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Michael Siegal
Executive Chairman of the Board, OLYMPIC STEEL INC

Michael Siegel, Chairman & CEO, Olympic Steel, Testimony

🎥 Apr 15, 2016 📺 AISISteel ⏱ 38m 👁 562 views
USTR/DOC Steel Hearing - April 12th, 2016.
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About Michael Siegal

Michael Siegal, executive chairman of Olympic Steel, has spoken about the impact of global steel overcapacity on the U.S. industry. In a 2016 testimony before U.S. trade officials, he stated that the crisis originated from "interventionist practices and policies of huge steel players like China," which he said had flooded markets with "dumped and subsidized imports." He called on the U.S. Trade Representative and the Commerce Department to strengthen enforcement of anti-dumping and countervailing duty laws. In a 2018 interview, Siegal said that China now produces ten times the amount of steel as the United States, and he described the situation as an "economic war on the industrial base." He also commented on the Cleveland economy, saying it had transitioned from an industrial town to a medical town, but expressed skepticism about the service economy, stating it is "trading the same dollar over and over again and not really generating GDP growth."

Source: AI-verified profile updated from Michael Siegal's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (18 segments)
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Michael Siegal0:00
Our next witness is Michael Siegel Trezza, excuse me. Our next witness is Michael Siegel, chairman and CEO of Olympic Steel. Thank you and thank you for your attention. Good afternoon. I am Michael Siegel, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of Olympic Steel Incorporated. On behalf of Olympic Steel, our nearly 2,000 employees, our customers, and our communities, I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the overcapacity crisis in the global steel production sector and how it is negatively impacting the American steel industry and the stakeholders I serve. This crisis has originated from the interventionist practices and policies of huge steel players like China, although not them exclusively, which has forced our industry and markets to become flooded with dumped and subsidized imports. As such, it is incumbent upon the United States, particularly the USTR and the Commerce Department, to immediately strengthen our enforcement of anti-dumping and countervailing duty laws to protect our jobs and communities and to work with other countries to stop and fix this current destructive situation. Olympic Steel is a publicly traded US taxpaying metal service center headquartered in Cleveland, Ohio. We specialize in the distribution and processing of large volumes of flat-rolled carbon, stainless, and aluminum sheet, plate, coil, pipe, and tubing products. These include hot-rolled, cold-rolled, and coated steels. Our customers include transportation equipment manufacturers, including automotive, truck, trailer, and rail manufacturers; construction and farm machinery; storage tanks; environmental and energy generation equipment; food service and electrical equipment. These are the largest manufacturers in their sectors, as well as general line small OEMs and fabricators. However, the global crisis of steel overcapacity is threatening our company just as it is threatening other segments of the US steel industry. As we are observing, the pricing and profitability of the entire domestic supply chain are all in danger from this onslaught. We are seeing the effects throughout industrial America, where many smaller players are continuing to go out of business. In addition, with the transfer of manufacturing abroad, also brought on by steel overcapacity in China and other countries, it is harder for us as distributors to find customers to which we can sell steel. The surge in China's steel production is unprecedented against any measure. In 2000, the steel capacities of the United States and China were almost the same. In 2015, however, Chinese steel production capacity increased by nearly a billion tons while American steel production has actually decreased. China must now export two to three times the total US consumption every single year. I ask you, where can that steel go in the world if not here, as it does even today? Despite assurances by the Chinese government, Chinese steel production is growing, threatening the entire world's industrial capacity. China refuses to enforce its environmental regulations, destroying our planet, nor does it enforce international safety standards, which is killing their own citizens. How long do they get to play the victim, claiming we had our turn at industrialization so we must let them have theirs? Forget the facade of the rule of law, forget the sanctity of intellectual property, forget cyber warfare. We just want the enforcement of our trade laws. You have the power to do something to save jobs here now. China's overcapacity is also having a noticeable cascading effect on the rest of the world as well. We are also seeing surges from other countries, particularly from Asia, which are using Chinese substrate and converting it into finished product in finishing facilities in their own country. This material arrives at our borders not as Chinese steel but from a country of origin like Vietnam, which has few steelmaking facilities. This cascading effect aggravates an already dire situation in the American steel industry and, moreover, is harming other developing nations. The overcapacity crisis has also reached other countries, including England. After announcing that the new Royal Navy frigates would be totally produced with foreign steel imports, Tata Steel UK has recently announced the permanent shuttering of their facilities in England, setting the overcapacity of China's steel sector and its damage to the local environment. I can only hope and maybe pray that we never find ourselves in a position where we must build our future military with imported steel because we couldn't take action now to preserve our steelmaking capacity. The overcapacity crisis has fueled an unprecedented surge of dumped, subsidized, and unfairly traded steel. Olympic Steel is a proud and longtime participant of this industry, supplying good wages, jobs, and long-term security to our employees and communities, but this situation is threatening our welfare and ability to prosper. This crisis is caused by foreign governments like China who seek to do us harm. It is the direct result of subsidies, a disregard for environmental regulation, currency manipulation, a lack of safety enforcement, and governmental access to capital for investment at below-market rates. One might even contemplate that this might be strategically designed to weaken our military and our ability to provide security to our shores. As such, the United States must assert its ability to both enforce its trade laws and coordinate with other fair-minded nations to immediately stop this destructive situation. Finally, the United States must not accept promises of action at some future date, which typically passes with nothing actually changing for our benefit. For the sake of our communities, our families, our security, please act now to save our steel industry before it disappears into a PBS historical narrative. Thank you.
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Jonathan Weisgall11:48
The final witness on this panel is Jonathan Weisgall, vice president of legislative and regulatory affairs, Berkshire Hathaway Energy. Thank you. I'm Jonathan Weisgall. I'm with Berkshire Hathaway Energy, a global energy company headquartered in Des Moines, Iowa. Our companies have more than 11.5 million customers and end users worldwide, and approximately one-third of our electricity generating capacity comes from renewable energy resources such as wind, water, solar, and geothermal. Our Midwest utility, MidAmerican Energy Company, is ranked first in the nation in ownership of wind-powered electric generation among rate-regulated utilities, and our Western-based energy company, PacificCorp, is ranked second. Your hearing today and tomorrow from many US steel companies and their unions concerning the importance of steel to our economy and to America's competitiveness in global markets. I want to give you a different perspective: that of the importance of this industry to another huge part of our economy, the electric energy sector, and specifically the importance of the steel industry to America's goal of reducing our greenhouse gas emissions through the use of renewable energy resources. Another take on the environmental angle you heard from the last panel. Based on the most recent data from the Census Bureau's Annual Survey of Manufacturers, the US steel industry made $3.6 billion in electricity purchases in 2013. So as you hear about potential job losses in the steel sector, let me explain the ripple effect over to the electric energy sector. These electricity purchases of $3.6 billion supported over 4,500 direct jobs in the electricity industry and over 16,000 indirect and induced jobs. That is employment arising from the spending and investment activities of these energy companies elsewhere in the economy, and also resulted in the generation of $500 million in federal tax revenue and $650 million in state and local tax revenue. Now, one of these companies is Illinois-based SSAB Americas. Their steel mill in Iowa is one of MidAmerican Energy Company's top customers for both natural gas and electric usage, and one of our largest users of our energy efficiency programs. Many of the mill's approximately 500 employees are also MidAmerican Energy residential customers. So to state the obvious but important point, the loss of one of these jobs doesn't just affect SSAB; it has a ripple effect throughout Iowa's economy, and the same can be said of every other steel job in this country. Let me turn to my second point. The US steel industry is not just another customer of electric energy companies; it plays a critical role in the sweeping changes we're seeing throughout America as more and more energy companies are deploying renewable energy resources. So let me drill down on one of those resources: wind. Our MidAmerican Energy utility has invested about $6 billion in wind energy just in Iowa since 2004. We're going to have more than 4,000 megawatts of wind capacity online by 2017. That's the equivalent of about 57% of all our retail sales. And steel is the key. Virtually every part of a wind turbine—the tower, the nacelle, the rotor, the foundation—depends on steel, and a typical steel wind turbine contains about 90% steel. At the top of the tower, you've got the rotor and the nacelle. The nacelle houses the generator, the gearbox, the drivetrain, the brake assembly, which can weigh as much as 300 tons. Steel's strength makes it ideal for that frame, for the housing, and for the machinery. It also houses high-value specialty steel tailored to producing the specific magnetic properties that make wind energy possible. Behind the blades, there's a low-speed shaft which transfers the rotational force of the rotor to the gearbox, and those gears use precision tools and special hardened steel components. And the generator, which converts the mechanical energy captured by the blades into electrical energy, is about 65% steel. The blades are normally made of other materials like carbon fiber or alloys, but steel also holds those blades in place as they turn using cast iron or forged steel rotor hub. Steel also plays a very important supporting role in other applications for wind, ranging from the crane booms made of ultra-high-strength steel to construct these wind towers, to transmission and distribution lines to move the wind-generated electricity to load centers. As you've heard, steel is infinitely recyclable, so it has a limited environmental impact. Recovery of the material at the end of its useful life also helps recover upfront costs due to the value of steel scrap. Now, of course, there are thousands of uses of steel in America, but as you consider your policy recommendations, I urge you to keep in mind both the cascading impact of the steel industry on other sectors of the US economy and the critical role steel plays in helping to further our nation's clean energy goals. I'd be pleased to answer any questions you have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes direct testimony from this panel.
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Chairman17:11
Thank you, and let me thank each member of the panel for your thoughtful testimony as well as for coming to appear before us today. Mr. Cooper, I wanted to follow up on the Hudson Yards project. You mentioned there were two countries that wound up gaining the bid for supplying the commercial building. Correct?
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Cooper17:29
That was Turkey. No, I actually was a Mexican company who was using as their raw material source steel from China. It was produced in China. And then the other one was an Italian company that was buying plate primarily from Europe that we feel had to be subsidized.
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Chairman17:52
So can you elaborate a little bit on the indirect effects there of what appear to be the overcapacity issue located in China and other countries? And the other question, perhaps from your Italian supplier.
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Cooper18:08
Sure. Well, specifically with regards to the Hudson Yards project, it's a good example. The Chinese, as has been stated in earlier testimony, they're afraid to dump some of the structural plate directly into the US, so they're circumventing that exposure by selling it to a Mexican company. The Mexican company then fabricates it, essentially adds value to it like we do—we go together to assemble into a frame for a building—and then they transport that to New York in that case. What took place with that project, they actually were somewhat in concert with this Italian company. They both furnished that same project together and split it in parts. But again, they're buying their mill sources from—and I'll elaborate on the Italian company a little bit—they're buying their raw material sources from Europe, from Austria, Spain, and Italy primarily. What they do, which I'm not sure if any of the beam producers have been here and testified today, but Nucor, for example, produces wide flange beams that we use in buildings being constructed around Washington. That's the primary plate of the two primary raw material sources that we use to fabricate. We do the detailing engineering, fabricate to those details, the structural steel that then goes up into a building frame. What the Italian company has done is, because they don't have that beam-making capacity, they have it available in Europe through mills and other sources. But what leads us to be pretty convinced that the material they're using is subsidized is that they're actually buying raw plate from those three countries that I mentioned, and they ship that plate to one of their factories. They actually build the wide flange section itself, so they have a whole labor-making operation that we don't have when we buy from Nucor, SDI, or Gerdau. So they have that whole labor operation added to their cost structure that we don't have. They build the shape out of plate, they have a whole other handling operation where they take that section they've now built, load it up, ship it to another plant, fabricate it there, put it on a boat in a northern Italian port, ship it all the way to Wilmington, Delaware, unload it, stage it in New Jersey, and then ship it into the job site in Manhattan. So again, both those two companies and their pricing—what I alluded to in my testimony was, if I took the entire labor factor out of my cost estimate, in other words, I gave the labor for free to the developer building that project and all I charged him for was the raw material that I bought from the three mills here domestically and the plate that I bought from a couple of other mills, plus the transportation involved to get it there, I still could not have competed on that job. That's how low they were, and that's even with the additional cost that they had that I don't have from shipping across two oceans or shipping across one ocean to Mexico and then they rail it and truck it all the way to New York. There's just no way for that to be sustainable and for that to be on a cost basis anywhere equal to ours.
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Chairman21:29
Thank you. That's very helpful.
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Ron Lorenson21:34
Thank you, and thank you for your testimony as well. I'd like to focus on a question that this panel has touched on a bit more than the previous one, and that is what's generally referred to as the international engagement that's needed to get at the underlying capacity problem worldwide. We've talked a little bit about China, but we've also talked about other countries where this capacity is developed through government support and other means. I think Mr. Winkler, you used the term 'seeking binding commitment.' So whether from you or from other panelists, it would be interesting for me to know a little bit more about what kind of commitments you think would be most useful and achievable, how they might be made binding, and how best to go about seeking those with our partners who are obviously all affected by this phenomenon but react in different ways than perhaps the way the United States has reacted in terms of trade defense. Thank you.
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Winkler22:41
Well, maybe I could start by recognizing that this is a difficult problem. So I understand that we're not asking everyone here to do something easy. Dealing with not just China but Korea, Turkey, Japan, India—often countries that are very close to us—is difficult. I'm a former naval officer, and I have two brothers who spent time in Korea and Japan in the Navy and the Army, and I understand how important they are, as is Turkey's position as potentially a bulwark against ISIS. The issue in terms of getting any kind of binding commitments, I believe the United States and the administration probably require a fair bit of leverage to do something that both works for the United States and for those countries and is enforceable within the construct of the WTO. So we recognize this is complicated. But if you do look back in history, whether it's in the 1980s when there was an agreement reached with Japan on restraint of automobiles coming in, there's one template that could be considered. I think there could be other templates similar to that. They have essentially some sort of bilateral agreement with the United States. Of course, the State Department will know far better than a steel industry guy how those sorts of things could be done. But I believe that the United States will need some sort of binding pressure associated with that, with very hard limits, or it's unlikely to succeed.
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Michael Siegal24:35
Yeah, I would agree with Mr. Winkler. I would add, though, through our industry associations, which I know you've heard from, and also association counterparts in other countries—not only our partners in NAFTA, Canada, and Mexico, but the Latin American steel industry and also Europe—have also expressed concerns. In having dialogue, we certainly would be willing to participate as an industry association in providing information and discussion wherever those forums might be to reach a solution. I think it may be debated in different parts of the world whether overcapacity is 500 million metric tons or 700 million metric tons, but I think there's full agreement as to the crisis we've reached in overcapacity. It is not good for the global economics of any steel-producing nation around the world. So I would hope, and as I mentioned, certainly recognize that this problem exists in other steel-producing countries and associations that I would expect would be willing to participate as well.
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Paul Brown26:13
Thank you. Paul Brown with the Department of State. Thank you. Just a question for the panel, but maybe starting with Mr. Schmidt. You've all mentioned the overcapacity problem in China and beyond China. What is your understanding of the specific reasons for that overcapacity in China and elsewhere?
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Schmidt26:48
No, I'm sorry. I think getting to the specific reasons really boils down to an economic agenda, if not a government agenda, in securing its own manufacturing footprint. Certainly, many countries around the world, and particularly as the US was built on a very strong manufacturing base to support infrastructure, military, as well as many other needs of a steel industry. But recognizing the extent of the volumes that are consumed externally and available in trade around the world is a difficult question. So I'm not sure I could answer you to those specific intentions. But without a doubt, when there is investment and government subsidies to the scale that has been shown, particularly in China where they now produce as much steel as the entire rest of the steel-producing world, clearly it's a different agenda than just internal uses and internal support of the instrument of local infrastructure.
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Cooper28:35
If I could just add, having spent a fair bit of time in China over the last decade, just an observation would be that a lot of the development of large manufacturing companies and steel industry happens for really a variety of reasons. It's not just a national goal or even a regional goal; often it's local, regional, and national altogether. If you look, for example, as you move a little bit offshore in China, there have clearly been stated objectives of developing certain cities and considerably growing the jobs in those cities, especially when there's such a huge difference between the east coast of China and just a little bit inland in terms of wages, employment, etc. So what I've seen is a combination of money provided by the provinces, banks being asked or demanded to loan money at certain interest rates, the power bills being demanded to be significantly subsidized, cost of infrastructure, of transportation, for workforce. All of these things essentially being provided. When you add up the whole picture, the actual amount of risk that the company had to make when it made those investments is incredibly low. There really isn't any if it's a state-owned enterprise. The only risk-taker is really the government in it, and that's what we have to compete against. That's led to these massive developments, in addition to the high expectation of Chinese industrial growth continuing at 7 to 10 percent, which I think we all know now was not realistic. In countries like Korea, it's actually more difficult to see. I think often there are handshake agreements about making sure that loans are backstopped, and this makes it a very attractive investment opportunity. If we all had very low interest rate loans available to us without risk, it would probably change our investment tactics as well.
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Winkler30:47
China is obviously a complex country, so it'd be difficult to actually answer your question effectively. I'm not sure that anybody is truly a China expert. I mean, I've read Kissinger's book on China, which is a very profound book in terms of their long-term interests, how they view their status in the world, and their status according to history. But obviously, the central government and everybody can define it differently. One might call it a totalitarian capitalist society, among other definitions. But it seemed to be that if you go back over the last 20 years, China would come out with some prediction about their growth. It would always be somewhere in the 7 to 10 range, then it would come out 20, or maybe they'd go 12 and it'd be 25, and then now it's 7 to 10 and now it's 2 or 3 or negative. I think you saw that the national government of China controls the ports, but what you saw was a lot of regional politicians who wanted to create status in their own particular political career and/or economic gain. So what you saw was China would come out with this prediction of what their steel production would be next year or in two years, and it would literally be double what they said it was. Now, it's hard to build 100 million tons of capacity in steel without anybody noticing, but somehow it seemed like every four years they would increase by 100 million tons and nobody knew how it got there. So I would just say it's hard to understand what their rationale is. One would say employment, and they would go, you know, if not for the employment they'd have revolution in the streets because they brought people off the farms to the cities. We can argue the same thing here. I would just argue that China has a very long-term view in terms of their status in the world. I think that they believe that they are special people, much as we Americans do as well. I think the Chinese believe that they are special, and I think that they have a long-term strategy to be a dominant force in the world, and they're going to do it from any variety of different mechanisms to capture the economics of the world for the benefit of their own people.
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Greg Shepley32:48
Thank you so much. Greg Shepley. Thank you, Chair, and thank you panel for your testimony. I'd like to raise a question within the panel to get your views about the process of seeking import relief. Often it's not timely, it's costly, and so forth. Mr. Winkler, and this morning Mr. Tom mentioned how other countries have responded more quickly to seek import relief for their companies. Let's get your reactions on that.
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Winkler33:40
Well, just, you know, obviously different countries have a different set of laws around this internally, and then also I think there's a different set of risk of what would happen if there was an appeal to WTO and factors such as that. I think have a major effect on their speed. But for example, in Mexico recently, where they've decided they're going to build their natural gas infrastructure, they've decided there's going to be major pipe infrastructure. As they were contemplating that, the industry came to the government and said, 'We need to be able to do these investments and make them profitable. We're going to need some help.' And thus, I think in terms of the time and the severity, there was this 50% tariff placed on, I believe, all of the US large-diameter pipe producers in a very short period of time. I think that Ambassador Froman's team probably could comment more on whether that holds up to WTO or what happens if those are appealed. But I can tell you that we have no intention of appealing it. It would cost us millions of dollars to go through a process like that with an uncertain result. So just as one example.
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Michael Siegal35:19
You asked about the process. I think when you go back to our founders, the founders of the country decided that our government was going to be deliberative, that it was going to be a slow, deliberative government. Quite frankly, I think that's a very good way to do it. So the process could always be frustrating for those of us who run businesses and make decisions literally by the minute, sometimes by the second. To sit here and say, 'Boy, this is really inefficient,' would not do justice to the process. I think the process is important. What we do here is a rule of law, and we're trying to understand the framework in which this is not just frivolous but in fact is a very serious and dire issue. So I think the process is very important, and I think the process here is very well done. I think other countries have their process, which is not for us to comment on, but the deliberative process generally works well. I would not want to leave this opportunity without also recognizing the good work done by legislators and our representatives in adding to the tools in the toolbox here recently and what was accomplished in some very important new trade legislation for the first time in 20 years. So we thank the administration and everyone involved in that. I think it's difficult to compare what other countries might see and how they take action within their own borders on illegal trade practices. We recognize it's a difficult process, but I know having heard testimony from the previous panel, and you've heard it all, that it's extremely frustrating when you're looking at the eyes of your employees and you've got a mill with no load on it and you're sending people home. That brings an urgency to the situation. But we recognize a process needs to be followed, but again, always seeking out more effective tools, being efficient, and being more responsive should always be our goal.
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Chairman37:37
So I want to thank the panel for really very revealing testimony and then answers to questions on commercial issues, technological issues, business issues, as well as policy issues, which are very useful to us. Mr. Schmidt mentioned members of Congress. It's possible that we will be joined by some, but now we need to take a five-minute break. After the panel leaves, I understand the camera has to reboot its film. So with thanks to all of you again, we'll take a five-minute break and resume.