IHTHT Podcast Ep.142 - I Hope You Jason Kim's Story

Doing good. How are you?

Yeah, thanks for inviting me.

Okay, when you ask me a question like that, like how far should I go? I think it's informative to see what decision you make, you know? So just have at it. Say the question one more time.

Brief background. Let's see. I was born in New York, grew up in Korea for a few years when I was a kid, came back to Long Island where I grew up most of my young adulthood. Went to Upstate New York for college, came down here post-college, went to law school, did a bunch of random jobs.

Undergrad... there's this pattern of me trying a little bit of everything at any point in my life. So even my undergrad, I pretty much tried every single major under the sun. I started off with pre-med, which quickly fizzled out. Went to engineering school within my school, but the engineering portion didn't go as well as I thought it would. I think for engineering I might have stuck through it if I was there from the beginning, but because I kind of joined awkwardly in the middle, it kind of caught me off guard. I tried philosophy, economics, political science, and then I eventually ended up with English just out of convenience. But ironically, that's where I had the most fun. Not the literature mainly, but the creative writing and analytical classes like horror history and film, or Asian foods, some random classes that explored thought processes and analyzing things. I really enjoyed that. Which is kind of funny because before I got into college, I got in through my math score from the SAT. I had a near-perfect math score, but my English was sub-600. But I somehow graduated with an English degree, and then I went to law school after.

Yeah. I don't know what pre-law is exactly. I think I even took a law and ethics class, but at that point in my life I was completely outside the scope of that realm. I always kind of reflect back on where I was and where I am now, and the way I grew up, it's almost like a blank slate that just filled up little by little. So it was always hard for me to know, 'Oh, this is what I want to do, this is the track I want to go on.' It was more like, 'I need to learn this, this, and this; I want to experience this, that, and that because I don't know anything about it to even know where I want to go or what I want to learn.' So I think that's why I always had a hard time settling with one thing, and I just ended up trying almost everything.

Yeah. I think that mainly came from me being kind of tired of math. After studying so hard, my brain kind of imploded. I just didn't want to look at a math problem ever again after the SAT. The main reason I was good with math and wanted to go to Georgia Tech at first was for the architecture program. But all of that just kind of fizzled out. I was just curious about discovering myself, which is why I ended up at Binghamton, which was a liberal arts school at the time. Now it's transformed again — it started with engineering, went to liberal arts, and now it's mainly economics and business school focused. They're expanding to law school too, funny enough.

Yeah, it is an actual island. I forgot the technical term, but you can call it an island — there's water on all sides. It's connected to the main body of New York. If you look at the map, it looks like a big fish. Long Island was pretty much... if you've ever watched Parks and Rec, if you imagine Eagleton in real life, that's pretty much what some parts of Long Island feel like. A lot of well-off people lived in Long Island and mainly commuted into the city to work, or they had their own practices because the majority were lawyers and doctors.

Yeah, I guess you can consider it the suburb of New York. Jersey probably wants to think of themselves as a suburb, but Long Island is the true suburb. There was actually one point I remember hearing how Long Island wanted to declare themselves their own state or region. I was like, 'Man, you guys are really acting like Eagleton right now.' But that's the kind of place I grew up in — a predominantly Jewish community, a lot of Greeks and Italians. It's kind of the well-to-do version of the boroughs of New York.

Not at first. When I first came back to the states after living in Korea, I think I was one of three Koreans or any Asians in my elementary school. But that pretty much exploded once the Koreans and Chinese who settled in Queens started earning more money and moved out to the better parts of Long Island. Queens is still part of Long Island, but it's kind of the halfway point — not the nicest, not the worst. A lot of them started trending towards Long Island, kind of like how the Korean community started in Buford and started trending up to Johns Creek here in Atlanta. That's exactly what happened from Queens out to Nassau County.

Yeah. A lot of Koreans started like that, and then the majority moved down to Georgia and settled here once they saw how nice Georgia was post-Olympics, and compared to New York and California, it's stupid affordable. So there was that whole exodus from New York coming down to Georgia at one point. A lot of my parents' friends and families all moved down here at one point.

I think that explosion was between 2004 and 2008. I came here in 2008, so that's right around when everyone was migrating down to Georgia. When I came here in 2008, there were a fair bit of Koreans and Asians, but the real explosion didn't happen until maybe 5 to 10 years after, post-Olympics. Back in 2001, there were maybe one or two Korean grocery stores in the area; now there are about eight of them all throughout metro Atlanta. Back then, there were small,inky places; now there are really big H Marts and Assi. Georgia has pretty much become the next big native Korean hub. I think it's outpacing California and New York at this point. A lot of Koreans come here before they go to New York or California these days.

No, I applied to Georgia Tech because I had heard somewhere that Georgia Tech has a really good architecture program. It just coincidentally happened that my parents decided to move down. I just thought it was funny that I could have gone to Georgia Tech and been closer to home, but I guess it would have been a moot point anyway because I wanted to be away from home either way. So it worked out.

Yeah. My dad is the primary cause of moving around so much. I think we moved maybe three or four times even while we were in Long Island. He was just doing the whole keeping up with the Joneses, going from next house to next house. Once he made a lot of money selling the house because the property prices were ridiculous, he took all that money, came down here, semi-retired for a minute, settled down here for a while, then moved out to Arizona, then California closer to Nevada, then down to Texas for a minute, and now he's out in Korea. My dad just doesn't like to stay in one place. But I don't know if it's because of age or convenience, but I think he's pretty happy with Korea at the moment. I'm kind of glad for that, since our parents are only getting older. If they get more used to it, it's probably an easier transition to having some care or help. Although I kind of do want them to be closer to our family as time goes on, but I guess we'll see what happens.

Yeah. I don't think it's just the language thing either, because they got by. I tried my hand at a business for a minute last year, as you know. As I was experiencing it, I was in awe of how they got by successfully as business owners without even being able to speak the language. Me, a fully American-born and raised guy, struggling to run a business. How did they do it? I don't understand. It's crazy.

So I graduated from college and came down here because my family was down here. I pretty much uprooted my life that I spent four years with my friends, so that was a big moment of transition for me, having to restart myself socially and functionally. I kind of lazed around a bit, then I thought I had to do something. So I actually got my realtor's license. But at that point, I was still very green and had no idea how transactions and life functionally worked. I had the brains to get stuff, but I didn't know what to do with it once I got the license. Now I kind of regret it — with my experience now, if I could go back, I definitely would have been able to stick through it. But that didn't amount to much.

After that, I went to law school because while I was getting my realtor's license, I was actually enjoying the parts where they talked about the statutes and ethical codes. I thought that was fun, and it stuck around in my head for a minute. Part of it was my own intrigue, and part of it was trying to fulfill that whole parents' pride and joy aspect. So I thought, why don't I try to see if I can make it in law school? I just barely got into John Marshall Law School. It was kind of like low-hanging fruit among law schools, sadly. They were accredited, so they were legit, but they were 100% for-profit. That ended up being a blessing in disguise because of all the civil losses that happened, that's how I got my debt written off by the government. It was a very blessed moment.

I came out of law school with debt the size of a house. I always stressed out that I'd never be able to buy anything or do anything. I always just prayed about it. Eventually, I think God decided to be merciful and just allowed things to happen where the government wrote off my entire debt because they found that John Marshall was part of a list of schools taking advantage of the financial program the government was providing. So I was very blessed and lucky to have that written off. I think that happened right as things were firing up, but then it was shut down pretty much immediately. In that short window where the government was actually taking action for people, I squeezed through. My entire debt was written off.

Kind of, kind of.

You can't really step back into both. Both would require me to study for and attain the proper license. I got through law school and probably could have done it, but I was so unmotivated by the end. I was so jaded going through three years of law school and seeing how the sausage is made. There are good people out there who try to help and do a good job, but it's kind of silly. A lot of it was my naivety — I got into law school with the idea that 'no one is above the law' and 'I can help people.' I don't know if you've ever watched A Civil Action, but that was my romanticism of what a legal career was like — a David and Goliath story. I went to law school off that romanticism on top of everything else, and found out that the legal profession is all about turning people's misery into a commodity for service. That might be a little harsh to say, but that's just how it felt in my heart. It really turned me off because I like helping people and providing something positive into someone's life. I could have done that, but there's a whole joke about how attorneys become alcoholics and drug addicts because they're going through so much misery in the profession. I think they're close to being suicidal after dentists or something like that. But again, I'm generalizing. My heart wasn't really set on it. I tried to pass the bar, but I just couldn't sit down and study properly because I was so uninterested.

There's a refresher phase you have to go through, almost like a boot camp. A fellow member of my previous church was in a similar position, and out of necessity to provide for his family, he dusted off his degree and got back into it. He actually pulled it off, so kudos to him. If I ever really wanted to, technically I could do the same thing. I have a degree, so I'm eligible to sit; I just need to go through the ethics portion and study my butt off until I pass. But I'm not really interested right now.

If I wanted to, I do toy around with the idea. Sometimes the little bugs come up and bite me, and I think, 'That was kind of fun,' or 'It might be interesting.' But not enough for me to try to do it again, at least not in this phase of my life. I've experienced so much, I'm so tired of it. I just want to make a consistent income and provide for my family. Maybe once the kids are adults and out of the house, I might start to wander again. But right now, consistency is more important. I've had my fill of experiencing a lot of things, even in the past few years. Thankfully, Susanna was very supportive of all my decisions. I started off with insurance, went into financial advisory, then web development, then back to insurance, then the produce store, and then back into insurance.

No. I pretty much became a failure to launch. I was with my parents, just being a 백수, which in Korean means unemployed — just living with them, doing whatever, and helping out at their store. They were long-time dry cleaners owners since day one of American lifestyle. They had done it for over 30 years at that point.

They started in Long Island and then moved their business to Georgia. My dad didn't intend for that; it was a bad investment he made with all the money he brought from New York. A development company kind of screwed him over, so he lost a lot of money. He had no choice but to start up another store. Plus, he was watching his oldest son, me, be the way I was. He tried to think of ideas to help me out, tossing around ideas about starting a business together, like a liquor store or something. In hindsight, that would have been awesome if I had the know-how and help from my dad. But at that phase in my life, I was so blocked by this 'I don't want to be like my parents, I want to do my own thing' attitude. It's so stupid, but what advice for younger listeners — if you're in that phase of wanting to get away from your parents and not do what they tell you, you might want to reconsider.

Yeah. You can say it till you're blue in the face to younger generations, but we were there too. It's impossible to hear and see until it's too late. Hopefully, if there are one or two listeners lucky enough to realize it, it would be a blessing. But if I could turn back the clock, I would have jumped at the opportunity. I would have even taken over his cleaners.

Insurance was a completely random decision. I met Susanna and decided, 'Hey, I now have somebody who I might see myself with; I need to get a job.' So I started trolling ZipRecruiter looking for any job. The insurance gig came up. My current boss, who was my then-boss at State Farm, had posted a listing. I thought, 'I tried to do something salesy before with the realtor license; maybe I can try it again and see how it goes. Insurance can't be that bad, right? Just sit at an office, don't have to run around showing houses.' So I went in, we chit-chatted, we hit it off, and he hired me. I got my licenses. I guess I have a knack for taking tests when I want to pass them. I started the whole track, and that's pretty much how I got into it — purely to provide for my future family.

I still think it's crazy how they did it without speaking the language, figuring out how to talk to state offices, getting licenses. I have trouble wrapping my head around that. I need someone to help with that. But yeah.

What type of business does your dad run?

How did he even find clientele to get into that type of business? That's very interesting, because I would think how much demand is there for that? But apparently there's a lot.

That's awesome.

Whenever I think about things, my mind works by seeing interconnections between board games, jobs, or techniques. I see the overarching structure. The way I saw it, financial advisory was just a fancier version of insurance sales. You're talking to people about providing a service for a need. For financial advisory, it's almost always people with money. So it was a step up in glitz and glamour. A couple of times while doing insurance, customers would ask if I do financial advising, because State Farm pushed heavily on life insurance products that track the market. There was a slight overlay of insurance and finances. That always piqued my interest. I was fine with State Farm until they conducted a witch hunt. State Farm is like a mob boss; under the umbrella are all these agency offices, and agents are their employees. They turned a blind eye to shady practices until one day they decided to clean house. A lot of people, including myself, were unjustly fired. I had drunk the Kool-Aid — I thought State Farm was the best. But they kicked me out, so I decided to pursue financial advisory. I Google around and came across a program with Merrill Lynch, one of the most well-known names. It was called the FADP program. I got in because I had enough sales training and experience to sell myself. I sold myself to the guy who hired me. I really enjoyed it. I thrived on the whole 'look at me, I'm going to a fancy office' thing. I put on a suit, went to Midtown Atlanta, up to however many floors, into a small cubicle. They paid me an obscene amount — about $60,000 or $70,000 just to study for the Series exams. I wasn't even working; I was studying within the program and they paid me that much. That's crazy, but it just shows how much money they make.

I passed the Series 7 with flying colors — that's the harder of the two exams, testing on stocks, options, derivatives, market trends, analysis. The Series 66 is an ethics test, still not easy but not as technical. Between the Series 7 and 66, COVID happened. I didn't think it would affect me much. I thought I would finish the tests and enjoy it. Right before that, Merrill hosted their Christmas party — they rented out the entire top floor of a building, tons of amazing food, everyone dressed up. I was enjoying that life. Then the next month, literally crashed down to rock bottom. I was waking up in shorts and t-shirts, didn't feel like I had a real job. That's when I realized putting on a suit and going to the office really affected me mentally. I became demotivated to the point where I couldn't pass the easier 66 exam. I felt bad for my boss, who was a really good guy. It took a toll on me mentally. For what it's worth, Merrill Lynch and Bank of America are the same now. Since the financial meltdown, they have a bridge for people like me who have capabilities. They don't like to fire people; they hired them for a reason. So they gave me an opportunity to work in the banking sector at Bank of America. I did that for a bit, then tried to trend towards the sales end of banking as a bank advisor. I was slowly starting to enjoy office life again, not as fancy as financial advisory, but still a step back into it.

Coming out of COVID, I was at home so often, I started to think about doing something I enjoyed, something I was really good at. I grew up on computers since high school, so I wondered what it would be like to be a developer. I took a boot camp. I think it was the one at Ponce City Market, but I didn't know that these were all convoluted with third parties. It was supposed to be led by Georgia Tech, but obviously it was a third-party vendor. I did it through Georgia Tech, I guess. I really enjoyed it. I thought I was going to do well, and I was doing well, but I didn't realize how badly imposter syndrome would hit me. People kept telling me it's supposed to feel that way, but I was miserable. I don't like feeling like I don't know something; I thrive on knowing and teaching people. So I floated by. At startup, you get paid decently, they give you a fancy laptop, and a command center if you want to go into the office. I grew up a gamer, so I was into that lifestyle. But it started to feel extremely menial, and I didn't like the people I worked with either. Some of the leadership had a 'look at me, nothing gets done without me' attitude. It got to the point where the hiring manager, during my exit interview, acted extremely unprofessional. I couldn't process it — was he actually telling me off? He showed up just to tell me off. That's the kind of person he was.

After that, I fiddled with the idea of going back to insurance or trying to get my job back at Merrill Lynch. As I was coming out of it, I thought maybe I want to try a business. Then an opportunity fell into our laps. My in-laws were helping in the search. There was a very ambiguous listing about a store. When Susanna's mom described it, she read it as a government building with a small convenience stand. I imagined a nice office with government workers stopping by for coffee. It turned out to be a stall at Ponce City Market — a full-on grocery store. When we first showed up, we thought, 'No way I'm going to do this.' But for some reason, it caught my attention. I thought, 'I think I could actually do this.' That was a little bit of hubris and naivety, which was the worst combination. It was probably the biggest mistake of my life.