Executive Vice President & Chief People Officer, CROCS INC
Riderflex Podcast - Guest Interview #364 - Shannon Sisler
Shannon Sisler, Crocs Executive Vice President | The Riderflex Podcast Welcome back to the Riderflex podcast for the second ...
About Shannon Sisler
Shannon Sisler, Executive Vice President and Chief People Officer at Crocs, has discussed the company’s approach to workplace flexibility, employee engagement, and the use of artificial intelligence in human resources. In a September 2023 podcast, Sisler described Crocs’ use of a “persona-based” model that assigns roles to one of four categories—Resident, Explorer, Collaborator, or Connector—to determine remote work expectations based on job responsibilities rather than employee preference. She stated that maintaining in-person collaboration at least three days a week is important for preserving company cultureastra. Sisler also said Crocs uses AI tools such as ChatGPT to draft job descriptions, but emphasized the need to add a human touch to reflect the company’s culture and values. She described herself as “a business person who happens to do HR” and said she focuses on enterprise leadership and creating people practices that drive business results. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Sisler said Crocs donated 860,000 pairs of shoes with a retail value of $40 million through its “Free Pair for Healthcare” initiative, an effort she said brought pride to the workforce. She noted that the company conducted frequent town halls with its global workforce to share what was known and unknown, and to answer questions. Sisler has also discussed the importance of listening to employees through surveys and frontline manager conversations, setting high but achievable expectations, and providing employees with the “why” behind their work. She has advised individuals seeking career advancement to identify what they are genuinely interested in and to focus on their strengths, stating that “if you like what you’re doing, you’re most likely going to be much better at it.”
Transcript (47 segments)
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Steve Urban0:00
Hi folks, Steve Urban here, founder and CEO at Riderflex. We hope you enjoyed today's podcast. As a reminder, please subscribe to the Riderflex Show for updates on new episodes. And by the way, if you haven't already, check out the book we recently launched, The Riderflex Guide to Inspiring and Hiring, available for purchase on Amazon. Now a quick word from our sponsor: try the number one marketing platform for small business. Everything you need from design to marketing to CRM. Learn more at marketing360.com. Marketing360, fuel your brand.
You know you're in so many different countries. How many languages do you speak? Or do you have a partner in each country that translates for you? I'm just curious.
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Shannon Sisler0:42
Unfortunately, just a little bit of Spanish that I got to try out in recent travels. But I think one of the things I really try to do as I travel is find those partners that are going to be with me around the globe and help me understand the local cultures. I'm fortunate in my professional career; I think I've traveled to over 75 countries over the years, being with very big global companies. But every time I go, it's about learning, adapting, understanding the culture, and also really trying to show up not too American in our ways of working and thought process, which all of us have to think about as we work as global stewards.
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Steve Urban1:24
Off the top of your head, any fun stories where you made some sort of faux pas? You did something against a culture that you didn't know about, and later on somebody's telling you about it?
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Shannon Sisler1:35
There's always a few of those. But I would say something I'm super mindful of is when I travel in Asia, just showing up as a female senior leader. How is that embraced in different cultures? How do you give a business card with two hands? How do you provide eye contact or not provide eye contact? Where do you sit in the room? These are all things that I genuinely think about and have been fortunate over my years to have some tips and tricks that we have in different tools that I actually read on the plane on the way to remind me of some of those cultural nuances as we're traveling. So that's something I have to continuously focus on, to be honest.
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Steve Urban2:10
I didn't know about the business card with two hands. Is that just in China, or is that everywhere in Asia?
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Shannon Sisler2:16
It's pretty prevalent across Asia. It depends on the country, but it's very common.
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Steve Urban2:22
Didn't know that. Okay, good to know. Good news if we ever have to do any recruiting over there for our recruiting firm and I'm trying to land the deal. You just taught me a tip I didn't know. So yeah, good to know.
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Shannon Sisler2:35
You have to, and you still need a business card in a lot of settings. In America, with COVID and all of our digital shift, we don't have business cards. But still in Asia, that's something that is appreciated, though potentially changing with the trends. But I think that's still a show of respect to understand who you're meeting with. So good lessons learned.
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Steve Urban2:54
Interesting. You mentioned that. I haven't carried around cards in so long because I'm usually either I have a QR code or something on my phone. Every once in a while I'll take cards. Oh wow. Employee retention overseas in the other countries, what do you see compared to the US? I'm just curious. In all your other locations, is it similar or totally different? Talk to me about that.
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Shannon Sisler3:17
I think it really depends on the country. We have seen retention evolve as we've gone through the pandemic in all the different countries. I really think it depends on the worker type. At Crocs Inc, we've got people in our retail stores, our distribution centers, and our corporate functions, and you see different trends across those. In places like China, it's very typical to get a new job every one to two years, so you are out recruiting more. You see different employee trends in that market versus America, which might be more two or three years for corporate jobs. For retail stores and distribution centers with more hourly workers, those trends really depend on location. We've got some countries where people are staying for a very long time in a retail store, maybe even a long part of their career, versus a seasonal worker in different parts of the world. So it really depends, but that's something we monitor quite a bit and see how the trends are changing. They have changed over time with the pandemic. Some people stayed put, while others were encouraged to look for a new job. So we're really watching those trends and reacting to them.
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Steve Urban4:35
How do we keep retail workers longer? What is the magic formula for retail companies to keep people longer? My wife worked at Marshalls for almost 20 years, and I was in retail for many years before starting Riderflex. I think it's much worse now than it was then, at least it feels that way. I don't know, you probably know the stats better than me, but I think it's worse now. How do we keep retail workers longer? What's the magic, Shannon?
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Shannon Sisler5:07
Yeah, we do well. I think it's quite a formula and something that we look at often to see how we refine our value proposition for retail workers. In the Crocs brand, we're very fortunate in the US, where we have most of our stores. If you look at our store managers, we've got great average tenure. One of the things we've figured out in the secret sauce is just making it a meaningful work environment. We've heard from our retail workers that our store environment is super fun, casual, and 'come as you are' is alive and well. They really enjoy interacting with the customers. We have what we call Jibbitz bars, where you go get the charms and put them on our shoes. People are constantly telling stories: 'I want the donut because I love donuts,' 'I want the palm tree because I just want a vacation.' They've learned to really engage in those conversations, so they're not just schlepping product. Instead, they're having an experience with a customer. I think that's been important. But you also have to make the experience worthwhile. You've got to be paying right. You've also got to find ways to quickly hire people. Gone are the days of a two or three week interview process for retail. People go in in the morning and say, 'I want to work this shift tonight.' You've got to be nimble enough to properly assess those people, make sure they're ready for the job, get them on board, and try them out. So agility and making it a meaningful work experience is key. You might plan on them only being there for a quick holiday season, but you still want that to be a special experience. Or if they're going to be there for the next five years, that experience obviously looks different. So really tuning into what individuals want and need, and how we as an employer can provide that, is a great thing to focus on.
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Steve Urban7:12
When did no-call, no-shows become part of the culture at associate level? When did that happen? Because it wasn't like that when I was a store manager.
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Shannon Sisler7:24
No-call, no-show is something we deal with as well. I would say we see that a bit more in the distribution centers than our retail stores. However, I think it became more of a thing when the switching costs were so easy. When you could walk across the street and get a dollar more and get a job by that night, if you didn't like the shift or the work environment, you'd say, 'I'm done, I'll go find another job.' It's really important to get feedback from those people, which we've done a lot of work on to understand why they no-call, no-show, so we can modify our employment practices to reduce that, because it really does impact the business. It's a practice that a lot of companies are experiencing, and yet we've got to manage it.
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Steve Urban8:18
One more question on that topic, then we'll move away from it. I want to ask this as an ops person to an HR person. I was an ops executive before, so I was a little more hardcore with the rules. When did we start letting people do it and still working there?
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Shannon Sisler8:45
We don't do that consistently. We still don't let them work for us. I think it's about creating an accountable culture and setting those expectations. We have principles around attendance policies that we talk about with people in hiring and once they get onboarded. It's important to hold people accountable, yet also find the right balance to say, 'Hey, life happens.' You might have a sick child or a car that's broken down, and we need to find ways to accommodate those situations. But also have accountability that if you say you're going to do something, you do it. It's a slippery slope, but one that we manage on a daily basis.
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Steve Urban9:21
I sent my stepdaughter, who is 32, a note this morning. She does a little workforce here at Riderflex. She said yesterday she was going to do X, Y, and Z by the end of the day. It didn't happen. I got up this morning and looked at my email, didn't see it. I sent her a note saying, 'Hey, the culture here is do what you said you're going to do. If you say you're going to do something, do it. It's pretty simple. If you commit, take care of it, or don't overcommit, or at least let the person know.' Anyway, let's hold another topic. How about hiring? I want to ask you this as the CEO of a recruiting firm. This is something that's really on my mind lately. I get clients a lot, and I'm 56. I've been hiring people since I was 16. But I get clients these days, and they have the requirements, the job's back line items. We'll send them somebody that's an 80% match on what they're looking for, with the right culture fit, desire, ambition, and potential. Sometimes they might be missing one line item out of 15, and the client says, 'Nope, can't talk to them.' I'll call them and say, 'Look, I have video interviewed this person. We've spent time with them. I know they're missing this one little thing, but I recommend you talk to them because I'm telling you, this is going to be a good employee for you long term.' And I can't get some clients to budge. What are your thoughts on that?
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Shannon Sisler11:14
Well, I would say if you told us that, we'd budge. Because I think to find the perfect candidate that meets every criteria, gone are the days. Quite frankly, one of the key criteria you need to find is learning agility. Can they learn things new? There are behavioral-based questions you can ask to find out: how did you learn something new in a short amount of time? How did you overcome this challenge of not knowing something? There are definitely behavioral cues you can take in interviewing that you need to implement into your process to see if those people are good learners and can gain that capability. Now, there might be a rare situation where you have to have that experience because the company is in a tough spot, but that should be a small percentage of occasions, not the majority. We're looking for people with potential to grow and a hunger to learn. So I think we would welcome those people.
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Steve Urban12:11
Learning agility. I'm going to add that to my verbiage as I'm communicating with my clients. I love it. You know, I always tell people, throughout my entire career, the best employees I ended up having, if I had to list the top 20, none of them had the best interview or the perfect resume. In fact, most of them probably weren't fully qualified. But the fact that we spent time with them, molded them, and shaped them, they ended up being fantastic. Rarely does the perfect resume match end up being the perfect employee. It just doesn't work that way. That drives me nuts.
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Shannon Sisler13:05
Yeah, you're right about the speed aspect too. Don't you believe we've used 'gone are the days' a couple of times? This whole thing of sending someone through 50 interviews, five tests, and bringing them back to the office three times, we have to stop doing that, Shannon, don't we? We have to modify the process. People's willingness to go through those exhaustive processes is going away. Yet, as an employer, you have a responsibility to ensure you're bringing on qualified people. That's something we're working on right now. We have a very inclusive culture, and one thing I notice is that everybody wants to talk to all the new people. So the recruiting process becomes, 'Oh my goodness, they've talked to 10 people because they want to include everyone.' That's great, but in this stage where people have multiple offers and are moving through processes fast, you have to strike quickly and say, 'This is the right person, high potential, we're going to bring them on,' and expedite the process. There are things you can do with video and technology to help, but we've got to be swifter in our hiring, especially depending on the employment category. Speed is of the essence. I think we're trying to get better at that, and candidates expect it.
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Steve Urban14:30
Speaking of hiring by committee, tell me if you agree or disagree with this. I usually coach clients on this. I'll tell the HR manager or whoever our main contact is, and the hiring manager, I'll suggest, 'Look, if you want them to meet 10 people and get your team's opinion, that's cool. But I recommend you do that after the hiring manager and HR manager have decided this is our person, and we're doing this as a courtesy to make everyone feel included. Please don't run the candidate through the 10-person committee first and then to the hiring manager, because you're not going to get 10 people to all agree. Somebody is going to have a different opinion.' That's my rant. What do you think?
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Shannon Sisler15:31
Yeah, I think it depends on the role, but typically I would say we have that person in HR, but most importantly, the hiring manager really sits down and understands who their short list is. Once we've got the short list, which might be the top one to three candidates, then we'll put them through interviews with an additional slate of interviewers. So I agree. Getting everyone to agree on one candidate is tough to do. But I think it also encourages people to talk at the very beginning and halfway through the search to say, 'This is what we think we want.' Then once you've started meeting candidates, has that evolved? If it's shifted, let's have that conversation because maybe we've met people that bring different skills to light. But let's be transparent about what the candidate needs and what we need, and we'll evolve from there.
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Steve Urban16:23
I pause there for any hiring managers listening. Usually when we do a recruiting project, the process or the requirements or the desires do evolve a lot of times. We'll send over a couple people, and then they'll say, 'I know we said we wanted XYZ, but now we've met a couple people.' Here's what happens though: sometimes the client forgets to tell us that. That's not helpful.
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Shannon Sisler16:52
Not helpful. Okay, next topic. Diversity and inclusion and whatever the acronyms are these days, I can't keep up. That's right. Huge topic, big part of your life, I'm sure, on a regular basis.
Go to market and say, 'Who are all the people that come to us with the capabilities we need for this role?' It's about taking an abilities-driven approach. If you cast a wide net, you're going to see lots of different types of people that bring those capabilities. Try to stay focused on the impact people can have, but also make sure you've got different perspectives in the organization. As a brand, we are very focused on everyone feeling comfortable in their own shoes. We've got a very diverse tapestry of fans for both brands, and we think about how we can have employees that represent the different types of people we serve all over the world. One of the things we think about is the progress we're making in diversity, not necessarily setting a specific number, but are we making progress? Casting a wide net, getting the capabilities we need, and making it representative of our customers. It's a delicate balance. I also encourage people to talk openly about it, talk about the contributions you can bring to the table, the experiences you've had that differentiate you from other candidates, and get crystal clear on what those are. People who have been in jobs for a long time don't always have crisp, clear examples of their contributions. But when you start talking with them, you realize they've done amazing things. So being able to tell your story in a meaningful, impactful way is important as you navigate a recruiting process. Sometimes people need coaching at all ages and levels on how to do that best, to show up with confidence yet not arrogance, and tell your story and shine through. That's something we all can work on and help each other with.
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Steve Urban19:01
Sounds good. Thank you. I want to switch gears here. Let's move to technology and AI and everything it's doing and how it's making your people feel, especially software engineers. All these people are starting to get nervous. I can remember, as a recruiter, the last three or four years, software engineers were super cocky, demanding high salaries, and in high demand. Now all of a sudden, there's stuff that can write code without them in some cases, and it's getting faster. I was telling people years ago, 'One of these days, these software engineers aren't going to be so cocky.' I think we might almost be there. But anyway, back to my question. What has AI done so far to your employee base? How is it making some of your people feel, and what do you foresee?
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Shannon Sisler20:05
Yeah, obviously we're going through another big technology transition. We've gone through these every 10 plus years, and we happen to be in one right now. The biggest thing we've been trying to talk to people about is just being curious. What is it? What can it do for us? How can it take away tasks that are not important or a good use of time, to enable you to do more important things that require thought and human interaction? As a company and to our shareholders, we have a responsibility to figure out how artificial intelligence is going to play into our way of working and our culture. I don't think it's something to be scared of. Quite frankly, if you're scared of it as a company, you're just going to get beat to market because it's something we're all going to have to embrace. I'm a mom of three kids, and they automatically say, 'Just ask ChatGPT, it'll tell you the answer. Why are you doing this, Mom?' I have to think we have to be cognizant that those individuals have technology innate to who they are. They've always had tools, technology, mobile devices, and social media. This is going to be the way that generation goes to work. Instead of running away from it, we need to lean into it. Those people who are so great with technology, what can we learn from them? How can they help us navigate where we're going? They've got great ideas. Yet we also have to think about the ethics and compliance that go with it to make sure we're doing the right thing for society and our individual organizations. So a lot to learn, but kind of a fun new chapter. I'm excited to see where it takes us.
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Steve Urban21:54
I 100% agree with just about everything you just said. In fact, here at Riderflex, we've had several weeks of training and meetings with the recruiters. I told them, 'Hey look, we're going to use all this stuff to move faster and be stronger. We're going to jump on it.' I actually have somebody assigned to stay on top of every single new thing that's launched and see if it can be tied to our ATS system and how we're using it. Some of the old school recruiters are like, 'Oh, I've got my process, I don't need that.' I said, 'No, no, no, we're going to use this to our advantage because just like you said, Shannon, if we don't, we're just going to be left behind.' I couldn't agree more. Now, what about this? Brianna, who does operations for me, is one of the few people in the company that can just tell me whatever she thinks. She called me the other day and said, 'That email you just sent me was ChatGPT, I can tell.' And then I'm watching that with social media posts or people sending proposals or emailing back and forth. I'm thinking, 'Wow, we're moving super close to a world where nobody actually writes anything, and we're just prompting ChatGPT to write to each other.' Is that where we're headed? How do you feel when you get something that you know is written by ChatGPT versus authentic? How's it making you feel?
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Shannon Sisler23:21
I don't know. I haven't gotten a lot of those yet, or at least I haven't picked up on the authentic touch. Taking it back to recruiting, I can go to ChatGPT and tell it to write a job description for us, and it'll get probably 80 to 90% correct, just like that. Yet it's important for us to make sure that the Crocs Inc. identity—who we are, what we believe in, why this world is differentiated—you've got to add that human touch to that type of content. I think as individuals and organizations, we're going to go through some wins and losses with this artificial intelligence. But I'm proud of her for coming to you and saying, 'I'd like a human response versus a ChatGPT one.' Congratulations to her for being so bold to say that. That's great. Good for her.
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Steve Urban24:14
You know, the way I'm looking at it right now is I think of it as a great tool to use in the middle. I want everybody to know how to prompt it properly in the beginning. I don't mind ChatGPT doing a bunch of work in the middle, but then at the end, let's audit, tweak, personalize, and make sure it matches our culture. So I think humans have to be pretty involved in the beginning and the end, but it is definitely saving a lot of work in the middle. That's kind of how I'm looking at it right now. I don't know if robots are going to run everything in the future, but I'm okay with it if they do because I'll just go camping more and chill.
It's been a little bit. Last time we chatted was in the summer of 2020. Remote has become... when we first chatted, it was a necessity. Now it's a debated topic. Where are we, Shannon, with remote versus office at Crocs, and where do you see that going across the globe?
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Shannon Sisler25:33
Yeah, a tough topic and one that many organizations have struggled with. One of the things we did early in the pandemic was really think through what we believe at Crocs Inc. and why. We landed on taking every role in the company and aligning them to one of four personas: Collaborator, Explorer, Connector, and Resident. For each persona, we have an expectation for how often you'll be in your workplace, whether you have an assigned desk, etc. It's based on the requirements of the role, not on personal preference. We've gone through every role and aligned it to one of those personas. Every job description we put out on the web has the expectations. For our corporate office employees, a lot are categorized as Collaborators, meaning they spend 60 to 80% of their time in an office setting. We've found that keeping that in-person collaboration at least three days a week is really important to maintain our culture. As we've navigated the pandemic, we've continued to keep our employee engagement in the top decile with our engagement survey provider, Glint. I think part of it is because we've found it important to continue to bring people together. We also have Explorers who are only in the office a couple of times a year and are fully remote. Yet most of our workforce, 70% plus, are retail and distribution center employees, and they're in their workplace every day. We're really mindful of those front-line workers and how much they mean to the company, making sure our office employees are aligned to that. So we've taken a persona-based, role-based approach. I think it's served us well. I was at our office today, standing in line for lunch and couldn't find a parking spot, which I thought was a great sign that people are wanting to come back and engage. That seems to be working well for us.
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Steve Urban27:57
Do you think Corporate America in general will move more towards remote or not? I'm not talking about Crocs, just your worldly view. I just had a commercial real estate guy on the podcast the other day, and he was living in Germany. He said all the office buildings there are empty. Nobody goes to the office. What do you think is going to happen in general?
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Shannon Sisler28:25
I think it's going to be an evolution. This is another one of those polarizing things going on right now. Some people say let them do whatever they want, some say come back. We've somewhat landed in the middle, finding the right balance. But one thing employers will have to wrestle with is how to create a lifestyle that works for the employee yet also meets the organization's needs, and how that continues to be refined over time. I'm not sure where it's going to land, but I do think work-life integration and flexibility are things we'll have to continue to monitor and evolve to meet the expectations of the rising workforce and how competitive the labor market is, even in an inflationary environment.
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Steve Urban29:04
Okay, yeah. You just touched on the topic right there. Sometimes I tell clients, they'll want me to find a needle in the haystack in some small town in Kansas. I'm like, 'If you'll just let me do this remote, I can find you the right talent if you'll just open this up a little bit.' One thing I see a lot, and this is getting pretty granular on the topic of remote versus office, but for the listeners, one thing I see a lot is teams having a conference meeting in the conference room at the corporate office. Let's say you have 10 people around the table and five on the screen. Most of the time, the five on the screen are left out of something. Either the pre-chat before the meeting starts, because everybody starts gathering in the room and Johnny and Mary are making a little decision but the people haven't quite patched in yet, or they can't hear them talking. Or after the meeting officially ends, there's a little sidebar, 'Oh yeah, by the way, let's talk about this,' and those people miss out. I feel like the people dialing in miss out on the beginning and end of those gatherings sometimes, which can hurt teams if they're not careful. I don't know if you've seen that. I'm not exactly sure how to solve for that.
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Shannon Sisler30:28
One of the things we try to think about is when do you turn on a camera? Do you have individual cameras or just the room camera? We've played around with that in different teams. But I think for certain roles, it is important to get teams together where you can have that informal time together. That's something we definitely spend time, money, and resources on to make sure that at least a few times a year, you have that opportunity for personal interaction and to form those relationships, which I think are important. Although I say that, our engagement has stayed at top level for this company, and we've had a lot of remote work in the last few years. So I think it's about how you work and really thinking about how you can make people feel included whether they're in the room or on the screen. There are lots of different ways to do that, and we just have to keep exploring what those are.
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Steve Urban31:23
Interesting. We got together as a team at Riderflex all together about four or five months ago. Some of those folks, because I have recruiters all across the country, I had not ever met in person, and some I hadn't seen in years. We spent the day together, went to dinner, happy hour, and it was a whole social thing. We brought the spouses in too. It was a special moment that just cannot be recreated on the screen. There were lots of hugs going around. I don't know if an HR person hates that, maybe your rules say you can't touch each other, but there was lots of human interaction, bonding, touching on the shoulder, slapping on the back. All these things can't be replicated on the screen. I thought it was super healthy because it made us feel closer and more bonded.
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Shannon Sisler32:36
Yeah, I think we all have a need for human connection. Finding ways to do that that works for people's different styles and preferences is pretty important. We've seen a lot of mental health challenges in the world as of late, and making sure we've got connectivity so people feel genuinely included and understood is an important goal for employers, but also for us as humans. So we've got to keep working on that.
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Steve Urban33:01
Okay, we're wrapping up here. Two more things. HR in general, I don't remember HR being so strict when I was a store manager in '89, '90, '91. Shannon, I could just fire people. I didn't have to call anybody. That probably wasn't a good thing. It feels to me like the employees are in charge sometimes. It's almost like managers and bosses have very limited power to enforce rules, and they're all scared. My question is, has HR and legal combined gone too far and made it very hard for hiring managers and supervisors to actually do their job and tell people what to do?
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Shannon Sisler33:59
I actually don't think HR and legal, at least in our company, have gone too far. I think we are all about trying to find that balance of power between the employee and the manager, and how we can create a work environment that works for both. It goes back to a point I made earlier about accountability. Accountability for what the employee needs to do, but also accountability for the environment that the manager creates and sustains with the team. Yes, it's a land where we have rules and guidelines to follow. Yes, it needs to be a place where everyone feels comfortable. Our goal is to balance those two and find the right environment for everyone to thrive. That's easier said than done, but definitely our goal. But if the employee is not doing their job, I don't want them to feel comfortable. If the employee is not doing their job, as a manager, if you've set clear expectations, feel free to have that direct conversation and let them ask what they need help with, or potentially they'll choose a different job.
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Steve Urban35:05
I used to work for a gigantic greenhouse where they grew bedding plants. This was a third-generation owner, and he was about 70 years old. He would just walk through the greenhouse and fire people right on the spot. He'd just say, 'You get out.' I remember thinking, 'I guess that's okay.' Anyway, Shannon, when are you going to be CEO? What's going on? You're not a traditional HR person. You have all these other functional things you did earlier in your career—your numbers person and different things. I don't meet a lot of HR people that have other functional skill sets that could really expand away from one function. But you are, and you feel like an operator. You talk like an operator a lot, and this is coming from an ops guy. What's going on with you? Are you going to retire in HR? Are you going to move up? What are we doing here, Shannon?
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Shannon Sisler36:11
Yeah, I have an undergrad in finance and an MBA. I classify myself more as a business person who happens to do HR, rather than the other way around. I think you see it that way too. I really enjoy being what I call an enterprise leader, thinking about how we do things end to end, how we create people practices that drive amazing business results and support our customers. I'm fortunate to work at a place that gives me a seat at the table to make that contribution in a broad way, which is where I thrive best personally. It feels good. I've been here almost six years now, and you can really see the turnaround of the company. It's a place where people are excited to be, learning a lot, and growing with the company. All those things align, and I'm happy to be an enterprise leader here. We'll see how we continue to grow, so who knows?
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Steve Urban37:11
You're so polished with these answers. I would love to get you one-on-one with a couple of glasses of wine and see if you loosen up a little bit, see if I can get something. All right, we'll see. Is Reese still the CEO?
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Shannon Sisler37:22
Yep, Andrew is still the CEO. He's been here nine years, been my boss for six. He's a great CEO and a good boss.
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Steve Urban37:33
Okay, Andrew, if you're listening to this, here's the deal: somebody's going to recruit Shannon to be a CEO at some point. So when that happens and you need a new Chief Human Resource Officer, you call Riderflex and I'll recruit it for you. I'll pass it on. Shannon, thank you so much for being on the show again. I really appreciate it.
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Shannon Sisler37:51
All right, thank you. Take care.