Welcome to the episode of Assess and Caress on Jay Leno's Garage. The cars we're featuring today from the Audrain Automobile Museum in Newport, Rhode Island, they're brought to us by Reliable. They trucked them all the way across the country, bring them all the way back, and not a scratch. So, it works pretty good. Tell us exactly what we're doing here, Donald.
Well, Jay, today's episode is entitled Analog or Digital. So, we're looking at two very comfortable, very fast four-door sedans of two different eras. This is the 1988 BMW M5 of the E28 series, and this is a 2020 Mercedes-Benz Maybach S560 xDrive.
Boy, that's a complicated name.
I mean, to me, this is sort of, I don't know what you say, the last good-looking car BMW. I'm not a fan of the new — I mean, excellent cars, not a fan of the Bucky the Beaver grill and this new styling thing they have. I mean, I like this because it's a manual shift. For a while, BMW, the top of the line, you had that dash panel that looked like the way you check in at the Hilton, you know? Anyway, I like this era of BMW. It was still, you know, when I worked for Foreign Motors in Boston, that was the era of the 2002, 2002 Tii, the Bavaria. They were all manual shift cars, and I loved them. The idea that you got a big, comfortable car that was a manual shift, that was — you really couldn't get that in an American car. So, that was my favorite, and this is sort of the last vestiges of that era, you know?
Absolutely. My older brother had a Bavaria, right? And I thought it was one of the most extraordinary cars I'd ever seen in my entire life. I thought, 'Wow, one day I'll have a car like my older brother.' And the E28 BMW is, I think you're absolutely correct, the absolute high point of the new BMW as reinvented in 1961 with the Neue Klasse cars, where they found their way after the lost desert years of the Isetta and the 507 and the big baroque angel sedans. And this is sort of BMW really hitting its stride. And it also shows a certain confidence of brand identity that, you know, this is a sedan, it's a sporty sedan, it's a great performance car, but it also has that comfort that you expect from a four-door German car that serious people would consider.
Right. And that level of car did not exist in America. I think that the equivalent today would be the Blackwing.
Blackwing Cadillac. Oh, big comfortable four, six-speed transmission. You know, so this was — oh, you could get, because there was a small niche of people that wanted kind of a Cadillac comfort, but with a manual transmission. And you couldn't get that in America. You might — you could get a Mustang or Camaro, but that wasn't the same thing.
Absolutely not. And you really hit the nail on the head because I think that the current Cadillac Blackwing is very much for me the reincarnation of this BMW M5.
It is the perfect combination of performance and comfort. And it's one of the reasons why I really love high-performance sedans. One of my dream cars from the time I was a little boy, when it was first introduced, it was the first series Maserati Quattroporte.
A 130-mph car with these incredible beautiful leather seats, and you sit four people, and it's just absolutely amazing. And the fact that you don't have to choose between comfort and convenience and performance. And that's something that BMW really brought to the table in a way that few people were certainly doing in the US. This car had probably — and this is going to hopefully promote a lot of conversation about this. But in thinking about the M5, and I've driven this car quite a bit, there is a car that probably I think was its most direct competitor, but is almost completely unknown, and that was a Lancia Thema 8.32.
It was a four-door sedan this size with a Ferrari V8 engine in it. It was the first production car with an automatically adjustable rear spoiler on the decklid. It was an amazing thing. Put out much the same power as this, same 0 to 60 approximately. And it was an amazing car, but again, who knew about it? Nobody.
Couldn't give it away. Exactly.
And these cars were absolutely extraordinary in a way that has made them a legend. I mean, these were never left in somebody's front yard to be a beater. These were always incredibly well-appreciated cars. They were built by the Motorsport division, so it's very limited production. I think they built somewhere around 2,500 of these cars. It's an extraordinary performance car that frankly, you know, gives you everything. If you had to have only one car...
Yeah, and it was sort of skin-deep in the sense that at this point American cars had front-wheel disc brakes, but drums in the back, you know. This was four-wheel disc. This was performance all the way through. It wasn't like, 'Oh, let's tart up the car and put a trend in it.' You know, I mean, it's not a race car, but it's a proper sports car from the ground up, and they just added all the luxury features. Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's a great car.
And it shows a moment in history as well when, as I mentioned about the sort of brand security, BMW was saying, 'We can compete with Mercedes-Benz.' So, at this point Mercedes didn't have the kind of performance sedans that they would later develop soon after this period, but you know, you had to go to the tuners at that point, like the AMG versions of...
Well, you had the 6.9. That was still around.
It was more, and we'll talk about our other car today and the relationship between that, because I know that you are a great fan and owner of Mercedes performance sedans.
And I too love the 6.3 and the 6.9 cars, which are incredible performance, but they're quiet performers.
They're not that sort of 'I'm going to go out today and hurl it through a canyon.'
The Q ship, the English call it.
Exactly. Yeah, they're capable of that kind of performance, but it's not going to be the kind of thing that you say, 'I'm going to set up this morning to do that.' And what sets up quite well our other car in this bit of the comparison, the digital version of the analog.
And this is a very different car in so many ways, and I know that a number of people, I'm sure will comment, why the heck did you pair these two cars? What does a BMW M5 have to do with a Maybach? And this is a very interesting thing because, as you recall, because I think you were involved in the launch of the original...
This, Lionel Richie and I actually at the — I think in the big unveiling in Vegas. The problem with Maybach was what I call the New Coke problem, the beverage, not the drug.
In that, for years Coca-Cola, the best-selling, best soft drink in America. And all of a sudden they come out with New Coke. It's actually — but whoa, whoa, hey, wait. Like my wife, she loves Coca-Cola. She said, let's buy a couple of cases of regular Coke if they do away with it, you know. And I did, you know.
I hope you still have them because they're great collector's items.
Yeah, they're collector's items. And that was sort of the problem with this because you now had something above the standard of the world. So, what did I do right if I just bought the top-of-the-line Mercedes? Oh, I feel second best. You know, it wasn't handled well. The idea was if you were a Maybach dealer, you had to build a special addendum or whatever they call it, special building.
Special showroom, or at least a certain Maybach ordering room adjacent to your showroom.
And you would look over, look at fabrics and all this kind of stuff. Americans like my dad, you walk in the showroom, yeah, give me that one. Can I buy that one? That one's fine. Yeah, my dad just bought what was on the floor. The idea of ordering a car — I'm here to buy a car. I was like, you couldn't walk in and just buy a car. I mean, you couldn't. Near the end people realized that we got to produce some. I mean, even Duesenberg and those guys were smart enough to build a bunch of Murphy sedans or coupes they could have on the showroom floor. Those that wanted bespoke bodywork, they could get it. But you also had the rich guys in Vegas who just won 50 grand. Heck, let's go buy a car, you know, boom, that type of thing, that impulse buy. Americans love impulse buys. And this was not an impulse buy. You had to like, now what fabric? Oh, and it's two-tone, you want this? And you know, it's just too much.
Yeah, Mercedes — Daimler-Benz, I should say — wanted to compete with Rolls-Royce. And it's an interesting thing because they actually had an opportunity to buy Rolls-Royce and Bentley when they were for sale. And they considered it and they thought, nah, we don't want to do that. It's not that big a market for us to make that kind of investment to buy those companies. We'll do something on our own. And so, they came up with the idea of reviving the Maybach name, which was in the Daimler-Benz stable. And of course, the Maybachs were incredibly capable, luxurious pre-war cars, you know, every bit the equal of the biggest Mercedes and the Horchs and the...
Even the Maybach family, they flew them out. I met the grandmother and all. They were bringing back the car, you know, it was a huge deal. And it is a fabulous car, V12. What was it? 560 horse, I think, which now doesn't sound like much, but...
In '02, that was a lot of power.
This thing really — I remember I called Schwarzenegger, I have to drive this car, the new Maybach. And he went crazy. He says, this is fantastic, this car. I mean, I think he bought one right on the spot. He was the only guy. I mean, just the quilted leather like on the Lusso Ferrari from the — I mean, all those things, well-made, fast, handled. Yeah.
But now the car we're looking at today, however, the only relationship that this car has to that car are the badges.
Because that was a totally bespoke car on totally separate construction, etc. The car was a horrible failure.
They did not sell the cars. They had to buy back some dealerships because there simply wasn't any demand for the car at all.
Right. Well, it was kind of like when you bought a Lincoln, it wasn't a Ford. It was the Lincoln car.
And built by the Lincoln Motor Car Company. And people got, 'Isn't it a Ford?' Or I didn't like — and they just get confused, you know. And that was sort of the problem. But you're right, it was all — it took so long to get one of these because they're handmade and you know, Americans don't like to wait, you know, if my pizza's not here in half an hour, I don't want it.
The Domino's theory of car ordering.
I mean, we're an impulse buy society. We like — we see something, I got to have it. And then when you can't — well, then you start looking elsewhere. What else is around? And then you know, that could get in a week or two, you know.
And so Daimler-Benz made the decision after killing the original Maybach to revive the nameplate as the top-of-the-line Mercedes S-Class. So, that's what we have here. This is basically a Mercedes S-Class...
...with a big powerful engine and very, very, very high level of trim and noise deadening. So, this is by its obviously, you see that it's got the three-pointed star on the hood, the Maybach symbol on the C-pillars.
Maybachs, of course, the original ones had the Maybach on the hood.
And so, this is a Mercedes-Benz. So, it relates to the S560, the top-of-the-line...
It's a top-level Mercedes because people just were insulted. Is it — Mercedes makes it and it's better than their car? Yeah, well, kind of. Yeah, it was just confusing. Again, like New Coke, like, can I just get a Coke? What do I have to get New Coke? You know, how could you convince me it's better? I don't think it's better. I'm used to the — you know, we're used to Mercedes-Benz as being the standard, you know.
And you make the good point when we talk about the Ford GT. Ford had enough confidence in their badge and what it represented to say we can do a GT car for the road and that will run at Le Mans, but it's called a Ford.
I mean, it's silly like the Honda — it's called Acura here.
It's the Honda NSX in the rest of the world.
I mean, be proud — I mean, you built it. Be proud to put your name on it. It always surprised me because Honda was always sort of the pinnacle of Japanese engineering and technology. Why would you change the name? I mean...
Well, again, the marketing people felt that people would not buy a car at a certain price point if it was called a Honda.
Now, again, it's about having confidence in the product.
Well, it's funny, you know, Nissan, they started the Infiniti.
And they had an ad on TV that showed the Infiniti and it went through the forest and it saw rocks and trees and they never mentioned the car. And I joked about it one night and I got picked up in the New York Times. There was a Nissan ad. I said, 'You know, Nissan's got this ad campaign. It's not selling many cars, but garden shops have got sales of rocks and trees just going through the roof. People buying rocks and trees. Wow, this is really great.' You know, hey, and that was the problem. They didn't show the car because they thought, 'Oh, it is so exclusive.' You know, yeah, please.
But it is something which is emblematic of the progression of performance and levels of performance that you have a car like this Maybach that has levels of performance that were only seen in high-performance cars a decade earlier and with a level of luxury inside that rear compartment that is better than first class in most airlines.
Yeah, and I would say this is equal to the Mercedes 600 of the '60s. That's what they were doing. And one of the most beautiful factory wheels I've ever seen.
Absolutely amazing. They're riding on those wonderful Bugatti wheels, you know.
Yeah, it just — to have that much center, I think really, really makes it look fantastic.
To your point about the Mercedes 6.3 and 6.9, this is a car when people look at it, you sort of have an expectation of what it might be, but then you take it out on the road and it's really quite surprisingly — I won't say sporty, but it's incredibly responsive in a way that you would not expect it.
Schwarzenegger was throwing this thing around up in the hills. I mean, he was really driving it hard and it handled. I mean, he was very impressed with it and he bought one, you know, just based on that. So, yeah, it's a great car. Again, it doesn't seem how the same person would never buy this one over this one or this one over this one. So, it almost seems like our analysis of which is more valuable seems a little...
Well, again, our analysis is not which is most valuable.
It is about change in value in a 5-year period.
So, let's recap what we've got here and then get your opinions on what happens, which should not be that hard for you. I mean, we only have two cars today, so try to make it a little easier for you today so you can take a light day. We've got our 2020 Mercedes-Benz Maybach S560 xDrive. Repeat after me. And the...
1988 BMW M5.
Okay. Well, this is a car people are lusting after. You don't have to follow this program and understand what we're doing to realize people just want these. They come up for sale, they disappear right away. So, this has gone up in value and I think certainly over this. This is an impressive car, but people, you know, they think, 'Oh, that hydraulic suspension, that suspension thing looks like it could be a problem.' But they don't know the car. They don't know the history of the car. This being somewhat analog, you can fix it. You know, you can drain your own oil. The transmission's not sealed for life, you know, which is something I don't understand. You got the same...
The 9-speed automatic in this is not something you're going to service yourself.
Right, exactly. Is it a 9-speed?
Well, okay. I rest my case. Yeah, so this one I think would be the winner of the sweepstakes.
I will confess that this is of any of these segments we've done the easiest to figure out because...
...we've got an absolute icon of collecting and we have a fairly new luxury car. And everyone knows what happens to new luxury cars.
This car 5 years ago might have been about $175,000. And now it's about $120,000. So, it has depreciated as you would expect a new luxury car to do.
I would imagine you should see them cheaper than that.
You can find them cheaper than that. Again, this is one of those cases where mileage — mileage doesn't really matter in a collector car because you don't care about how many miles it's traveled. You care about what those miles were. For this market, of course, mileage does matter. You can find cars that have not been well maintained and that have fairly high mileages that can be purchased for much less. A car that has been very well maintained and has a very low mileage for average years is something which is sought after in the market and therefore obviously commands a higher price and has depreciated less.
Plus, it seems to me once you're over $100,000 or $150,000, that's a lot of money for a used car. You know, you say to yourself, you know, I might as well get something brand new with a warranty and everything else. I would think these had depreciated to $75,000 or even $60,000. You went into a dealer, he'd give you much more than that for it.
Well, they are new enough that there are some that you could probably buy on a certified pre-owned program from a Mercedes dealer.
So, you know, you have that as well. But it's also a matter for a car like this of someone looking beyond. Is this a car that, because of its production, because of its features, because of its performance, what it means to its time period, is this something that I want to buy and hold on to, drive 1,000 miles a year, keep it maintained, enjoy it because it delivers the level of performance and luxury that, you know, you normally get out of a $300,000 new car today.
Interesting that you mentioned Rolls-Royce. You have an older Rolls-Royce and people go, 'Oh, is that a Rolls-Royce? Wow.' The average person would not know Maybach. You'd have to explain to them why it's expensive and all that kind of thing, you know. Classic example, friend of mine had a Cloud, like a Mark III.
So, it's a Cloud III, yeah.
66566. He paid $15,000 for it. He brought it here, couldn't get it running. We got it running. Let's take it around the block. Now, I drive McLarens, all kinds of stuff around the block. I come around the corner, guy looks at me and gives me the finger, you know. Because I'm like — I'm a Rolls-Royce now. Hey, he just gives me the finger. I just had to laugh at that. I go, 'What are you doing? Guys, this is only $15,000, this car.' Yeah, it was a Rolls-Royce. Yeah, I mean, there's still that Grey Poupon mystique going on, you know. So, if you say it's like a Rolls-Royce, I think people will go, 'Oh, I'll take the Rolls-Royce.' Even though this is obviously a better car.
And our BMW? About 5 years ago, it might have cost you $130,000. Today, it'd be $190,000.
Absolutely. These are incredibly desirable cars. It's a very funny thing I heard recently. At that price level, it becomes less interesting to me because I wouldn't want to drive it. But the reality is, again, thinking about what you can buy today that you can enjoy this level of driving in and that may continue to appreciate, I think it offers incredible value. I'd sell two cars to buy this one.
Now, can you put the European bumpers on this to get away from the — this is sort of the thing I hated about that era. You had to put these big American goofball cow-catcher things on the front here. You know, and when I see people have changed them and then put the European chrome bumpers on, it looks like it.
Put the European bumpers on. However, and this is something that actually is very important in the BMW collectible community, BMW owners have a tendency, like Alfa Romeo owners did for decades, to modify their cars and personalize them quite regularly. The cars that bring the leading price in the market are cars which are not modified, because taking the American bumpers off and putting the European bumpers on is not that simple. There's all the energy-absorbing bumpers inside, the shocks inside. So, you have to do a fair amount of modification in order to fit those bumpers. And again, for me, both using the nostalgic part of collecting — I remember these cars new — and also I have to say the designers did a really good job of integrating these bumpers at a time when a lot of 1988 cars were really hideous.
If you imported an '88 European model, which you could now under the 25-year rule, that would be way more valuable than this because it has the European bumpers and it left the factory with the European bumpers.
And they also have more power, European models.
So, yeah, absolutely, that would be a higher-valued car than this one. But the great thing about this is that since we only have two cars here, we're going to actually get a chance to experience some of this M5 magic on the road.
I'd like to do that because I've driven the Maybach and it's a very impressive car, but I haven't driven one of these. So let's see how it goes.
Oh, this is a comfortable place to be. Great steering wheel. Clutch, it feels like a clutch.
Boy, I like this already.
Yeah, this is quite a fabulous car.
Oh. I mean, six-cylinder engines are always inherently smoother, aren't they?
Yep.
And this is a classic example. I remember when I was working at a car dealership as a kid, we got a CS Cobra, the built by Karmann. Yeah, I mean, not the greatest build quality, but manual five-speed. I mean, it was so
Beautiful cars, incredibly balanced, they're amazing.
So turbine-like, I mean, it just It was the smoothest engine I think I'd ever driven, and I was very impressed. Yeah, this is very good. It feels good. This is a It just feels right. It's a very nice.
And you know, time does fly, and this is an old car, but it feels like a car that you could drive on a showroom today.
Well, I like the steering wheel is exactly the right size, exactly the right shape. I mean, a lot of thought went into this car. I mean, controls are fairly modern the way they're set up. You know, the fonts and everything are a little different, but that's okay. You got the classic M in the tach, which is kind of neat.
Yeah, a little digital clock, which is all the rage back in the day. No, it's great. It's really terrific. It's really terrific. I'm surprised they're so expensive.
Again, limited production and a car there a lot of cars that have a reputation. And this is a car that not only lives up to its reputation, but I think surpasses it in so many ways. Um I remember you and I going out for a drive in the BMW M1 and uh how it was less than ideal for you. And you think about the fact that these controls and all this look very familiar because it's the same time period as the M1. And what BMW was doing for a sports car, they're actually frankly at that point doing better in a sedan.
Right, right. Now, let me ask you a question.
You have $175,000. Do you buy the Cadillac Blackwing with the 6-speed and save probably $60,000 or do you get this? Cuz I mean this is like This car was so far ahead of its time. It matches a car built today.
I would buy this car today if it was new.
Uh okay, but it's not new and it's an old car and it costs more than And you know, parts are going to be tricky. Um I mean when we were talking before about value and all that kind of stuff. Are you buying as a collector or as a person who I don't think of myself as a collector. I guess I am though.
You are a collecting enthusiast and this is the perfect car for a collecting enthusiast and for the part of the market that to me is the heart of the market, which is people who want to have an experience. This is a car that you buy, you put all this money into because you want to enjoy it and experience it on the road. You don't buy this to put away in a warehouse and cover carefully and drain the fluids and wait for a future when it's worth twice what it's worth today.
But would Would I buy the back the Blackwing over this? Yeah, for the money for $125,000 versus $175,000. you know, I probably
