We used to be the cop or the protection when we hear a knock at the door. Now we are the knock at the door.
Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
And where are you, Scott?
Somewhere over the North Atlantic. Kara, where are you?
All right. I am in my studio in DC. But we recorded... Corey, maintain eye contact. Maintain eye contact.
Is Corey Lewandowski with you?
Yeah. So, I'm fairly certain.
Yeah. He's not going to keep his job either.
I'm guessing. Well, let me just give people back it up for a minute. Scott, we recorded earlier but had to hop back on. Hence why you're on a plane and we're redoing this. President Trump has fired Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, giving her a fake job. Trump announced the move on Truth Social, saying Noem had served us well and has had numerous and spectacular results. He announced that Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin would replace Noem. Noem is stepping into a new role. Apparently, she wasn't quite fired. I don't know what this is. It's like a firing.
She's like special envoy to Hulu original programming or something.
She's special envoy. Let's get it right. Special envoy to the Shield of the Americas. I don't even... That's like a bad Marvel movie. I feel like the one that we don't want to watch. But let's talk about this because later in the show we'll be talking about a lot of things happening right now for the Republicans. But talk to me about this firing a little bit.
Well, supposedly, I mean, you might have more information than me, but supposedly it wasn't the conflict of interest of having an affair with her number two. It wasn't essentially killing American citizens. It wasn't essentially overseeing what I would argue are the definition of concentration camps, and that is black sites outside legal jurisdiction or protection of your country, which is the definition of a concentration camp. It was supposedly what was the straw that broke Trump's back was that she had spent close to or over $200 million, I believe, on ads featuring her, which appear to be courtesy of her number two, an attempt to raise her awareness for a presidential run. That was what angered Trump. What have you heard, Kara?
She was advantaging herself, and Trump likes to only advantage himself, right? And so anybody else who's trying to do that... There was also the question of these two recent congressional hearings. To me, I felt the writing was on the wall because Republicans in the Senate particularly were really going after her. So they knew that they had no repercussions to do so, right? If they had gone after her because they were good people or because they had a backbone... I think only Thom Tillis has been doing that because he's leaving. This is Senator Tillis from North Carolina. I think they had permission to go after her, whether it was Kennedy, John Kennedy, or others that really did attack her. And the Democrats did an excellent job, too, bringing up all these issues you talked about. I just felt like it was open season on her, so to speak, someone who enjoys killing dogs. And, you know, even the reaction has been interesting. Senator Thom Tillis, who was very upset about the disaster relief fuckups, I think very much so, and also about getting rid of people, I mean, going after people who didn't commit any crimes, right? Just in terms of he kept talking about a quota system. Why are you doing it on a quota system in these hearings? His thing on X saying goodbye was: 'Senator Markwayne Mullin is a great guy and a great choice to lead DHS, restore competence and refocus efforts on quickly distributing disaster aid.' That's the first thing he noted. 'Keeping the border secure and targeting violent illegal immigrants for deportation.' Another big positive. 'He likes dogs.' Which of course is a reference to her killing her dog. People are having a field day about this, of course, on the thing. Although one of the good ones about Markwayne Mullin, who was a senator from Oklahoma, was he can't even have a border between his name, Mark and Wayne, Markwayne. But no, people, the Republicans felt emboldened to attack her, and therefore it was very clear that they got their signals from the White House, would be my guess.
I mean, that just goes to what a poor manager and what a low-character person, spoiler alert, the president is. And that is when you hire people and you expect them to be part of a team. If you know you're going to fire them, which it sounds like he did because it took about three seconds. The moment they announced she was leaving, they announced her replacement, to quite frankly trot her out and use her as an anger pillow and humiliate her before showing her the door, knowing that you were going to fire, as opposed to saying, 'Look, we're making a change. There's no reason for you to go in front of Congress,' or once you resign, you probably will not be called. Maybe they still would have called her.
That last two days in Congress was bad.
But that was okay. We have absolutely no respect, fidelity, camaraderie for the people I hire. And if it serves my political purposes, I will throw them under the bus and then back up the bus and run over them again.
That's the Trump way, right? That's the Trump way. And in fact, he doesn't even give her the... I don't think she deserves any dignity. The dignity of just firing her like, 'You're fired.' I mean, the guy who's so famous for doing 'You're fired' cannot say 'You're fired.' You have to give him this symmetrical envoy to the Shield of the Americas, which, and of course she's bragging as if she won, right? As if it was a good thing, because like even as she's humiliated, and by the way, the next humiliation is going to be Pam Bondi, right? That's obvious. He's going to go all the ladies, as you know, of the Trump administration are in big trouble, and they will be the first to go. They'll get to Kash Patel at some point, or maybe not. But like another incompetent, another, you know, same thing with Pam Bondi, mendacious and incompetent. And so the fact that he hasn't let go so many of these people already who are just not up to the task really says a ton about his management style.
I think they're more strategic than people want to give them credit for. And when I was a consultant, I would review decks and associates going in to present to a management team. I would ask a series of questions. And one of the questions I would ask, I would say, I would ask, who's in the room that's not in the room? And that is, what is the context, what are the influences, what is the overarching theme of the vibe in this room, or their objectives before you even show up. And the two people that are always in the room around any Trump official and any public activity are, one, Roy Cohn. If you look at the way these people have put themselves in front of the Senate and the Congress, one of the greatest erosions in the grand equity of the United States is there has always been a level of civility and decorum. They aren't that South Korean Senate where they break into fisticuffs or they start yelling at each other. There was always a certain amount of respect. But this Roy Cohn deny, deflect, obfuscate, attack, 'You're ashamed of yourself. You're a failed lawyer. Go on. Don't answer the question.' That has in and among itself eroded the value and the prestige of the Senate. Roy Cohn is always in the room when these guys testify. The person that's always in the room is Epstein. And I believe there are three people armed with LLMs monitoring the temperature of Epstein in the news. And when it gets above a certain temperature, they think of distractions. And nothing is better than one of these hearings or declaring war or saying you're going to raise tariffs of 50%. But I literally think they are monitoring the number of times Epstein and Trump are linked together when it gets above a certain temperature in the press. They throw someone under the bus, announce a tariff, start firing missiles, whatever it might be, you know, capturing or absconding with leaders of Central American countries. But Roy Cohn and Jeffrey Epstein are very smart.
That's a... And the Epstein stuff is not going away. Let me just say it is not. It is, as I said a half a year ago, it is here to stay. Like it's the thing. To Kristi Noem's credit, she did not go to the island on her plane. So that's a good part of her. But we wish you well, Kristi. You're completely incompetent and deserve to be fired. But the fact that he kept you there that long says more about Donald Trump than it does about Kristi Noem. She is what she is, I guess.
I heard she's going to be volunteering at an all-kill dog shelter.
Oh, very funny. I mean, that's going to go to the end of her days and deservedly so. Anyway, now back to the rest of the show. Guess where I went last night?
Party for Andrew Ross Sorkin at the French Embassy, our favorite Canadian.
I know. It was by Puck, and he got the First Amendment award. He gave such a good speech. He's like...
He's a very talented guy.
He's such a nice boy. I don't know what else to say. He's a nice boy. He gave an excellent speech about the First Amendment. And he said everyone thinks he's Canadian because we say that's the case. He now is asked about Canadian... his wife too. His wife, they're very... but let's just say he's Canadian even though he's not.
Can I tell you the first time I heard his name?
My first board meeting at the New York Times. They were going around, and we have this succession strategy, and that's when I knew the CEO wasn't very good, was it was clear she was like shooting everybody that got near the CEO spot. And they went through, and we're trying to... everyone was asking about compensation and equity awards, and they mentioned this one young reporter, and everyone's like, 'Well, offer them 8%,' you know. And they mentioned, they go, 'Oh, and we have this young reporter who's really talented, Andrew Sorkin,' and everyone went, 'Pay him whatever he wants.' Everyone literally said, you know, we're trying to manage a company that we need fiscal discipline, it wasn't doing well. And his name comes up, and everyone looks around, 'Pay him whatever he wants. We can't lose that guy.'
Yeah. Well, he looks great. He got the First Amendment award. And he gave a beautiful speech. Anyway, congratulations, Andrew.
Daddy's going to a big party.
Well, you were invited, but you wouldn't be my plus one.
Oh, the Vanity Fair. I actually... the guy who's the editor's boyfriend, Sean McCree, was there, and he sat where I was going. I said, 'Well, Scott Galloway is going to be there, so he'll shoot the place.' Buckale.
You want to see someone at the bar having a good time? Yeah. I've been so nervous about what to wear. Spent most of the weekend trying to style myself.
Don't wear jeans at a tux like Ted Sarandos. I didn't think that worked.
I'm rolling up to the bar, and I'm getting up, and I'm just going to observe. I don't need to speak to anybody.
No, you need to talk to people.
You know what I do? I talk to Ted Sarandos about strategy and who he should acquire. That's the limit of my social capabilities.
Do you not do the executives there? Can I tell you two quick stories of Vanity?
I want to meet the gay hockey guys. Will they be there?
Oh, they pro... Oh, I'm sure they'll be there. Oh, I bet they are. Are you allowed to take selfies with that thing, or do they kick you out?
Well, I don't know. They used to. Yeah. I don't... No, I don't think so. I think you're not allowed to.
Let me tell you two quick stories. I went to one when it was up at this... the Sunset... not... it was in that hotel, Sunset Towers. It used to be the Sunset... and it was small, much more intimate. And one year all the tech people got... went... like all they invited all the tech people. And so I was like, I don't want to see these people. I want to see celebrities. And they kept... they're really shy at the time. And they kept bothering me like to talk to me. And I was like, I don't want to talk to you, Sergey Brin. I don't want to talk to you all, you people. And Sergey Brin wasn't able to talk to anybody, except they were wearing Google Glass. He was wearing Google Glass. And he goes, 'No one's talking to me.' And I'm like, 'Take off your Google Glass and say you're a billionaire. That's how it's going to work here.' The second time I went there, I ran into... I was talking, as you did, to Bob Iger, or I forget, Comcast head, may have been Ted Sarandos, and the guy who plays Harry Potter came up to me and said, excuse me, you know, and he said, 'I've noticed all the really important studio people are sort of...'
So like you to have a story that makes you sound powerful.
No, I did. No, let me finish the story. Shut up. So he said, 'I've noticed you're talking... they're all talking to you, and they're very interested in talking to you. Who are you?' This guy is really smart. I love him. Daniel Radcliffe. And I said, 'I'm their drug dealer.'
But I'm not.
Anyway, I have a lot of good stories from there. You'll have a good time. Talk to people. Say hello to Robert Dairo if he's there, because he...
Yeah, that's not my style. I wasn't going to go. I said no. And then someone we both know said, 'You have to go once.' So I'm going to go. But I'm literally... It's been very stressful picking out my outfit.
It's early. Remember, it's early. You go like 10.
I'm literally leaving you at South by Southwest. I'm changing on the plane, and I'm going straight to the event.
Yeah. Yeah. It goes on forever, though. Stay till late. Stay till late.
I only think I was invited because they thought I was going to be your plus one. And then you said no when I said yes.
No, I don't think so. Anyway, have a great time. You'll have a great time. We've got a lot to get to today because we also... this weekend we'll be in Minneapolis. We'll talk about that in a second. On Sunday, we're very excited to do Resist and Unsubscribe there. But let's get to the news first. Let's dig in. First, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says the war in Iran is far from over, warning that we've only just begun. It was such a ridiculous press conference. As a record, the House is set to vote on a measure to block President Trump from taking further action in Iran without congressional support. And the Senate already failed to do that. By the way, European leaders are pushing back on Trump, notably Spain's prime minister, who said, 'We can't play Russian roulette with the destiny of millions of people.' He's absolutely correct. The White House said they were cooperating, and then they said they weren't. Trump is also facing pushback from parts of his MAGA base over the war. Even as he insists MAGA loves what I'm doing, they do not love what he's doing. And looking at the economic impact, US gas prices saw their biggest single-day spike in three years this week, and oil prices continue to rise. This drag on the US economy is going to be very tough for Trump and the Republicans as we approach the midterms. I've been talking to a lot of Republicans. In fact, had a meeting with a very prominent one yesterday. And they are... I can tell you they do not like this, or they think Pete Hegseth is an imbecile. That's for sure. And they don't think this was well thought out at all. I think... and that's the Republicans, and these are people who maybe publicly are being supportive by at least voting against the restrictions on Trump. What are your thoughts about the economy? What's happening here?
It really hasn't taken much of a hit yet. It's the existential threat that it could digress into something much bigger and more dangerous. The oil is up about 11 bucks a barrel, or 10%, or 12%, which translates to about 25 cents a gallon typically. Typically wars, the markets go down, and then they check back, and actually the year after a war ends, markets typically outperform. So I don't think you can say that the markets have responded or that we know this is going to be inflationary.
What I think you can say is that I believe if he had gone to Congress and made an argument for why we're doing this, why now, and what are our objectives, he might have gotten the authorization for the use of military force. They never get declarations of war any longer. They get AUMFs. But unfortunately, what they've done is because they had to position this as a defensive action, they said, 'Oh, one of our allies was about to be imminently attacked. We were going to have to respond.' So it's like, 'Okay, you just gave into this very dangerous trope that Israel is controlling the US.' Yes. That was just... And you have had such inconsistent messaging. Absolutely. This is regime change. No, we don't want regime change. This is going to be five days. We'll be there as long as it takes. Yeah. This is a... Now the Kurds. We're bringing the Kurds in. Yeah. Now we're going to operate the Kurds. Well, okay. What does that mean when the Kurds get fired up in other regions? This is a special combat operation. No, it's a war. They have so much inconsistent messaging. And the fact that they didn't reflect the confidence to at a minimum think about the American citizens in the Gulf and a plan for getting them out of there.
That seems like it makes Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal seem like...
In addition, just tactically... Mhm. Tactically bombing Tehran, the majority... the real danger here is that the Iranian people are not on our side, turn against us. Because what the Iranian biggest miscalculation was firing... they basically... Jon Stewart summarized it as two guys start beating up on you. So what do you do? You try and start a fight with everyone in the bar. That was a real strategic mistake on the part of Iran. But our potentially biggest mistake is when we're bombing Tehran, you're essentially flattening neighborhoods of people who are probably more pro-West and empathetic. It's the kind of religious... the theocracies in the rural area. So no one really trusts. I think the why now and objectives had legitimacy here, and he potentially could have got... 77% of Republicans are, or 72% of Republicans are in favor of this. Only 17% of progressives.
It's low. 72% of Republicans is low. It's usually 95%.
The broader number is 41-59. So let's be clear. The majority of Americans do not support this. I still think had he had a well-thought-out plan, he could have gotten potentially...
I don't agree with you. I think this was interesting listening to this Republican, very high-profile politician. He was like, they have 15 days to resolve this, like because if it drags on more and they don't seem to have a point, it's a problem. And one of the things he was pointing to was unaffiliated voters. He's like, the independents, he says, across there are red lights everywhere for Republicans around independents, and independents hate this. And he said if he doesn't have a very tight, sharp plan in place... I mean, he was blunt that they didn't have one, Mike, that they didn't, and they weren't communicating them. And I'll tell you one, when he had gone to that briefing about whether there really was an imminent threat, and one of the reporters asked him, was there an imminent threat, and he said, well, there's been one for 47 years. That's what it sounded like. Like he didn't even buy their nonsensical reasons.
But you asked about the economy. So the decision to go to war, in my opinion, is not what is going to be, quote-unquote, the downfall or really hurt the Trump administration. It's the following. It appears that these types of actions, unilateral actions, where you don't make any attempt to get European or Gulf nations involved to increase legitimacy, much less the resources, right? These nations could have helped shoot down... these nations have their own military, their own intelligence. They could have served a real valuable role in helping protect those Gulf states, achieving the objectives. The fact that we now have a $1.1 trillion military that appears to be run by incompetence. In addition, America was the operating system. Everyone settles their trades in dollars. They operate on the IP agreements of America. We largely enforce the flows of energy with our navy, our military bases, make sure that rogue nations don't go too rogue. We've sort of been the operating system. Now, this decision amongst others, specifically going about it unilaterally with no attempt to even consult Congress or our allies, all of a sudden shows the nation that used to enforce that no nation go too rogue, they're now that rogue nation. Yeah. But I think the real existential threat to the economy and to American prosperity is the following. It's yet another data point that shows we used to be the cop or the protection when we hear a knock at the door. Now we are the knock at the door.
Yeah, I get it. It's really... What's interesting is how many people are secretly not for it, right? It's a really... you do see the strength of people pushing back now on Trump, which is really interesting. Much more so all over the place, not listening to him, not going along with him. Now, typically politicians go along with anybody when there's a war happening. They try not to be too difficult. But one of the things is this further abrogation of power by the Congress, you know, in terms of where they... and they're sitting around talking and debating about whether they have power or not. I don't know if you've followed any of that. It's kind of ridiculous. And they do. And one of the... it just... I think it just creates more chaos around Trump. Like he's chaotic at the same time as all his people that work for him are incompetent, that seem more and more, and especially Pete Hegseth. He seemed completely out of sorts for this. And one of the... of course there's conspiracy theories everywhere, but one of them is that if Iran hits the United States in some way, a city, a United States city, which is entirely possible, that's what he'll use as the excuse to call martial law. Just so you know, there's a lot of things happening all at the same time. And I just don't... it's not good because it's chaos and Trump. Chaos and Trump. And so I think Trump is the same thing as our domestic problems here with him. It's chaos. It's chaos and it's not thought out and it's incompetence. And you know, obviously the Republicans are worried about the midterms, and they should. The first primaries of the 2026 midterms. Here are some of the highlights from Tuesday's elections. In Texas, incumbent Senator John Cornyn and Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton are headed to a late May GOP Senate runoff. The GOP clash is already the most expensive Senate primary in history, with Republicans alone racking up nearly $100 million in ad buys. Trump is supposedly going to pick one and tell the other to get out, but Ken Paxton has already said he's not getting out even if he doesn't get picked. And state representative James Talarico beat Representative Jasmine Crockett in Texas's Democratic Senate primary. Let's listen to a clip from Talarico's victory speech. 'To the billionaires who have taken over our state and taken over our country, your unchecked power is coming to an end. Your days dividing working people are numbered.' Oh, he sounds like a guy we should hang out with. Good, good, good. It was a good speech. And actually, I have to say Crockett handled the defeat well. They seemed to come together. Everyone's like, 'We're all going to come together.' And they both ran really tough campaigns. And then they... I have to say everybody acted... the Democrats look like they're not in disarray, as they say. Texas Supreme Court stepped in to block a last-minute voting extension in two counties after GOP primary polling mixups, backing an appeal from Ken Paxton. It seemed like he was just trying to create chaos. In North Carolina, former Governor Roy Cooper won the Democratic Senate primary quite easily and will face Republican Michael Wattley for Senator Thom Tillis' seat in a race that could help decide Senate control. So interesting stuff going on there. A lot of people lost their jobs. Dan Crenshaw lost his job. He was targeted by a billionaire, speaking of billionaires, who spent enormous amounts of money to get rid of him. In North Carolina, the head of the state senate who'd been in power for a long, long time is in a very tight race. A lot of people losing their jobs like all over the place. So what do you think this means for Democrats this year and for Republicans?
It's very exciting for Democrats. I mean, the Talarico race. First off, if Talarico wins the seat against the Republican nominee, I think he's likely or very likely to be the vice presidential pick in 2028 because if he wins this and shows an ability to win in Texas, if as VP they think he could deliver Texas, it's game over for whoever's... for the Democrats win. If you could flip Texas in a presidential race, do...
You think he should stay there for a little bit? Get, amass power.
Well, how long did... how long was Obama senator?
I mean, they do. The VP is supposed to be the person who could take over. It's not... The VP is brought on to hopefully win a state that is a swing state for the most part. Anyways, so it's an exciting moment for Talarico, but what's really exciting for Democrats is that through the odds, the majority or the number of Democrats turning out in a primary was in the high hundreds of thousands, 700 or 800,000.
2.1 million Democrats turned out. And the other very exciting thing is that...
I think it was 1.8 million Republicans turned out. So whoever, whatever party is able to turn out more people for the primary gives you real insight into what's going to happen in the general.
Especially among Hispanics, he really pulled in that... he shifted them.
And if we have the first Texas statewide Democrat elected in 20 or 30 years...
Yes. Who was the last one?
Lloyd Bentsen was the last one, I think.
I thought it was Ann Richards.
She was governor. There you go. So this is an exciting... this is just a super exciting moment for Democrats. So I don't... you know, I don't think you can overstate it. All the races look to have been closer. The surprising stuff was some of the Republicans who lost their seats. That was very interesting.
I was thinking of sending some money to Paxton because I'd love to see him against Talarico because I think that means Talarico wins.
