Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer, LIGHT & WONDER INC
Oliver Chow - Dive into essential leadership insights in this inspiring episode!
Sally with Oliver - Sally Allen Podcast is thrilled to release our 101st episode featuring the remarkable Oliver Chow! Oliver is the ...
About Oliver Chow
Oliver Chow, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer at Light & Wonder, appeared on the Sally Allen Podcast in late 2024 to discuss leadership, culture, and career development. Chow stated that he prioritizes culture and fit over capabilities when hiring, describing it as "51%" of what he looks for, and said he aims to foster a "high-dynamic team with no ego." He also said he encourages employees at any level to speak up with ideas, adding that he does not care about a person's title or tenure. Chow discussed his approach to leadership, saying he wants to empower his team for their next roles and that he is "never the smartest person in the room," relying on preparation and hard work. He advised young professionals to experiment early in their careers and to find a passion that marries their interests with their work. Chow also noted the importance of surrounding oneself with good people and making decisions as a unified team, even when there is disagreement.
Transcript (45 segments)
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Sally Allen0:01
Welcome to the Sally Allen Podcast. It's Sally Allen, your host here again. Today I am incredibly happy to let you know we have a wonderful guest. His name is Oliver Chow. We met at our former job and I knew him a little bit back then, but he is pretty interesting. He doesn't think he is, but I think he's a pretty interesting person. He's the CFO of Light & Wonder and he has two girls in the other room watching him, so he's on best behavior. Oliver, welcome to the Sally Allen Podcast. I'm so glad you're here.
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Oliver Chow0:34
Yeah, thank you Sally. This is great. I appreciate you inviting a finance guy to the show. Are finance guys boring? Is that what you're saying?
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Sally Allen0:45
Yeah, we have a bit of a stigma, you know. Finance, accounting... not the most exciting. I thought it was HR? No, HR is very dynamic. Finance has a reputation, but I try to break the mold. I like it! Very interesting. I didn't know this because I don't interview my guests or talk to them before we get on camera, but Oliver just said, hey, I was an aspiring filmmaker. We open with that! How about that? Loosely speaking, yes. Tell us about that for a minute.
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Oliver Chow1:18
Growing up, my dad was a finance guy, so being the good Chinese son, I followed in his footsteps. But he was in the entertainment space for many years. He worked for Marvel Comics, for special effects companies—they did the special effects for the original Predator movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger—and he started a company that did The Matrix. So I've always had an aspiration for movies, film, TV. I moved out to LA, went to the New York Film Academy, went to UCLA for cinematography, bought all this equipment, had this dream. Then I was fortunate to have my oldest daughter Addison at that point, and I said I probably need to stick with my day job. Here I am. I think it's all worked out, but I still have that itch every once in a while to shoot a film.
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Sally Allen2:29
That is such an interesting background. I didn't even know that your dad helped—what did you say, produce some of these films? No, he was a finance guy. He's a finance guy. Oh, that's interesting. So you followed in his footsteps in a different industry? Well, not really different. I was in post-production, entertainment for a little bit, then went to Aristocrat where you and I met. Wow, very interesting background. I'm glad you shared that. Not many people will know that. Are you okay with it going out to the public?
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Oliver Chow3:06
Oh absolutely, no, it's all good. Aspiring filmmaker, and my oldest daughter killed my dreams. Addison, I know you're in the other room there—he's just kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah, or is he going to have to pay for years of therapy? Exactly.
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Sally Allen3:27
Growing up, I just had one of my friends who was Asian, and she said my dad wanted me to follow in his footsteps and be a doctor. Your dad was a finance person. Did he propel you—like, hey, you got to be a finance person—or was that something you came into on your own?
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Oliver Chow3:45
Growing up, I looked up to my dad a lot. My mom was an accountant as well, both finance and numbers people. I used to go to work with him on weekends, just like my girls came to work with me today. That's how I developed my work ethic. I always loved money, so it was natural. I was good with numbers. I watched my dad interact with the business—not just counting numbers, but driving strategy and outcomes. That stuck with me. My sister went a different way, she became a nurse practitioner, one of the top in the country at Lenox Hill in New York. We both made our parents proud.
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Sally Allen4:56
So you are a pretty young CFO, right? I don't feel young anymore. You don't feel young anymore after being in a role for a while, takes years off of you. But you're pretty young. From what you said, you watched your dad's work ethic and that's part of what got you where you are. What are some of those things? If somebody is watching this, maybe a manager aspiring to be where you are today, what advice would you give them?
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Oliver Chow5:34
There's a lot there. I just had a skip level with one of my colleagues this morning and we talked about this. I know for a fact that I'm never the smartest person in the room. So for me, it's how do I outwork everyone, how do I prepare and overprepare. When I was a senior analyst or junior manager, I focused on getting my day-to-day responsibilities in good shape and then working harder to get on stretch projects to build my brand and reputation across the business. If you have the space and capacity, always challenge yourself and put yourself in uncomfortable positions. That's how you continue to grow.
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Sally Allen7:03
So I'm hearing you say stepping out of your comfort zone, but also going the extra mile and going above and beyond. I'm coaching an executive who didn't think he needed coaching, but once we started talking, he realized he's very high performing and he measures people by his own standards. That frustrated him. He's starting to realize not everyone can be like him. How do you mitigate that? How do you manage that?
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Oliver Chow8:44
Everyone has their own style and approach. For me, there are core principles and foundational things that are non-negotiable. Outside of that, everyone has a different journey. There's not one path to CFO or CEO. I tell my team, take your pivot lefts. Everyone thinks they need the next promotion up the same path, but it's the journey taking you left and right that gives you well-rounded experience. Don't be afraid to pivot left, and as a leader, allow flexibility for people to attack things in different ways.
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Sally Allen9:47
I like what you said about foundational values you won't compromise on. But when it comes to work style, everyone's different. Even work-life balance looks different to everyone. What does that look like for you? You said work isn't work, but at your level you're super busy. How do you manage so you don't burn out?
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Oliver Chow10:44
You have to be intentional carving out time, especially with my family—my wife and two daughters. I can get wrapped up because it doesn't feel like work, but I have to be intentional. My wife keeps me honest, my daughters give me feedback—'Dad, you haven't hung out with us in a while.' Those things remind me to carve out time for myself and my family. It's hard as you get more senior because you feel the weight of responsibility. But I have a great leader, Matt Wilson, who cares deeply about his family and carving out time. That's the culture we want to build. We work hard, we play hard. I tell my team, find time for yourself. We're not curing world hunger—we make games for a living.
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Sally Allen12:28
I love that. I love that we talk about Matt Wilson because what happens at the top funnels down. Setting that example and giving people permission to take time off when he does—being that charismatic leader—we all know he is. I hate you for that, Matt! Cut that out of the clip. No, but you're 100% right. It starts with Jamie and Tony at the top of the board, then Matt, yourself, and the executive leadership team. I was talking to you on Zoom a couple of weeks ago and got the impression that you're a very people-centric leader and care a lot about your people. With that said, what do you find is your biggest challenge when it comes to your team and leading people?
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Oliver Chow14:23
First and foremost, surround yourself with good people. Culture and fit are 51% and capabilities 49%. Having respectful people who challenge you in a respectful way, have fun, don't take ourselves too seriously, and hold ourselves accountable makes it easier. I was lucky to take over a team that was great across the board. The biggest challenge is keeping the team engaged. They're senior, very experienced experts. As a leader, how do I set them up for the next position? I've had great leaders like Daryl Cross and Connie James who gave me opportunities to elevate, and I want to do that for my team. When you have a high-performing team, how do keep them motivated, engaged, and developing, and set them up to take my job eventually? That's my goal.
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Sally Allen16:33
Setting a succession plan and not holding on, not being afraid someone will take your job, being proud to set them up—that's so important. You see so many people holding on and not empowering others. Who would you say impacted you the most throughout your career in a positive way?
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Oliver Chow17:52
I've been so lucky. Daryl, Connie, Matt has been inspirational, Tony Corsos who was the CFO of Aristocrat. But I think my dad has been the one person. I've seen the good and the challenges, and he's been so supportive. My parents have been supportive over the years. I definitely would not be where I am today—my personality, work ethic, how I developed as a father—that's all because of them first and foremost. So I would say my parents.
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Sally Allen18:51
When you look back on your career, 10 years ago, did you aspire to be a CFO?
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Oliver Chow18:57
That's always been the end goal for me. It came back from watching my dad. I knew very early on, through high school and college, that I wanted to be a CFO. Everything in my career has been to get to that ultimate goal. I've been so lucky and fortunate to get the CFO role at Light & Wonder. What a wild ride it's been.
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Sally Allen19:33
That's incredible. I know a lot of young kids coming out of college—young adults—they don't know what they'll do. I saw you spoke at UNLV about future business leaders. You identified your North Star early. You know the saying, you will miss every target you can't see. What advice would you give to them if they're trying to figure out their North Star?
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Oliver Chow20:10
It's such a different world now. There's so much information. Kids today change what they want every day—musician, golfer, volleyball player, actor. It's hard to dial in. Because I was fortunate to have my North Star early, I'd say when you're younger, you can take more risks. Experiment with what interests you and how to make it a career. Don't wait too long. Start to formulate some general direction. Coming out of school, experiment—that's when you can be riskier before you have family and real responsibility. Once you narrow the scope, it's go time. Don't stop, work your butt off.
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Sally Allen22:10
It seems to me like you have a very resilient mindset. I try, not always. When it comes to mindset, what encouragement would you give to someone to build that mindset of work ethic and moving forward?
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Oliver Chow22:48
Don't do anything half-ass. Pour your heart into it. Find something you truly enjoy and love. That's corny but true. For me, being in the entertainment space but in finance married a couple of passions. Even in gaming, we provide entertainment. Go full charge ahead, don't leave anything on the table. Also be open to feedback and different ideas. Be a lifelong learner. I know I'm never the smartest person in the room, so I always attack it from that point of view.
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Sally Allen24:59
I really like that. You continue to learn and grow when you're out of college, no matter what job you're at because you can lead from anywhere, any position. Absolutely. So you have two daughters. I'm sure you're noticing they have different personalities. Some people are born to lead, some just want to follow. Would you say even if you're born to lead, you have to continue to grow and educate yourself to become that transparent people leader?
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Oliver Chow27:00
I'll highlight my two daughters. Addison is more of an extrovert, very gregarious, an A-type personality—fierce, and sometimes that gets her into trouble. Zoe, my youngest, is much more of an introvert, but very smart, scans the situation, reads the room well. Two very different personalities, but the core principles are consistent—they're good humans first. There's a thought that loud extroverts are the best leaders, but I don't know if that's always the case. Look at Siobhan Lane—she's not an extrovert. I'm more of a high-functioning introvert. You can find leadership in any shape or form. Find your voice, and it doesn't have to be the loudest voice. When you speak, make it impactful. I don't think anyone is born to lead; you develop it and have to evolve over time.
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Sally Allen29:30
I love that. When you speak, make it impactful. So there's a balance. I don't think there is a person born to lead; you develop and learn. You have to evolve your leadership. If you're fortunate to align with the right people to help navigate, that's a beautiful thing. But it's always up to you. You own your path, your development, and how you show up. Your development is your responsibility.
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Oliver Chow30:20
Yes, absolutely. What I say to my team is, as a leader, it's not my responsibility to drag you up. Meet me halfway. If you meet me halfway, it's my responsibility to meet you and help you in your journey. Surround yourself with good people and great companies aligned with your values. Work your butt off, make a name for yourself, execute at a high level, and take advantage of every opportunity.
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Sally Allen31:17
I want an example. When you say 'meet me halfway,' what does that mean?
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Oliver Chow33:25
If you were my manager, I wouldn't force stretch roles on you. If you come to me and say, 'Oliver, I'm executing at a high level and I want to aspire to become CFO or something, help me map that out,' then I'm happy to sit with you. We have quarterly skip levels and career discussions. I've had many folks who worked for me, and when an opportunity arises, I think, 'This would be a great opportunity for Sally to expand her experience.' So meet me halfway—get your fundamentals done, then seek out those experiences, and I'm all in to support that.
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Sally Allen35:07
What are two traits you would say are the highest traits of a great leader?
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Oliver Chow35:40
Being nimble is a great trait—flexible to move up, down, left, right because the business world is dynamic. Also having the ability to connect with people and be a visionary leader who inspires. I've learned that planting a flag on the hill is important. Creating experiences and opportunities for your team is crucial to developing a dynamic team. If you don't give them opportunities, you'll have churn and instability.
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Sally Allen37:56
What would you say to younger Oliver if you could give him a piece of advice?
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Oliver Chow38:16
Trust yourself a bit more. Growing up, I was very insecure, and I still am to a degree. Trust that you're good enough and keep doing what you're doing. Good things will happen. Early in my career, I cared a lot about what people thought. As I've grown into this role, I'd tell my younger self, 'You got this. Don't doubt it, just trust it.' That's what derails a lot of younger folks—they expect instant gratification. Trust that you'll mess up sometimes, and it'll be okay.
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Sally Allen39:55
How did you build your self-confidence over the years?
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Oliver Chow40:08
It's a lifelong journey. I'm still working through it. Surround yourself with people who give it to you straight—the good, the bad, the ugly. Those experiences where you trip and fall, you say, 'I'm not going to let that happen again,' and you keep moving forward. Don't let failure defeat you. There are no shortcuts in life for anything meaningful. The falls, the rises, the sideways loops build character and experience that take you to future heights.
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Sally Allen41:37
I like that. I see it as lessons learned, which build self-confidence. You can look at it as if I keep making this mistake, it's just a lesson learned and I can move on. Surrounding yourself with great people and great leaders gives you space to do that and pick you up.
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Oliver Chow41:55
Yeah, allowing people the space to learn, not to fail but to learn. It's hard when you're consumed in day-to-day targets, but good leaders allow that space. To younger folks, you will mess up and learn a lot of lessons. Those who use that as fuel to move forward versus feeling defeated—that's what I try to teach my daughters. Not everything is rainbows and butterflies. If you allow that to defeat you, shame on you. Nothing worthwhile is easy.
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Sally Allen43:13
Is there anything you want to talk about that I haven't asked you?
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Oliver Chow44:01
You've talked about my aspiring filmmaking career—I think everybody needs to know that.
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Sally Allen44:17
Do you want to give us a quick takeaway for the audience?
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Oliver Chow44:23
I've been following your journey here, and it's amazing. I still remember the first time I met you when you were supporting Rich Schneider. The growth you've seen is an inspiration. To everyone else, find your passion, find what you're quote-unquote born to do. You're a coach helping people, and that's an amazing thing. Marry things you love to do and do good. Find your passion and don't stop.
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Sally Allen45:18
Well, thank you Oliver. This was really good. I think there are some good points here for any of the young folks listening—some lessons they can learn from this. Thanks again. Appreciate you.
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Oliver Chow45:30
Thank you for having me.
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Sally Allen45:35
And with that friends, it's a wrap today.