We have former Montana Senator Jon Tester and CEO and co-founder of Palantir, Alex Karp. Thank you both for joining us. We just saw a historic midterm election last week here in the United States. Alex, I'm curious. Palantir is heavily invested in the second Trump administration. You bet on it big. How do you read the election results that we saw last week?
First of all, look, you're equating our business to election results. We've been at this for 21 years, every administration. I've been, you know, basically I've been a progressive. I'm still an economic progressive. We supported every administration. Actually, I would kind of dispute we've supported anyone more than the other. But be that as it may, one of the reasons I'm very happy to be here is our commercial business in this period has become the dominant part of our business, but not the dominant part of what we care about. Like we really care about the US government working the best it can and better than it ever has. And there's been a lot of discussion around just the juggernaut that's our commercial US business. And that is actually true and it's most of our market cap at this point. But making sure the US government supports its citizens, especially on the battlefield, especially at the Department of War, is something that every single leader of this company cares about. I built my life around. And yeah, I mean, we're happy to be where we are.
But what message did voters send to big tech companies?
Well, I mean, I've been on the record and I think I've been the most out there of big AI executives, if you want, that's what you want to call me, on economic justice. Like where I am legitimately not on the right and have never been on the right, and I've been saying this all the last couple years, is you have a revolution that is making people like me potentially 20 times richer. Go explain to the American people why that's justified. You can't. And of course I do think AI will help the average person in many professions, farming, police work, whatever. But we have, there is a implicit contract in this country and that is rich people can become very wealthy but not 20, 50 times wealthier than they are without explaining to the average person how they're going to become wealthy. And that message is a message. And the simplest version of it is some people on the right and some people on the left, mostly on the right, believe capitalism will solve all problems. I've never believed that. I've been consistent on this. Every interview, go watch any interview I've done in the last year. Every single interview, every single one. And that's what I'm saying in public. In private, it's like, are you guys, are you idiots? Like nobody's signing up for this. And the other thing is we're part of a small clique of people most people don't relate to. Actually, I have 100 million fans. Probably I have a ton of fans and anti-fans, but so I'm probably the most, I'm definitely the most popular. And I'm telling them I can't, I could not explain to my fans, people who will literally march in the streets for me and Palantir, how it is that I'm going to be 20, 30 times wealthier and the constituents in your state are going to, their income is going to grow 3%, 5%. And that, like, I think every election we have is going to be a referendum on that. And I've cautioned my colleagues in private over and over and over and over again. And every political figure you name, I can't obviously name names. You name the political figure, if I've interacted with him at any time, I've delivered this message mostly to deaf ears.
So you read last week's results as a referendum on economic, on income inequality?
On economic justice. It's like if you do not explain to the American people why it is a small group of people that they've never interacted with that are talking about potential destruction of the world are becoming 20, 40, 50 times wealthier and you're maximally going to become 5% wealthier before you deduct inflation, see how they react. And here you have one of the greatest political figures of our time and he's laughing.
Senator Tester, in your career in the Senate you were known as a moderate dealmaker. One of the big storylines of this midterm election has been the ascendancy of the Democratic Socialists of America. Did Senator Bernie Sanders and the DSA, did they have a good night last week?
Well, look, I will say this. I think it goes back to what Alex just talked about. I think that part of the reasons the DSA has ascended is because there isn't economic justice out there. And this is a counter to what is going on where we're getting an income gap that's way, way, way too wide. Look, there were some DSA folks elected. There was a lot of moderate folks that were elected, too. I think both can claim victory in this last election. But I think the folks who can't claim victory are the folks that didn't stand up and hold this president and this administration accountable. It's the folks that didn't stand up and say, 'Hey, we're going to do oversight hearings.' It's the folks that didn't stand up and say, 'You know what, this is Congress's job. It's not the executive branch's job to do.' And I think people were looking at a government that wasn't working for them and they said, 'Hey, we want some checks and balances and we want the government to start working for working families and small businesses and family farm and ranch agriculture.' And I think that was the message that I got out of it.
Alex, we're here in New York City where Zohran Mamdani is mayor, part of that DSA movement. You've said that he won election here because of fears of AI and, you know, college curriculum.
That's not what I said about him. I think the DSA, my words, not yours, they like to gaslight Jews and segregate blacks. And I think that's why they're, and that movement, I, for personal reasons, I am against the anti-black side of DSA, which is real. And I'm definitely against gaslighting Jews. And it's a very successful movement because that's what they offer. Now, is it progressive? Like, I care about actually raising the standard of the average person in this country, not the person who got an anthropology degree at Yale. So like if that's what you care about, that's great. Say that. What I care about personally, what I've dedicated my life to, and what I think Palantir plays, again the dominant part of our business, the thing that's paying for our 400, sometimes 500 billion dollar market cap is the fact we're growing almost 150% in US commercial. The reason we're growing like that is because we were the progenitors and primary leaders of what's called a sovereign AI movement. What does that actually mean? Why is it related? Why does that connect to the average worker? Because what we're basically saying to every business is, do you control the means of production so that you actually make money for you, your shareholders, and your workers, or are you outsourcing it? What am I saying? What is the message I would give to the American worker? Are you participating in the US economy so that your wages grow and not just in relative terms to what they are, but in relative terms in some way tethered to how my net worth is growing? And in both cases, on the lab front, if you're installing AI and you're not getting value but they're getting rich, or if the American worker is getting a tiny bit of value and I'm getting rich, that breaks the system. And the counterintuitive thing about our business and commercial is we are leading an absolute progressive movement in US commercial in the most capitalist environment in the world and we're the dominant players. We're growing at a rate probably five times what you need to grow to be successful and we're doing it with no salespeople and we're doing it with me being honest about a lot of things that they don't want me to be honest about.
How do you think Donald Trump has governed?
Okay, you know what, you journalists, sorry about this. It's like you're like, what do you think about what this person said yesterday? What do you think about this person? Okay, I'm just going to say I have my views. They are my views. It's independent of who's governing what. I am critical of a movement, right or left, that is detached from the average worker. On the right, it's detached because they will not accept that capitalism does not solve all problems. And therefore, they think if I'm 30 times wealthier and you're 2% wealthier, that's not only fair, that's great. On the left, there are many different kinds of the left. There's the moderate left. There are people like, you know, I've always, you know, who want things to work fair, transparent, non-corrupt, and better and have dedicated their life to that. Then there's a left that is dedicated, in my view, to making sure the person who opted to study anthropology at Yale, a school near and dear to my heart because my brother went there, to pay for the decisions they made, which is like you're not employable, and want to do it while gaslighting one group and segregating another. Both groups I have a direct relationship to. I'm against that. Now, I don't know what the mayor of New York says and I'm not tracking that, but I am against that and I'm in favor of this. And I'm, by the way, I'm willing to have a dialogue about any of these issues like people change. Maybe we could agree on economic justice, real economic justice. Maybe we don't. We don't have to agree on everything. I tell you what I agree with here. He has dedicated his life to the US military actually working. He's revered by people across the, and I've interacted with him in private for I think the last 10 years. He's a modest guy. I actually, you know, I'm super into the outdoors. My first, my goal in life when I was in high school was to be a veterinarian at farms. I love that lifestyle.
It's a very hard lifestyle and I want to support people who live like that.
President Trump has said that he thinks immigration hurt Republicans in the midterms. Palantir was involved in some of that with ICE.
Well, I mean, I was really happy to hear the president be honest that, you know, his words I believe were something like, yeah, we kind of went too far. I have been saying in private, like there's always a question, what do you say in public, what do you say in private, but I think anyone who's interacted with me in private has heard several messages. One, you can't explain to the American people that we deserve to be 20 times richer, you've heard this, blah, blah, blah. Two, there are different kinds of progressives. Three, I am someone who believes in very controlled migration, but it has to be humanely done and competently done. And Americans are a deeply fair people. So if you want to do these things, and I'm glad he's saying in public now what I've been saying in private, and we will see what happens.
And what have you been saying in private exactly?
You have to be super competent and it has to be fair and explainable to the average American person. People agree with you and people don't agree with you. The average American voter. Look, President Obama, that we supported also in that context, did very well and like having a migration policy that people bought into. Let me give you, and then we should hear, we have the most important political figure. I don't know why I'm talking, but the American people are fairness fanatics and I agree with them on that. Show me any policy, if they don't think it's fair they will get off the board. Policies they agree with and I agree with that.
So you were saying in private that ICE went too far.
I've already told you what I said and what I'm saying is, and I have this across the board. Pick your issue. You pick any issue you want. I will def, I, it's not, you have to be very careful about is something being done in a way that appears fair, is fair and looks competent and it can be made transparent. If those categories are not fulfilled, the American people will not support you. And the American people are right about that. The president acknowledged that.
Senator Tester, we're here today because you are now joining Palantir in an advisory role. You're not going to be lobbying. You're going to be advising them. You know, you have taken positions contrary to Palantir's mission in terms of voting against the Patriot Act.
Oh, sorry. That's not our mission. [laughter] We are, sorry, I'm just going to, no, we are the most important defenders of the Fourth Amendment right in this country. That is not our mission.
Well, I mean, what's important here to note is that Palantir puts out a service, okay. It isn't like AI has been around for a number of years, but before they even had AI, the government has a lot of information on us. I mean, if you fill out tax forms, they know who you do business with, they know where you live, they know what you're worth. Basically, you use that information in a bad way, it's going to end up with bad results. Why I am excited about this opportunity is because number one, it can create better efficiency for government, restore people's faith back in government. It can create a better use of taxpayer dollars. In other words, it's going to be cheaper to operate and in the end, people like, whether you're a farmer or whether you're a veteran or whether you're a war fighter on a battlefield, you will have a better opportunity of being successful. And that's really what it's about.
Companies like Palantir are going to get increasing scrutiny in a Democratic-led Washington. What will your advice be to Alex and the company if they're hauled in front of a Senate committee?
Be transparent, be forthright, address the questions straight up. Be respectful to the folks who are asking you questions and understand that their job, and it's one of the reasons I've been very critical of this last Congress, their job is to be a check and balance on the administration and to make sure that folks are doing their job the way Congress intended it to do. So, I don't think Palantir is going to be a bit afraid of going in front of committee and telling their story. In fact, just the opposite. They got a great story to tell and I think it's an opportunity for them to tell it, not somebody else.
Alex, with that increased scrutiny, do you see areas of common interest with Democrats in Congress?
I mean, I've been a Democrat my whole life. I grew up in a far-left environment. I know more about being a progressive than almost anybody on the planet. And I absolutely believe our, all of our products are essentially progressive. And by the way, on this point, there is no product, none of the product that will enforce transparency and lack of corruption like our products. And I'm very happy to talk about that in a very transparent way. And by the way, just to underscore this, I deeply respect the right and duty of congressional leaders to do their jobs and look at these things and provide checks and balances. And I think that's what they should do. And by the way, our products underscore that and people will see that.
Anything you would caution congressional Democrats against?
