What's going on here is contrary to the very reason America was founded. The reason we started this experiment was we didn't want to be abused by a monarch.
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher and I just scooped out my litter and Scott is in Swanky, Switzerland. This is the state of our relationship. I was with your first wife just a few minutes ago.
I heard she's swanning around there. How's it going?
Yeah, she's uh one of my favorite things is this thing called She Knows and they invite me because they know dudes will show up and they like to have dudes at their stuff.
That's just what women want. But go ahead.
Well, I think it is actually. I think they want to reach across the aisle, so to speak.
Or I think they want to do a reach around. Oh god, my mind is a blank now.
Yeah. Yeah, that's where I am.
And by the way, you look fantastic. Let me just say,
you know, unfortunately, Kara, my iPhone, when I opened it still, the Apple Face ID still works. So, and everyone said, and everyone's saying, you just look like you. And I'm like, well, that wasn't the point.
I can see the difference.
Yeah, I'm here. I don't know if you can see this equivalent. If Days Inn had a branch in Davos, I'd be here. But it's only $2,700 a night. And if Trump gives another speech, the dollar is going to crash and it's going to be $6,000 a night. So, I should probably go check in now like it's Weimar Germany or check out.
Oh, could Well, before we start, I think you would hate it here. I can't even
I hate I do hate it here. Last time I was there, I was there with Megan when I was married to her. And like you, she got one of those weird global leaders of tomorrow's yesterday, whatever the yawn or young entrepreneurs, and this was a million years ago and I went as a wife and I hated every second of it and I'm sure it's worse now.
You know what it is? It's the least sexy place in it's the least sexy gathering in the world. It's like got the sex appeal of like a Marriott lobby. It's just it's rough here.
Give me an overview. Besides, let me just make a point. It's been 34 days since the deadline passed for the US Justice Department to release the Epstein files. I just want to note that just just just to add that in. But go ahead, tell me what's what's the vibe in in the place where they pretend things are normal.
Okay, so first off, the last time I was here was 1999. I was here 26 years ago. I don't know if you know this about me, but I peaked early.
Similar time frame for me, but
yeah, I was there 26 years ago. And the vibe then was um it was about the internet. America was about cooperation and consumerism and sort of there was some there was really optimism like I want more. It was very consumey if you will. And now I'd say the vibe is one AI. Everything's AI. I was one of these guys running around trying to pitch my startup Red Envelope or my e-commerce incubator to everybody. Now everyone's pitching everyone on AI startups. And the American brand, which is meant to be the operating system here, I think, is really about coercion and chaos right now. And the vibe
and arrogance. Arrogance is what I'm
It's even beyond arrogance. It's it's just being rude for no real reason. Like, and Howard Lutnick was a particular on that topic. Yeah.
Yeah. And Christine Lagarde, she walked out on him. That was kind of the big the big event here. But there is also the vibe here is very unsettled because for all the talk about Europe being a union is clearly still not a union. In my opinion the strongest move would have been if they had somebody had actually read Mark Carney's speech and said he just articulated how we all feel more powerfully than anyone in the European Union has done. We want him to give that speech. We want him to outline a series of things that we could do as a union of all Western nations, selling US treasuries, forming a trading zone outside of the US, and they should had all 27 EU member leaders sitting behind Mark Carney. Instead, they just look like, oh, the number six, you know, the world's six, 11th, 28th, and the seven dwarves economy are angry at us. They clearly don't care.
All right. Okay. All right. This is like you attacking the Dems. Tell explain what the rep what what the Trump administration is doing there cuz let's talk about the bullies not the bullied uh for a second. What what is the vibe from a Lutnick uh Bessent looks like the the the man from Great Pup? Like he's he's excited to find Greg Pupon everywhere he goes. Never seen such a crash in reputation of that guy. But talk a little bit about that the the the arrogance because it's just you can you see it bristling off of tech people. Uh, the Palantir CEO once again needs to stop talking quite so much. Uh, the only one that was interesting was Dario Amodei who is still trying to piss off David Sacks which I enjoy every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But what's the vibe from the US? It seemed absolutely you. Like we're we're we're the man even though and I'm popular. Trump was saying even though the his polls are crashing here in the United States.
Yeah, I was at a dinner spoke last night. Um the I don't know the the way I the way I would describe the vibe is I don't even think it's the business leaders I still think are really well respected. People are still like hey Anthropic can you open a branch in Helsinki and let's talk about Poland's economy. So there's still I think a real I don't know if the terms affection but appreciation because the bottom line is the American economy continues to grind on and one of the masters of the university I went to one of his dire house one of the the masters in the university finance stood up and said look distinct of our political situation and he talked about anthropic anthropic raising 10 or 50 billion at 300 there's like seven companies in Europe worth $350 billion or more and anthropics started 5 years ago
it's actually gaining a lot of ground in enterprise too. But go ahead.
Yeah, it is. And it's it's it's kind of the success story maybe outside of Gemini and AI, I would argue over the last 12 months. So I feel like there's still a great deal of affection and want to work together. I wouldn't argue I would say that from the administration standpoint, their presence here isn't I think arrogant the wrong word. I like the definition of stupid. You help others and hurt yourself, you're an artist or philanthropist. You help yourself while hurting others, you're a bandit. You help others while helping yourself, you're intelligent. The definition of stupid is hurting others while you hurt yourself.
The the talking about how important it is for the US to own Iceland when you mean Greenland.
You just look stupid. You just And it's not going to happen. The big news to be fair, he walked back military action. He said that's not going to happen. He did away with the tariffs he threatened earlier in the week. So, we come across, we just come across as just we're we're we're a baby with an AR-15 is how we come across right now.
So, is it worth it for you to be there? Do you you look like you wanted to get out and I needed to helicopter in and get you, but uh was it worth it? Is it worth it?
Well, so I'm name dropping. I said no. And then Larry Fink called me and asked me to come and said, you know, was very nice to me and said, "This will be a good audience for you." And I got to give it to him. This is quote unquote according to people who've been here for 30 years the best office yet in terms of the quality or the power I would say of the people. You know Elon Musk felt left out. He's flying in this afternoon to give a speech. Heads of state senators the thing that sort of embodied how powerful the people are. I literally saw Lindsey Graham walking around looking for someone to talk to. Like he looked lonely and he was trying to find someone to talk to him.
Yeah. He's such a pathetic chud.
He's a chud not a chad. And by the way, you wanna you want to hear serious vibe, serious juju, serious mojo, serious RZ, Governor Newsom is walking around like he is the next president. And guess what? Everyone believes him. He has an entourage of He has so I'm not exaggerating. It's like there's light shining on the guy. He was I
He really had So I walked down I walked down I had one of those This was a nice moment for me. I have I have a big ego like everyone else. I walked down into the Congress hall and there was a crowd of people around this guy and no matter how big the crowd is, you see him like he's Rihanna standing on Arnold Schwarzenegger's shoulders.
He just it's like and it's like God. It's like he's the chosen one.
Yeah. Yeah. And then he stops and comes over, catches my eye and he hugs me.
I feel like one time this guy, the coolest guy in my junior high school, Andy Lowour, who I didn't even think know was alive. I didn't even I didn't even know I was alive. I did a comedy sketch at the talent show on Laurel and Hardy and he came up in a class and he's like, "Go, you're the funniest." And he high-fived me and for a day I was the most important person I'd ever known.
This is I was It was like the cool kid. The cool kid high fives you
Anyways, came over, hugged me, and I tell you, he texted me that he saw me.
I'm just texting with everybody. I was like haranguing Mark Benioff. I was texting. texting everybody there.
You're literally stalking me. I sit down at dinner last night and the woman next to me goes, "Kara's talking to me. She knows we're sitting together." I'm like, "How the does she know we're sitting together? You're like the Stasi with Wi-Fi."
They will text me. They're like, "Where are you?" I'm like, as if I'm I'm making quesadillas for my children and scooping.
The highlight I'm totally I'm totally name dropping right now.
I was I got to sit next to Sacha Baron Cohen and I rolled with him after and he and I went bar hopping after.
And he was he was picking up a friend and Katy Perry and Justin Trudeau. By the way, Justin Trudeau's skin there's no way that guy was stressed in office. He looks like he's he's a world leader and now he looks like you're happy. You're swaning. Oh my god.
Anyways, I'm totally swanning swaning. Let's go. Let's talk about
Hold up. But Sacha goes I go I'm going to this wine tasting thing, master the universe thing. You should come. And he goes, "Can I come in five minutes?" He goes, "Will you leave my will you leave my name at the door?" And I'm like, "Sacha, something tells me they're going to let you in."
Anyways, that's my that's my big celebrity thing.
Well, he's great. He's a great guy.
Super thoughtful. He understands AI.
I though you don't invest in our relationship. I did one of my favorite interviews with him.
He said he was on with you.
Yeah. He's great. He's so smart. He's so smart.
Middle class Jewish kid from the suburbs of London. And really fearless, too. I like him a lot. and a lot of his stuff if you look at it now even if it's a satire especially around the dictator uh is spot on like some of some of the stuff he wrote.
Um so just so people know couple of things from their headlines. Donald Trump's backing off his threat to impose tariffs on Europe saying there's now a framework for Greenland deal. He there isn't a framework for Greenland after meeting with NATO's secretary general. Trump said the solution quote if consummated would be great for the US and all NATO nations. It's probably more US bases. The idiot. he could have done it before. Uh that announcements came just hours after Trump delivered his big speech at Davos where he seemed to be gripping the podium as if it to save his life where he repeated his desire to acquire Greenland or Iceland as you said as he referred to it. The speech did not go over very well. He insulted and threatened our NATO allies. Uh even though the White House was saying was great. I think most people did not think so. But let's listen very quickly to give him a moment. So, we want a piece of ice for world protection and they won't give it. We've never asked for anything else and we could have kept that piece of land and we didn't. So, they have a choice. You can say yes and we will be very appreciative or you can say no and we will remember.
It's reminds me of my four-year-old Saul when he didn't
like a mob boss, isn't it?
I know. I know. But it sounds like a toddler actually when Saul didn't get the Hot Wheels he wanted.
Trump also wasn't thrilled with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney said who gave a quote speech at Davos Tuesday talking about the rupture in the world order. This was a speech to remember. It was so beautifully delivered. This guy is really top level in terms of delivering a speech. Let's listen to what he said. We have a recognition of what's happening and a determination to act accordingly. We understand that this rupture calls for more than adaptation. It calls for honesty about the world as it is. We are taking the sign out of the window. We know the old order is not coming back. We shouldn't mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy. But we believe that from the fracture we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just. This is the task of the middle powers. the countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and a most to gain from genuine cooperation. Smart, not pearl clutching, not victiming. Carney warned that the middle powers, it sounds like the middle kingdom must act together because quote, "If we're not at the table, we're on the menu." He's absolutely right. Uh contrast um the the two the two speeches. And by the way, Trump sent the world markets on a roller coaster the last few days as global stocks plunged early this week following Trump threatening to slap tariffs on Europe, which he didn't, and the markets rallied once he pulled back. So talk a little bit about these two speeches and the impacts on the markets.
You summarize it. Carney gave the speech at the conference and supposedly he wrote it himself. I mean, there's so many great lines in there. Nostalgia is not a strategy. This isn't a transformation. It's a rupture. And one of the call signs I think for great leadership is forceful yet dignified. And he was all of that. And of course he he tweaked Trump and Trump mentioned his speech. Trump just, you know, he um he just came across as uh rambling and offensive for no reason. And the general vibe here is that the Europeans, not with Americans, I still think they want to work with American companies. But with with the American administration, they're just sort of fed up. They're just like, "Okay, we're just sort of done with these guys." And Howard Lutnick, I don't know if you heard this, Howard Lutnick was heckled at a dinner, by the way.
These aren't protesters with blue hair holding signs. These are these are state leaders who went to Swiss boarding schools and to you know Dalton and and eat with the right fork and they just listen to this guy talk about how globalization has not worked and we've been taken advantage of. It's like okay boss we sell in the highest margin products in the world to these trading partners. They sell in lower margin products. We have grown our economy faster than any economy in the world with maybe exception of China over the last 20 or 30 years. Come again. Why has globalization been bad for us? He just comes across as an ass.
He's a He's a, you know, he never was a highlevel person on Wall Street like a Bessent. Bessent wasn't the highest level, but he certainly was up there. But they both come off like morons. Just morons. And that's the word I think of every time he opens his mouth. And you know, he's such a thirsty That's really the way it goes. Anyway, so are when are you coming back? How long how long are you going?
I was supposed to come home tomorrow. I'm going to come out tonight. I'm going to peace out. Davos feels like Vegas for me in the sense that it was great for two days and now I just can't wait to get get out of here.
Yeah, you look like that at the beginning. I like your videos, though. They're nice. They're lovely.
Yeah. I just, you know, I'm not raising money. I'm not running for office. It's like, why am I here?
Why am I here? Why are you there? Why aren't you here?
Well, you know why? Cuz Larry Fink called me and said, I want you to come. So, you come. And I I mean, I met with the president of NYU today, the chancellor of Berkeley. I have a lot of friends here.
Yeah. you get to see people,
you know, it's nice, but I'd rather be at home doing podcasts and hanging out with my boys and I'm I'm finally getting to the point where it's like, okay, what where am I? I'm I'm really trying to be more purposeful.
It's good that you went so you understand that this is like going to the island of of, you know, donkeys that Pinocchio went to. Now, you know, now you know.
That's not the island I thought you were going to reference, but I'll I'll I'll stick with And by the way, again, it's been a month since they were supposed to release the Epstein files, and we're going to keep a ticker on that one cuz they're violating the law.
What is your perception of it as an outsider? Sometimes it's hard to read the label from inside of the bottle.
Honestly, there's all kind all manner of nonsense going on in um and and really violent nonsense, most perpetrated by largely the government. Um going into houses whenever they feel like it. There was one photo that I actually was with my mom last night and I put on CNN cuz I happen to be on CNN talking about Darius.
Uh, yes. The guy, not the bathrobe. No. No. Yes, that too. But there was like 10 ICE officers in front of a small house. Looked like a very lovely house. There was no criminals inside. Each of them with an AK-47 like mushed up near the front of the door. And my mom was like, "What are they doing?" And I was like, "Oh, there's there's one illegal possible illegal immigrant in there." And she goes, "Why do they need 10 guns?" I'm like, "That's an excellent question, Lucky." So, I I think, you know, I think that's you're seeing a lot of visuals like that. A lot of gas being put out. And then that tiny Bo, the guy who's running it there, who is uh there was the best um uh thread of all time, I think, where it said um you know, he looks like they look like they drive a Subaru. And so he's just he's just a cheap he looks like a ridiculous tiny little man.
Anyway, okay Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the revelation that shocker, Doge misused social security data.
Support for the show comes from ShipStation. Growth is good, but it also brings new business challenges. For example, it can get tougher and tougher to fulfill orders. That is unless you have ShipStation by your side. ShipStation's intelligence-driven platforms brings everything you need to get orders to customers in one place. That includes order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics. And that means that instead of five to seven disconnected tools, you've got one. ShipStation says they can save customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment. And they also do the leg work of comparing rates across all major global carriers, finding you the best shipping options on every order. If you already have negotiated carrier rates, just bring them over. So you can keep your discounts while adding ShipStation's automation and intelligent features to make things even smoother. 1 million businesses have trusted ShipStation. You can join them and try ShipStation for free for 60 days with full access to all features. No credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use code pivot for 60 days for free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com code pivot. shipstation.com code pivot.
Support for this show comes from Vanta. Customer trust can make or break your business. And the more your business grows, the more complex your security and compliance tools get. It can turn into chaos. And chaos isn't a security strategy. That's where Vanta comes in. Think of Vanta as your always AI powered security expert who scales with you. Vanta automates compliance, continuously monitors your controls, and gives you a single source of truth for compliance and risk. So whether you're a fast growing startup like Curser or an enterprise like Snowflake, Vanta fits easily into your existing workflows so you can keep growing a company your customers can trust. Get started at vanta.com/pivot. That's venta.com/pivot. vanta.com/pivot.
Scott, we're back with more news. Doge employees shared social security data according to court filings. The filings show that political advocacy group contacted members of the Doge social uh security team asking for an analysis of state voter roles. One of the employees signed an agreement with the group who aimed to quote find evidence of voter fraud and overturn election results in certain states. No accountability. This is something we talked about on Pivot saying this is probably exactly what's happening. It's very dangerous this data is being shared. Who knows what else? And I think at some point we will find out exactly what was uh what was was taken and misused. And speaking of Doge, uh Elon has dropped $10 million in support of a proTrump Republican Kentucky Senate candidate Nate Morris who is running to succeed retiring old person Mitch McConnell. Um you know, he's tried to do this. He tried to do it in Wisconsin. Um so I I don't know what you think about the Doge thing. I think it's just of course this is what they did and hopefully they will be prosecuted. in terms of Doge like you called this. You don't give your I'm I'm much more promiscuous with my data than you and you said I would never give them my data but unfortunately the social security agency you you have to give them your data. I mean the government the government knows your HIV status.
You know the government knows how much money you have, what you do with your money, who you send it to. You know they have kind of access to pretty much everything.
Unique data that they need for these LLMs. By the way,
I don't I actually believe in the government's right to collect data. What I But I think you have to match that with really stringent laws that if you're going to violate that privacy, it has to be under threat of like domestic, you know, of terrorism or something.
Well, they have no accountability here.
Well, yeah, nothing's going to happen, right? So,
I don't think so. I don't believe that. I think we're going to there's going to have forensics on this later and we're going to understand exactly what they did here. And I I do know of tech people taking account of what happened in cryptocurrency, what's happening here, and at some point there will be a reckoning.
But do you think people will be punished for this?
I don't know. I I don't think Elon Musk will necessarily be unless there's, you know, signs of, you know, take the take the stuff and run, I suppose. I mean, but he's just barreling on. Even though Tesla sales or Cyber Truck sales, what they sold 20,000 last year, they're supposed to sell 250,000. Um, I can't believe they sold 20,000, but you know, he keeps rolling on. I think he'll keep rolling on as he because he can collect money for Grok or he'll keep doing I just did a show today on CSAM, which is uh child u essentially child pornography and he'll just keep rolling on even though it's shameful what's happening. The other thing Netflix has officially updated its Warner Brothers offer to an allcash deal replacing the original cash and stock structure. The latest agreement reduces the amount of debt uh put on Warner's spin-off Discovery Global by $260 million. The two companies say the new structure should allow Warner shareholders to vote on the deal by April. Um ALS, but at the same time, Netflix narrowly beat Wall Street expectations in its latest earnings. The company posted $2.4 billion in fourth quarter profit, up 29% over the year, but the growth is slowing. Revenue is projected to grow only about 13% this year compared to 16% last year. It's still working well. Netflix shares hit a 52- week low during the trading this week, which is why they went to all stock. Uh, I think it's just a matter of price with this Warner Brothers deal. It looks like Netflix has the inside edge at this moment. Um, but I'm not I don't know any thoughts.
Well, they continue. The expectations are so huge even though they revenue and earnings topped estimates up 18 and 31% year-on-year, respectively. Uh, the stocks been down and they're at a third of a billion paid global subscribers. Uh there are a few takeaways from the year. The content spend ratio um is almost less than it's ever been, which is good for shareholders.
Well, in 2015, Netflix spent 85 cents per $1 of revenue. Right now, they're spending 38 cents, a 55% decrease, which says, "All right, we're going to dominate the market. We're going to take advantage of our cheap capital, overspend on content no one can keep up with us. then we're going to aggregate an unprecedented number of paid subscribers and we're going to let revenue continue to grow and hold our spending flat. It's a great strategy. Some people would argue it's predatory pricing. Uh the advertising business um still not a big business. I've always been against it. This year accounted for 3% of Netflix total revenue despite the fact that advertising revenues are up two and a half fold from 2024. I think it's bad for the brand but it's probably very high margin. And in terms of watch time, as a as a share of television watch time, Netflix is sitting at 9% while YouTube is at 12.7. A combined Netflix Warner Brothers entity would garner or register about uh 10.4% of all watch time.
Yeah. It's much more p like all watch time is not created equal, right? Cuz just like HBO watch time is very impactful and cultural. It just, you know, watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians, no one's going to be at the Academy Awards from that anyways, but they're those two, they're kind of Gangas and Kong and then the Seven Dwarves. They're so at if they're number two at 10.4 would be the number three Disney Plus is at just 4.7.
So, and I've said this, I like Ted Sarandos a lot. I'm not a huge fan. I don't know. I'm sort of neutral on the Ellison. I don't know him. I'm a huge fan of Ted Sarandos. I would rather see Paramount own this for any other reason than I think we just need more bulking up of competitors.
That's what a lot of people think. Yeah, they I just think they're terrible owners.
Yeah. You just don't I I can understand that viewpoint. You trust Ted more than you trust the Ellison's. I get that.
I just Here's what I think. You know, a lot of people are making a lot of noise in Hollywood about like, oh, he's against theaters and Dave will save it. Dave is not capable of saving it. for one the the theatrical experience and con to me I'm a consumer person consumers if they wanted to go to the theater they'd go to the theater and they don't they go to the theater when they want to and the theater experience is declined because of theaters not because of consumers and not because of Ted Sarandos so blaming him for that is just he's just doing is he's just following the trends and consumers have spoken and I'm I'm a consumer person in the end of the day and if they put out like the Oscar nominations just came out today yay golden uh Uh but um but I just like people if they wanted to go to the theaters they go to the theaters and you no no Rich Ellison person is going to save it. Uh I don't care how many you know James Camerons or Gris Nolan scream about it. If if you make movies that people want to see in theaters they will. That's it. And so I'm not going to put that on him. I'm just not I just it's his business to do what is best for his business. And so that's just my
Well, Carney summarized it and it's it's appropo here. Nostalgia is not a strategy,
