Hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining us here on Lemon Live at 5, 5:00 here on the East Coast in New York City. And welcome. We want you to hit the like and the thumbs up. It affects the algorithm. More people become aware of our conversation and our channel. We are at Adweek and we are on the move as usual, trying to make this platform and community bigger and grow the way that you want it to grow. And we are following major, major new developments in the death of 18-year-old Nolan Wells. Nolan's family spoke out just a short while ago and made it very clear that they are not going away. They're not going anywhere. And they said they do not consider this case closed. As a matter of fact, they want the case reopened. Today, his mother and father stood alongside Benjamin Crump, the attorney, and renewed their demand for a federal investigation into what happened to their son. And they now have members of Congress joining that call as well. Lawmakers have asked the US National Park Service to open what they describe as a prompt and exhaustive investigation into Nolan Wells' death, including examining every circumstance and pursuing every available lead, they say. And remember, Nolan disappeared on the 4th of July on a boating trip to Horn Island in Mississippi. His body was found in the water two days later. Let's discuss now with another organization that has been following the story from the very beginning and breaking news on it, and that's Charles from TMZ. And Charles, you've been working closely on this case since the very beginning, as have we. When you saw the press conference today, what did you think? They made it very clear they don't think that this is done.
Well, I'll say this. First thing I thought was this isn't new. I've heard this call from Nolan's family before. A few weeks back in August in Atlanta, they made this same call and they held a news conference. I cannot remember, there was a member of Congress, can't remember her name, but there was a member of Congress who was there and was sounding the alarm saying that the feds should be investigating Nolan's death because he was found on federal land. Horn Island is federal land. And I remember when they said it in August, I thought that completely makes sense and this is a good, good thing that they're doing and that someone in DC will get to someone in the FBI and they'll start an investigation. Here we are two months later and it has not happened. So, I think they are trying to grab the bullhorn and yell this from every mountaintop until they get an answer one way or another from the FBI as to whether or not they're going to investigate. On its face, Don, it seems to me to make sense. If a crime is committed on federal land, generally there's a federal agency that leads the investigation. To the best of our knowledge, to anyone's knowledge publicly, that hasn't happened.
Well, it's interesting because if I, you know, I'm just looking at my notes from the FBI here. Our correspondent who's going to join us in just a minute, Daniel Grimes, says that the FBI says that, I believe that the FBI said that they were involved and there's no evidence to indicate any sort of foul play. And so, as far as they're concerned, there's nothing else to investigate. Now, the family is saying they also want not just the federal investigation, but that would be separate from the local Mississippi investigation, the state investigation, and they say that they want that investigation reopened as well.
Yeah, I mean, there certainly the family has not been happy with the course of the investigation as far as the local authorities there in Jackson County. They've been very critical of the sheriff. They've been very critical of the DA. And they want, and I get it. Like, you know, at the end of the day, the DA can come out and say, 'Look, this is what the autopsy says, and we went to a grand jury.' And the thing I never heard from the DA, and I've yet to hear anything from the sheriff. And it's sort of like if the sheriff isn't going to speak because it's an open investigation, then say that. But if the investigation's over, which is what the DA made it sound like, then the sheriff should be speaking out about what they found or what they didn't find or who they spoke to. That's generally what happens when an investigation's closed. Then you can talk about those things. But the family, I think, has questions because I don't think they know anything more than we do as far as what the local authorities have done. And which is why you have them saying, 'We're done asking them. They're not getting us any of the answers we want, that we need, that we deserve. So, let's try the feds.'
Well, one would wonder, Charles, where to go from here if you have folks whose sources are from higher up and you have the folks in Mississippi saying, 'Hey, this is a done deal.' I mean, how much further can they press and is there actually any opportunity or any way that they would even consider reopening the case? They're saying this is it. This is it.
I don't necessarily believe that. I'm just saying that's what authorities are saying.
Yeah. And the fact that they're saying that clearly wouldn't sit well with his parents.
I mean, the only people that would seem satisfied by the investigation as we've seen it to this point would be the family members of Nolan's friends, because it felt like the grand jury was assembled, was convened more to disprove any allegations against Nolan's friends. And yeah, maybe they were successful at that, but where's the justice for Nolan's family if they don't get any answers? And I still just say, Don, you know, and again, we don't know. We've been trying to get the sheriff to say anything. But who did they speak to? Who did they speak to who was on Horn Island that day? How many people did they interview? How many pieces of video did they look at? I've always gone back to this, and I would think that the police feel this way, the sheriff's department feels this way also. If there were hundreds of people on Horn Island on July 4th, how did nobody see something that points toward the last moment Nolan Wells was seen? Somebody had to have seen Nolan at some point. And if you haven't found that person, then your investigation feels incomplete. Who was the last person to see him? And at what time? And what condition was he in? Where was he? All of those things I would think you have to answer. And again, the sheriff isn't speaking. So maybe they have some of those answers and they're still tracking it down. But everything we've heard from the local authorities makes it seem like, you know, we've checked this out and there's no cause of death determined, so we can't do anything. And that's clearly very dissatisfying, not just to Nolan's family, obviously would be to them, but to everyone else who's been watching this case unfold.
You bring up a very, I think, astute point because that's a question that we have been asking from the very beginning, even though, you know, they said they've cleared everyone, there's no foul play, that they believe they've questioned everyone. But the thing is, is like with all of these people there on such a small place, and, you know, if you listen to the folks who go to Horn Island, they say, well, there's no way that people couldn't see, or if something happened to them, everybody would see, but then nobody saw anything.
Right. Everyone says, yeah, we're there. Everyone sees anything, but nobody saw anything.
We keep going round and round to the same question that nobody really saw anything. And the question is, I saw him here. I saw him at this point. I saw him at this time. But did anybody see the last moments? And if not, why did nobody see the last moments? Right? What is the timeline?
And then to go back, and again, the thing that makes this case so hard, I think, to be fair to law enforcement, there's nothing out there. There's no infrastructure to support their investigation. Like normally in cases like this, there's someone's Ring camera or there's CCTV, some infrastructure that can help in their investigation. There's nothing out there, just sand. There's just a sandbar surrounded by water, and there are no facilities or any infrastructure that could help with the investigation. So, they're relying strictly on the witnesses. And I just, you know, I think maybe Nolan's family would feel a little better. I know I would, just as an observer, if I heard from law enforcement that we spoke to 85 people, we spoke to this many people. Here's the last time someone saw him. It was in this place. If you put those pieces together, I think the public starts to feel like you've done a complete investigation. But without all of that, you have the public dissatisfied. You have Nolan's family and Ben Crump holding news conferences saying, 'Get someone else on this case.' And I can't blame them. I don't know that the feds would do any better because they would run into the same thing, right, of there's no infrastructure. There's no video to back it up, and they too would have to just get witnesses. But, you know, somebody's got to give the family some reason to believe that there's a complete investigation that's been done.
I mean, how long have we been covering this? Right. Since the very beginning, and still we keep arriving back to the same questions and answers as we did in the beginning. And it's, look, I think it's obvious why the family doesn't trust the process, because look at what happened in the beginning. You mentioned the sheriff. The sheriff came out right away and said, 'Oh, we don't believe there's any foul play.' And so people are going to say, 'Well, indeed, now what you're doing is you're trying to make good on what you said from the very beginning. How are we to trust this?' So you can understand why the family doesn't trust the investigation that's already been done.
This is so true. Don, we were talking about this kind of thing today related to another case, the Cornell sexual assault. That's another one where when you have public officials who are in law enforcement, when they speak out about a case that is not solved, that has suspicion of foul play, when they speak out, it's bad. They just can't do that. And in Cornell, you know, this is what people are saying about Letitia James, that, you know, she's the attorney general who put out this tweet saying, 'I completely support Jane Doe and she's gone through so much and we stand with you.' I get from a personal standpoint why Letitia James would feel like she's got to say that, but now she's been appointed the special prosecutor. So you just, one way or the other, you can't have public officials who are investigating, who are in law enforcement speaking out. And you're right, the sheriff saying that, you know, in the first week, I believe it was after Nolan's disappearance, after he was found, that's bad. It's just bad for appearances and potentially it's bad in actuality depending on what's happening in the investigation. But it certainly gives people this feeling of, are you really doing a complete investigation?
Yeah. And speaking of when you think about even the autopsies, because there have been several in this particular case. Well, look, in the other case that you were talking about, there was a lot of information that was left out of the initial investigation, and that gives pause to people about whether that's a fair investigation or an investigation that people can have any sort of trust or faith in. But in this one, you've got the manner and the cause of death still undetermined. And then you have them again not knowing with the injuries that are to the back of his head that are unexplained. So there's still that air of mystery that I'm not sure, as I've said before, Charles, I'm not sure if I've said this with you. I don't know if they will ever get, or we the public, or if the family will ever get the answers that they want. I just think, you know, maybe they'll say they don't know, or maybe perhaps in years somebody will come up with some explanation, or someone will come forward who has seen something. But right now, with the undetermined for both the cause and the manner, and then the unexplained bruises on the back of his head, I just don't know. I don't know if we'll ever really know at this point we have now.
And I agree with you. I think they're not going to know unless someone comes forward to say, 'I saw X, Y, or Z.' It's going to take those, it's going to take an eyewitness because that's all that there is out there. There's nothing else, no other way to find evidence out there. It's got to be a witness. And if nobody comes forward, and what really is, I think, upsetting, and this is what is unsettling on a lot of different levels, we are in Mississippi. There are historical layers to this that people think about, but if no one is coming forward, then you have to ask, why aren't they coming forward? And it just, it's a very unsettling place to be. And I think that's where a lot of people are when they look at this. I can't speak for Nolan's family if that's what they're thinking, but, you know, the fact that they are still out there doing news conferences all over the country, trying to keep this case in the spotlight, I think that tells you right there that they have that same feeling that nobody is saying, somebody has to have seen something and they're not saying it, and so they keep shouting from the mountaintops. We'll see. I suspect we're going to hear something from the FBI, like some reason why there's no investigation to be done, but it's definitely not going to be satisfying if their response is, 'Well, the locals have already investigated, so we don't have to.'
Yeah. Charles from TMZ. Charles, thank you for appearing. We appreciate it. We know that you're very busy. We should talk about the Cornell case as well soon when you... That one's going to be around for a while. We'll definitely be able to talk about that one. Thank you, Charles. Appreciate it.
I want to bring in our correspondent now, Daniel Grimes, who has been following this as well. Daniel, thank you for joining us. Look, I know that you've been speaking to sources. I know that you paid attention. You were following the press conference. And there's still some very serious questions about what happened to Nolan Wells, and the family is now saying again, re-upping their call for a federal investigation, and basically saying that they want this case opened back up. So, where are we now with this?
Well, Don, I'm going to start with the news that you broke at the top of this, which I think is huge, and I want to make sure folks don't miss. It's that the FBI responded to me, or a source on background at the FBI told me, listen, we were involved in this investigation, and we agree with the assessment that there was no foul play when it comes to this case. So, case closed. Now, I followed up. I have not gotten a response. Let me just double check now. Nope, still no response. But I followed up to say, okay, well, Ben Crump and Nolan's family's attorneys say, well, they're pointing to the back of Nolan's head and contusions on the back of Nolan's head to say there may have been foul play here. They're also, in that press conference, Ben Crump reminded folks who have come to the conclusion now, Don, that there was a dry drowning, which is a real thing. I know a lot of people, when they've heard people say dry drowning, what is that? That's not real. It is a real thing. But my understanding is that even if you die of dry drowning, there needs to be some evidence of water present somewhere in the throat or the lungs. And Ben Crump said during that presser today, there was no evidence of any water in Nolan's throat or his lungs. And again, even the independent autopsy, the independent investigator who conducted that autopsy and the Mississippi forensics investigator, they both have said this was an undetermined cause of death. They have not drawn the conclusion that it was a drowning, even though I have seen that out there that people are drawing that conclusion. So, I want to make that note clear. But I also want to say that I want to remind folks the FBI did participate in the early days of this investigation. We reported on it, Don. The FBI, remember, we were skeptical that Kash Patel's FBI would actually be serious. But remember, they helped with that forensic evidence in the early days after Nolan was found on Horn Island because Horn Island is a federal island and it's federal land. So, they did participate with the local authorities. The chief sheriff, John Ledbetter, asked for help and the FBI came and looked at the digital evidence. What they didn't do, two things. One, they didn't look at Nolan's cell phone. Remember, the family had possession of Nolan's cell phone. The FBI never looked at it. Number two, there hasn't been an independent investigation conducted by the FBI. They just simply came in, they helped local authorities with some digital forensics evidence, and then they said, 'All right, we agree with your conclusion that there was no foul play here,' but they didn't conduct their own independent investigation. And that is what the family is calling for. So, I followed up to say, 'Wait a minute. What about the contusions on the back of his head?' I have not gotten a response, but obviously I'll bring it to you and our viewers if I do while we're here.
Daniel, I want to play this for you. This is the family at the press conference, and then we'll respond afterwards. Here it is.
But also that the authorities do their job. Treat him as if this were your child, your niece, your nephew, whatever you need to do to give us an honest and thorough investigation. That's it. That is all we want. We have not blamed anyone. We have not tried to cause a division. That was never our intent, and it was not us. It was not our legal team. Unfortunately, it's just the way it happened. So, I ask that you all please just continue to uplift us in prayer. Continue to say his name.
