Welcome to a special edition of Legal AF, a crossover episode with The Don Lemon Show, which means I'm about to bring on Don Lemon. And when I saw what was going on in the last 24 to 48 hours, I said, I've got to get Don on. First of all, we've got Katie Zacharia. Boy, is she—
You know what I call her?
I like to call her—because, you know, they have this whole thing with Muslims, and I worked on Friends and Friendly with Fareed Zakaria. So when I first saw it, it was like her. I called her Katie Zakaria. So I'm just going to call her Katie. I've been calling her Katie Zakaria. Zachariah. Zacharia.
She is just a gift—she's a cornucopia. She's just a gift that keeps on giving. We're going to love having her in the media being up on that. I personally, like, if I was designing this person in the Weird Science lab, this would be the person. She can't read. She's nervous. She's so nervous, and it's not going to improve. Just like Pam Bondi never improved. They used to be all over Kamala Harris for word salad. Word salad. Did anybody watch her 14 minutes? Yes. 14 minutes, of which five was her talking and then getting things wrong, like who she was married to—you know, like, 'my husband Donald Trump'—I mean, my husband—and then nine minutes of taking questions from right-wing media and three attempts to end the press conference so she could go on Marine One on their way to Alaska. It was the weirdest Saturday Night Live. If they had done a skit like this, we would have said that is ridiculous. So, as soon as I saw that, I get ready. I want to see who's going to play her. I already know who's going to play her. It's that lead person. That's great. So I said I've got to get Don Lemon on about that.
And then of course we've got legitimate news. We've got Judge Kelly, a former Trump appointee from the first term, who just entered his preliminary injunction to at least give MSNBC—now Politico and CNN—back their hard passes. That's all this is, everybody. It's not about the Oval Office. It's not about Marine One. It's not about Air Force One. It's about just working in the White House with an active pass. He gave it back to them, and then minutes later the Trump administration already appealed to the D.C. appellate court. But I wanted to talk about the First Amendment implications of when reporters get bashed mercilessly and get penalized mercilessly for their viewpoint. What does that do to their reporting? I want to talk to you about that, Don.
I can't think of anybody better to talk about. Funny. Why would you think I would know about that?
Yeah, so thanks for being here on this crossover episode. You and I committed to doing things more regularly, and here we are.
Let's kick it off with Zacharia. Okay, it's 14 minutes of a press conference. First, they pick a woman whose body of work left a lot to be desired. We'd all seen her on Newsmax and on Fox, and we thought it was interesting that she was a quote-unquote lawyer from Pepperdine Law School. I assume she was.
Yeah, but the QAnon stuff that she espoused—I mean, I would say I am surprised, not shocked or stunned, that they actually picked her. If you have seen some of the things that she said on television or that she either posted or wrote about, that part is the part that should have been the first thing, right? That should have been the first red flag for the Trump administration. But considering everything—and we'll go over everything that she did, you know, with just the first day or the first week of her being there—but I don't think they vetted her.
No, you've hit the nail on the head. I said it last night on my podcast. They did not vet her.
Trump saw her and said, 'Oh, she's good-looking. She looks great on TV. We'll put her there in place of Caroline.' I think that's what happened.
1,000% because, you know, on your QAnon reference—I mean, just the clip of her saying that mifepristone, the drug created by a French company in the '80s, which is the number one way that women obtain abortions at home—medication abortions at home—was developed by the same people who developed Zyklon B that exterminated the Jews and others during the Holocaust. I mean, I'll give her props for not denying the Holocaust, but the link between—okay, we're almost there—then she linked mifepristone to this French company that makes—back to the Nazis. I'm like, okay.
Were they even around then?
No, it was a series of corporate transactions that had nothing to do with it. She implied—I'm sure people watching it, she wanted them to think—that the drug mifepristone is the same drug that killed Jews in the Holocaust.
Well, okay, so then there you go. You're proving my point. That should have been the first red flag. But here, everything in Trump world is that he wants people to fit the part. That's number one, right? So he thinks that Pete Hegseth looks good and, you know, he sort of fits the part of a military dude, so he makes him the Secretary of Defense. So he thinks that, you know, Caroline Levitt looks like what a press secretary should be, so he gets her. And then when she leaves, he wants to replace her with someone he thinks a press secretary should look like.
He's casting a movie. But let me just tell you this. At least there's diversity there. I'm kidding. There's no diversity. He went from Kayleigh McEnany to Caroline Levitt to this Katie, and they're all K's and they're all blondes.
Interchangeable. Yeah. But then they have the nerve, though, Michael, to talk about meritocracy and diversity, equity, and inclusion. Now, under their definition of diversity, equity, and inclusion, she is definitely a DEI hire because she has no idea. She is not qualified. Objectively, the woman is not qualified. She should not be anybody's press secretary, let alone the president's press secretary.
Speaking of that, I want to play a clip of Hannity.
I want to play a clip of Hannity and have you respond, where Hannity says this wouldn't be happening to her if she was black. Okay—talking about the press secretary for Biden. You didn't see this one.
A perfectly normal question and answer. But most of the so-called journalists—and I say so-called because that's what I mean—we have an abusively biased, corrupt news media in this country, the legacy media mob, as I affectionately refer to them. They are not interested in real questions and real answers. They are out for blood. Zachariah has been mocked. She's been attacked over her appearance, her hair, the way she spoke. They questioned her intelligence, her credentials. They even asked about her bar exam. Could you imagine the press asking similar questions to Karine Jean-Pierre, asking about her background, her record? With Zachariah, the blowback was immediate. It was nasty. And all of this from a group of people that claim to champion women in the workplace, which brings us to some—
Well, first of all, Karine Jean-Pierre on her worst day is better than this Katie Zachariah on her best day. It's obvious. It's obvious that she is not qualified. And for Sean Hannity to sit there and say we wouldn't be going through this if she were black—do you remember what Sean Hannity and conservative media said about Karine Jean-Pierre? They said everything, if not worse.
What people are saying about this woman—
—but the n-word. Everything but the n-word. They called her—I'm sure they used the DEI word on her, which is basically them wanting to call people the n-word. Of course Sean Hannity is out of his mind. He is delusional, and he was one of the biggest purveyors of it.
But what does that tell you, Don? That they're down to that to defend her performance?
First of all, they don't see their own racism. And second of all, anybody can look. The reason I, when we first started, I bent over to grab these papers is because this was her. Now imagine, on your first day, anything you—as a lawyer, or anybody, me as a journalist or whatever—I come on, I don't have my thing in the teleprompter or whatever reading my notes for what I'm going to say. 'Hey guys, it's the first day of my new show. We don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know what's going to happen. But look, I am so happy to work with you guys.' Or if I was in the room: 'Look, I'm honored to be here working with you. Great journalists, the best journalists in the world in this room. And I know how important this is. So we're going to go through this together. It's my first day. Go easy on me, everybody.' Right? Instead: 'Hi, my name is Katie Zachariah, and I'm happy to be here with you. And, well, now I'm going to take some questions.' And I'm not far off. I'm not exaggerating.
I was going to play a clip, but that was pretty darn close. Don—
Well, why don't you play? Let's see if we match. Let's play a compilation of the best of worst of Katie's first day, first 14 minutes. Play the clip.
In addition to that, we will be—we will be—do—he—there is $54 billion tied to the Alaska LNG pipeline and terminal to service the Pacific Rim and sell fuel to our allies. I am so honored to work for President Trump and the American people as the new White House press secretary. I want to thank President Trump for his trust that he has placed in me. He had a historic one-day war, and now we have a booming economy and a great relationship with Venezuela. Hardworking Americans are lining up and packing arenas to support President Trump and Republicans. It's not hard to see why. President Trump also unveiled a South Korea energy investment package of up to $200 billion in the United States. This is an amazing deal. This includes as much as $120 billion to build—to build eight large-scale nuclear power plants. This is a president and administration that is looking out for you, the American people, and I'm thrilled to officially be part of this incredible journey together. And with that, I will take your questions.
Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the US on a world map. Why do you think this is?
I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have that, and I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa and the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should—our education over here in the US should help the US, or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our—
Thank you very much. South Carolina.
My favorite part is she pulled a Pam Bondi, and I'll explain what I mean. Remember when—
Well, yes. That'll be violated every day—it's a press conference. But the Pam Bondi for me is when she was the lawyer for Donald Trump during the impeachment proceeding, and she was as surprised about what words were on the next page in her binder as we were, because she got to the end of her page and then she turned it and was shocked to see the next word, because we had to wait—it was a cliffhanger as she turned the page. Now, I will give a cheat, I'll give a hack here for somebody that's been at a podium—you have too. Okay. Back in the old days before electronic devices, everybody, if you really didn't know your opening, you would write the first three or four words of the next page at the bottom of that page so that you could easily transfer. Right? Okay. If you didn't have a teleprompter—like, I'm in a courtroom, I don't have a teleprompter—if you needed to get some wording, wordsmithing exactly right, that's how you would do it. Not that Stephen Chung shoved something into her three-ring binder, into her Trapper Keeper, and she didn't know what was coming up next. Keeper, you're my age—you had a Trapper Keeper too.
Well, I mean, that's what happened. My favorite part though—can I tell you my favorite part? There were two. There was one where she goes, 'and, um, no, um,' and she sounded like the beauty pageant winner that was like, 'and such as, and, um, world peace, and God bless America.' But she sounded like that.
When's the bathing suit competition starting?
Oh, well, I mean, come on. She does look like a beauty. Remember, he was the beauty pageant guy.
And let's be honest—I'm not saying in order to be in a beauty pageant, you know, most women are very attractive or whatever. I'm not saying she's unattractive. I'm not questioning her appearance—I don't like to do that. But she has a certain look, right? She has a sort of Barbie—I shouldn't say Barbie doll. Let's scratch that. She looks like a Fox News anchor. Yeah.
She's got the bow. She's got all the makeup and the lashes and the hair. But my favorite part was, you know, having kids and moving halfway across the country and my president—I mean, my husband.
I mean, I always get those two confused.
Right. Yeah, you know, Jen Psaki had a great line, you know, having been a press secretary. She said, you know, in these times, especially with Donald Trump's reputation, confusing your husband with Donald Trump as a woman is probably not a good thing. Yeah. Not a good thing at all. When you just said 'in these times'—we had the funniest thing when Donald Trump first started, when I was at CNN. I'd see my colleagues and I'd say, 'How are you?' And the joke was, 'In these trying times.' Right? That's where we are—in these trying times. But here's the thing, in all seriousness, if I can be serious about this.
Yeah, of course.
When you think about how much they talk about diversity, equity, inclusion—or disparage it, right? Because maybe it's—we say it's the n-word, maybe it's the n-word that they get to use. They said it when they first started, when the administration first came back, when the planes collided, that it was DEI. There was no evidence of any of it being DEI. All of the people who have lost their jobs—especially Black women in this economy, unprecedented numbers—and then they're talking about meritocracy and what DEI is. And then you get this woman up there who looks the part—blonde hair, blue eyes—that they think is what meritocracy means, and she completely face-plants. It is, everyone, you know, and I hear them saying it's her first day, she's nervous. When you are the damn press secretary for the White House, you are the face of the White House other than the president and maybe the vice president. You need to have your together. You can't get out there. This is not like, 'Okay, let's go out there and test somebody. We'll do a focus group.' You don't do that when you're the White House press secretary.
She's not going to get any better. Just the way Kristi Noem didn't get any better. Pam Bondi—this is not a wound that heals. You can't fix this.
He said he thought she did great. Remember—
Until they asked her where her law license was from—and she lied about her law school career.
He said China, and Trump goes, 'What?' That might have been the moment when he decided to fire her. When we look back on it, at that moment when she said—
—to save herself. We're going to play the clip now.
He's literally like this.
But to save herself, first of all, he had no idea what they were talking about her being a lawyer. Katie, Katie, what state are you admitted to practice law in? Which of the 50 states are you in? And then she responds with China. Play the clip.
She's an attorney. Where did she pass the bar exam? Which state? Which state? Tell us. Where did you pass? Where did you pass the bar? Mr. President—
That response from White House press secretary Katie Zachariah has raised more questions than answers. In her first day in the role, Zachariah answered just three questions from reporters during her debut White House press briefing. Zachariah then faced another question as the president spoke to the press outside the White House.
Did she pass the bar exam? Because she's an attorney. Where did she pass the bar exam? Which state? What's up? Where did you pass? Where did you pass the bar exam?
So, we may be looking back like—
He never turned into the camera until afterwards. He looks at her and she's answering. He's like—
You know, when he's like 95 and you're interviewing him for the Lemon Trump tapes, like the Nixon Frost tapes, you know, they may happen—stranger things have happened—and you ask him, 'Tell us the truth now. When was the moment that you decided to fire your press secretary? Was it when she said she was admitted to the Chinese bar? Was that it?' He said he would, and then she said China.
China. But just what we need.
She's already—we've already seen clips, I'm sure you've done them, we've done them, where she was an apologist for Putin. Like she was reading from the Kremlin talking points when she was on Fox and different places. Now, let me explain the Chinese thing for a minute.
That's what I want to ask you. You're an attorney, so you tell me what that means.
And I know what it is. So, she followed a spouse to China. He was in financial services, hedge fund or something, and she needed something to do. So, Chinese law firms will hire the spouses who are not admitted and cannot be admitted to the Chinese bar unless the Communist Party lets you in. They let them serve as effectively paralegals. They call them foreign law interns or foreign law experts. I mean, I don't know how expert she was after three years in law school. I certainly wasn't, even though I went to a better law school than she did. But they give them a job because they're there hanging around in China. It's sort of like—what was the great movie? Lost in Translation, like in Japan. Yeah. They need something to do. It's a great movie. They need something to do. So they hire them and they put them in a rubber room where they won't hurt anybody. And they go, 'Here, do a corporate transactional document and it's got a US law thing. Go look at it.' And they pay them. And that's what she did. She worked for this major Chinese law firm as a foreign intern. But Don, when you look at her LinkedIn, she says she was the general counsel of a not-for-profit. Now, I've been a deputy general counsel for a company. You've got to be admitted to practice law somewhere. So, I'm going to have Rob Bonta, the attorney general from California, on with me on Thursday because they're celebrating 100 lawsuits that the attorneys general have filed, you know, against the Trump administration. And I'm going to say to him, is the California Board of Bar Examiners looking at whether Katie Zacharia is unlawfully practicing law—UPPL—which they're allowed to do.
She's not. That's what I said. That's what I said to them. You know what? My gut is always right. I woke up this morning and I said, 'Oh, the next shoe to drop is a law license.'
And you're right. When—maybe that was the moment that he decided he was going to fire her, but I don't think they're going to fire her immediately, because then—
Not immediately, because that would be—
Yeah, that would be an—you just read my mind and took the exact words I was going to say. And I think what they're going to do is try to—they're going to see if they can give her some quick media training, but then they're going to go do their homework and vet her. Now, here's the thing. This is a weird correlation, a weird connection that only maybe you will understand considering what I am dealing with. This is indicative of this administration, where they do something and then they go look for the evidence to do what they did. Right? So we'll arrest him, but then now we've got to go find the evidence to arrest him, right? Find the evidence to make that stick or to make the case, when they should have found the evidence and, if there's no evidence, not do it. So they should have vetted her, and now they're going to go back and vet her and see how they can fix it. Let's send her to get some media training. We'll give her a couple more chances in front of the thing, and then she's going to be gone, because if you look at her body language—and again, it's a—
She's—unless they're playing, you know, 4D chess.
