Come on, I know. It's all right. Who wants to have a... [Music] I does it. That's right, ladies. You can't... if this is wrong, you don't want to be right. I just want to say I think you... Elon copied you. It looks like surrender to the... sit... [Music] down. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. This is a live broadcast, as we said we were going to do it here. We're very excited. We always have a great time at South by Southwest. How is your South by Southwest, Scott?
I love it here. Oh, you want to say hi? I'm Scott G... go ahead. Um, I'm Scott Galloway. Okay, by the way, 9:00 a.m. on Sunday of daylight savings... what the [__] are you thinking?
Yeah, I know, I know. It's like... it's like a dog whistle from Mormons or people with no life. What are you doing?
True. Literally, this is a negative forward-looking indicator of your social options. What the [__] are you doing here? I have... why they scheduled us at 10:00, that's what I was thinking. It's like Doge in charge of this [__]. What is going on?
Oh, but they have you and Senator Warren at the prime time. At 4:00, 'billionaires should not exist.' Up next, Mark Cuban. Sorry, go ahead.
Sorry, yeah, yeah. Tax the rich. Somehow I became worth $1 million serving in Congress.
No, it's her house. She has a house.
Oh yeah, that's her house. It is. No, she's $8 million. She's $8 million.
Yeah, yeah, that's not rich by these people's standards. Okay, yeah, all right. Okay, um, she doesn't trade stocks anyway. How is your South by Southwest?
I love it here. I like the food, I like the people. Um, what does a Texan German car enthusiast say? What? Audi. It's Sunday morning. It's Sunday morning. Um, have you been partying? You want something dirtier? Yeah, go ahead. I come down here because... I come down here because my urologist is down here.
And you get to my age, you get a drip. Like, it takes a good, like, I don't know, three weeks to pee now. And so I go into my urologist, he's like, 'Did you have sex recently?' And I said, 'Yeah, about five days ago.' And he said, 'Does she live near here?' And I said, 'Yeah.' And he's like, 'Well, you may want to get back. I think you're coming.'
Good morning. Good morning. And yes, they do serve Bloody Marys at 7:30 at the Bunker Hotel. Vegetables. God, I am jet-lagged. I am jet-lagged coming back from... Are you interviewing Peter Attia?
Dr. Peter Attia. I am aware of him.
Well, Peter Attia and Andrew Huberman were like the poster children for...
I'm aware of them. You know, big handsome guys who like work out all the time.
Yeah, they've declared war on alcohol.
Yeah, I'm taking alcohol back. Yeah, young people need to drink more. That is what... what is a bigger issue: the alcohol your liver can absolutely handle when you're between the ages of 18 and 40, or the fact that none of you are having sex and making connections? Drink more, for God's sakes.
I think they're doing a lot more weed is what's happening.
There's a lot more weed about that. What do you mean by that?
Who cares? I'm just saying that's my impression.
For... they're doing, uh, they're doing drugs, but the thing I don't like about those drugs is I don't think they're a social... Yeah, right. You drink alcohol and you just become more attractive to you, which gives you the confidence to go up to someone who likely does not find you attractive, but maybe over time—and I'm being somewhat serious here—gives you a chance to demonstrate excellence. Do you know... do you want to know the scariest stat I have seen?
We're totally going off script here. I'm just... I'm so jet-lagged. I'm fine with it. Go ahead.
She came in from Australia. Um, anyways, 51% of 18 to 24-year-old males have never asked a woman out in person. Think about just how tragic that is, that these young men are not developing the skills to, much less potentially meet a romantic partner, have kids—which I think is the whole shooting match. Not that you can't be happy without that, but I think everyone should have the option. And then they're not developing social skills, and we don't like to talk about this, but your ability to open and establish contact and connection with someone...
Question: how many women are asking men out? Just curious.
Oh, isn't that nice? Oh, it's nice. I'm just curious. Why can't that happen? Here's the bottom line: we talk a big game, but somewhere between 70 and 80% of women...
Nice. What does that mean? 70... between 70 and 80% of women still say they want the man to initiate contact, so they still expect...
I mean, think about young men, quite frankly, are getting a lot of mixed messages in my view, and it's making them asocial. And then we have the most talented companies in the world who sponsor this conference trying to convince them they can have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with an algorithm. Here, trust me on this. Trust me. Go out, drink more, make a series of bad decisions that might pay off.
I'm not sure you're right on the statistics, honestly, but you should do that. Everybody should ask each other out. My sons are both asked out by the girls they are now seeing, their girlfriends.
Yeah, but your sons are handsome.
Um, okay, the rest of us have to take our shot. The rest of us...
The rest of us have to do something like this. You know what I think you need...
Oh God, here he goes again.
Do you believe in love at first sight? No? Or should I walk by? Show your abs. How about breakfast? Oh God. Call you? Or do you know what I'm thinking right now?
I'm reconsidering the possibility of doing another four-year deal with Scott Galloway, but I've just reconsidered it.
I'll be 36. Do you think...
By the way, by the way, for men, 50 is a new 30, and for women, 40 is a new 90.
Oh my... I'm not... Oh my God. I don't... I should have slept in and watched Church Chat. All right.
You know what? We're going to end up together in like a... like you'll be wheeling me...
Yes, I'll be wheeling you around, looking over the wheelchair.
Yes, and then I'll keel over and you'll be sitting there like by yourself because no one's going to want to talk to you anyway.
Um, um, speaking of shots, we're going to do shots here like we promised.
I don't do shots, really.
Yeah, I don't do shots. What do you mean you don't do shots? I don't do shots. Why? Someone... it's like you literally just told them to drink and now you don't do shots.
We'll put sugary [__] on top of it in a lime and pretend like you're literally... This is me at the SEC house last night. The loveliest people come up to me and they're like, 'Thank you for your work on Stripe.' Just get me a [__] Maker's and ginger. I don't want...
You're doing a shot because it says 'Don't Mess with Texas.' All right, we're going to [__] with Texas today. Anyway, um, as I was saying, we're doing our thing. We've got a lot to get to today. We're taking questions from the live audience, of which are going to be most of the show. But we want to talk about a couple of things following the news that Trump is reining in Elon Musk. Neither of us believe this. And Doge. Let's talk about how Elon's actual businesses are doing as he dabbles in government. SpaceX's largest Starship exploded this past week during a test flight. That's the second time it's happened. He does blow up a lot of rockets. Tesla's sales and stock price are down, and the company is at risk of bleeding cash. Is this business muppets happening because of his role in government or in spite of it? How do you look at these? Because the bit... and then X, which may or may not go public, we'll talk about that in a minute, um, is seeing competition from China, from Jeff Bezos, from all kinds of stuff. What's happening here?
Well, I think it's a tale of two cities here, and that is, uh, Tesla is crashing in the sense... I mean, you've heard so... I'm doing breakfast with the Nike people tomorrow. Nike went political with their embrace of Colin Kaepernick, but they did the math, and that is two-thirds of Nike sales are outside of the US, and no one outside of the US thinks the US has got race relations right. Two-thirds, and probably of their revenue, and probably 70 or 80% of their profits come from people under the age of 30. They also have a huge customer base in non-whites. So essentially, the people who burned their Nikes after they endorsed Nike—that was probably their first pair of Nikes—and that is, they knew that their core audience would probably feel very good about that move. As smart as that was, Musk's political forays or adventures are that stupid, because 75% of Republicans say they would never buy an EV. He's gone very red pill in California, his biggest market. EV sales for Tesla are down dramatically, and even after this crash in sales in Europe. If you look at the company, it's lost about a third of its value in February. It's lost all of its kind of Trump bump gains. If you look at it from a valuation perspective, Apple only grew 2% last year, but it trades at a 38 times earnings multiple. Amazon grew 10%, 38 times PE. Nvidia grew about 114%, and it has a PE multiple of 40. Tesla grew 1%. Tesla's flat, and it has a price earnings multiple of 144. So Tesla is still, even after shedding a third of its value, is the most overvalued company in tech, maybe the exception of Palantir. And the sales are just not... it's crashing. His political calculus as it relates to Tesla was just irrational. Now, to be fair, SpaceX and the value proposition of SpaceX is that rockets blow up, and that is, they can take risks that NASA and the government can't. And 99% of their launches are successful. They're responsible for about 78% of the launches right now. The Falcon Heavy rocket can get [__] into the air, into orbit, for $1,500 a kilogram. The next best is a Russian company called Angara that can do it at three times the cost. So their ability to take those sorts of risks and put [__] into space for a third of the price of the second best per kilogram launch vehicle—I think SpaceX is going to be worth more than Tesla in 2025.
But taking your eye off the ball because there are now competitors, there's going to be increasing amounts of competitors. Will the same thing happen? Is this political calculation a good one for him? Because they may use Starlink, the FAA, they may use... but okay, we're buying Cybertrucks for some reason for the State Department.
I think more than trying to increase revenues is trying to clear out obstacles. So there are 11 federal agencies that have 32 investigations currently underway for different Musk companies, and a lot of those inspectors and people seem to be getting the axe. So I don't think his foray into government is about trying to increase revenues. I think it's about trying to clear out the inspectors and potential regulation. But it doesn't look like the calculus is very smart here. Like David Sacks getting involved in crypto and then getting Trump to have dinner with the guy from Ripple, who probably promised him money, and then all of a sudden deciding to include Ripple in the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. By the way, there's nothing [__] strategic about that. And then all of a sudden Ripple rips. That's pure... that's smart political kleptocracy, corruption, but at least that's smart. his political forays so far, I don't think are paying off for him.
You don't think so? But when he... um, what will happen then to Tesla from your perspective? Just a downward slide? I mean, they have to obviously update the cars. They're talking about self-driving, full self-driving. They're talking about robotaxis, which already are in effect here with Waymo for years, actually.
Yeah, but you said it. Waymo is light years ahead of them. Yeah, and if Tesla starts trading like a regular automobile company in terms of price to earnings, it would be at 14 bucks a share. It's just impossible to rationalize a valuation. I still think it's a really good car. I think, you know, I can't help it. I got a Tesla on my Uber app. I cancel or I walk outside. I know that's wrong. Um, but it is a good car. It's a great company. It should trade at a multiple of 50 to 100% more than the other car companies, meaning it's a 25 or a $30 stock.
So where's the benefit for him in this kleptocracy you speak of?
That's the correct question. I don't know. Fame, narcissism, go red pill, clear out inspectors. To me, the calculus is not smart here. Tesla has basically become a brand that has some very negative brand associations.
Well, I think that too. I think people who are buying it are repulsed by it or act repulsed by it. And not... but you know, you see all these stories, and actually you're seeing violence at Tesla facilities, um, not just there but at charging stations. The cars are getting defaced. I think people are embarrassed to have them. Um, I mean, the Uber thing is simple. I actually don't... won't take a Tesla Uber. I just don't. I don't like the cars actually myself. Um, I find them... it feels like I'm sitting in the inside of an egg. Um, I know it sounds dumb, but if you're in there, it feels sterile. And I don't... if I'm going to pay more for a car, an Uber, I want a nice, comfortable car. But that's besides the point. I think it's just... it's just brand destruction is what's happening, and he doesn't seem to mind because I think he's bored with his other businesses, and this is interesting to him, what he's doing. But the pushback is real from the thing. Do you think that the case with him and Marco Rubio—there was a very funny SNL skit last night on that—do you think this... the pushback is actually real? People keep predicting he and Trump finally...
If so, 92% of Trump's advisers were fired, so there's a 90%... it's like being second lieutenant in Vietnam. You're just... you're probably not going to last very long.
Yeah, ugly. It's dark. 92% of their advisers in the first administration were fired, more than triple the number of advisers... I'm sorry, more than all the advisers that were fired in the previous three administrations. He's very good at creating human heat shields. If in fact he has told his cabinet they're now in charge and he's an adviser, it means he's done. He does not have the complexion to go to, you know, Senator Rubio—excuse me, Secretary Rubio. And also, these individuals have no incentive to trim their departments. They have very difficult jobs and their departments. All of this is a fine... a giant [__] distraction. So far, according to the Wall Street Journal, Doge has saved $2.6 billion. If you wanted to 6X Doge, just cut off all subsidies to Tesla, which have been $15 billion. This is a giant misdirect.
This is... this is a giant misdirect to get you and mostly young people to look away. 'Oh, Doge, oh, he's crazy, he's firing people.' All these sad stories about federal employees being... they're actually real. They are actually getting fired. I get it. And people in the private sector are fired every day. But they want you to look over here such that you don't look at the tax plan that is going to add $800 billion to the deficit. So this is... this is the conspiracy that is elegant, and that people aren't looking at. Talk about DEI being a helicopter crash. Talk about Doge. Talk about inflaming people by saying... by stupid laws like male versus female. That's how they're spending their time, because look over here, not at the fact that the 0.1% who will say under their breath, 'Yeah, I don't want to go to his inauguration, but my accountant tells me I'm going to get another $11 million this year.' This is a conspiracy between the 0.1% and an administration that wants you to look over here and ignore the fact that we're about to levy the greatest increase in taxes in history, called a deficit. Anyone under the age of 40 in here at some point is either going to have to pay that back, or the forward-leaning investments we've been able to make in the past in technology and space and education are going to get crowded out by the interest on this debt, which is now greater than our military. So we need to reframe this discussion and say America is about to incur the greatest tax increase in history on young people, that's deferred, called the deficit. Don't look at that, look at that. They just fired three people from the National Forestry Service. Who the [__] cares? I know it's sad. I know it's bad.
Well, no, it's got... I don't... I think it is actually a hollowing out, not just of the regulators, of Elon, although I think that's very clear. That's... I mean, they're definitely... what is the percentage? The actual number, it's a very small amount. He's not saving any money. I mean, the whole thing is kind of... it is a misdirect. And at the same time, they were going to pass this tax law anyway. They were not going to not pass this tax law. And I do think the Democrats, focus... as we talked about last week, focusing in on Elon is good politically because he's disliked from poll after poll. The polls are very clear. So I'm not so sure it's the smartest idea to have this part... this misdirect is different than the DEI crashed planes versus something else. I do think it's at the heart of what Trump's doing, and I think he's antagonizing a lot of his base, and by that I mean people in Washington, for no good reason, when he could get these things passed no matter what. I think there's a large percentage of moderates that feel like breaking some eggs and laying off people in the public sector.
Whether... first off, if this were an audit, the net results of the audit so far is there is dramatically less inefficiency, fraud, and waste than we thought in government. They're just... if you look at their quote-unquote wall of receipts, they don't... they haven't been able, it appears, to actually find any fraud or waste.
Exactly. Right, right. 'We saved $8 billion.' Oh no, it's actually $8 million, and the money's already been spent. And then numbers two, three, and four that they supposedly saved money on weren't real.
If this is an audit, the government is getting an outstanding clean bill of health around fraud and waste. But having said that, I do think moderates kind of like the idea, and every administration has done some form of this, just not so weird.
They do. There's always... there always is that sentence, like, 'Of course, we're all for government reform.' If you notice that, they always do that. But these departments are... Senator Rubio isn't going to agree to cuts if he's actually in charge now. He's got a tough job. He's not going to say, 'Yeah, you snort, do a few rails, and then come in here and tell me what ambassadors or what people we should lay off.' He's not going to say that. So if in fact he does look like his soul has come out, if he has to report into him now, it means Doge is over, in my view.
Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Um, it'll take a while to get him out. Elon is a bit like mold.
Um, so let's talk about how Elon is influencing the business world by moving his... Texas, here to Texas. He's not the first to do it. Now Chevron, KFC, and Meta are talking about putting their HQs here. The governor of Delaware, where most Fortune 500 companies are incorporated, is now scrambling to keep companies there. You and I have talked about that. I mean, do people... um, is this a... you have talked about it being a good thing because Texas is more business-friendly versus other places. I assume other states will try to do the same thing. Wyoming, I know, is doing that. Nevada. There's certain states that are doing that. Do you think Delaware is over as a place to do business?
No, Delaware is traditionally seen as very corporate-friendly, especially... they are efficient around their Chancery Court and the way they decide stuff. I don't think you can be for competition and ask big tech to break up and not support competition among states. I think the thing that's going to incense California to get its [__] together is a lot of people are leaving for Texas because they do... The three greatest arbitrages available, I think, in economic history are: one, the arbitrage from fossil fuels to things that build everything, from this to, you know, the tennis shoes you have probably have petroleum in them. Second is to find young, ambitious people who will work as hard or harder because they have dogs and kids and will be 80 or 90% as good as the person who's been with your company 20 years, but because they're naive and can live in a 300-square-foot apartment, you'll have to pay them 30 or 40% as much. The most successful companies in the world participate in the arbitrage of young people who don't know any better. Right? Those are your most valuable employees, is the overeducated, really hardworking 25-year-old that you pay 80 grand instead of 250 grand to the 40-year-old who has kids. The other big arbitrage right now, economically, in the United States, is state arbitrage, and that is people who basically say, 'Okay,' and I did this in 2010. I got my... my son was denied... he's doing great now because he was speech-delayed when he was four. From seven out of seven schools that wanted to charge us $58,000 a year for him to play with blocks, we moved to... we moved to Florida, and the school there, a lovely little school, was $12,000. So the geographic arbitrage that's taking place across America, where people are moving to lower-cost, higher-quality living states like Texas and Florida, is a great thing. So companies coming here, I think, is a good thing. I think it's important. What's weird is Meta, Chevron, and KFC. So carbon, depression, and diabetes.
Yeah. Would you move to Texas? It's a little...
I would. Florida hasn't worked out as well. The whole Miami tech thing is sort of a bust right now.
Yeah, it's a good quality of life, though. It's a really nice quality of life. But that didn't take here. You don't... you think you can live there? This seems pretty nice.
No, no, no. Austin... they don't like the gays. Austin doesn't like gay people.
Austin does, but it's... I know that. I'm aware of that. I'm aware. But let me say, I worry about my family a lot, like in different certain states. Whether... I love Austin, I love this area, but you have a state government that's hostile to my family. So it's really hard when I'm making... Florida, forget it. And I'm even worried in D.C. My kid's in a D.C. public school, and you know, she brought home... they did like a little diversity moment where they were just... was coloring in a coloring thing, and I thought, 'Oh wow, one of these [__] senators from some state who has no values that I have are going to try to mess with my kid's education.' I think about it all the time.
And then I'm like, I don't... I don't want to be in your shoes, so I take your word for it.
Yeah, it's just... you just... you have to be thinking really hard about where you want to raise your kids and where they're going to attack your family. I mean, I just... I think about it. I didn't think I'd have to think about it again in my life, except now I do. So again, I don't have your lived experience, right? Um, but the tax is fantastic.
Well, now I can hire extra security as a Florida resident. Yeah, I think a lot of Florida citizens are horrified by some of the laws that have been passed around restricting a woman's right... yeah, rights. There's no doubt about it. That's rattling. But just on the ground, I live in Delray Beach. It feels like a pretty progressive community that's very open and welcoming.
I get it, but anytime a state can [__] with me, I'm very aware of it. And it's one of the reasons I love California and stuff. But I get it. I get it. I get it. There's definitely a cost-benefit analysis, but I just find I'd rather be in states that support my family. That's all. Um, so what... what do you think? A lot of states will move here? Do you think they'll move?
Oh, they'll definitely be companies that incorporate here and move here, and you are here. I think that's a great thing. I think competition, interstate competition, is really important. I think it's good for the...
They're building like crazy here. What in the hell's going on? I've never seen such... like every time I come back here, I think there can't be another building here in Austin, and then there's another [__] building.
Yeah, it's getting a little much, I'll be honest with you.
All right, uh, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll have more for you. Okay, Scott, we're back. On Friday, President Trump held the first-ever crypto summit at the White House.
Such a pro, right? What an elegant segue. How did she pull it off? Oh my God, what are you doing here on a Sunday morning? Can I just tell you, there is no way you could do what I... [Music] do. See, the crowd agrees on a lot of levels. Let me just say, you're the... if you understood what's happening here, you're the pretty one. Incredibly, you're the pretty one who just sits there and says, 'I'm sorry, K... what did you say?' Yeah, I'm the... Do you think we'll ever have sex? That's what I get. Do you think we'll ever have sex? Do you think we'll ever have sex, the two of us? Yeah, just curious.
