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So, you never opened a math book at the Ravens facility.
And because you're busy doing football.
A lot of us spend our lives trying to find the one big thing we're really good at. John Urschel had a slightly different problem. He turned out to be world-class at two things, two very different things: football and math. One path led to the NFL, the other to MIT. Eventually, he had to make a choice.
I am the son of a pretty good college football player.
Yes, my dad. Yeah. Who also became a thoracic surgeon. Yes, and not only did he become a thoracic surgeon, while in college, playing college football, he was in medical school. Some of these universities have these programs where, you know, they really accelerate people to med school. You know, you do two years and then straight into med school. He did exactly this.
Where did he play football and go to med school?
Canadian. I'm Canadian. Yeah. So, my mom and dad had me. I was born in Canada.
They moved to Buffalo for my dad's work. And then eventually, my dad moved back to Canada.
Got it. And you stayed in Buffalo with your...
Buffalo. But I would visit my dad all the time and, you know, he's working as a thoracic surgeon. He's, you know, a really busy person. He would pick me up. He would take me to the hospital. He would do his rounds. He would let me, like, look around on his computer. And then after he would do his rounds, he would take me to the local Chapters.
And he would be in the cafe. He would just be working.
You're how old at this point?
What are you reading? What are you doing?
I'm looking at all different types of books. I'm just sitting and reading books, exploring, and I find myself just mostly hanging out in the math section. And I'm just opening up things and picking up things that I have no business picking up.
Did that strike you as unusual?
No, it was fun. I don't know, you know, I'm here four or five hours every second Saturday. Like, I am in elementary school, but this is fun.
And I know you liked puzzles from the time you were very young.
Right, so this is the other section I would spend a lot of time in is the puzzle section.
Yeah. You know, we asked you to bring something for show and tell. You brought this book.
The Big Book of Tell Me Why. So this is something my mom bought for me or...
I noticed there's like a big footprint here and coffee stains there. Is that your mom or your dad? Or do you think that's you?
No, so this is because this would go in the trunk. And so, you know...
Just so that you'd always have it with you when you're...
Well, around, let's say, third grade...
So my mom is working as an attorney.
And she has a lot of night court. She went to law school very late in life.
And my grandmother had died the year before. So we're without childcare. So now she's taking me places.
So she has night court, and she doesn't think I'm quite old enough to stay at home. Well, she did leave me at home a bit, but I don't think it went too well.
Were you lighting fires, things like that?
No, just like a little bit of chaos. Like, you know, maybe like the bathtub gets too full, you know, things like this. And so she would always have this in the trunk. And then she would just sit me in the last row of the courtroom.
And she would just give me the book. There for hours, I would look at this. Sometimes I would do puzzle books, but this was like the stalwart.
Maybe look through the book and tell me a couple things that you recall being intriguing to you.
Right. Yes. So chapter five, how things are made.
And that was one I really liked. A striking one, it must be in here somewhere, is how does a mirror work?
So it's all about light and reflections and angle of reflection and angle of incidence.
And did that feel like math to you as a kid?
No, it just felt really cool. I never viewed the things I really liked — this is going to sound very strange — as explicitly math until I got to college.
I loved football. And when I was a kid, my dream was to be an offensive lineman in the Big Ten.
Like I grew up watching Jake Long and I wanted to be the left tackle for Michigan.
Because, okay, I played tackle in high school and, you know, there's a star system coming out of high school. I was a two-star recruit. The scale was out of five.
And so I'm like two out of five. So somehow being an all-Big Ten, All-American offensive lineman at Penn State, this is just like a dream come true.
But you chose to go to a football school rather than — you had a chance to go to Stanford, but you'd already committed to Penn State, is that right?
Exactly. And at the time...
And your mom wanted that.
My mom wanted me to go to Stanford. And at the time, I had like this very strong sense of honor. Which...
You don't have it anymore, you're saying?
I think it was probably misplaced.
Like I'm not sure it was deserved, but at the time I had this really strong sense of, you know, like...
Meaning I've committed to Penn State.
Committed to Penn State. I'm sorry, you know, John Harbaugh calls me to come visit Stanford.
And, you know, for me, I say, you know, I'm sorry, coach. I've already committed to Penn State.
And he says, oh, that's okay. You can still just come and, you know, see how things are. And I say, no, coach, you know, I've really already committed. I've given my word, like, you know...
Paterno was your coach for your first year or two?
First three years. Okay. And then he's gone. And then what's the program like in your fourth year as you're a senior there?
Turned out to be a really good coach.
Turned out to be a really good coach, although he's suffering quite badly at Boston College right now. Although I think it's hard to win there, especially in the current NIL.
So, NIL is name, image, likeness, which is the way for college athletes now to get paid, essentially, right? Yeah.
I remember when I played, you could not make a dime.
You couldn't take a free hamburger.
Take a free hamburger. And really at Penn State, they were really honest about this. I mean, Paterno was very, very serious about this. And so, this was legitimate.
And so, when you're in that environment where you can't take — does it feel like you're in a — not like a religious order or the military, but like what does it feel like to be that constricted?
It's — I mean, it's a touch strict, and I think it was too strict before. I mean, for instance, you know, I was at Penn State and not that I have any complaints about it, but I remember like, you know, my face is on like banners downtown. I'm doing all these things. There's other players whose jerseys — I mean, my jersey didn't sell so well. I'm an offensive lineman. But there are other players whose jerseys are just, you know...
Everywhere. And, you know, we are not — you're not making a single cent out of — not even like some money towards a 401k or something. You know what I mean? So, name, image, and likeness, objectively a good thing that players can make a little bit of money off of their...
When you started playing at Penn State, let's say, did you think you had a pretty decent chance to make the NFL?
No, I thought I had no chance. No chance.
When did you start to think you had a chance?
My junior year, I'm playing well. I'm an all-Big Ten offensive lineman at the time as a junior. And my coach, you know, sort of meets me after the season, my position coach, and sort of, you know, says, you know, you're coming back another year.
Not please, but sort of like, I don't want you thinking any crazy stuff. You're coming back another year.
Crazy stuff like declaring for the draft.
Declaring early. As a joke. Like I don't even want you to think about anything crazy. And to be honest, I wasn't really thinking about the NFL at all.
And so it wasn't until like, you know, this conversation, which was kind of a joke in passing.
Like right at the end of the season. Did that give you more confidence then for your final year? The fact that he assumed that you were bound for the NFL?
Not confidence, but I would say like this idea that this is something that is about to happen if I want it to happen.
And then he would say things in practice like, you know, oh, they're going to — you know, I do something and he'd say, oh, they're going to love that in the league.
And I would just say, oh, okay.
During his last year at Penn State, Urschel interviewed with nearly all of the NFL's 32 teams. Some teams knew he was a math major and serious student, some didn't. His math talent gave him options outside of football, but when the Baltimore Ravens chose Urschel in the fifth round of the NFL draft, Urschel chose football.
Can I just say, I think most people don't understand that most linemen, offensive and defensive...
It's an arms race. It's a weight race. You have to put on a lot, a lot, a lot of pounds in order to succeed.
So what was your peak weight in the NFL?
My heaviest period, there was a time where I was 320.
And how were you expected to do that? Just by eating and working out or no?
Working out doesn't help you...
Well, I mean, what us amateurs are told is that muscle...
That's true, but somehow, you know, things in the NFL are already so optimized. You know, so...
So there's a diminishing return to it?
Yes, exactly. So the point is I'm already, you know, let's say in the offseason, I'm already working out, you know, one to two times a day.
Okay. An hour to two maybe?
Two to three. Yeah, yeah.
And how intense is the workout?
I'm doing deadlifts, I'm doing squats, I'm doing bench, I'm doing, you know...
I don't know. I usually don't max out. Like, so somehow in college, this is something that happens, you know, a lot. You try to see like how much weight you can lift. In the league, there's just no point in this. Like, there's no point to do like a one-rep max. So, I think in college, you know, like I've lifted 405 before, like in college.
Oh, you could lift like two and a half of me.
Well, to be clear, so this will give you a good sense. When I was at the combine, everyone tries to bench press 225 lbs...
As many times as they can.
So, that's the sense, but, you know.
Wow. I think I've conflated your intelligence with your athleticism a little bit.
So, my job is hitting people.
And so, you're supposed to be very big.
Is hitting really fun when you're that big?
Yeah, yeah, it was fun. I had a lot of fun.
Yeah. I mean, was that the funnest part of football for you, is getting to — I mean, it's...
I mean, it's the only part of football for me.
Well, no, if you're — but if you're a wide receiver...
For me, it's the only part.
What do you love about hitting?
It's sort of nice. Like, you know, you imagine you're...
No, you're out on a field and imagine it's us in this sort of like controlled environment together.
And we line up next to each other.
And my goal is I want to move you.
I want to dominate you. I want to impose my will on you.
Not her. I want to impose my will on you.
And you want to do the same to me.
Blocking is more complicated than it looks on TV. So, I asked John to give me a demo, but I was not interested in having him impose his will on me, so I offered up our producer, Teo Jacobs.
And then I'm just moving like this. I'll move up. And that's the idea. And the idea is I want my hat like right here.
I'm being kind. My hands are out here, but...
Oh. Do you want to see one that involves two people?
So yeah, we do have really good health insurance, I got to say. So if you broke anything, I think we'll be all right.
[music]
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While you're playing for the NFL, where they want 110% of your physical and mental devotion, yes...
You're also getting your PhD in math at MIT.
Yes, although I am not cheating, I would say, because I asked for permission first.
From whom? From the team?
John Harbaugh, the coach.
And I asked if it was okay. I said, you know, 'Coach, I want to go back to school to get my degree.'
Well, you had two degrees already, right?
Yeah, but you know, but it's true, I want to go back to school to get my degree.
And he said, you know, absolutely, this is something we completely support. Like we support people like, you know, finishing school and getting their degrees.
So I say, 'Okay, great. Thanks, coach.' So he texts me back maybe like a minute later. He says, 'But wait, but I thought you had your degree and your master's.' And so then I sort of say, but that's true, but I don't have my PhD. And he texts me back something like, 'Oh, okay.'
Okay, so that's permission.
Yeah, yeah. So I'm not attending any lectures.
And I'm carefully choosing courses that I can get by on by reading the textbook.
And courses that do not have exams.
So I read the textbook and I do the problems that...
Like a PhD-light or something though. Was MIT concerned that you were taking a...
Oh, no. So I had to take a full course load, which was three PhD courses in the fall.
While you're playing football?
