Is he here? I've come to South Carolina because in American politics, this isn't just another stop on the map. In a little over a year, the voters you see inside this room will have a say in who could become the next Democratic nominee for president.
So, if Gavin Newsom is thinking about 2028, this is exactly the kind of place you'd expect to find him.
Well, look, I don't think that they will stop at anything to try to steal this. They're going to try to steal it, but we will win.
But I just felt we had lost the fight. We were rolling over a little bit. The shock and awe, the smash and grab presidency was overwhelming.
So, as I stood watching him work this crowd, I couldn't help but wonder, are we seeing an early glimpse of a future Democratic president?
I've been here four times and I've been here with no cameras. I've been here for other people every single time. And I've been primarily focused in parts of the state that others don't want to go. In fact, very intentionally into the rural parts and focus on the down-ballot races, focusing on the local races.
Some of those races will be crucial as Democrats begin to fight to take back the Senate this November while the Trump administration is pushing to roll back key protections in the Voting Rights Act.
It's not appropriate language, but what the is going on in this country? And every single one of these damn people are complicit. That means you, Johnson. It means everyone around the damn table.
So the stakes here isn't just about who wins. They're also about who gets a say in what happens next in our country.
We all need to just take a breath. I mean, we're just—it's just this fight and flight, fear and anxiety, anger, and it's just...
Do you get a chance to do that?
I'm part of this honestly is a little cathartic for me.
The real issues as you are out here because people are not motivated, not many, maybe that's one of the main reasons you're here, they just feel overwhelmed and despondent in a way.
That's what I was talking about. It's talking about this shock and awe, the smash and grab presidency designed to exhaust you. Lake Ontario, Lake America, you know, Gulf of America, the, you know, the war, this war, that war, this tweet, that—it's all designed to distract and exhaust you. Including the issue that we were just referring to. And we can't fall into that. We can't fall prey to that. We can't zig and zag. We can't kick our eye off the ball. And we're not. Look, I mean, this last crowd that was crazy and was in the rafters, man. People are showing up. And they're showing up in small ways, not the big ways. Meaning, it's not the shiny lights of these big races. It's these small races, 30 and 0 Democrats, state legislative races. To me, that's the test of where the party is. You win those down-ballot races. We lost almost a thousand in the last decade. We're 30 and 0 in the last year and a half. That to me says something big is about to happen in November. I'm on the totally different spectrum on this. I have so much confidence what's going to happen in November. We're going to crush it. We just have to win by huge margins.
Well, look, I don't think that they will stop at anything to try to steal the... They're going to try to steal it, but we will win. Then we have to deal mechanically with how they're trying to steal it, what's being teed up to do so. Now, and it's precisely what Trump is doing. He's laying the groundwork so he can in closer elections use the Department of Justice and others to say these elections were rigged. That's why margin matters. Turnout matters. When the margin's big enough, that's not—that's going to be an academic exercise. When those margins are slow, he's going to litigate every single one of those. And all of us have to be vigilant and have to be prepared. But I think they're going to litigate every single ballot. This initial didn't match. They wrote, you know, Don, whatever my initial, middle initial in. They didn't put a period on this one. I think it's going to be, you know, similar to Hanging Chads.
Worse than Hanging Chads. To your point, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think the biggest—the most insidious... I've been yelling about this for over a year and a half. And people have accused me, honestly, of being hyperbolic on all this stuff. When it comes to ICE agents, when it comes to Department of Justice and monitors, when it comes to the abuses of the system in terms of trying to get our voting rolls and use the DMV and others in that respect, we've litigated all that for years. California's, by the way, always the first on the receiving end of many of these things. That said, the postal service, that's next level in seriousness. Talk to you about...
A judge has already said no, but according to whistleblower, they're going forward. And he said they're not ready, like this is going to disenfranchise...
Literally now are—I mean, if it doesn't come back after they have postmarked the fact, they can slow down then the return of that mail, they can slow down receiving that mail, they can send it to you but not to you on time. That's—that's eyes wide open and that requires oversight, Congress, vigilance, you, me, everybody, surround sound, code red, aggressive condemnation and demanding transparency.
Last time I checked it was illegal to defy a federal judge's ruling.
Old school like you, I believe.
Isn't this fraudulent rule of law? The rule of...
Yes, by definition. But Trump's done that on how many—half a dozen other occasions.
That's why I wonder why you're so confident. Because we're going to win by margins that will pad my anxiety...
Like Hungary.
Precisely. Precisely. And they thought Orbán had it wired. Wired the press, wired institutions, was going to wire that outcome. And the margins were such that he could not suggest anything except he fell short and he's disappeared. And I think that's what's going to happen this November. I really believe it. But again, that requires turnout like this to turn out in November in record numbers, not just here 60 days before at a rally. So, it's—look, you feel it everywhere I go. I mean, you've been out, man. It's just a different vibe. Democrats are wildly outperforming. He can't even—he's not even making an argument to defend his record. The only thing he's—you know, he's just—it's the vainglory of naming everything and getting as much as he can because he knows the gig's up this November, the presidency, as he knows it's ending this November.
Have you seen this much? You know he talks about waste, fraud and abuse. Remember DOGE or whatever, but it seems to be the most wasteful, fraudulent, abusive regime that we have had. Look at all of the—he's spending a billion dollars on a ballroom, a helipad, an arch...
On his airplane. $934 million was transferred from the Pentagon.
The reflecting pool, I mean, the—you know, but it's what he's taking from his supporters. $3.8 billion was lost, 98% decline in that memecoin and he took over $600 million personally.
Can you tell the story about you? You were—were you in the Oval and he talked about Bitcoin?
Literally sitting in the Oval. It was just surreal, every single thing. He was just, you know, he was talking about all this stuff on the wall, pointing to FDR's painting, and I was like, oh god, here we go, third term. He goes, no, four. I'm like, okay. So I was just, you know, just doing the whole—the dog and pony show, but he starts going like this just randomly. I'm like, what are you doing? And I literally said, what are you doing? He goes, hey, I did this memecoin. He goes, I thought it was a coin, turns out it's not even a coin. I said, what do you mean? He goes, I just got a $600 million—thought it was like a coin. He thought it was an actual coin. I said—I literally started smiling. He goes, this is—I didn't know he's making any of this up. I said, so what? He says, yeah, I just got a $600 million check. I said, $600 million? I said, that sounds like a grift. He goes, what do you mean a grift? And then he got serious. I said, sounds like a grift. He goes, oh, you mean Melania's? And I was like, she has one too? He goes, yeah, yeah, Melania's got her own. I said, no, I didn't mean Melania because I didn't know Melania. I mean yours. And then he goes, that's what? No one's saying that. I said, everybody's saying that. Not Fox. I said literally not the guys on Fox News. Everyone is saying that. And then he moves on to the next topic.
But that's $600 million that he is, I believe, stealing, in my opinion, from the American people, from his constituents.
I thought he made it up. Nine months later, we saw the tax returns and it was 634 whatever million dollars. He was actually being literal. Can't make this stuff up. I mean, the Qatari jet—I keep—I get so frustrated. People say it was a $400 million gift. It wasn't. It's the $900 million that was transferred from ICBM missile defense and the improvements there for ballistic and reconnaissance missiles. It was sent over to retrofit the plane that he's taking with him. All the tariff policy and lowering the tariffs to get the golf courses, Eric Trump, all the folks, the Witkoffs and family, all the critical mineral deals, all the Pentagon deals. You saw the 15 investments that Eric and Don Jr. have where they've received $6.3 billion in federal contracts. 3.2—they've already received 3.1 of that. They're promised. The fact that we have state crony capitalism where we have 10% of—or close to 10% of Intel—and we're taking over MP Materials, demanding 25% compensation for chips to be sold, getting chips to be sold to the UAE because he got money from the government in terms of World Liberty Financial. Holy—like, holy...
I'm sorry. It's not appropriate language, but what the is going on in this country? And every single one of these damn people are complicit. That means you, Johnson. It means everyone around the damn table. Every single one of you. Rubio, you're complicit. JD Vance, complicit. All of you are complicit. The entire prime-time lineup at Fox News, every Sean, that means you. All of you are complicit in this complete grift. It's an outrage. They're liquidating our inheritance. They're selling the soul of this country.
They are. All of them are more accountable than some. We knew who Trump was.
But it's all the enablers around them. Every single damn one of you that are selling out this country, your kids and grandkids. That's not a Democrat talking. That's an American talking. And you should be ashamed of yourselves.
I didn't mean to step on your moment, but I liked your passion about that because that's where the fight is. That's what people want.
But that's why I'm here. Seriously, I'm trying to channel that because that's why I'm here. That's why I'm here because I can't take it and I can't take the—this normalization. It's like, oh, in other news, oh well, he just renamed. Yeah, it's just, well, that's Trump being Trump. Next story. Well, up next—and they're like, no, not up next. The hell—you just—what? What? Go back. Rewind. This is not—none of this can be normalized.
But the news treats it as if it is normal. And the false equivalence. And the thing that gets me when you talk about the false equivalence, that's important, but the thing that gets me when they talk about this Qatari jet, I'm hearing the news now say he's on Air Force One and I'm like, that is not Air Force One. They should say he's on the jet that we paid for from the Qataris or whatever, but they call it Air Force One and they normalize it.
By the way, I was with the person that got the phone call, by the way, in Munich. Met a representative of the Qatari government. Sat there. Don, true story. He said he had to leave. We were having a quick meeting. I don't know why I was even in this room. Was with all these fancy people in Munich. And the representative says, well, I got to catch a plane. And I couldn't help myself. I said, well, you have a plane. I thought you gave it to Donald Trump. And I thought I made a mistake. All these folks were turned around like I had offended. And he goes, can I talk to you about that? I said, yeah. Sits back down, tells me the phone call he received from Donald Trump. I did not know this. You may know this. You're a fancy reporter. You probably reported this. I didn't know this, that he got the idea, Trump, of the $400 million plane because Erdoğan got a plane. Same plane, same model.
Look that up.
And he heard about that. So he said, well, wait a second. What about me? And the representative of the Qatari government goes, and put yourself, sir, in my position. We've got troops at the border. And he mentioned five other issues. He goes, what would you have done? I said, well, I wouldn't have known what you did, but at least I understand from your perspective. And then he begged me to say that it's—he said it's not a personal gift. I said, yes, it is. He says, well, in the contract it says it's not. I said, it's a personal gift.
Do you think that plane will ever go to the museum or he's going to continue to fly?
The museum is him. It's his. I agree. And you know what he's doing? Watch this. He's going to raise money. Watch this. I mean, probably already has. He's probably going to sell ours like it's a NetJet.
Uh-huh. To take Air Force One to fundraise for the museum.
Yeah. So, you're some corporate leader. You've already worn out four or five other knee pads, sold your soul, and you might as well just get the hour on the jet with a $10 million check.
I feel like this should be Gavin After Dark. The sun is out.
Imagine you with a couple of beers and an alligator. There's much more to come from my conversation with Governor Newsom, including one issue that's put him at odds with some of his own party and sparked fierce backlash from LGBTQ+ rights advocates.
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Politics has changed. We need to change. A year ago, I was a little frustrated with my party. There's no indictment of anybody, but I just felt we had lost the fight.
Beyond these campaign-style speeches and all that talk about America's future, there are some questions Newsom can't avoid if he really does want to lead the Democratic Party, including where he stands on issues that have divided his own side.
Let's get this out of the way. Yeah. What—because people ask about 2028 and you said you want to become a bigger tent party. You also said, as I was speaking, we've heard language like take our country back and you think that you don't always go along with the Democratic Party. No. And that's—and leadership is not happy about that.
Going back to, I mean, sort of the beginning of the beginning when I was doing same-sex marriages in 2004 and the winter of love, and they wanted nothing to do with me, the party. We've married 4,360 couples from 46 states. But no, I tend to march to the beat of a different drum, but it's not my own. It's just reflective of what I feel I'm responsible and accountable for, which is to lead, not to manage. I mean, I—that's the job in these roles is to lead. And sometimes you get ahead of your skis. Sometimes you make mistakes. Sometimes you're too early. Sometimes you're just flat out wrong. But I tend to iterate. I tend to want to get ahead of the curve. And you know, I think about all the things the party's talking about as it relates to affordability. No, like we did most of everything that's on the agenda years and years ago first.
You did that. Well, can we just table that just for a second because you mentioned what you did for same-sex marriage. Yeah. And I'm talking about that you don't always agree with the party and you go with your gut. Can we just talk about the trans thing? There were some people who were not happy with athletes.
Yeah. It was harder for me. I mean, look, and I'm rightly criticized from the right for my advocacy on behalf of the trans community going back to a time when I was mayor when HRC and others were not including trans rights, and all my appointments in this space and being an advocate, and look at the laws I've signed which are the toughest in the country in terms of protecting the trans community. I also have a trans godson. But on the issue of sports, competitive sports, it wasn't an intellectual exercise for me. It was an actual issue and it was one of fairness that I couldn't square. And it came back two years in a row and it was on my lap, it was on my desk. So it wasn't an intellectual exercise and I couldn't figure out how to make it fair. And so when I was asked, do I think it's fair, I expressed my point of view. But it's a point of view that comes from the place of advocacy and love for people that just want to survive, man. And I hate the politicization of it. I hate the weaponization of it. And I despise those that are trying to use this in a way that tears down the community.
Such a small part of the population. It's not even—you know, you see what's happening with the WNBA. It's not even an issue. You have men now, or at least a man, saying what...
Yeah. They're coloring it in. They're using it as a wedge issue and it's devastating. And what I hated about being honest in my response around the fairness in competitive sports—and again, it's what I believe. I could make it up. I could lie to you. I don't want to lie to you. What I hate is that that has been used in a way that has been hurtful to people. And that was never my intention. My God, exactly the opposite. And that comes with receipts, man. You're talking to a guy for decades that's been way out front. And I put that record up against anyone's in that respect.
This was years ago before it was even—I don't think it was legal yet. You married one of my friends, Thomas Roberts. You were at his wedding. It wasn't fashionable to...
No. And it was—come on. It was the leaders in our own party, including a lot of LGBTQ leaders, that were against all this. They said, let's just focus on civil unions. And here I am. Look, no. By the way, forgive me, we're literally a King's—I mean, this—I read those letters from Birmingham. Yeah, it's always the right time to do the damn right thing. I literally was quoting them when I launched, when we announced the initiative and moved forward with those first marriages. So I was inspired by King. I was inspired by the South. I was inspired by movements. And so that's been the cause of my life and I always fought for minority rights, but I do think this is a different issue, sports, versus the broader...
Is there a solution? What would you—what would you...
I tried. That's the thing. I tried for two years. We met with all sides of this issue. We actually brought in experts on this, how to figure this out, and we couldn't. And I worked with—I tried to get the legislature to move on something that would be considered fair. And then we ultimately came up with a compromise that no one was happy with, which is we would have three people on the stand and the person—a fourth if someone was quote-unquote impacted by someone of a different, you know, that was, you know, biologically born differently. And it was—it's tough and that's how we ended up. And again, no one's happy, but I just, you know, to me it's—never, I think it was, as the governor of Utah said it best, never has there been more focus on so few people. So look, I don't want to dwell on this and that because I think this relates to why you're doing this, because you know they made trans rights an issue. They're going to be talking about that in '26. They're going to make it an issue. Everything's going to be what is a woman and all that. That was their main issue last time.
Jesus. Yeah. How about cost of gas, groceries, utilities? People are not asking you about that. Are you kidding? Like literally, it's funny you bring this up. No, I mean, I've been everywhere and I've been in Michigan. I've been in Nevada. I've been in three states so far in the last four days in the South. Three days in LA in the South. Not once has this issue come up. I can give you 25 other issues that have come up. This is a manufactured issue in order to divide us, in order to get us distracted from the real issues that they can't solve. And that's the difference here. It's the magnitude. It's just—it's so overt.
And it's so extraordinary to sell out the people that believed in you. And that to me is the most extraordinary thing. He plays them for suckers. He plays them for fools.
They allow it every time. They pay his legal bills. They think they're donating to the campaign. It's going towards...
Literally going directly to him. Yeah.
So have you—I don't know if you have—sorry. There's mosquitoes. We're in the South. It's crazy. Or not.
Where's the bug spray?
The South, man. I grew up here in this. It's crazy. It's hot. Look, you walk outside and immediately you take a shower, walk outside, and it's like, why did I even take a shower? It's ridiculous. And everybody's got pits. I got courage to wear pink. I wouldn't...
Well, it's a little linen. You got—linen is a trick.
Yeah, it's linen because that's—you don't even notice that's linen. You're doing well on this podcast. I mean, I don't know. I remember. Have you been to the grocery store lately? I don't know if you shop.
