The Joe Rogan Experience.
It's just so strange how quickly it snuck up on us in that there's two narratives that we hear. What the one narrative is, we're in real trouble and that this thing is going to take over every aspect of society and it's essentially going to be a superior life force, a superior intellect that exists amongst us that we created and we don't think that's wise. And then there's the other side that is saying things like what Elon says where he's saying we're going to have universal high income. It's going to be so much prosperity that no one's ever going to have to toil again. There'll be no more third world countries. There'll be no more poverty. Like we can eradicate poverty with the resources that we have on Earth and we can change what it means to have to work. Like you just to provide yourself with food and housing, that's all going to be easy and free. And then everything else is going to be you have to find a purpose in your life.
My problem is, and I love Elon, but the people who have that perspective are all making money off AI.
They are all invested like heavily. Mark Andreessen, all these people that have this rosy view of it, they're all invested heavily into it. So when someone like you who's not necessarily in that camp, you know, that is more of a true objective analyst of what's going on, when you have a positive aspect or a positive viewpoint of it, I get a little more excited.
Yeah, well, I mean, the truth is we don't know, right? How it will pan out. So I mean, I think there are these scenarios where we unlock this, you know, enormous boost both to economic productivity, but then, you know, across medicine, entertainment, environment,
travel, all kinds of things and like a tsunami of wealth just kind of flows through and lifts all boats. And then the idea of human work becomes an anachronism. And where you have machines that can do everything that we can do physically and mentally and do it much better and cheaper. And so I think in those scenarios where this really works, the transformation is a lot deeper. Let me say that kind of layers to the onion. So like the most superficial level is, well, they automate your job. So what are people going to do for product going to work? Well, that comes a little bit deeper. First, like the most superficial level is people just wonder where will I get the job if the robot replaces me. And then the superficial level of that conversation, I think, is, well, you need to retrain workers so they can work in other fields and maybe there needs to be, I don't know, employment insurance whilst they are being retrained or something like that. But once you think through where this ultimately leads, it's you think like it's not just a few jobs, I think, but it's really everything that humans can do to a good approximation. With maybe the exception being where like the consumer has a direct preference that the particular product or service be done by human. Like priest, prostitute, and politician.
Well, politician, hopefully not. Hopefully AI can handle that all without any corruption.
Yeah, but someone's going to take credit for it.
This is true. Encode it. Yeah.
And so then you get to these like more profound questions, I think, about meaning and purpose. And like what does a human life look like
at technological maturity.
Right. Also, what is experience? Does experience have to be measurable? Like, do you have to touch it? Do you have to measure it and weigh it? Or is virtual experience still experience? Like if you have a very full and enjoyable and fulfilling virtual life, is that enough? You know what I mean? Like, do you have to do everything in the material world, or can you find happiness in a virtual world that doesn't currently exist, but we could clearly see the technology, if it expands, there's going to be the possibility of experiencing a Matrix-type reality.
Yeah, I think I see where you're going. But yeah, I mean, I think like different strokes for different folks. If you imagine a world where presumably these virtual worlds will be very rich and deep and fascinating, but some people might just like the idea of, you know, climbing the real Mount Everest rather than, you know, being in a
Most certainly. But, however, there could come a time where people are locked out of regular reality. Like, this is worst-case scenario with AI. Is that you have your needs taken care of, but there is no purpose. There's nothing to do. There's nothing to do because AI is taking care of all aspects of society. Other than recreation, there's nothing to do. And then this one recreation comes along that's not reality, but it's way more fulfilling and exciting than any other aspect of reality. And, you know, an example that would just be in a very minor way, your phone provides you with that sort of an escape. And it's not even that thrilling, and yet it's massively addictive. People are on their phones six hours a day. If we come up with a virtual reality that's way more exciting than regular reality, everyone's going to hop on in.
Yeah, I mean, I think to some extent this would maybe be the case whether you go the virtual path or the physical path. I mean, you could imagine a future where they're like resorts and people are sort of lying in beach chairs sipping drinks all day long and like that's also a kind of checking out, right?
Yeah, well, that's not fulfilling. You know, the thing about a virtual reality is you don't have to even live within our physics. I mean, you can fly. You can do anything.
space of possibilities, but either way it could be like a passive existence in physical reality where you're like lounging at the beach or something like that, or in video games like you could have like a really intense, straining every fiber to try to succeed in this virtual environment, or like one where you're just kind of floating on some cloud in a drug-like state.
