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Alan Shepard - Last interview (1998)
On february 2nd, 1998 Alan Shepard was interviewed for the NASA Johnson Space Center Oral History Project by Roy Neal.
About Alan Shepard
In a 1998 oral history interview conducted by Roy Neal for NASA's Johnson Space Center, Alan Shepard reflected on his career as an astronaut and the broader space program. Shepard described the Apollo 1 fire as a "real shock" that "really woke everybody up" and led to a "total redesign of many of the parts of the spacecraft." He noted that President John F. Kennedy's decision to go to the moon came just three weeks after Shepard's own 15-minute suborbital flight, and he credited NASA administrator James Webb with playing that decision effectively. Shepard also commented on the competitive nature of the early space program, saying the astronauts were "in a race for space with the Russians" and that the U.S. eventually "caught up and went past them." Shepard praised the NASA organization for its long-term success, stating that "the thing that impressed me the most about the whole NASA process is that it has worked so well over the years." He credited the agency's investment in computing during the 1960s as the forerunner of modern chip technology, saying "we wouldn't have advanced to the position we are today without that tremendous impetus." Shepard also discussed the Life magazine contract, calling it "ambivalent" and noting that opinion among the astronauts was divided. The interview was conducted in February 1998; Shepard died of leukemia in July of that year.
Transcript (70 segments)
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Narrator0:01
Alan Shepard, the first American in space and the fifth man to walk on the moon, was interviewed for an oral history as part of NASA's Johnson Space Center history collection. Mr. Shepard was one of the Mercury 7 astronauts. This interview was conducted in February of 1998, and Mr. Shepard died of leukemia in July of that year. He is interviewed by Roy Neal, former NBC News correspondent who covered the American space program. This runs about 90 minutes.
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Roy Neal0:34
Hello, Louise Shepard from Pebble Beach, California. You can't see the magnificent view because we blacked it out. Good take, that can work. And Alan, thank you for letting us be here with you for this oral history. It's a pleasure, sir. Let's begin. Does the date April 9, 1959, mean anything to you?
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Alan Shepard0:55
Well, of course, it was one of the happiest days of my life. That was the day we all congregated officially as the U.S. first astronaut group. We had been through a selection process, but that was the day we first showed up officially at Langley Field, Virginia. NACA had become NASA in a great big hurried turnaround. The program was run by people from Langley. Once selected, we reported there. It was convenient for me because I was stationed in Norfolk and was tired of being behind a desk.
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Roy Neal2:46
Your journey took you through test pilot school and combat experience. Why did NASA decide to pick test pilots to fly the first space mission?
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Alan Shepard2:54
I think it was an immediate realization that we had a new product. It didn't look like an airplane, but if you put a pilot in it, it had to fly like one. When you have a strange new machine, you go to test pilots. NACA had some, but they were older. The decision was made to go to the military. Eisenhower may have been involved, but the White House was to some degree.
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Roy Neal4:22
When you first sized up your teammates, what were your first reactions?
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Alan Shepard4:29
I wondered if these six were incompetent guys, but no. I knew several from the preliminary process. Glenn I knew from Navy connections. There was a lot of talent, and I knew it would be a tough fight. It was competitive, so there was always a sense of caution, especially about technical things.
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Roy Neal6:57
You were about to move into weightless space. Did that frighten you?
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Alan Shepard7:04
My thoughts reflected those of the others. For me, it was the challenge of controlling a new vehicle in a new environment. I'd done that as a Navy carrier pilot. Landing on a carrier is harder than landing on the moon. The short-term effects of zero gravity weren't the challenge; controlling the craft was.
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Roy Neal8:27
The craft was so unusual that there weren't even simulators. You had to make them.
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Alan Shepard8:35
Exactly. In the early days, we had part-task trainers instead of simulators. They created confidence. You could simulate emergencies and learn to handle them.
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Roy Neal10:28
Did the astronauts take an active role in designing the spacecraft?
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Alan Shepard10:34
Yes. We assigned individuals to work with contractors, with NASA's blessing. We focused on pilot interface—whether switches and handles were in the right place for emergencies.
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Roy Neal11:24
You became the first man to fly a Mercury spacecraft. Can you describe how that came about?
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Alan Shepard11:36
After about 20 months of training, Bob Gilruth called us in. He said Shepherd gets the first flight, Grissom the second, Glenn backup. He left. I was elated but felt sorry for my buddies. They shook my hand, and I was alone.
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Roy Neal13:56
That's a priceless story. Now, what about the delays on the launch pad on that day?
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Alan Shepard14:09
The countdown was going well. It was scheduled for May 2, but a rainstorm caused cancellation. Three days later, we went through the same routine. I remember driving to the pad, seeing the rocket lit by searchlights. I kicked the tires figuratively. During the countdown, there was an inverter problem. I needed to relieve myself, so I asked to get out. They said no because of wires, but they had a switch to turn them off, so I did it in my suit. The oxygen dried me.
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Roy Neal18:19
Yuri Gagarin beat you to space. How important was that race?
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Alan Shepard18:44
It was close. We could have flown first if we hadn't flown another unmanned mission. But von Braun wanted everything perfect. In retrospect, it doesn't seem important, but at the time it was very important.
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Roy Neal20:40
How important was it? Did you say anything publicly?
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Alan Shepard20:46
We had differences of opinion, but most were kept quiet and resolved jointly.
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Roy Neal21:25
You lobbied for another Mercury flight, but it was cut short due to Gemini. Can you discuss?
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Alan Shepard21:31
I wanted to fly again. After Gordon Cooper's mission, there was another spacecraft ready. I thought to stay up until something ran out. I proposed it, but they said no. I even tried to convince Kennedy after a White House visit, but Webb didn't want it, and Kennedy sided with Webb.
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Roy Neal24:08
So you got ready for Gemini instead.
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Alan Shepard24:15
I was chosen for the first Gemini mission with Tom Stafford. But I developed Meniere's disease and was grounded. I stayed with NASA, had surgery under an assumed name, and eventually was cleared to fly again.
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Roy Neal28:21
Let's talk about Deke Slayton, who was also grounded.
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Alan Shepard28:47
Deke had a heart murmur. He was grounded from his Mercury flight. At that point, competitiveness turned to camaraderie. We felt sorry for him. He became our spokesman and later chief of the astronaut office. When I was grounded, I took over that role. We both ran a tight ship because we knew where all the skeletons were.
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Roy Neal36:43
When you got back into the program during Apollo, what happened?
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Alan Shepard37:06
When I was cleared, I recommended myself for Apollo 13 with Stu Roosa and Ed Mitchell. NASA said no because of the public relations issue. We compromised: I got Apollo 14. Because of Apollo 13's problems, we had more training and spacecraft improvements. It gave us confidence.
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Roy Neal40:45
Did you approach Apollo 14 with fear or confidence?
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Alan Shepard40:58
People think it was more dangerous, but we had a thorough reassessment of the spacecraft. It was a feeling of security.
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Roy Neal42:54
You had been through the Apollo 1 fire. Let's go back over that.
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Alan Shepard43:06
Apollo 1 was a real shock. Losing a crew in a ground test woke everyone up. We had become complacent. Gus Grissom had complained about the spacecraft, but we said we'd fix it by the time he flew. That false security contributed to the fire. It led to a total redesign and made the program more successful.
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Roy Neal46:28
Let's go back to after your first suborbital mission, when the moon flight was born.
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Alan Shepard46:40
The decision to go to the moon was made after only 15 minutes of spaceflight. After my mission, I went to the White House. Kennedy asked what was next, and someone mentioned the moon. Three weeks later, he announced we would go within the decade. People say it was because of the Bay of Pigs, but that's not true. He was genuinely excited about space.
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Roy Neal51:01
What was your personal reaction to his announcement?
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Alan Shepard51:06
We were delighted but gulped because he put a time cap on it. We thought he might be a little enthusiastic.
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Roy Neal51:36
Which flight did you think would make the first manned landing?
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Alan Shepard51:54
After Apollo 8, missions 9 and 10 demonstrated the lunar module's capabilities. We felt Apollo 11 could do it, and it did. Then came Apollo 14 for us.
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Roy Neal52:43
Tell me about the lead-up to Apollo 14.
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Alan Shepard52:49
Apollo 13 gave us extra training time. The spacecraft changes were good. I picked Roosa and Mitchell. There's a funny story about my backup, Gene Cernan, who crashed a helicopter a few days before launch. He came in covered with soot and said, 'Okay Shepard, you win, you get to go.'
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Roy Neal56:27
You were on the moon. What did you feel?
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Alan Shepard56:33
The flight went well except for a docking problem and an abort switch issue. On the way down, the landing radar wasn't working. We had a rule to abort if not updated by 13,000 feet. Somebody suggested resetting a circuit breaker, and it worked. We landed softly. Ed Mitchell asked what I would have done if it hadn't worked. I said, 'You'll never know.' I would have landed visually.
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Roy Neal59:58
Tell me about what you did on the moon.
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Alan Shepard1:00:05
The first feeling was tremendous accomplishment. I had been grounded, and now I was on the moon. After setting out equipment, we looked up at Earth. It was beautiful, lonely, fragile. I thought how people don't realize its fragility.
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Roy Neal1:02:22
Then you played golf.
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Alan Shepard1:02:29
I didn't decide to play golf—that's a long story. I'm the only person to hit a golf ball on the moon. I was intrigued because the ball would go six times as far. I went to Bob Gilruth, and he said no. But I explained it wasn't a real club; it was a handle we'd throw away with a club head I adapted. I paid for the balls. I made a deal: if anything went wrong, I wouldn't do it. At the end of the mission, I hit two balls on TV. The club is in the US Golf Association museum. No commercialism.
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Roy Neal1:05:51
After that, you left NASA. What then?
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Alan Shepard1:05:59
The only missions left were Skylab and Apollo-Soyuz. Deke Slayton flew that. We were so pleased for him. He had to learn Russian. I remember watching with you on TV when they landed.
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Roy Neal1:07:41
John Glenn is about to fly again. What do you think?
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Alan Shepard1:07:50
John is a couple years older. I've said taxpayers didn't get their money's worth from him because he went into Congress. I called him after the announcement and said, 'I'm glad you're giving me one more flight from my tax dollars.' I think it's good. We'll learn about weightlessness and aging. I'd like to fly again, but I'm not in top health.
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Roy Neal1:09:45
Let's evaluate some NASA managers. Jim Webb?
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Alan Shepard1:09:58
Webb was a fresh breath. He knew Washington and played the game well. But when I asked him for a technical request, he turned me down.
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Roy Neal1:11:23
Bob Gilruth?
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Alan Shepard1:11:29
I like Bob. He was a remarkable, hands-on gentleman. I appreciate his decision to let me make the first flight. He never told me why, but he's one of my heroes.
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Roy Neal1:13:12
Chris Kraft?
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Alan Shepard1:13:16
I like Chris. We were closer in the early days. He made well thought-out decisions.
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Roy Neal1:13:50
George Low? Wernher von Braun?
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Alan Shepard1:13:53
I didn't know George well. Von Braun was an engineer but also had political aspects from Germany. He dealt with the public more easily than Gilruth. The public knew more about von Braun, but those inside knew more about Gilruth.
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Roy Neal1:16:42
What were the worst things that happened after your selection?
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Alan Shepard1:16:53
Being grounded was the worst.
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Roy Neal1:17:17
What was the most difficult thing when you ran the astronaut office?
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Alan Shepard1:17:37
Managing a group of enthusiastic, intelligent guys. There were jealousies over flight assignments. I had to have harsh discussions to straighten things out.
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Roy Neal1:18:48
What about the Life magazine contract?
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Alan Shepard1:19:19
There's ambivalence. It provided controlled press access on personal matters, which was welcome, but criticism about the money. Half thought it good, half bad.
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Roy Neal1:20:46
Would you change any of NASA's current practices?
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Alan Shepard1:20:55
That's hard to answer since I'm not involved. Looking at their performance, they're running a successful program. No loss of life, remarkable repairs like Hubble. They're doing a good job.
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Roy Neal1:23:10
Is there anything you'd like to add?
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Alan Shepard1:23:24
It's been a great part of my life. What impressed me most is that the NASA process has worked so well. Despite differences, they always got the best answer. The computers that took us to the moon were forerunners of today's technology. NASA's impetus advanced computing and satellites. It's remarkable.
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Roy Neal1:27:10
Let the record show that commercial was totally unsolicited. That was pure Alan Shepard. Thank you very much. It's been a real pleasure.