Olympian Gabby Thomas On Building a New Track League | The Deal with Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly

So I want, you know, young athletes, young girls to watch me race in London and in New York and to see a world where women are treated with respect. You know, in the sports landscape where they are celebrated. Um, and, and to see a version of the sport of track and field like this is the norm.

Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here, guys.

Oh, yeah. I mean, that was it was awesome. The Athlos meet is so fun. Uh, it's like something completely never done before in track and field, so it's already just so fun to be there. And I got to be honest with you, like the Tiffany crown that they give us for the prize instead of trophies. It's just so cool that I was like, that was my main motivation for winning that race. So I was like, I cannot leave here without one of these Tiffany crowns.

Well, it doesn't matter how many World Series I would win, I wouldn't look as good as Gabby with her crown.

Yeah, well, first, even before we even talk about Athlos, I think it's important to paint a picture of even just what the landscape of our sport is. And yeah, that will kind of explain why Athlos came to be and how and what the purpose is of it. But basically in our sport now, it is very unstructured. Right, track is a completely individual sport, meaning, you know, you run fast in college or you run fast in high school and then you end up signing with a track and field agent. There's a handful of them, um, that we typically go with. And then you run small meets. If you run fast, you get into bigger meets and the agents take, you know, their percentage of that prize money and that's it. Like that's that's really our sport. There's no salary, there's no real league. It's really just like you eat what you kill. And when we're talking about the prize money and the prize structure in our sport, for most athletes, it's unlivable. Um, it ranges from a couple of thousand dollars per meet to if you win our biggest meets, you get $10,000, and that's if you win. And this is before you are paying your agent, before you are paying for travel and all that. So there's not a lot in it. And then when you win our final championship, our championship, the Diamond League final, um, the prize money was $30,000 and that's again, oh, that's if you win. I think this last year they raised it to $50,000 as a result of outside pressure. Like like Athlos. Um, but that was it. And so with Athlos, and we'll get into this later, we basically took that prize structure of, you know, you win, you get 30,000. I think if you lose or get second you get, um, 15,000. And something like a true Athlos is winning and everything else. Right?

And that's an Athlos. So he said, you know what? Let's just take that prize structure and just double it. Right. And that was the starting point. We'll just take it, double it. And now we have, you know, record-breaking prize purse in track and field history. And that way if you win or compete, you at least have a livable amount of money. I'm talking about the amount of money too. But then if you look at when we're getting paid, that's a whole other conversation too. And that's something that we wanted to work on with Athlos. So in track and field, once you run your competition and you earn your prize money, you have no idea when you're going to see that money. Uh, um, it might show up in your bank account, you know, anywhere from six, eight, nine months later, a year later. No, you don't know what the amount is. It just shows up randomly in your bank account, so I don't know. Truthfully, I don't know how normal that is. Maybe you can speak to that. I don't know if you knew when your checks were coming, when you were, uh, actively playing, but in track and field, we don't know when our checks are coming.

That's that's crazy. By the way, what I just heard, um, I'm saying. But because your checks arrive pretty on time, right, Alex? Yeah, not only on time and in full payment. Uh, yeah. It's that's insane. So. But also, by the way, I think I could say this in a safe space here. Pretty big checks. You got some pretty big checks. Uh, but but here's the thing, Jason. We're no better athletes than track stars, that's for sure. Uh, both men and women are just incredible. And by the way, every Olympics, every four years, I line up. And I'm not necessarily a well-versed track viewer, but I'm an enormous fan of the sport, the hard work, the dedication. I mean, to train for years for 10s is remarkable. So I guess, Gabby, before we get to Athlos, because I know there's what you're trying to solve for, how can such a sport that has so much impact, it has so many eyeballs, you know, have such little reward? Where's the gap? And I know you try to do this with Athlos, but just higher picture.

Yeah, I think first and foremost, it is about the consistency of competition. Like you said, every four years, people do really like to tune in and they want to see the best of the best line up and compete. Track is very easy to understand. There's a clear winner, you get from point A to point B who gets there first. You know who gets there second, who gets there third. It's so simple, yet it's so hard to keep that interest in between Olympic years. And it really is, because there is no incentive for us as athletes to consistently be competing. So this league that I was even talking about before, where you get $10,000 to win the race. If you're a top athlete, top of the sport star, that's not enough to make you get on a plane and fly across the world and go run a race, right? Because now you're risking your reputation if you don't win for $10,000. And it just might not be enough to get you out of bed in the morning. You might have an opportunity for an outside sponsor back in the US, and you can stay and make more money doing that. So there has to be real incentives to get the best of the best athletes on the starting line, competing against one another on a consistent basis. Because how can you maintain a fan base if the fan doesn't know when you're competing, or where? You need something reliable for them to look forward to. They want to know when you're competing. And that's part of the problem. Um, we do have some incentives in the sport where, you know, you can negotiate an appearance fee with the meet director. Um, you can negotiate travel stipends and all that. But again, every meet is a separate entity. It's not like we have a league where they're all aligned, right? Every meet has its own meet director. It's its own entity. So it's an entirely new negotiation every time you want to go compete. It's not an easy, streamlined process. So there's that. There's also the accessibility. If we don't have consistent broadcasting options, if people don't know where to just turn on the TV and watch track and field, you know, why would they? Um, I remember being in college and running track, and I didn't know how to follow track and field, and I wasn't going to take the time to educate myself and learn how to do it and jump through hoops and paywalls to do that. So if I wasn't going to do that as a runner myself, how can I expect the casual fan to want to do that? So I really do think that's kind of a big part of the issue in the larger ecosystem of track and field.

Essentially, yeah. We are. And, you know, I have two thoughts about that. One being, I mean, that's part of, you know, the ethos of Athlos as well as it stands right now. And we'll get into this in a little bit. But I think because we each are our own entity, we're our own independent contractors. And we look at myself personally, I kind of curated my entire team just around myself. Right? I hired my coach, I hired my physio. Um, I joined a training group that I selected. I hired my agents. Right. Everything is just kind of centered around me and my own personal journey with track and field, and that's what my brand is too. So when people are turning on track and field right now, it really is to follow their favorite athletes. That's just kind of the state of the sport. If we're not talking about the Olympics, when people are turning on track and field, it is to watch their favorite individual athlete line up against maybe another individual athlete that they follow or like, and that's why Athlos exists the way it does right now. Um, where we have a model where we are co-owners. We are earning equity when we go compete in these early stages because our personal individual brands are what is building this league. Um, so that is like that's just a very important call-out. And I think in the future of athletics, as we look long-term, there is an interest in shifting that dynamic and shifting that narrative. Um, there's something really special about having the Olympics where it is based on your country and you are competing as part of a team, and that creates so much interest and that creates, um, like a level of loyalty with the fan base. And we want to get to that. I think a really good blueprint for that is NCAA track and field. In the NCAA, you do have a team and it exists. It's already there. And this is something Alexis and I have spoken about privately as well. But that already does exist right now. And why it could be so simple just to take that to the pro level, right? You already have the teams, you already have the point system. You already have the different event groups. Um, so we could do that. You would just have to completely disrupt the sport and rewire everything. So that's going to take some time. But the blueprint's already there.

So Gabby, I like the way you're thinking, but I guess a question, and apologies for the simplicity of this question. You know, most leagues when you think about basketball, football, baseball, one of the biggest barriers to entry in the business is infrastructure, right? But when you think about what you just mentioned about universities, you already have thousands of great tracks out there. If not, you know, hundreds of amazing universities that have these incredible campuses like UT, where you're at in Texas, or Oregon, University of Miami, you name it. Is there a partnership, public, private, where you can bring your company Athlos or others and bring it to a very familiar track, to a very familiar audience that is already built in? They pretty much know all of you because you kind of came through that system. Essentially make the NCAA a minor league for what you're trying to build. I think there's some really good synergies there. Any thoughts there?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's an incredible idea because you're right. The infrastructure is literally there. It's I mean, UT is right next door to me. Um, there's another training group in Florida. They have Florida right over there. And they have distance runners who do training. Oregon, like the facilities, the connections, the resources are all right there. The issue with our sport right now is, and it's a little bit delicate, but it is run so heavily by, uh, shoe companies. And that's kind of, you know, this is actually an interesting topic. I should have started with this. The way that we define being a professional runner is if you were signed by a shoe company, if you were signed by Nike, Adidas, New Balance, which is mine, um, On Running, Asics, whatever have you. And there are training groups throughout the country that are sponsored by that specific shoe company. Um, New Balance has a bunch of distance groups. Nike has sprint training groups and distance groups. Adidas has sprint groups around the country. So you would really you would need to break that up. And right now everybody is so loyal to their own shoe company because that's that's really how you're able to make a living running.

Yeah. That's how you get paid.

That's how you get paid. Straight up paid on the track. You get paid off the track via shoe company. So it's it's disrupting that. And that's where you would have to begin. And even with the college campuses, who are they sponsored by? So it's it's a it's yeah. So Athlos would have to, uh, create an environment where it is worth your while, um, to not worry about that so much.

So, Gabby and Jason, I haven't told you about this, but I have real evidence and data that the running space is just an enormous opportunity for for you and for everyone. As an example, my partner Mark, Lori and I, uh, we back these two young brothers, very talented, very dynamic. Love running like you. Yeah. Um, their name is Nick and Tim West, and the company is called Bandit. Bandit? What I never really understood or can appreciate is this running community. They're like cults. And and you're right at the top of that cult, right?

Well, I I'm just I'm just putting things together and just connecting dots here.

Uh, but you have this incredible, like, Tam, that, you know, these running groups. Now, I understand that like three, four hundred people go run together. My point is, there's so much interest. A lot there. I think your job and Alex, who you have one of the great investors on the planet, and he's really one of the smartest guys around. I think you guys can figure it out. So I'm very bullish on whatever you're going to do.

Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that. It is it's incredible to even think about that. Like you said, the running community, I mean, it starts so young, like even the youth running is so big. At some point, everybody has put on a pair of tennis shoes and gone for a run and and competed, and to to not be able to translate that to the pro level is just I don't know, it's kind of it's shocking to me.

But by the way, I love talking to somebody who's down south because you say tennis shoes instead of sneakers. I love every athletic... There's a tennis shoe. That's right.