How long gone? Good to hear from you. It's Chris Black. Jason, what's going on?
Hello. It is me, Them Jeans. What's up?
What's up, bro? Just getting my cables correct. You know what I'm saying?
I'm just on the grind. And it's another day in New York City. Just getting ready to head out to Mexico tomorrow. I saw some pictures of Brooks Nader and her sister on the beach in Mexico. And I wonder if the crowd at the Wilco Sky Blue Sky Festival is going to look in any way similar to Brooks Nader and her sister sort of playing on the beach in Cancun.
Let's see here. Let's um I think I have the photo pulled up. It's funny because Brooks Nader really just sounds like a 56-year-old country music musician, you know, just like a guy from Kentucky.
No, it does. I know. I mean, I agree.
Or like a young new quarterback coming out of Oklahoma.
Oh, Brooks Nader. I mean, the rushing yards alone. I mean, this guy's crazy.
And not a woman that appears to be designed by Grok.
I mean, if that's what Grok's doing, I'm going to start using it.
Brooks Nader, Las Ventanas Aliso. The caption: 'Old lips, new clothes, same me.' What does old lips mean?
Well, she dissolved all of her filler to make her dad happy.
Love that you know this. Love that you know this.
So I just wanted, I mean, it's something you could think. I know your mom's sort of been on you about that.
She said, 'I want my baby back.'
Who, I don't, I look at you. I don't know who you are.
I can barely recognize them big titties from across the beach. So she, yeah, she's getting the filler removed, which caused...
I was talking about because everybody's talking about Emma Stone's new face. Emma Stone has a new face. She looks amazing.
It made me forget her Golden Globes look.
All women are talking about it, chattering about it. And there's, you know, there's that guy on Reels or TikTok or whatever that sort of like breaks down all, you know, and of course...
We of course pulled that up at my household as soon as Emma made her debut. And it's like it's a lot of stuff, but I think it's just of the highest quality.
It's a top-down fundamental restructure reorg.
But she doesn't look not herself to me. She just looks like the best version of herself, you know, which is...
I'm going to push back on that, playa, because I think that she crossed a little bit into the danger zone, the uncanny valley, where because I've seen people and they're posting photos of like everyone is starting to look like the same person. So she has become 50% the same person, the ideal facial looks-maxing program based on whatever criteria that was designed by Persian guys in Beverly Hills, and then 50% Emma Stone, the God-created, mother-birthed face.
Well, let me tell you something, Jason. What do you want to be? Do you want to be looks-maxing, clay-looking, 50% and 50% real TJ, or are you good being 100% real TJ?
100% real TJ always and forever. I look, I'm with you, but I think that as a woman in Hollywood, the pressures are immense, especially when the budget is no issue. You know what I mean? When you can spend literally $1 million to get everything at the highest degree.
To me, this is a waste. It's a waste of a face. Emma Stone has been a very successful actress. She then redid her entire face. She does look good. I'm not going to argue with that. But her acting career seems to, she's still busy, but her success and I feel like her stock and her day rate has sort of gone down into like the world. You know, she's doing these Yorgos flicks that make $7 million and nobody sees them. And you know who people watch Bonjour Tristesse more because Stavros is in it. You know...
I wouldn't go that far, but...
She's not like doing anything.
That's, you're absolutely wrong. She's doing...
Check the sound scan. You want to do...
No, but that's not the point. That's not the point. Once you win an Oscar...
The point is what? To get the Bulgari airport ad that makes you more money than any movie. So, yes.
I know, but I'm saying she doesn't need any more money. I mean, I guess that's why she's doing these Yorgos.
Everybody needs more. This is what people say this all the time. Everybody needs more money. What are you talking about? Everybody needs more money. I hate this argument. No matter who you are, no matter how much money you have, no matter how much money you give to charity, you still want more.
Oh, well, you just change it from need to want. You can't do that, you little shy... I think it's all, I just don't think this whole thing...
They don't need any more money doesn't mean you're not going to make any more money when it's handed to you though. You know what I mean? It's not like she's...
Yeah, but I'm saying the money is being handed to her. So why are you going and putting the car up on bricks and getting under the hood and redoing the whole thing when the car, when everything was running fine?
What you're forgetting is...
Am I forgetting Father Time and his aging?
As usual? Well, as usual, you're discounting the patriarchy and the pressures put on women to look young, no matter how old.
I like to think that Emma operates outside of those laws and rules. I don't think she's...
No one operates outside. These things exist because no one, no matter how much money you have, the insecurities still lurk because that stuff sort of, I think that stuff sort of baked in at a certain age. And no matter what, you feel good some days, you feel less good the other days. But when you have to look at yourself, I mean, look what Zoom's done to people. Imagine that being, imagine your face being on billboards and movie screens and television screens for your entire life. I just wonder if you get, you know, 12 different things done to your face and you look at one of your contemporaries who didn't, do you think to yourself...
Well, that's the thing. That's the question. Who doesn't have a contemporary?
I feel like Jennifer Lawrence seems to sort of look...
No, no, no, no, no, no. You are wrong, sir. Jennifer Lawrence has definitely... I mean, I think it's...
Well, I mean, of course, everyone's had a little work done, but there's, everyone is like, no one has said Jennifer Lawrence has an entire new face.
Well, that's, no one's ever said that.
There's like dissertations written about how much work Emma Stone has had done.
But that's just because I think...
And she was a one-of-a-kind, unique face.
I don't, yeah. I mean, do you want to be one-of-a-kind, unique or bad as hell?
Jennifer Lawrence openly addresses her plastic surgery rumors, admitting to using Botox but has never used fillers.
Well, that's, yeah, but this is what all these people do. It's like Kendall Jenner saying she's never done anything. It's just you can just lie. Like what is the proof? Like what is the... I think the proof is also like...
But you could tell the uncanny valley. You could tell.
You can't tell. You definitely can't. And I don't think I can either. [laughter] I'm trying to tell you that these chicks are playing at a level that is incomprehensible to the male gaze. Unless you're a medical doctor. That's all I'm saying. But I think that obviously, I like that you just do whatever you want. I think the speculation around it is like pretty crazy.
But there's no question. Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at this side by side. There's no question that Jennifer Lawrence, they've all done something. I think that's...
The only difference between these photos is 20 years and eyeshadow. And I did not mean to sound so gay when I said that.
As the G. [laughter] I was about to say, I texted you earlier because there was a, because Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are promoting some new movie where they're in it together, you know, and there was an Andy Cohen, you know, is sort of like looking for a Brokeback Mountain type storyline for these two. And Matt Damon reveals to Andy that he and Ben almost adapted The Dreyfus Affair, which is a book about two baseball players who fell in love, but the script just wasn't good enough. My question to you is, now that this script has been mentioned again in the press, do you think we've got some agents over at CAA or William Morris trying to package this thing up and get Austin Butler and Jacob Elordi to kiss? Like, do you think this idea still has legs? And who are the young hotties that should sort of fill in for Matt and Ben as they cross over into, you know, sort of the last half of their life?
I mean, well, to me, it just, it's the timing of this resurfacing while the biggest thing in culture is two guys playing sports who, what if they kissed?
Well, that's why this came up. I mean, that's why this came up.
Yeah. Yeah. Matt is eating Canadian nachos. He's eating Heated Rivalries poutine trying to get some scraps for The Dreyfus Affair. But, I mean, it'll definitely work. It doesn't matter who. I mean, this is like, this is the tree that keeps on giving.
I mean, for like we were talking about on literally the last episode 24 hours ago or whatever it was, like what is Heated Rivalries about? It doesn't matter. What is this baseball movie about? We find the two hottest young male actors doing manly stuff that's super straight and then what if they kissed and then that is it.
It's apple pie and vanilla ice cream. It's never going to stop. Do you think though in a post-Heated Rivalries world that we could do it with nobodies the way that Heated Rivalries was, or do you think now we might need a little somebody?
I mean, Challengers, they weren't nobodies, but they weren't A-listers at the time, right?
They were still, they were still a little relatively, you know...
But Zendaya is in it. You know what I'm saying? There's other reasons to...
Yeah. I mean, I agree with you, but I wonder. I mean, I think that like baseball is strangely the least gay sport that I can think of, actually. Like as far as like physical touch, you know what I mean? Like football is extremely homoerotic. Hockey, I didn't think it was.
There's not a lot of 'what if a big strong man pinned me down' when you're in...
There's no Jeremy Allen White in a singlet wrestling. This is just straight up like guys that are 20 pounds overweight now like swinging a bat.
You know? Maybe is golf the straightest sport followed by baseball?
Yeah, you're probably right because there's zero contact in golf. It's just you and the balls.
Just you and the balls. Exactly.
But that does change the equation. Changes the equation just a little bit. Just a...
Just a bit outside. Yeah. I was happy. Yeah, I like that Matt Damon and I think when they do press together, it reminds you how likable they both are because I think Ben Affleck is a very, very smart, talented guy that gets a lot of flack for his personal life. And I think when they get together, it's actually quite funny and entertaining no matter what they're promoting, you know, which I think is good for us all since we're used to these brain-dead celebrity interviews where nobody says anything or has any fun.
Yeah. Can you wait? Hold on one second, Chris. Sorry. Sorry about that. I was just sitting in the mother toilet. Um, [sighs] where were we?
We were talking about Affleck and...
Affleck and Matt Damon being so charming that you forget that like actor.
Oh, wow. Oh, [snorts] wow. Okay. Oh, this... Damn. Okay. Okay. Well, looks like...
Speaking of shooting in the mother toilet, our guest is here 3 minutes early. [gasps]
We'll see you in Mexico if you're going.
And can't wait to see Jason on the beach frolicking. But we do have a guest today.
Thanks for all the people who reached out and said they're going to smuggle gummies over the Mexican border for me.
I don't think that's that dangerous. Joe Weisenthal is here with us today. He is a longtime executive editor at Bloomberg News, but he also does the very popular Odd Lots podcast.
That talks about stuff that is far, far above Jason and I's pay grade. They talked about a racist restaurant in Washington, D.C. That's right up our alley.
Oh, hold on. Okay, so we do have something to talk about because if I was...
I was just going to ask for stock tips and see if I should buy gold or not, but we've got...
All right, so let's give Joe a buzz. I'm sure he's in a professional studio with a real microphone.
He is. [laughter] He's very well lit.
Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone.
And I'm thrilled to be here. I just want to say that this is the, Jason and I'm sure you'll agree, this is the best we've ever had as far as professionals. This guy's wearing a blazer. He's in a fully lit studio. He has a microphone. It looks like he has an IBM laptop and that's how serious this is.
It is. It's a Lenovo. Yeah. No, this is serious business. I didn't used to wear blazers, but it's Men's New York City. And I think that's a message we all got to start dressing up a little bit more. I think that's the message I take.
Even on audio-based podcasts because you can...
Even on an audio-based podcast.
I was just looking at a tweet about Mamdani's wife being the first person to ever make anti-police cartoons with a 24-hour police detail trailing her everywhere she goes, which I thought was a fun, that was a fun little...
What are your thoughts on that dichotomy, Joe? Just to get things started.
What a world we, interesting times we live in. Great for the content business.
It is great for the content business. It is great for the content business. But can you explain to me, I would like to, and I don't know if you're an expert on the rise of Lenovo, but it does seem like the Lenovo machine has sort of replaced the IBM ThinkPad as sort of like the working man's laptop. Do you have any insight on that?
Well, I don't think that, I mean, I think what happened was this is a Lenovo ThinkPad. I think Lenovo bought IBM's hardware business. I'm sorry. That's what happened. So it has the red button in the middle.
Thank, I was looking for the kill switch.
You got the IBM [__] baby.
IBM [__]. We all know it as that. [laughter]
In the middle of the keyboard.
Okay. So are you using an IBM Windows-based machine because of a contractual obligation?
No. No. I have no sponsorship with Lenovo, but in my...
That's not a joke question. It's if the likelihood of that being real is over 50%.
If Lenovo wants to reach out and have me be an influencer, maybe that conversation could happen. But the Bloomberg terminal through which I do all my work works best on a PC and the best PCs are, in my opinion, the best are ThinkPads or at least the best laptops are as such. That is why...
Can you do us a favor and, because I didn't know what the Bloomberg terminal was until I moved to New York and started, you know, being told to hate finance guys, but I think a lot of our listeners, especially in flyover states, have never experienced a terminal of that magnitude.
Thanks to HBO's Industry, we all know what it is now, of course, but not everyone has that network.
Explain to me what the Bloomberg terminal is, how much they cost, you know, what the ins and outs are of using one of those on a daily basis. Why can't an Apple machine power it? I'd love to hear, Joe.
Okay, let me take these a few at a time. I don't know exactly why it is more optimized for PCs except that, you know, historically speaking, Wall Street and finance has used PCs and that's the default. And so therefore...
Because they think Apple's gay. I get it. [clears throat] Because I mean, I can design a CGI, you know, Fast and Furious trailer with my MacBook Pro, but I can't do, you know, Apple stock is down 3%.
Apple is for creatives. Although there's plenty of creative people in finance. But then, so what is the Bloomberg terminal, which is, you know, it's the greatest piece of software in the world. In my opinion, it's how I work. And it is essentially this piece of software that exists on your computer that has, I would say, essentially two main functions, which is one is incredible access to financial data of all sorts, including various charting and analytical functions.
Silver's up, gold is down.
Silver's up, silver's up, gold, yeah, exactly like that. Or, you know, some bond that trades in Vietnam or whatever that you can track that very easily too. And then there's a bunch of analytical tools on that, but charting, but also other more, you know, the statistical properties of various market moves. And then the other big thing, which is very cool, is that there is basically a social network that exists on Bloomberg, which is you can IB, it has its own chat function. It's called IB, Instant Bloomberg, and anyone who has a Bloomberg terminal can chat with anyone else who has one. And this is so, this is how people in Washington, D.C. cheat on their wives. They use that, slide in through the Bloommy. What's your Bloommy?
Do you have, all right, is there a Bloommy app where you can use the chat feature on the go?
Like Facebook Messenger but for Bloommy.
There is a mobile app. Yeah. So there is a mobile Bloomberg app. Yes. And that app includes the chat.
This is actually fascinating. Okay. So you guys have your AOL, basically you have your own chat room. And does that mean that you guys aren't using sort of Slack or Teams or any of that? Does it all...
I work entirely over IB personally.
You know, people still chat over like, you know, I still DM with people on Twitter or WhatsApp or whatever, but for work, like I entirely operate via IB.
It reminds me of, it actually reminds me most of BlackBerry Messenger, which was...
Yeah, that network. And the thing is too, so the other element, it's so obviously there's the very nice fact that anyone who has a Bloomberg terminal can IB with anyone else, but it also is like integrated into the trading workflow such that, you know, like, okay, you're my broker and I'm looking for bonds and then, you know, I put a quote in, I say like, I'm looking for this, and then the quote may like auto-populate within the chat or so forth. So it's a chat environment that is particularly well suited for people who have to communicate about things going on in financial markets.
Okay. Now question, if I, okay, I'm an independent, you know, financial expert, analyst, trader, etc. I have my house in Westchester. I have my office set up. I need a terminal. Where do I go to cop? How much does it cost?
You know what, I think if you search bloomberg.net in your browser, there's probably a phone number to a salesperson. And I do not think Bloomberg News would be thrilled with me like that.
So you're saying that I, you're saying that if I, do you have to, I guess what I'm asking though is do you have to prove your bona fides to get one?
No, I don't think so. No, no, no, no. I mean, I think if you pay, if you pay...
You pay, you pay. Yeah. Yeah.
You pay. I mean, again, please do not hold, you know, as far as I know, you know, if you want a Bloomberg terminal and you want to buy one or if you want to, at least the formal thing is if you want to subscribe to the Bloomberg software terminal, I think you call up a salesperson and they'll give you and you'll find the price. And...
I tell you what, if I was a certain kind of single guy in New York with a nice enough apartment, I think I'd have a terminal in the corner just so people see it.
Yeah. The Termy in the corner gets them wet.
There is something really cool about having a terminal. I have, you know...
Okay, I just searched online. Sorry for interrupting y'all. A single user, one terminal annual subscription fee is $27,000 to $32,000 a year.
Yeah, that seems very reasonable for something of that.
Cost as much as a Kia Sephia.
Yeah. I mean, I think that for something that specialized though, I just, I've always been fascinated with those because it seems like...
Come over sometime. [laughter] Yeah. Come over. Like I can show you all the cool things.
You're like, here's a bunch of [__] you don't understand. There's some games.
So that's one of those things where like we were talking about restaurants earlier, but like I've always talked about recently like I hate where when the barrier of entry to something is just merely the price. Like anyone can get into any club as long as you pay for it. This is one thing where the price feels about right where like you have to care about this information enough and have $30,000 a year extra to do this and you are deemed worthy of gaining access to this versus...
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
That's a barrier of entry I approve of.
I've always been fascinated with that though and I'm glad this is honestly the first time anyone's given me some straight answers on it. So, I appreciate that.
Yeah. No, I'm happy. I love the terminal. I'm not just saying that. I love using the terminal. I want everyone to love the terminal. I'm not just saying that. I'm not paid to say that.
As a question though, if you're forced to use a regular machine, are you bumbling around? Like, do you know how to navigate? Do you feel lost without the terminal?
How do you turn this thing on? [laughter]
You know, it used to be that the terminal, so the terminal is really fundamentally a piece of software that works on a PC. It wasn't always the case. And there is a dedicated keyboard that actually has some different keys and it has...
Okay, there's color coding involved.
But you can use it on any computer. It used to be, however, my understanding is it used to be that the terminal software was much more integrated into the hardware because if you think about the fact that prior to the widespread availability of the internet, being able to communicate data from one computer to another was not a trivial thing. But yeah, I hate being on a computer that doesn't have the Bloomberg terminal software. I want to be able to, you know, do my charting functions.
So, all right. So, one of your kids is having a meltdown at the Mellow Mushroom and you pull out the iPad to try to satiate them and you're like, 'Look, I can't [__] you guys.'
Yeah. You're on your own.
Going some other, since you spend a lot of time on the terminal, you are a master of the markets. Is there any...
What is stopping you from becoming a billionaire?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I'm not a master of the market, you know. I look, people ask various versions of this from time to time.
I just didn't know if like is there like any type of, you know, because this is your job is the journalistic integrity, I'm not allowed to, you know, whatever it might be.
No, it's, I mean, there are, yes, there are certainly rules about what from an journalistic integrity standpoint you can trade. It is very...
But I mean if Pelosi is allowed to do it, why can't your ass is what I'm saying, you know?
Great question. Great question. I mean, that is a great question. I mean, I think it's good that journalists aren't allowed to, I think, I mean, first of all, it's good that journalists aren't allowed to trade for their own, for the integrity of the news organization. It's also good that journalists aren't allowed to trade because that probably saves them a lot of money because most of them would do it terribly. I would say generally speaking, most people should desire to work at a place that constrains them from trading because most people would do better just in the sort of set-it-and-forget-it portfolio. Yeah. You know, just buy the index fund, maybe buy some treasuries and then check in on a year. That's the most cliché financial advice in the world. It also happens to be pretty good, I think, for like 99.9% of people.
Depending on how many monitors you have in your living room.
Yeah. No, if you have eight monitors, you could beat the market, that's for sure. But I only have space for two. And so therefore, I'm glad that I can...
Okay. So you are technically not allowed to play the markets?
There are pretty serious constraints. Yeah, I don't play the market.
But is this enforced by the law or by your employer?
By the employer. Bloomberg. I don't know. I think these are things, I think most news organizations within New York City will have their own set of rules. I don't think there's any laws per se. I think that's just a good way to destroy the reputation of your company. But look, there's, you know, like we...
Don't talk about Bari Weiss like that. Don't talk about Bari Weiss like that.
There's news entities that are like built on this. A few of them launch every few years. Someone has this idea that we are going to hire journalists to do investigative stories and we're going to trade on the subjects of their investigative reporting prior to the story coming out and that will be the business model of our newsroom. I don't know whether any of those have really been successful, but like, look, you know, you could in theory have a hybrid sort of news-org trading shop. And I'd say like that kind of exists. There are certainly...
Newsletters on Substack and others that essentially have this like hybrid version of the business model where like someone is writing about the topic, but also, you know, trading or whatever. Same thing with a lot of sports gambling as well of like here's blah blah blah and if I were you I'd do this bet, this bad bet, this bad bet, this bet.
Yeah. And here's what I'm doing. Yeah. So, like, you know, I don't think there's really any laws around this. It's more like how much do you want to have some self-respect for what you're publishing?
Okay. Have people maybe with a little, anyone slid into your Bloomberg DMs and said, 'Hey, you know, I'll give you, you know, I'm going to Zelle you $100k if you tell, you know, I got $3 million. I want to know where to invest it. I'll pay you 10% or whatever.' Do you get offers like that? Do you want offers like that?
No, I never have. You know, like I, no, I never have. I'd love to tell some story of...
It's just dick pics mostly.
I was, I guess I, you know, I was offered a life-changing fortune and I didn't do it because I have such integrity, but actually...
What's funny about me, I was offered a life-changing amount of money and I said no because of the self-respect.
I mean, at a certain point can you retire? Can you put the jersey up in the rafters and just go start getting [__] big ass stacks of paper?
It's not obvious that like this is the thing, which is people ask various versions of this question. And they're like, 'Oh, have you ever like thought about, you know, going to the other side, like being an investor, working at a hedge fund or a fund?' It's like, 'No, like I'm a journalist. I talk about what happened yesterday. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.' Okay. And so like I don't think, and the other thing is I by and large have come to think that most reporters, journalists, whatever, do not have the right mindset for the actual job of trading and investing. You know, we're like sort of trained to be cynical and like, you know, it takes some like trend over the last several years, AI, crypto, etc. Like...
If you're cynical and savvy about this, you missed out on huge runs. So like by and large like you have to be a little bit...
It's a different kind of...
You have to, what I would say is like a lot of good investors have a certain, and I say this only in praise, like a certain foolish optimism and you have to have that. And foolish optimism is not something I associate with a lot of people like in media if I'm being honest.
No, I, no, I would agree. Foolish...
Foolish, foolish, but not the optimism part.
You got to have brass balls and silver balls. I also wanted to, though, I wanted to ask about this sort of, because I feel like you were around for the boom of all these startups and, you know, private equity and all these investments. And I personally am, I think every idea is bad and I don't, and when one works... [laughter] when one works...
It's a curse, but I'm cursed.
When anyone's ever, when anyone's ever been like, 'Oh, why don't you, why don't you help me with this thing? I'll give you some equity.' I'm like, 'I don't want equity. This isn't going to work. Like, are you out of your [__]? Come on, I want cash.'
And then every once in a while something works that we're surrounded by people who like have actually made a ton of money because they actually just said yes for once in their lives and we're like, 'Oh, that's never going to work.'
Yeah, we're all, you, we're the same. It's like, that's not going to work. That... Yeah.
You know what? I'll take the stock. [__] cash.
But I guess my question is seeing so many of those, how many times have you thought to yourself like this one's going to work and it does? Like how often are you surprised, I guess is my question, as someone who knows this stuff a little more intimately than a layman.
Probably Tesla was the last one for you, Joe.
I'm surprised almost all the time when anything works, particularly in the media industry, specifically.
So you're saying that Semafor getting $40 million is a surprise to you?
I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed. Is that how you put it?
Should be more like Sema 2 instead of Sema 4. Is that what you're saying, Chris?
But that's, no, I guess my whole thing with this is that the whole like valuation culture. As someone who doesn't work in numbers or understand it that well, I'm always flabbergasted by like, wait, so you owe somebody $50 million technically, but you're worth $500 million based on some projection. It's just all, it all feels fake. That's my problem. It all feels like a spreadsheet.
No, if you think about like, so like imagine let's just say a company gets a $50 or a $40 million investment, right? Like in reality, you know, at some point the implication of that is that this is going to be a company that in the future is making tons of cash such that the person who made this investment actually withdraws $40 million and multiples of $40 million in profit back out of the company and they ultimately pay back the investor.
Mm-hmm. I mean, but what happens in reality, but what happens most of the time is that the company gets a bigger valuation and either, okay, maybe it gets bought out by another company and then the investors get paid back or it goes public and then a bunch of public shareholders own it and then the investor sells theirs. But still the fundamental aspect of all investment is this idea that this will be a profitable enterprise that will produce so much cash because revenues are higher than costs and that profits will be distributed back to those investors.
The EBITDA is [__] lit. So that's why we're doing...
But it's so, but I, so like if you, like if you think about an investment you're like, 'Oh, well, you know, here's a $200 million company. I could see it maybe worth $500 million in a few years if they do well.' It's like, okay, yeah, I guess I can see that. If you say, here's a $200 billion company, and I expect that in a few years they will be massively profitable such that cash will be returned to shareholders. Like, no, that's so hard to imagine. Even though fundamentally it should kind of be the same thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. No, you're right. It's different. It is different, but it feels the same.
But if you're just like, 'Oh, you know what, the valuation will be higher. I'm not going to worry too much about actually a profitable enterprise that will pay back the shareholders and then some.' If you're just thinking, 'Oh, the valuation will probably be higher in a few years.' It's like, 'Okay, I can get my head around that.'
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll stick to that then. I'll stick to that then.
Yeah. Just invest in the companies with rising. It's that easy. Just invest in the ones where the valuation is going to go up.
Unfortunately, Joe, I'm not super liquid right now.
That's actually a good idea, Joe. I'm going to start doing that.
That is financial advice.
Okay. Joe, did you ever, did you get Bitcoin or Ethereum or anything like that back in the day or still currently?
This is the curse. I've been following it forever, you know, but it's like, no, I'm like the most boring, boring investor in the world.
So, when you say forever, you had the opportunity to buy Bitcoin when it was...
We all did. We all, like it was just sitting there on Coinbase at like $10. [laughter]
Like it was just sitting right there. Like this is the thing, which is like making a lot of money is just clicking a few buttons on your phone. But the problem is you don't know which button. It's like that joke that people have. It's like there's, you know, I've seen there's like there's millions of dollars trapped in your phone right now and the right sequence of buttons can extract that millions.
It's like someone else is using their time tapping on the phone and sending a tweet. That's what I do. And someone else did those same thumb taps and they made tens of millions of dollars on Bitcoin, but they're all just thumb taps.
