Vice President & President of Allete Clean Energy, ALLETE INC
Episode 35: Nicole Johnson - President of ALLETE Clean Energy
We are joined this week by Nicole Johnson, President of ALLETE Clean Energy. We discuss her path to President of ALLETE ...
About Nicole Johnson
Nicole Johnson, vice president at Allete and president of its subsidiary Allete Clean Energy, appeared on the podcast "Lightskinn Pod" in December 2024. She discussed her role in helping to create Allete Clean Energy, which she described as a wind company that develops, owns, and operates large wind farms across seven states. Johnson stated that across Allete's family of companies, the approach is "all of the above energy," including wind, solar, hydro, biomass, and some fossil-based energy, while continuing to look for the cleanest, most affordable, and reliable forms of power. She noted that Minnesota has a ban on building nuclear power and that some are questioning whether that ban should be lifted for small modular nuclear reactors to help meet carbon-free goals, while also acknowledging that hesitation around nuclear energy often relates to concerns about spent fuel disposal. Johnson added that coal mining remains a significant part of Allete's operations through a sister company in North Dakota. Johnson also commented on the company's internal culture, saying that Allete provides opportunities for employees to have multiple careers without leaving the company by encouraging movement across different business units. Reflecting on her own career, she advised her younger self not to be afraid to take chances, even without checking all the boxes, and to raise her hand, work hard, and be a good teammate.
Transcript (97 segments)
H
Host0:12
All right, all right, welcome back to another episode of Light Skin Pod. I think we're on 35, and keep climbing, keep climbing. So today we are here with a good friend of mine who I haven't seen a while, Nikki Nicole Johnson. How are you?
N
Nicole Johnson0:30
I'm good, how are you? Nice to see you.
H
Host0:33
So I already introduced you, but do you want to kind of introduce yourself one more time?
N
Nicole Johnson0:36
Yeah, sure. So Nicole Johnson, I am a vice president at Allete and president of one of its subsidiaries called Allete Clean Energy.
H
Host0:47
Awesome. Well, thanks for being here with us fresh off of Thanksgiving. I know everybody's still tired, I'm still full. I haven't really eaten that much leftovers.
N
Nicole Johnson0:55
Not even then. I just... for us, it's always the same food.
H
Host1:00
Well, let's just say for Black people, I know what I expect when I go into a Black household for Thanksgiving: mac and cheese, baked mac and cheese, which I judge everybody's food. So I told people don't invite me over unless you're ready. But yeah, baked mac and cheese, ham, we make a turkey but we don't eat turkey. Got to do stuffing, got to do candied yams, cornbread, and Kool-Aid. He loves dried turkey, dry hand, dry not... I hate turkey with a passion. But anyway, we started off like we always do: tell us about baby Nikki. Where you from, born, growing up, stuff like that.
N
Nicole Johnson1:41
Yeah, sure. So I was born and raised in Ashland, Wisconsin, which is just an hour and 15 minutes east of Duluth, right on Lake Superior. I am the youngest of five kids in my family. My parents still live there.
H
Host1:55
Wow, okay, awesome. Now were your parents originally from there as well?
N
Nicole Johnson2:03
They're actually... one, my mother is from Wakefield, Michigan, my dad's from Hurley, Wisconsin, so just on that border of the UP right there. And then they moved to Ashland like a year before I was born, so I lived in Ashland the whole time until I moved to Duluth to go to college.
H
Host2:21
All right, what was it like growing up in Ashland? Because it's not that big, is it?
N
Nicole Johnson2:27
No, it's a you know, 8,500 people, so small, small town. One high school, you pretty much knew everybody from the start of elementary school. So it was a good place to grow up. And it's still nice to go visit my parents, but I definitely knew that I wanted to go to the big city of Duluth.
H
Host2:48
Yeah, Duluth was the big city. We go to Ashland only like once a year with Joe because we play football, so it just depends on what year it is because you rotate. Did we go to Ashland this year? No, not this year, they came to us. Oh wait, no, we did go to Ashland, but I wasn't there for it because it was my brother's wedding. But yeah, all I really know is the football field. It's honestly my favorite away game, I love going out to Ashland. It's a nice drive.
N
Nicole Johnson3:20
It is a beautiful drive. And I go out towards that way because I'm in the Bagley area too, so instead of going right on the split, we go left.
H
Host3:28
But all right, so what was it like growing up being the youngest of five?
N
Nicole Johnson3:34
So it's crazy because my oldest sibling is seven years older, so we have five kids in seven years, so we're all super close. And it was great. We all are very close. I have two sisters, two brothers, so it was a great mix of sisters and brothers. And to this day, we're all very close, and it's really fun because get-togethers, everybody in the family is about the same age, grandkids, cousins.
H
Host4:00
Are they all still local?
N
Nicole Johnson4:06
My parents are the only ones that live in Ashland. My oldest sister actually lives in Duluth, just like a block and a half up the street from me. I've got a brother in Menasha, Wisconsin, and a brother in Oshkosh, and then my sister that's just older than me, she's actually in Connecticut. So everybody else is close, but we're hoping that she comes back for sure.
H
Host4:29
Yeah, and see, I'm from the East Coast, from New Jersey, so this is a long ways. But I'll tell you what, I love it. I'll never go back to the East Coast. Plus, I love the distance. I mean, I love my family, but just to be away from family drama. Call me, and if I don't answer, maybe call again. If I don't answer, then don't call again. I'll call you when I got time. So have y'all traveled to Duluth a lot when you were young? Did y'all do a lot of traveling as a family?
N
Nicole Johnson5:05
Duluth was the place where we would go frequently. That was the place with the mall, we'd go shopping here. My first concert was at the DECC, seventh grade, Poison.
H
Host5:17
Poison? Okay, Poison. I think I even know a Poison song. You look it up after this, definitely will.
N
Nicole Johnson5:26
Yeah, it was. But Duluth was the big city, so we came here quite often. So when you graduated, did you consider anywhere else, or was Duluth just that spot?
H
Host5:35
I applied to one college, and it was UMD, because I knew I wanted to come to the cool... what did you study? Well, let's say this, I know you spent some time here, but what was it like going from 8,500 to 80,000?
N
Nicole Johnson5:51
Well, it helps when you go to college because you're all... if you think of UMD, it's about 8,000, 10,000 whatever students, so it was kind of like the same as your hometown. And having lived on campus, which is super awesome because that's where you get to meet people right away, so the transition was actually pretty easy. And even right now, my husband is born and raised in Duluth, so he knows everybody. It's a big small town, so it wasn't that big of an adjustment, both going from UMD and then when I started work, I went to Minnesota Power.
H
Host6:30
Right down to college. So what did you study at UMD?
N
Nicole Johnson6:35
I actually studied... I graduated with an accounting degree, but I started in HR at Minnesota Power.
H
Host6:47
Okay, HR? I started as an intern there. That's wild. So originally, I talked about this before, originally I wanted to go to school to become an anesthesiologist. But with sports, I said no, there's no way I'm doing this. The money just looks good, but then you start getting into some of those classes and it's like, you get those medical sheets, I can't read half of them. I said I can't, there's no way. I got to learn a hundred plays and you want me to learn a thousand medicines? They all sound the same. Then you got to know the side effects, I ain't got time. So there was one point, and this was a real short part of me, where I was like, oh what if I did HR? I would get in trouble with myself, there's no way in hell I can do that. I know me, I am terrible. So yeah, I didn't think I was going into HR either, it just kind of worked out that way. But I can appreciate what you said about going for anesthesiology. I actually when I started at UMD, I thought I wanted to be a chemical engineer because I love chemistry in high school and my teacher at the time was fantastic. It took me one semester, I'm like absolutely not, I can't stand it. But I always liked math, so that's why I transferred to business school, trying to find something.
N
Nicole Johnson8:13
So tell me, you interned at Minnesota Power. Did you intern as an accountant or in HR?
H
Host8:20
I started doing accounting for benefit plans, which was in HR, and that's how I started in HR. So it was technically an HR intern.
N
Nicole Johnson8:32
Got it. And how long was it? Just one summer or a full year?
H
Host8:38
It was a full year. And fortunately for me, as I was about to graduate in my senior year, somebody on the team was retiring, so they posted a job. Perfect timing. I applied for the job, and it was right in the area that I was interning, so it was meant to be. 28 years later, I'm still in the broad company. It worked out.
N
Nicole Johnson9:01
All right, I'll back up a little bit. When did you meet Kyle? We're going back.
H
Host9:08
Her husband, yes. So I met him December 13th of 1997. So I was still... sorry, young. So yeah, I met him when I was interning at Minnesota Power, just graduated.
N
Nicole Johnson9:29
Was he at Minnesota Power too?
H
Host9:34
No, he was at Ionics, Chromaline I think it was at the time. He was a research chemist there for like 15 years before he became a financial planner. But yeah, he's a few years older than me, so we always kind of laugh that I would have never... glad we met. He's great, he's one of my favorite people. He called me for my birthday, that was my favorite call. I was so happy. I looked at my phone, it said Kyle caller ID. I thought, did I do something? Because I think I still got my retirement in with him, so I thought he was calling about that. He was like, oh happy birthday. I said, you know what's amazing? He's the most thoughtful person. Like he's the one to call or text my parents or any of my siblings way before me. He's just Johnny on the spot, sending notes, whatever. That's pretty awesome.
N
Nicole Johnson10:28
Thanks, Kyle, we appreciate you. But that's while he was a research chemist. I tell you right now, I don't think I ever would have put that together with now. We got to have him on the podcast.
H
Host10:38
You 100% have that. That is a story in itself. We'll get him on. So we're backing up again. Tell me about your ride through Minnesota Power, climbing up through the ranks.
N
Nicole Johnson10:49
Yeah, so like I said, I started as an intern 28 years ago. And there's so many awesome things about that company. They invest in the people, it's a super supportive culture, they give back to the community. They always provide opportunities for people to grow and develop. Recognizing I had no HR background other than a couple courses at UMD, so I got certifications. But I learned the HR side. What I got exposed to was a lot of project teams. Throughout the company's long history, we've had other companies, diversification efforts. So I always got involved in new companies that we were starting or acquiring. I had that experience throughout my career, and as HR you get involved in that as you're transitioning, bringing people on or moving them around. Actually, when the company was deciding to create a new company, which was later going to be called Allete Clean Energy, they had just a handful of people that they wanted to get this company off the ground, and I was one of them. I supported it for about five years, and I was supporting other different companies within the broader Allete family. Then after 12 years, they asked me to be president of the company that I started 12 years before with a small group of people.
H
Host12:22
That's awesome. So for people who don't know, and this is a good question for me too because I'm not super familiar with Allete, what is that section of Minnesota Power do?
N
Nicole Johnson12:36
So when we talk about Allete, it's the parent company that has five different business units. Minnesota Power is the biggest of the business units, it's about 50% of the company, it's kind of where the company started. Then we have sister companies that go with it. Another different company is Superior Water, Light and Power, which provides electric, gas, and water to the people. We have a company out in North Dakota which is a coal mine. We have a new solar developer company that's based in Annapolis, Maryland, that has a nationwide footprint. And then the company I lead, which is currently a wind company with operations in seven states, and we develop, own, and operate large wind farms.
H
Host13:28
That's crazy. And they build the ones in Duluth? They bring them through... a lot of times you see the blades and the different equipment come through the harbor on ships.
N
Nicole Johnson13:40
Yeah, they come over on ships. And not just for us, the port helps transport anything for building in the central Midwest.
H
Host13:59
How far does the reach of Allete go for some of those windmills? Where do you start seeing them? Because I don't really see them around here.
N
Nicole Johnson14:15
We have a small wind farm just right up on the US Steel area, actually right up on the Range. Otherwise, Minnesota Power's wind is in North Dakota, and they bring the energy back on a high voltage line. Allete Clean Energy has wind farms in southern Minnesota, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Oklahoma, Montana, and North Dakota.
H
Host14:43
Maybe you don't know this question, but the loss of power from North Dakota to here, there's got to be a lot, right?
N
Nicole Johnson14:57
There is a loss anytime it transports over the lines. They do factor in how much the line loss is, but the energy and the wind is so much better there that it's still better to build it there and transport it than to build it where the wind or the topography isn't as good.
H
Host15:12
Is it like 20% loss?
N
Nicole Johnson15:20
I don't know for sure. It all varies based on the length.
H
Host15:26
So I'll ask some dumb questions because I don't do this kind of stuff. You're talking about transporting the energy. Is it just transported through... obviously you ain't picking energy up and putting it on a truck. That sounds crazy, but I'm going to ask for everybody else out there who doesn't know as much. So how is it all transported? Through cables?
N
Nicole Johnson15:50
Generally, there is the source of the energy, so it's either a gas turbine, a wind turbine, or a solar farm. That's where it's generated. Then you transmit it on large transmission lines. If you go down to the cities and see the really big transmission lines with the wire coming through, that's what we use to send it large distances on the big lines. Then it steps down at a substation and goes out on what we call distribution lines. Distribution lines are the ones that generally are behind your house, and they hook up to your house. That's how the power actually gets to you. But it gets transported on wires.
H
Host16:44
So from the generation where it's created, it goes through a multitude of step-downs to be able for you to use it. It's quite amazing how it actually gets to where you flip a switch.
N
Nicole Johnson17:04
Here's an odd specific question. The big transmission lines coming down Midway Road, do you know where those are coming from? I always kind of wondered.
H
Host17:17
Down Midway Road and then they cut right across the Morgan Park area.
N
Nicole Johnson17:25
Does it really matter? I'm going to say that's a different guest. I can give you somebody who specializes in Minnesota Power's transmission line. She would know. I only know the basics. I'm not that part.
H
Host17:38
I'm going to plead the fifth. I'm not real sure. I'm from Wisconsin, so I don't even know where that is.
N
Nicole Johnson17:53
But they're all connected, which is amazing. They're all connected at some point.
H
Host17:59
It's wild. I trust me, I got a lot of questions, but I know I'm not even going to ask you because... maybe you do know, you can say no. But how so? Say you got one windmill, how big of an area could it power? How much does one windmill power? A thousand houses?
N
Nicole Johnson18:19
It all depends on the size of the wind. They range from small to quite large.
H
Host18:33
And I suppose it depends on how far you got to transmit it too. This is all fascinating. It's something I want to do a tour of Minnesota Power.
N
Nicole Johnson18:38
We can make that happen. Let's do that. Just want to see the power, you know, get transported.
H
Host18:43
One of the best tours is here at Thomson Hydro. That's an amazing tour. Hydro power is where Minnesota Power got started, from hydroelectricity. This would be good to bring the kids somewhere. Our teenagers... we do a ton of outreach with kids in the classroom, so I think that's fantastic. Let me know, I definitely got you. I'll get you set up.
N
Nicole Johnson19:08
Well, awesome. I'm going to backtrack again. When you got into Minnesota Power, just going through your time there, did you ever think you'd always be here?
H
Host19:21
No, but you know, this is what I tell people: as long as you... and this is what I love about that company. It provides you to have multiple careers and not actually leave the company. We strongly encourage and provide opportunities where people can go from one company to another company, or go from HR to leading customer service or in our distribution group. You're not limited into the area in which you get hired into. That's what I think is most fascinating, and that's what I think is one of the secrets to why we have such longevity there. We provide opportunities for people to have new experiences and never actually have to leave.
N
Nicole Johnson20:14
We kind of heard that from one of our same... yeah. So I was told you were responsible for one of Allete's most questionable hires.
H
Host20:21
I have to say, I did hire Eric, and I'm so glad. He is to this day probably the most impressive person I've ever interviewed in my entire career, and I have done a ton of interviews.
N
Nicole Johnson20:33
When we told him that you were going to be on, he was like, oh I love her, and you should bring up the fact that she hired me. He's awesome.
H
Host20:45
What was impressive about him? He did his research. This was an entry-level job in the benefits side. He knew... he did his research, he looked up stuff on our filings, he looked up stuff on the company. He wanted it, and he was all over it. Not just superficial like I checked out your website for five minutes. He was in all of our SEC filings. He did his research, and he's obviously a great communicator, great personality. Anybody who is going to invest that amount of time... you won. Good job, Eric. Proud of you. Super happy to have you.
N
Nicole Johnson21:29
So think about in the future. Are there any other clean energy initiatives that Allete is looking to get into?
H
Host21:36
Yeah, so we're continuing to look. Across our family of companies, we really talk about all of the above energy because it's going to all be needed, because they serve different needs. Obviously we have wind, solar, hydro, biomass, including some fossil-based energy. So we're continuing to look at what provides us the best energy in the cleanest form that's affordable and reliable. It's always a balancing act. So we're definitely continuing to look at what new things are coming.
N
Nicole Johnson22:23
How about nuclear?
H
Host22:29
Yeah, so scary. There's a lot of discussion about nuclear right now. Actually, in the state of Minnesota, there's a ban that you can't build nuclear. So that's one of the things that people are asking: should that ban be lifted or not? And maybe it's not the nuclear of old, but maybe it's small modular nuclear. But again, if we're trying to meet carbon-free goals, we're going to need something to provide reliable power when the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shining. So that's why people are asking the question.
N
Nicole Johnson23:00
To me, it seems like nuclear is the cleanest option, right? It doesn't... from a carbon perspective.
H
Host23:13
I think the thing that makes people hesitant about nuclear is the spent energy and what happens there, and how do you dispose of it responsibly.
N
Nicole Johnson23:24
Yeah, exactly. I would be afraid. I don't know enough about it. I hear a lot of places talk about it. On the East Coast, we have a big nuclear generator in Delaware. If I remember, it almost melted down one day. This was when we were young. I remember they shut everything down. We couldn't go to school, we had to stay in the house. I'm thinking, what is staying in the house going to do if this thing blows up? I'd rather see it coming. But it was like a week-long deal. I remember all of us, my mom went to church, we were young, so you get to all, Jesus coming, we'll be fine. I think we'll be okay. We were so fascinated with how everybody else was moving in disarray. That was probably 20 something years ago, so nuclear probably came a long way since then. I don't want to speak on this too much because I don't know enough about it, but there's these small communities in Upstate New York that I've heard about, and we actually driven through some. This was a long time ago too, probably 10 or 15 years ago, that power houses by quartz. Have you ever heard of that? Quartz stones?
H
Host25:07
No, I'm... listen, listen, this is... it sounds crazy. I saw your face, it sounds crazy. But I'm going to find it. Maybe we should take a road trip, we should check that out. That'd be a wild road trip, stopping at all the breweries. But I'm going to find it, I'm going to send you the article. I remember when I was just getting out of high school, we went up there and one of my buddies was telling us about it. I forgot about it for a while, but not too long ago I looked it up again. I was like, oh they really... and I don't know the science behind it either, but they do these... they got these freaking quartz crystals and they power their houses off of it. I'm thinking, what the heck is this? Some people say conspiracy, but it's kind of cool. I can't wait to read all about it.
N
Nicole Johnson26:00
So how big is coal mining out in North Dakota?
H
Host26:07
It's pretty big. I didn't even realize they had that much out there. You always hear about it on the East Coast.
N
Nicole Johnson26:14
Coal mining is part of what Minnesota Power does, not Minnesota Power, a sister company of it. They provide it to customers.
H
Host26:28
I would love to learn more about all of the subsidiaries of Allete Energy, more about the science of it all and how power flows. I think it's super cool. I love watching small documentaries on things. I was just watching one where I want to say it's in California somewhere, but on the side of a hill or mountain, they put these flat things, three or four of them, and they're wave powered. So when waves hit, they lift up and drop down. It was super cool, and they generate a lot of power for all of the towns along the coast. It looks so simple. I'm like, damn, why don't they do that, especially on Lake Superior? But people don't want to mess up Lake Superior by putting big old ugly things there. They don't play that out here.
N
Nicole Johnson27:27
What's amazing too is just the reliability of Minnesota Power. Because to be honest, you hear stories all the time, people saying oh my power's out. And you talk about how vast the network is and the transfer lines. Very seldom, and if we do have a power outage, it's during a storm or something, but it's relatively quick to get back up. So that's pretty impressive.
H
Host27:53
They do a phenomenal job keeping lights on. That whole team is remarkable.
N
Nicole Johnson28:00
So how much longer do you think you'll be in the field before you're ready to throw in your Allete badge and say I'm retired?
H
Host28:14
Well, I am now in a decade that I feel like it's in my sights. I had a milestone birthday a couple months ago, so I can say that it's now at least appearing on the horizon.
N
Nicole Johnson28:26
That's cool. 10 years maybe? It'll be a while.
H
Host28:33
Not Kyle so much. He'll be long retired, and I'll be working for a long time. So I'll backtrack a little bit now. Are there new clean energy projects on the horizon? I think we got kind of sidetracked with all the things you were talking about. If you answered it, we'll just cut that part out. But did you answer that?
N
Nicole Johnson28:51
On all of our companies, we are looking at advancing clean energy projects. So if you're saying do we have more projects, the answer is yes. Right now, they'll pretty much be traditionally wind projects, solar projects, potentially some other... quartz crystals? I'm going to go back to work and I'm like, pay all we got something. So there's a lot of those kind of projects certainly in the mix. And they're always looking at... the question is, is the technology there, but then is it affordable and is it reliable? What kind of attributes does it have? So they're always looking at new technologies for sure. But there will definitely be more wind and solar, that kind of traditional, I'll say more mainstream. But they're always looking at other things for sure.
H
Host29:52
Maybe I should be a spokesman. You should. We talk, I got you. I'll look up some stuff. You like to Allete Quartz Division. I love it. I got it. You want quartz? Go see PZ, the cut. I got it. I'll practice. We'll work on it. I'll ask you something we ask everybody as we start to wrap up. If you could go back and say something to your younger self, what would it be?
N
Nicole Johnson30:26
Don't be afraid to take chances earlier.
H
Host30:31
Why do you say earlier? What makes you say that?
N
Nicole Johnson30:37
Well, I'd say of my 28 years, about 25 of them was really within a function of HR at higher levels. Then it was in the last five years, before this job I was chief administrative officer, and in addition to HR, I had our IT and our environmental and land management. That wasn't that much of a stretch, they're all corporate shared services, which at a high level has many similar attributes. But it was really when I went to Allete Clean Energy to lead a company that I'd never built a wind farm, never operated a wind farm. Like, what the heck do I do? I know about running a company like that, but you really leverage what your strengths are. People, talent, forming good teams, making sure that you can get the most out of your teams and help them make their jobs better. That's what it's really about. But yeah, it was a little like holy cow, all the things I knew, it's a whole new territory. So it was a learning curve, and it still is every day.
H
Host31:59
That's awesome. I tell a lot of young people the same thing: take chances. Obviously don't go into something that you know for a fact you're not educated enough on or know enough about. Sometimes it's hard to take that chance too, but you just really got to know. There's so many opportunities that are just unspoken for or unclaimed that some people just look at and say, oh I can't do that, or I ain't got the experience. You could look at it and say, I've never done this, so I'm not about to do it. But now look at it, we got quartz coming. We're about to break the market right now. I'm so excited. This conversation is fantastic.
N
Nicole Johnson32:43
I agree, and I totally agree with you. I always tell people, raise your hand. That is the one thing I did my whole career. New project, new opportunity, I wanted to get exposed to as many things as I possibly could. So let people know, you don't have to check off all the boxes to get a shot. Just raise your hand, work hard, be a good teammate.
H
Host33:05
Before we go, look at this jacket. This is the toughest jacket we've had on the show by far. That's super awesome. Do you ride motorcycles now?
N
Nicole Johnson33:18
I do not. I grew up riding my brother's motorcycles. Me and my sister used to take it when my brothers weren't around. So have I ridden a motorcycle? Yes.
H
Host33:26
Well, thank you. If we take nothing else from this podcast, let them know, got a good jacket for sure. Well, thanks for being on with us. I appreciate it, and it was good to see you again. And also to circle back, thanks because through Allete, you donated some money to NY. That was awesome. We actually got a Chromebook with that for the kids. Then they picked out this full nail set with the thing you can put your nails under. They use that thing every day. It drives me crazy because some days they don't clean it up. I say, look, if y'all clean this up, first of all you're going to break it, you know, you get the polish over. So we make sure it's clean. And then we got a new set of clippers for when we cut hair, because it's so expensive to get your haircut now. I think I cut like 10 heads a week. That's amazing. But yeah, so thank you.
N
Nicole Johnson34:24
Well hey, I'm so glad that it's being used. Anything we can do to help support you and that awesome organization, definitely you let us know. We appreciate it.
H
Host34:29
And thank y'all for joining us. And like always, like, and subscribe, and share. And we'll see you next time on Light Skin Pod.