no getting around it, Kara. It's probably — President Clinton looks really bad here. There's just —
This is what Ro noted, but nonetheless, it was a great —
There's just no getting around here. But again, Ro is right except for the following. And one of the reasons why one of the other pieces of material that's been stained indelibly by the Trump administration is that many of the activities — testifying in front of Congress, not having your children trade in crypto and leverage the presidency to get multi-billion-dollar deals. There's actually few laws against them. What they are is they've been enforced by norms. And we've had norms in this country where if you're called before Congress, you go —
Regardless of who you are.
You don't act like a jackass every —
And because Trump has just waved the middle finger at so many norms and —
Which he did this week in Detroit, but go ahead. And because we have abdicated, as Barry Goldwater back in the late '60s and early '70s, because we have abdicated and quite frankly recklessly and ignorantly transferred so much power to the executive branch that this guy has not only been able to blow through stop signs, he can mow over children in the crosswalk and say, 'Yeah, fuck it. There's no law against it.' And so I think, and this is how society's kind of just digressed. So understandably and justifiably, the Clintons are saying, 'Oh, these norms no longer apply. We don't have — if what's good for them is good for us.' In any other administration, if the Clintons had been called before Congress, they would have said, 'Absolutely, we'll come testify.' They would show up. They're very smart. They're very well-prepared, and they would have performed excellently. Instead, they want to make theater and connect Epstein more to Clinton and a Democrat than to —
I don't know. I think they want to get arrested and show that Trump doesn't have to testify. I think that's precisely —
They want to get arrested. I'm sorry.
They want to get arrested.
Yes. They want to make a spectacle of it.
They want to make a spectacle and they want to point out that they want to have the Clintons testify, but not Trump.
The Clintons, but not Trump.
You know more about this than I do.
Trump is not — the committee doesn't want Trump to testify. Why wouldn't they? Trump was closer to Epstein. I mean, on —
The committee is controlled by Republicans.
No. No, I get that. But I'm just saying that they want to do this — that I think they wouldn't write a letter.
The Clintons want to do this.
Yes, the Clintons want to make some fucking noise. That's my guess here if I had to guess because I think they both — they also noted they gave a lot of information. They've been cooperative, but they're not going to appear essentially if Trump doesn't. And I think that's — I think people can grok that pretty clearly. You know what I mean? And I do think they want to be tried for this. I think that's what they're doing. I think that's —
I don't think William Jefferson Clinton wants to be tried under oath for anything to do with Epstein.
You don't write a letter like that if you don't want. It's a dare. It's a dare.
Well, they're both lawyers and my guess is the best lawyers in the world reviewed it whether they signed it or not.
Got it. But it's a dare. You wouldn't send a letter like that if you didn't want something to happen. If you didn't want —
Well, and you were smarter than me, so I defer to your strategy.
Yeah. We'll see. Nonetheless, the Epstein files should be released. And what Trump is doing is distraction, distraction, distraction. There is something that he does not want to come out. I don't know if it's about him. It's definitely about his friends. So this is what's happening here. He's trying to get it out. And by the way, the people that want it out the most is the MAGA base. So, and now me and now Scott and now the rest of the country. So we'll see. All right, we're going to go to a quick break. We come back, Paramount sues Warner Brothers.
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Scott, we're back with more news. The battle for Warner Brothers is continuing and as Paramount continues to fall downstairs on this in deal-making. Paramount filed a lawsuit against Warner Brothers and its CEO David Zaslav this week trying to get them to turn over details of their sale process and the Netflix deal. Warner Brothers is calling the lawsuit meritless. Paramount also announced plans to nominate its own slate of directors to Warner Brothers' board to vote against the next deal. This is very typical in these fights. Netflix is making some moves ahead of its own, reportedly amending its offer to an all-cash deal, very savvy, which could speed up the process significantly. The stock is down, so it makes sense and it makes it more attractive and gets that problem out of the way, the stock declining. I'd love you to talk about the board dynamics. I talked to Bill Cohan last night and he was like, I don't understand why you would sugarcoat it, give the money, give $34 a share. You don't do vinegar here after doing so many stupid things in this deal. And actually, let me note lengthening the time frame because Trump is — if martial law doesn't happen, Trump loses the House and the Senate, this deal is fucked for the Paramount people. So, the time frame is really bad for them at this point. They're taking too long to get this. If they got their hands on this, Trump will be damaged by the time and unable to help them. But what do you think of this proxy strategy? You've been in the middle of these things a million times.
Yeah, Bill's exactly right. At some point, I mean, they went through a long process and to Zaslav and their banker's credit, they got the number much higher than anyone, including me, had anticipated. And at some point, they have to say, 'Okay, this is why we're picking this deal. You have to be able to economically justify it for shareholders.' There was justification for a lot of reasons that Netflix is the superior bid. And I have never been on a company that's been acquired or has acquired another company or has gone out of business where there's not lawsuits. I was on the board of Eddie Bauer when we declared bankruptcy. I was on —
Really? You were on the board of Eddie Bauer? I forgot. Okay.
Yeah. Well, because I'm such a great outdoorsman. It just made sense.
I can't see you hiking anyway. We're going on a hike someday. Go ahead.
Anyways, these guys don't scare easily. They just end the law. The lawsuit's not going to have any merit. It just might tie it up or delay it. But it just adds another moving part to what is already going to be a complicated, messy situation. The only thing that talks here is they got to put $354 a share on the table. They've got to — and not only that, the incremental offer has to be great enough to justify a potential breakup where I believe WBD would have to pay Netflix $2 billion.
Yes, exactly. And also all those loan covenant things they have to get their nose out of. They have to let Warner Brothers do those loan things.
So the only way this happens — they're not going to block this deal with lawsuits. The only way this happens is if Larry Ellison goes, 'Whatever. I'm 81 fucking years old. I'm worth — I don't know. I think he's the third richest man in the world. I know he's less wealthy now. But that he just says, or Saudi money shows up and says, 'Larry, if you're willing to put in another 10, we'll put in another 10.' And they show up with a 15% premium to the current offer. That's the only way the board is legally — because of Revlon laws. Mhm. I don't even think it can even be incremental. If it's a 3 or 5%, they would say the additional risk injected into the deal and the breakup fee means that this is a wash and we are just going with this dance partner as committed.
There was a really interesting note. You know, you and I both know Vivi Nevo. He's so funny. He's a funny little guy. Who is a very big investor in a lot of stuff and he's very amusing on many levels. And has been a sort of a quiet whisperer to lots of moguls. He was sitting next to David Zaslav at — which many people pointed out — at the Golden Globes, which was — and not with — and he's a Warner Brothers shareholder — and not with David Ellison, who apparently was seated in the back, but as he's being insulted by the host of a show that's on his network, which I loved. It was really interesting. That was a really interesting Zaslav sort of flexing a little bit there having Vivi next to him. And I think this — I get lawsuits are typical but it seems like not the way to do this. Like just give them the money. I just keep going and same thing that Bill says, give them the money. Just give them the money. That will work. Why aren't they giving them the money? That's —
Well, you mean offer more money. Yeah. Offer — best their bid. Top their bid.
So, in '25 my big tech stock pick, or my stock pick, was Alphabet. This year it's Amazon. Do you know what my stock pick in '24 was?
And at the end of the year it was down 10%. So —
Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, I thought these assets will go. What will be interesting — and this is going to come back to my prediction. What will be interesting is I think all of these bankers and financiers figuring out they could in fact — they can in fact do whatever — $100 billion is a 12-figure deal — once this thing is done or has left the station, you know who they're going to turn their sights on.
Disney's going to be put in play by somebody.
Yeah. Yeah. And then I will be doing the lovely exit interview with Robert Iger. So yeah, I agree, but it has to be done. Interestingly, at the same time, say Apple is the obvious candidate for that particular purchase.
There's going to be a new CEO at Apple relatively soon and a new CEO at Disney. So those —
Which do you think will come first?
Huh. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah.
