MUST WATCH: Mullin Confronts Anti-Plastics Witness About All The Things She Has Containing Plastic

Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Bradford, in your testimony, did I understand you right that you want to end all plastic manufacturing?

I said the plastics industry must be stopped.

So does that mean in plastic manufacturing?

In my dream world, but I think that... I don't mean to be kind of sitting here. I just point out what's going to replace your glasses.

I do know this is around your face. They're made of plastic.

Maybe no, I don't know what they're made out of. I'll just point out some things here because I just want to be realistic when we're having conversations. When statements are made like this, I just want to open people's eyes and say, well, what's the solution? Your water bottle in front of you.

This one? Yes, that plastic. No, the lid is plastic, right?

I would say to your question that I would first be concerned about single-use plastics, and then we can talk about alternatives to this. Your cell phone there, the plastic... the case, but it's glass because the components inside... the components made out of... it's not plastic? Yeah, they are. The water that you filled that water bottle up with, where'd you fill that water bottle up? Out of a water filling station, all right, and it was delivered by a drink station that was plastic. I didn't check the edges, the piping coming to it. Now you have a couple choices with the piping. We could go back to using wood, but then you have to line it with chemicals, or we could go back and use lead, because we used to have water piping that was lead, that was harmful to us. We go back to galvanized, but galvanized rust and had discoloration. We go back to copper, but copper has to be mined, and everybody wants to stop mining in the U.S., so use plastic to deliver piping. The shoe fill that water bottle up with today... I point this out because the clothes you have on, I guarantee you have plastic in it. The shoes you have on your feet, the soles of those shoes are plastic. So we talk about any manufacturer, plastic manufacturing, and everybody in here cheers when you say that, but everybody here is depending on plastic as you set. So if you want to end it, then quit using it. It's kind of like I don't shop at certain places right now because I don't agree with some of their policies. I choose not to do that. You can choose to not use plastic. Do your work. If you believe it, then live it that way. And if not, then tell me what the solution is.

Mr. Sunday, can you manufacture a car today without plastic? Because we talked about manufacturing. Sherman brought up manufacturing cars. Is it safe? But the components that go into the car, can you do that without plastic?

No, Senator. Increasingly so with the new mileage mandates, you increasingly need to use automotive components that are plastics derived. So we wouldn't have manufacturing today's modern manufacturing if we didn't have plastics.

Correct. Correct. Ms. Jackson, do you agree with that statement?

Yes.

So what's the alternative for manufacturing? Because we the Democrats talk about middle class wages. Middle class wages typically come directly from manufacturing. What is it that we're manufacturing that doesn't have plastic in it today?

Nothing. And you know what? It would increase the cost of everything if we turn to an alternative, and it would disproportionately impact low-income people who have lower incomes. It would be another regressive tax on the poor.

So according to your testimony, Ms. Jackson, it sounds like you're saying that the environmental justice agenda does more harm than good for low-income families. Is that correct?

Yes. And I have the unique opportunity to see both sides when the industry comes in the area and when it doesn't. As an auditor, I worked on Nissan North America. Nissan North America moved to Smyrna, Tennessee, where it built the largest automotive manufacturing plants, and the transformation was astonishing. It went from a community that was poor to a community that U.S. World News voted one of the top 10 places to retire. You had poor people in areas that were poor that became middle class, you had middle class people that became upper middle class, and a lot of upper middle class people that became affluent. They have attractions, they have amenities, they have housing affordability. The amount of prosperity in that area has resonated out three counties. Three counties. I've also had the opportunity to see when an industrial complex moves into the area where you're talking about high economics. I've also seen the other side where all of a sudden you have deteriorating buildings, empty storefronts, dilapidated housing, people standing on street corners, families that are broken. So we need to balance the fact that people's lives need economic upward mobility, and we can't just say we're going to take out an industry and leave people poorer than they were. Poverty causes the worst health care in this country. Poverty is the one that destroys lives, it destroys health, it creates trauma. So we need to make sure that when we're talking about these issues, we take into account the human loss of life, not just the environmental impacts.

Thank you. Thanks for indulging.