Consul General, Jeffrey Hawkins (Interview) | Cool TV

Well, I would say probably the most challenging moment in my career was the day that we brought the Ambassador on, was Obeah FM, and had him speak. No, all kidding aside, that was a great moment and I think did a lot for Nigerian-American relations. The challenging times of course were when Ebola struck here in Nigeria. That was extremely scary and challenging, and I think the Nigerian government, the state governments, the Nigerian people, and the international community reacted very well to that challenge. We had challenges and concerns around the electoral process that ultimately went very well. And there are day-to-day challenges as well, but I don't really reflect very much on the challenges. I reflect much more on the successes and on the great relationship that there is between the United States people and the Nigerian people.

Sure. Well, I think you have to preface any discussion of the bilateral relationship with an understanding about the nature of the relationship. Irrespective of who's in the White House, who's in the Villa, who the personalities are, there are some very deep commonalities between the United States and Nigeria. Our regional interests are largely congruent, our economic interests are very similar and closely tied. There are all these Nigerian Americans living in the United States and all these Americans living in Nigeria. Those ties are very deep and very strong, so you're not likely to see a lot of fluctuation over time between the two countries in that sort of scenario. I would say that at this moment in time, the relationship is particularly good. And I think we're focused on a number of key areas here. You mentioned security, and obviously that's one that's very important in Nigeria, very important to the incoming Buhari administration, very much important to the United States and the Obama administration. And we've seen a great deal of intense cooperation in terms of equipment, in terms of training, in terms of the intelligence sharing that you're discussing. And as long as there's this very serious security threat in Nigeria's northeast, this is going to continue strongly.

I think particularly in a situation in which you're talking about security collaboration like that, you're not likely to hear a whole lot about that. And I can tell you, without going into the details of it, that that cooperation is quite strong, ongoing, and I think extremely helpful to Nigeria.

Well, that whole debate, and I think folks in Nigeria sometimes lose sight of it, was centered on one weapon system. There is a tremendous amount of cooperation that's going on across a wide variety of areas in the defense realm. So to just talk about one weapon system and suggest that somehow represents a decline in the relationship is erroneous. And I'm reminded of it every time I'm out in the harbor here in Lagos when I see the NNS OPA Bono, which is the newest flagship of the Nigerian Navy, which was just turned over. I was there when it happened a few months ago. There's plenty of good work that's being done there, plenty of good training and good cooperation, and I don't think we need to get hung up on one weapon system.

Yeah, I mean, I think the United States government and governments across the world are torn between some competing interests and issues. On the one hand, you need to remain absolutely firm and staunch facing violent extremists because to give in to their demands or to yield to them only emboldens them and empowers them to take their criminality that much further. On the other hand, you do have real human beings, you have families, you have American citizens who are caught in the middle of this conflict between countries that believe in rule of law, countries that believe in democracy, countries that believe in human rights, and extremist groups that don't. And you've got these human beings caught in the middle. So I think that there's certainly been an effort to try and bring those two often conflicting things a bit into harmony.

Well, obviously China's economy is large and growing. The United States economy still represents the largest single economy on the globe, but the kind of growth rates we've seen in China are phenomenal. And it is really important that economies that play that kind of role in the world economic system play by the rules. The cyber area that you're talking about is one of those new areas where in some respects the rules of the road are less clear, less well established. And so it's very important that we all sort of respect the international system and respect the international rules that have been set up. To the extent that doesn't happen, it's important to be very firm on that. And we've certainly engaged in some rather intensive dialogues with the Chinese government over time about those and other issues.

I would say that your question very accurately reflects public perception in Nigeria. I don't think the premise of your question accurately reflects the actual reality of the situation. The United States was committed under the Jonathan administration to fighting Boko Haram. It remains committed to fighting Boko Haram with Nigeria under the Buhari administration. And our assistance, as we discussed earlier, has been very wide and very deep. Why is it there? Because violent extremism of the kind that Boko Haram represents is a threat to US government interests, a threat to Nigeria, a threat to the Nigerian people. Many Nigerians have been killed at the hands of Boko Haram. But beyond that, for us, we've seen what those sorts of movements unchecked can do to global stability. So we're very eager to work with Nigeria in fighting Boko Haram, whether it's under a Buhari administration, Jonathan administration, XYZ administration. I think you'll find a strong partner in the United States.

No, I don't think you can see it that way. Our federal system is just that, it's federal. The makeup of the Congress doesn't necessarily dictate which way the presidential elections are going to go. Also, we have a very strong phenomenon: our House of Representatives is elected every two years and the president is elected every four years. It's very frequently the case that in those midterm elections, the president and his party lose one or both houses of Congress. That's quite common. So it's quite possible that the Republicans could win in 2016, but I don't think the fact that they control both houses of Congress tells you much about whether they'll do that or not.

Well, it's been incredibly fun to work in a country that has the kind of relationship and the kind of affinity for America that Nigeria does. There are ups and downs and bumps in the road and all the rest, but the basic reality of the American-Nigerian relationship is that Nigerians like and respect the United States. There are a lot of Nigerians that have lived in the US or have traveled there. They know my country well. We share a language, and the affinities are very great. That makes it very easy to work here. I've had such great access. Doors are open everywhere. People are interested in the United States, they're interested in our programming, they're interested in what we're up to, and they're interested in our views. That has permitted me to meet a wide range of Nigerians of all stripes and all backgrounds. That has been a real privilege for me, and I really enjoyed that because this is such a super country. Working in a country like Nigeria for a country like the United States is really a dream come true for me.

Well, two very different questions. Yes, but I'll answer the first one first. First of all, there are certain assumptions in your question that I would challenge. Most Nigerians that apply for a US visa get it. We have worked incredibly hard over the three years that I've been here to reduce wait times and make sure that not only the Nigerians who are eligible get visas, but they get them in a timely basis. There have been some bumps on the road. For example, in the last few weeks, we've had some worldwide systems issues that have been getting in the way of doing that quickly. But generally speaking, we do a very good job on that. I also say, and I know this from personal experience, that Nigerian applicants, and there are many of them, and that's a great thing because Nigerians want to go to the US and we want to encourage that. We have a limited number of officers that do visas, so we need to move people through here quickly. But with that said, I know for a fact that Nigerians are treated with respect and dignity when they come here. To such an extent that a very famous Nigerian author who had written critically about, in fiction, about experience at the US consulate here, one day I said, 'Fine, I read what you had written. I want you to come down to the consular section with me. I promise you that I won't tell anybody that we're coming, and we'll just go down there and sit and listen to the officers interview, and then you tell me what you think.' And I could do that because there's downside risk to that. If I was wrong, that would have been a disaster. But I could do that because I knew with a hundred percent certainty that those officers were going to be polite and correct. They weren't going to issue every visa, but they were going to be polite and correct, as indeed they were when we were there. So I'm comfortable with where we are on visas. As far as the delicacies, I'm sort of a meat-and-potatoes sort of guy, so for me it's Star beer and suya. Yeah, every time.