Ladies and gentlemen, please keep going with your main course if it's still in front of you, but we're going to press on with the next part of our event here this afternoon. So I'll just give you a moment to head back to your seats if you're not there already.
Thank you very much. Before I invite our guest up to the stage, I just wanted to make a quick mention of our valued charity partner, Miners Promise. I'm sure many of you will be familiar with the work that Miners Promise does, but you may not know what we're up to in terms of the money that we've been able to generate through these events. A portion of the ticket sales for luncheons like this one go to Miners Promise, and so far this year we've managed to raise over $15,000, which is fantastic. And your attendance here today will add a little bit more to that. So it's a partnership we're incredibly proud of and look forward to working with them further in the future.
Please keep your phones out and jump into the online Q&A portal if you haven't already. That's the Slido instructions up there on the screen. That will allow you to submit a question. Hopefully we'll have time towards the end of our chat here today to throw a few of your questions at our guest speaker. So just point your phone at that QR code there and that will take you straight to the session.
So our guest this afternoon, Dale Henderson. You might like to know that under his leadership, PLS has been able to solidify its position as a tier one large-scale operator and global lithium producer. Dale joined PLS back in 2017 as Chief Operating Officer. He's been instrumental in the company's transformation from an emerging developer to one of Australia's leading mining companies. His strategic vision and operational expertise have driven the company's elevation to the ASX 100 and the establishment of the Pilgangoora operation as the world's largest independent hard rock lithium operation.
As Managing Director and CEO, Dale has delivered significant growth and global expansion, including the strategic acquisition and development of the Grota do Cirilo project in Brazil. He's also advanced PLS's value chain strategy through the company's downstream chemical joint venture with POSCO in South Korea and midstream initiatives, broadening PLS's participation across the value chain and strengthening the company's position as a globally integrated lithium supplier. So, as you welcome Dale up to the stage, we have a short video to show you. As Dale makes his way up here, please turn your attention to the screens.
Thank you, Dale. Great to see some of the things you've got operating at the moment in PLS and in Pilgangoora and beyond. As I was doing my deep dive, I must say, into PLS, it was quite a shock to hear that it's only really been going a fairly short space of time, hasn't it? So much has happened in the 11 or so years since PLS began. So let's talk a little bit about the PLS story. Take us back to 2014 when this thing first emerged.
Yeah, sure. So PLS is just an amazing homegrown WA success story and one of those ones founded by geos. So five geos who all went to uni together in the 80s, the WA Institute of Technology. They got together again 20 years later, around 2013, acquired the asset on the hunt for tantalite, and little did they know that at that time lithium was starting to take off. It was really the start of lithium batteries actually really starting to come forward, because at that point lithium was all about ceramics, medicine and lubricants, believe it or not, right? So a bit of luck but a lot of hard work, and really that founding five geos really teed off and got it started. Obviously a bunch more people came in and it's been this sort of incredibly volatile market, highs and lows, but yeah, here we are today, a scale operator, independent, proudly homegrown. So pretty remarkable.
And by the way, those geos — one of them still works for us, John Holmes, or employee number one, as he reminds us. He's here today. John, our employee.
Well done, John. Well done, mate. And just while we're teeing off on the backstory, it's all been made possible because of WA. I mean, you know, when I reflect on the fledgling that we were, it was brought into existence because of the contractors, the designers, the operators, the supportive territory that we have here. Our Indigenous owners, NYAMAL — there's a lot of groups who brought this to life. So, yeah, it truly is a state-driven story.
Yeah. Did the five geos have any idea what they'd stumbled upon back at that time?
No. I think I can say no. John wasn't — as I say, they were chasing tantalite. They secured the assets around 2013. They went to the world's lithium conference at that time in 2015. It was attended by about 150 people and that's where they heard for the first time the lithium industry talk about, gee, there's this thing called the lithium battery. And these were the ceramics buyers, they were saying, gee, we're a bit worried about this, these battery guys might really mess up our market. And that's where John Young and Neil Biddle and the whole team said, we're on to something.
And they were — I found it absolutely fascinating to hear that the market was ultimately driven by ceramics and glass demand for it again a relatively short time ago. We're talking sort of, you know, in the middle of last decade. Did you have any idea at that time that the demand drivers were going to change so dramatically, you know, again in a very short space of time, just a couple of years down the track?
Yeah, look, I think it surprised everyone, and certainly by the time I started, we all believed conceptually about what was possible. But as the market sort of found its feet, it's had some false starts. We had a price rally in 2018 followed by what I call our lithium winter number one, which for us was a real fight for survival. But really post-COVID it was a whole new era where EV adoption went mainstream, batteries for power has become very much mainstream particularly of late, and it's really started to take off. So it has been a surprise.
Yeah. 2017, you first started with the company. What are your memories of first walking into the PLS office in 2017 when, as you say, it was a fledgling operator?
Yeah. So we had some humble offices on Colin Street, West Perth, which, as the story goes, was a big upgrade from Freo where there was surfboards and whatnot. But yeah, humble offices in West Perth and, you know, befitting of a company with no money and $100 million US debt and a bold dream.
Fast forward now to 2025. Give us a snapshot of where PLS is now at.
Yeah. Well, it's been an extraordinary journey as a function of a company rising to serve this incredible growth industry. And PLS is really a manifestation of serving that demand. And being a young industry, it's been volatile, growing from a small base. So we've seen it all. The false start I sort of mentioned, the 2018 rally which precipitated the first price crunch, which by the way was also heavily impacted by EV subsidies in China being pulled away because at that point the demand was China-centric. Fast forward post-COVID, global stimulus, EVs, and the want of many countries looking to foster future-facing industries that really ignited a demand rush and has catalyzed a global build-out of demand. And here we are, and PLS has rode that journey, the highs, the lows, and here we are today.
There's constant commentary around the appetite for electric vehicles. You know, some of it pointing to a slowdown, that the initial wave of interest has now subsided. I suppose you're at the pointing end of that demand, aren't you? I mean, what does your data tell you about EVs currently and the trajectory that demand is on?
Sure, Tim. There is no slowdown. It is...
Which goes quite against a lot of what you see and what you read, doesn't it?
That's right. So the recent EV data remains really strong. So the last reporting period it was still a 20% increase year on year, which is pretty remarkable that that's being maintained. Why you sometimes hear of EVs are dying or so on and so forth is principally from the US, and because we have seen pullback through the US, and that's no surprise given the growing pains of the auto industry there. And the US sort of headlines block out the sky, but the reality is demand from the US is a small part of the demand set, approximately 10%. Yes, it's the world's second biggest auto market, it's really important, but right now it's not that relevant, frankly, to the global demand.
Okay. And yet lithium is very much front and center now of global conversations, geopolitical conversations, debates around decarbonization. You know, Donald Trump's talking about lithium. These days there seems to be a lot of noise around the sector and around PLS as well as you as the CEO. How do you go sort of navigating your way through all of that noise and finding yourself suddenly really in the spotlight?
Yeah. No, it's good fun. Tiring, and there's never a dull moment. And look, I just put it down to the fact that we've got this incredible situation where we're a scale operator serving a really strong growth market, but it just happens to be at the toe of multiple new industries stepping forward, and it's just changing all the time. So you've got these strong growth demands which we touched on, the EVs and mass energy storage, but separate to that, globally there's this race around supply chain security, and that's been particularly heightened of late around critical minerals, which is a broad umbrella that many, many countries want their own secure supply chain for critical minerals, of which lithium's one. But I think top of the pack there is really some of the rare earths. There's a link there to defense, there's a link there to some of the computer tech. So there's been a real urgency around that, and you're seeing that in the headlines with the US and Australia. Last week we were in Korea, it was all the talk. And I think there's just more of that to come, as I say, as countries look to secure up their supply chains.
And you find yourself pretty high up on the invitation list for world events.
It's been a bit that way, yeah.
So how close have you come to, you know, sharing the same room as world leaders?
I mean, would you like to though? Or do you welcome that, being part of, you know, the news cycle and being part of the buzzwords of the day? Or would you prefer just to go and do your own thing and just sail through, dig it up, ship it off, meet your numbers?
Well, it'd have to be a bit of fun, wouldn't it, to meet some of the world leaders. Last week we were at APEC, and yeah, we were in the auditorium that Trump showed up in. We happened to be driving there on the way. He showed up in the morning and we were there in the afternoon. That's as close as we've got. But look, happy to take an invite.
Yeah. Okay. You stepped into the CEO role in 2022. I think at that time, you know, the lithium price was five or six times what it is now. Did you have any idea at that point in 2022 that the price was going to fall off a cliff?
Intuitively, we expected it to, but we hoped it wouldn't. And yeah, it was a remarkable price rally, and I put that — and it surprised everyone — I put that down to just this combination of strong growth drivers and just an absence of supply plus an immature market, and it precipitated this incredible price rally. By the way, we helped fuel that. We had our own sort of eBay for product sales called BMX. So we enjoyed that. We helped sort of inflate that pricing, and as night follows day, and you see this time and time again in mining, sure enough the cycle turned and the next lithium winter bit in.
Yeah. I've read some comments of yours around that time when you were talking about setting up an exchange platform, if you like, to get a fairer price for your products. Did you ever seriously entertain actually literally selling your lithium or your spodumene on eBay? Like, was that a serious thing? I mean, how do you even — what do you put in the title?
But we thought it's probably not a great look.
How would you have tagged that on the screen?
And then how many tons you want to buy? Just fill out the form.
No, it did cross our mind and we thought, yeah, we could probably find another way. Sure enough, we did. We did talk to a number of platforms globally. There's a group called Global Coal who does the coal sales and, wouldn't surprise you, they're keen to diversify. We chatted to them. We chatted to the iron ore guys and a few others. But the group we partnered with — this is another WA group — being GLX, and they had built a platform for LNG. It was really slick, really good. We adopted that and that's what we got started on. But you're giving me flashbacks to our first auction at West Perth, the old offices, and we broke $1,000 a ton, which was a really big deal. We booted in and it was just the most incredible time. We had no idea that in the months which would follow we would exceed $8,000 a ton. So yeah, remarkable period.
Yeah. What have the last few years been like? You must have had a few sleepless nights navigating your way through massive price falls and a time when some of your competitors in the market were also having to consider scaling back operations, even shutting down mines. There was no sign that the price was going to suddenly recover. What was it like for you on a personal level?
Oh, yeah. Incredibly tough period. You know, that period pre-COVID was without question the most brutal, and this was before the price rally I mentioned. And I got TK here, Tony Kinnear, the chairman at the time, who was integral to navigating that period along with the rest of the board and the management team. But that period was formative in terms of instilling, I guess, lessons and the approach we wanted to take. So fast forward to that period of wonderful prosperity and bountiful fruits, we were determined not to waste that. And what that meant practically was hanging on to our cash, investing in getting stronger and lower cost, and being deliberate about our supply chain partnerships, and really reinforcing the business as best possible in the expectation of a tougher price environment, which unfortunately is exactly what occurred. But those decisions put us in good stead and, yeah, I feel we've positioned the business really well, and we still had enough capacity to get on and do some acquisitions and some investments during this part of the cycle, which is brilliant. So I think today we're incredibly well placed. We've got a bigger ship, if you will. We're out on the water, sales are up, and we're ready to go for the next rally.
Yeah. I mean, as I say, when others were burning through their cash, you went and spent over half a billion on a mine in Brazil. You went quite against the grain at the time. Can you give us some insight into the conversations around the boardroom table? You're seeing others, you know, going in a different direction. You're proposing that we go and spend 560 mil on an operation in Brazil. How do those conversations go? And at some point, I suppose, you had to sort of stare the future in the eye, didn't you? And back yourself.
That's it. And importantly, the team — the directors, management combined — yeah, we all had to circle, you know, do we want to do this, because we didn't need to. But just sort of to rewind back the clock, calendar year 23, there was a lot of lithium purchases locally, there was a lot going on. We sort of stayed out of that. But as we went into calendar year 24, price was still declining and there was a period of about nine months where there had been no lithium transactions. And yeah, we broke that silence, did that transaction, and yeah, the cross-examination around that was intense, as you'd expect, because we didn't need to do it. But when we scrutinized the prospects of that, it just all stacked up. Great asset, great location, and delighted we've done it.
So the investment is paying off?
It's looking good so far. Ultimately the proof is in the pudding once we've built the place and got it operating, etc., etc. So that'll take a few years. But so far, so good. No buyer's remorse. And if anything, we've become more excited about the purchase. And one of the really nice side benefits, which I certainly underestimated, was just the impact for community. This particular mine is adjacent to a very small town called Salinas. It's very poor, it's very impoverished, even though it's within a very successful mining state, being Minas Gerais. It's a poor area, and this mine and the prospect of this mine means the world to them. So that's really neat. So we kind of knew this conceptually, but when you get on the ground and you hear from the team and some of the locals who are working for us, they are so excited and so happy we're there. It's really powerful.
And what's it been like operating in Brazil now compared to WA? How do you compare and contrast the two?
Well, it's early days for us in that the transaction only finalized in March. Look, I think there's a lot of similarities. I mean, Minas Gerais, which is the name of the state, actually means general mining. So that's actually the name of the state, because it's resource-rich, it is a mining state much like WA. So they have got the best-in-class mining in terms of service providers and gear and know-how that is there, and they are a world-class mining jurisdiction. So there's some common ground there. I think there's some common ground in terms of the spirit by which they want to get things done. I think that's been a happy, happy coincidence to see that. The differences are, they are incredibly family orientated. They're very, very close as a team. That's been a really nice thing to find out. Yeah, but there's a lot ahead of us. We're just doing more drilling. There's a project to be built. There's a lot more to come.
I guess if I distill that question down, is it easier to get stuff done in Brazil than it is in WA?
Oh gee, I'd have to say so far, yes.
So far, yes. Okay. Well, let's talk about the policy settings that you have to work within here in Australia. How are you finding it at the moment? We hear constant commentary around just the burden of regulation here in Western Australia, in Australia, on many different levels. But how do you find it navigating your way through it at PLS, you know, getting approvals for what you want to do? How would you describe it?
Well, we would join the chorus of many others who say that it's got more difficult and more protracted. I think that is definitely the case. And of course there's plenty of effort through the likes of CME — shout out to Aaron — who are advocating to government on ways to streamline whilst also maintaining the very high standards that Australia, in particular WA, is respected for. But more improvements are required, and we've got to keep focused on the fact that we've got to be globally competitive. This state and Australia at large has been, you know, leading the world in resourcing. It really has, but we can lose that mantle. And I think unless we continue to get better and better in all aspects, we will lose that. And in the case of lithium, it's a bit of a case in point: in the last sort of three years our market share has shrunk relative to the world. Although we've grown, others are growing faster.
You mean WA's, or you mean...?
I'm talking Australia. No, Australia-wide lithium contribution — we had more market share three years ago than we do today, but relatively we're regressing relative to the rest. And if we don't have a successful upstream, we certainly can't have a successful downstream, because one leads to the other.
Do you welcome the sorts of interventions we're seeing at the moment, like the critical minerals stockpile? Is that a good idea?
In our view, the best role for government is to invest in shared infrastructure. So investing on the cost side of the equation, because if you can invest in shared infrastructure — port and power — you can almost permanently lower the cost base for all, that makes us more competitive long term. On the revenue side, if you look to do price support, which has been floated, the challenge there — although that could be very beneficial and we'll take it — the challenge is you might inadvertently support the wrong projects, which would be a waste of taxpayers' money.
Okay. So where should they, in terms of PLS specifically — well, round of applause out there, that would go well. Where would you rather see them invest that might smooth the way for PLS?
Oh, PLS — that could just be shareholders.
You got it. Now you talk about shared infrastructure. Is there anything in particular you'd like to see?
Yeah. So locally for us it's about finishing off Lumsden Point, which is the government's part-completed. So that's a no-brainer. Then after that it is power infrastructure. Those would be really the two key areas.
Yeah. We hear a lot about just the cost of energy at the moment and how much of a handbrake that is on development in the sector. Is that applicable to you as well?
It is. It very much is. And to put it in perspective, our asset in Brazil, power costs are something like 4 to 5 cents per kilowatt, hydropower. And at Pilgangoora, depending on your power source, it could be anywhere from 10 cents per kilowatt to 20 cents per kilowatt plus if you're on diesel. So, you know, mining is obviously energy intensive. That's a key strategic advantage for other countries with lower-cost power. Now, we should have low-cost power. We've got the space, we've got solar, wind, you name it. I think that's a key place for government to play, is to leverage the incredible strengths we've got to bring that cost of power down.
