There's a company that's almost completely unfamiliar to people outside of tech. Unlike Google, Apple, Nvidia, Microsoft, this one has spent decades flying under the radar. You're almost certainly watching this on a device that only exists because of what they make. The chip inside your phone, the chip that trained the AI model you used this morning. None of it happens without this one company. That company is ASML. What they build are called lithography machines. And if you want a simple way to picture it, think of a super precise printing press. ASML uses optics, either lenses or mirrors, depending on the type of machine, to control light. The machine uses optics to direct this light to burn the desired circuit pattern onto a silicon wafer so small you could fit thousands of them across the width of a single human hair. Each of these machines has over 100,000 parts and costs more than $150 million. And every advanced chip powering the AI revolution, every GPU in every data center requires the use of DUV and EUV machines. And because every single advanced chip that powers the AI revolution was made possible by an ASML machine, they naturally sit at the crossroads of technology, economics, national security, and geopolitics.
My guest today is Christophe Fouquet, the president and CEO of ASML, one of the most consequential leaders in global technology. He's a French physicist who grew up in Grenoble, spent decades moving across the semiconductor world at Applied Materials, KLA-Tencor, before joining ASML in 2008 and becoming the person responsible for the one machine the world cannot do without. But what I'm most interested in today isn't the machine, it's the man, because you don't end up running the most strategically important technology company on earth by accident. I want to know what that journey actually looked like from the inside.
Christophe, welcome to A Bit Personal. It's really lovely to be here in the Netherlands with you and to have this conversation. I know I've been looking forward to it.
Thank you very much. It's a great pleasure to be with you today.
So there are some people who literally say that ASML is the or one of the most important companies in the world, and defined by if there was ever a disruption at ASML, it would affect the global economy and it would certainly affect the trajectory of AI. So is that an exaggeration to say that ASML is one of the most important companies in the world?
Well, I think first I like that you say one of the most important, not the most important, because when you look at what has been happening with AI, with semiconductors in the last few years, I think it's become obvious to everyone how important this is for the future of our society, the future of our economy. AI is really today at the center of everything we do. We see huge investment, we see huge potential, and therefore people see AI and everything that is related to AI as extremely strategic, extremely important. And of course, ASML is one of the key players in AI. As you know, we are making machines that enable our customers who make chips to basically make those chips. And yes, without those chips, you know, the whole AI ecosystem is at risk.
So I think we do fully understand today that we are indeed one of the most important companies. We understand the impact, you know, of what we do can have on our society, and therefore we make, I will say, attention, we pay a lot of attention to make sure that we are not being disrupted, because a lot of people, of course, rely on ASML products today.
Okay. So when you wake up in the morning, do you think to yourself the kind of significance of your role? Because it's not, it's not just that you're making equipment for AI. You are actually the sole provider of EUV equipment for what enables the most advanced AI chips. So do you wake up in the morning thinking about this?
No, I don't think you feel the burden every day because I think the good news is, you know, ASML has been existing for 40 years, and for 40 years we've been really working in developing those machines. And I think those machines were always important, important for our customers, or for many, many years they already depended on us to be able to create their chips. So I think this is not really new. The burden is not really new. I think what is really new is the realization of the entire world of how important it is. So I think we have been very important for many, many years, but maybe no one knew about it. And nowadays I think we are very important, and I think pretty much everyone is aware of that.
Okay. So obviously at some point in time, ASML became so much more than an equipment company. So presidents and prime ministers and policymakers all over the world started paying attention. So, does that surprise you that people think that ASML is so important from a geopolitical perspective? I mean, does it surprise you?
Well, I think it does surprise us a bit. At the same time, you know, it's interesting because we did work very hard, maybe like any other company, to come to that point. I think that in some way, when you work on advanced technology, your dream is that one day you have this killer application that becomes indispensable to the rest of the world. So we did work very hard to come to that point. We did invest heavily, we took a lot of risk on a technology called EUV, which I think in many ways is maybe the technology that has brought us to that point today. But we're still a bit surprised of the level of attention that we are getting nowadays. And you know, in many ways, sometimes we miss the time where we didn't get this attention, where we could focus only on technology.
Yeah. It's be careful what you wish for.
Be careful what you wish for and what comes with it. Yes.
So do you remember when that shift happened of when, you know, you were a deep tech company and now you're suddenly a strategic asset?
Well, I think that EUV is most probably, you know, in short, the reason why this happened. I think that before and after EUV are two different companies.
Not again in terms of culture or focus on technology. This was always there. But in terms of the impact it has, I think today EUV is really one technology that only ASML can deliver. For everything we have done before, I think there were always some alternatives. I think for EUV, there is a clear understanding that, well, we are the company that can create this technology, and also an understanding that to have a second company trying to do the same is quite a lot of work, because EUV took us 20, maybe 30 years, okay, to realize.
It couldn't be realized without all the knowledge we had of previous technologies, previous products. So the bar, basically, to get, I would say, a second player in this world is very difficult. So I think EUV in many ways has brought us to where we are today.
So when you took the role as CEO, and what year was that?
It was a couple of years ago, 2024.
Did you have any idea that so much of your job would be on geopolitics?
Well, I had the fear that this would be the case. I think because it started, to be honest, maybe four or five years ago, where, you know, we saw a lot more attention given to geopolitics. And, you know, for me this was also a bit of a risk because when you are a CEO, you need to focus on your company, you need to focus on your customer, on your product, on your people, and geopolitics is a lot of work.
It's not something that had a lot of value to your company. It's something that you have to deal with because you cannot ignore it. So this was a bit of a fear, and I think that, like I said, you know, in general we all hope as business leaders for geopolitics to be as quiet, as smooth as possible, so that we can focus on running our business.
So what percentage of your time do you spend on it?
Today I would say maybe 10, 20%.
Right. And where do those skills come from?
Well, you know, these are skills I think you develop over time because things change so rapidly. And if you look at geopolitics, you have many, many different interests, many, many different cultures you have to deal with. We are based in Europe, of course. We are interacting with the US, with China, with Korea, with Taiwan. Very different countries, very different angles to the geopolitical situation. So you have to develop those skills a bit on the go. There's no school that teaches you how to manage a very, very, you know, changing environment, and geopolitics is changing all the time.
You think you're good at it?
Well, I hope, you know, that I am good enough at least to drive the company through, you know, the turbulent times.
We have always been very, very focused on people, our customers. And, you know, with geopolitics, you also deal with people, right? You meet with really very smart leaders. They have an agenda. They have a certain logic. You have your own logic, and it goes down to exchanging views, trying to understand each other, and potentially having discussions that lead to the right decision.
So in that sense, maybe it's not too different from business. Okay.
Right. It's still about people. It's still about explaining, educating, sharing views, and trying to come to a consensus or compromise. So that part I think is very similar to what we have done for many years with our customers, for example.
So how do you, how do you handle the pressure sort of personally? I mean, do you have some sort of mechanism, some sort of habit, some sort of daily ritual that you go through that helps you manage the pressure?
Well, first I think, you know, I try to remember every day how big of a privilege it is to run a company like ASML, right? I think it's something that is extraordinary. The opportunity it brings in terms of what you do, who you meet, the activity you have every day is just great. So when you start from that, it takes away a lot of the potential, maybe, complaints you could have about the job.
That's number one. And number two, I think the industry is really great. And, you know, I know this industry for many, many years, the people, the players, I know the company, and this means that I'm very comfortable with a lot of that. So people ask this question about pressure quite a lot. I usually say that I don't really get stressed, to be honest.
Yes, you can have stressful situations. I'm a bit of an engineer by education. Stressful situations can be translated into: here is a problem, and if you're a good engineer, when you are given a problem, you start to work on the solution, and most engineers will find it fun. In fact, that's what you look for. So pressure is not something that I feel.
You know, I don't feel a burden running the company. I feel also very blessed to be surrounded by so many excellent people who can help you every day to take, you know, a large part of whatever problems can come your way. So I don't think that pressure is something that is with me. I also believe, by the way, if you do this job and you feel a lot of pressure, this must be complete hell, to be honest.
Right. So a lot of also, I think, the CEOs I meet, especially in this industry, typically also say, well, we don't really feel the pressure. They also say we don't really work, which is also something I feel. You know, it's, it's, it's not a task. It's, it's more of an opportunity you have every day to, to, of course, lead a company, but also to, to go through so many great experiences. So that takes away also a lot of the potential pressure. So I enjoy it very much, and as a result, I think there's not too much pressure that I feel.
So how do you start your day? I mean, how do you set yourself up for success every day?
Yeah. So this, this is a very American question.
So, you know, I'm a European CEO, so we are very down to earth on that. I think having a very balanced life, having strong purpose is very important. So it's not something you do every morning. I don't have a routine. Some people sometimes talk about a routine. I think it's something far more profound. I love my job. I also have a pretty big family, which I also love. And for me, in my entire career, the balance between the two has always been very, very important. So when I go home in the evening, when I see, you know, my family, this is a way for me to get this rebalancing act.
And you wake up in the morning refreshed. Also, I explain to people, they sometimes don't believe it, but, you know, when I go home and I cross the door of my home, I don't think about ASML anymore, which is a way also to reset.
Your mind, to free your mind, and it's very healthy. Because having space in your mind, I think, is very critical when you lead, when you want to innovate, when you want to do new things, when you may have to face the day after a new difficult problem, etc., etc. So I think this balance is very, very fundamental for me. So it's not about a routine.
It's more about a very structural balance between what I do every day in ASML and, I will say, what I do with my life in a much broader term.
Okay. Okay. Well, let's, let's go back. You know, one of the, the most fun parts of this podcast has been learning about how people were brought up and how that the values and ideals came often from their upbringing. So I, I want to, I want to shift and talk a little bit about that and talk about Christophe before the title. Maybe the title is son or brother or student. So let's start by just telling me what it was like to grow up in Grenoble. I mean, what was your childhood like? What kind of kid were you?
Well, I think that, you know, I grew up in France, and I grew up in a modest family. I think that I was most probably the first one in my family to reach the end of high school and go to university. And I could do all of that because of a very supportive system: family, of course, friends, but education itself gives a lot of space, a lot of chance to people who have a certain ability to go on. And I have experienced that pretty much my entire life. It starts very early on when, you know, you are capable to do things, maybe a bit gifted at school, but then the school system allows you to go to the next step and challenge you more and more and more, and nothing stops you. In fact, everything encourages you, if you can, to develop more.
And for me it was pretty obvious, but, you know, looking later on around the world, I realized this is not. I think this, this is a really strong opportunity when a kid is given the ability to go as far as he can. And what has been interesting is that this really continued also through my career. You know, there's no way when I grew up as a kid I ever thought I would be a CEO. I didn't even know what it was. I never thought when I started to work, you know, in this industry that I would be a CEO when I joined ASML. I didn't think about that as well. But there's been a succession of progressions, positive experiences, a lot of support across the way. You find people for some reason that help you, that support you, and allow you to go to the next step. And, well, one day you're the CEO. But this, this, this is a bit of a succession of very positive experiences along the way. Nothing ever stopped me. Everything encouraged me to go further.
Okay. And I think creating such an environment for, you know, children, for students, for later on employees, I think is extremely powerful because that allows you basically to really unlock the potential of anyone. So unlocking potential of people is one of the values we have in ASML. I think it's a very important one because if you focus on making sure that everyone in the company can go as far as his or her abilities allow him or her to go, I think you're going to end up with a great set of people and most probably many candidates to become the next CEO of ASML.
So, what was your, what was your family like? Like, like how, I mean, did you have brothers and sisters? Was it a chaotic household? What was it like growing up?
Well, I had two sisters. My parents, you know, were working. I would say it was a pretty normal family, very happy family. You know, there was a lot of, I say that's a lot of activity, a lot of, well, energy. I think energy is the right word. Loving family. We did a lot of things together. We used to like to travel. We were very curious. I think my parents were extremely supportive for us to learn, to study, to do new things, which I think are things that I'm thankful for even today, because having the, the people you really care about, the people who you love, tell you, it's okay, do it. Maybe we don't even understand at some point what the hell you're doing, but we are with you. We want you to, to be successful. I think it's very powerful.
I will use the word simple also. You know, people underestimate the value of simplicity. I think sometimes people look for very complex lives, very fancy lives. I think simplicity is a, is a way to get your core values right. You know, knowing very early on what is important, what is essential, and what is not, I think goes a long way. And I think when you come from a more modest family, you learn that faster. You learn that working hard is important. You learn that if you want to be successful, you've got to work for it. You have to deserve it. It won't come by default. You learn that you need to have friends. You need to have people that you're going to interact with positively in order to be able to achieve great things. So simplicity, I think, is a very important thing, and it's something that I still like today. We talked about complexity of, you know, the world we're living in, and that's true, but I think when it comes to values, when it comes to what is essential, I think this has to remain extremely simple.
Okay. So what, so some of the values they taught, hard work, curiosity, any, anything else that I'm missing?
Hard work, respect, dream, you know, be able to dream, be able to believe that what you have today, what you know today, doesn't have to be what you see tomorrow. Don't be afraid to change. You know, one of the things I did as a kid was to move to many different places because my father would have to move to, you know, to go to the next opportunity. Don't be afraid, okay, to change. Don't be afraid to meet with new people, to make new friends. Be open, curious. Very early on, you know, I wanted to travel. I took, I think, my first flight when I was 25, right? So this is a bit late nowadays, but I was very curious about what's happening elsewhere. You know, I did start to work in Israel, then I went to the US, then I came to the Netherlands. I'm French, as you know. I worked in France for only one year.
Right. So very early on, I was very curious about what the rest of the world can, can bring. I think curiosity is a, is a, is a huge quality. I think it's something that I always invite people to be, be curious. And if you're curious, you will learn and you will want to change. You always need to want to change. I could say improve, right? But change is a good thing, and still it's usually a thing that scares a lot of people.
So, how did your family define success for you? I mean, what would you know, they must be so impressed with what you're doing now, but how would they have defined success when you were growing up?
Well, most probably happiness was most probably the most obvious sign of success, right? This was not related to material things. Are you happy? Did you have a good day? Are you having a good time with your friends? Do you have a good environment? Happiness, I think, was most probably the best definition of success, right? This is maybe the question that will come up the most. Even when it would come to studying, you know, the question was more, are you happy with your results, than are you the first or second or third in the class.
I guess it's a pretty sound definition of success, in fact.
So, are you successful today?
I'm very successful today.
If you define it by happiness, good. Okay.
Yes, I'm very successful today.
So who first told you or introduced you to science as being a possible track for you?
Yeah. So this also goes back to education. So France has an education system which is based mostly on math and science. So historically, for good or bad reasons, to be very successful in France when you studied, you had to be good in math and in science. And if you were, then you would go basically for a course, sometimes a bit elitist, that would bring you to the best school and therefore the best job. I was good in math, I was good in science. I was also good in literature, and maybe I liked literature better than I did like science and math. But my practical side made me understand very quickly that if I wanted to be successful, then math and science was the path. And for a long time in France, you do really math and science without really understanding what it means for the future. So the connection, for example, to technology, to engineering, to some of the very practical things that I do today happened pretty late, most probably when you are past 20, even 22.
Okay. So then you start to open yourself to what I would call the, the world of the industry, but it, it takes quite a while. And as you do that, I mean, it's, it's a very complex world.
And I still believe that me ending up in this world, in semiconductors, was because I did like physics. So I'm a physicist, but it's also by chance, to be honest.
And the first company I worked for when I left university was Applied Materials. It's also an equipment company, as you know. And I signed a contract without knowing at all what the hell Applied Materials was about. But, you know, they had an office in Israel, they had an office in the United States. So that sounded pretty cool. But there is an element of chance also in all of that. And chance comes together with capability, and then you start to learn. But to be honest, even in this industry, the semiconductor industry, it took me a good 10 years to really understand what it meant for the rest of the world, because that's not something I did learn at school at all. So there is this also, again, continuous learning that came on the way.
Was there any person, place, or event that sort of changed the trajectory of your life?
Well, there have been many, of course, and it starts, of course, you know, with parents, with my, my sisters. They had a huge influence in a very indirect way. I had a chance during my studies to meet a few teachers that really helped me, explained to me what direction I could take. And they mostly don't even know that, but I'm very, very thankful for, for them doing that, because they, they did spend that little moment to explain, maybe that based on what they knew about me, what they had seen, maybe this would make more sense than something else. And that's extremely valuable.
And, you know, I had the chance to have that, of course, also through my career. And I won't give you the, the whole story, but, you know, even in ASML, someone like Martin van den Brink, who used to be our CTO, one of the two presidents before 2024, had a huge impact on what I was doing and what I decided to do. And having those people around you, I think, is, is a real blessing, because you need that at some point in time. And I think having those people versus not having them is making a huge difference in your, in your life, of course, in your career, but I would say in your life more generally.
Okay. How about it? How about experiences that you had growing up that, that you can directly relate back to what kind of leader you are today, because this happened to me or that happened to me?
Yeah. So I believe that, you know, I talked a lot about change, but when it comes to core values, when it comes to core culture, to your core personality, I truly believe you don't change too much over time. And I think if you do, mostly you lose something. So, you know, I talked about simplicity, I talked about happiness, I described a bit maybe the way I used to live, and I think this is still me today. And when I work with the people around me, when, when we do things together, the way we interact, the way we discuss, the way we want to do things together, that model, I think, is still very similar to some of the models I described before.
And I always see it as a family. Of course, it has become a big company, but when you look at the board of management, if you, if you look at the senior executive team, that's still only a few people with whom you can really develop a very, I would say, authentic, very valuable, and very meaningful relationship. And for me, that's very important. You know, people, when it comes to companies, they talk a lot about the CEO. I think the CEO is the least important person in the company. The only role, maybe, of the CEO is to really bring together that kind of team, that kind of environment, so that the company can really thrive. Right? The idea that one man can do it all is an absolute nonsense, because one man, no matter how smart he is, has a certain bandwidth. And if you can multiply these bandwidths by a factor of 10 or 100, then you end up with a company that will be able to take on a lot more things.
And I think this, what I tell you today, is mostly things that came to me very early on, and I'm not deviating, I will say, from those fundamentals today. It doesn't matter how big the company will become. It doesn't matter how much attention we may get. What really matters is that every morning you come, you have a group of people with whom you work that you care about, that you respect, and that you truly believe that, you know, if we're together, we can do great things.
So it sounds like if I was sitting with the 12-year-old Christophe, that I would definitely recognize many things in that kid that [are] the man today.
Yeah. I think a lot of people mostly will tell you that.
