Flipping the Barrel - Tracee Quinnell, VP of HR at Liberty Energy

Good morning and thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So, Western Pennsylvania girl, country girl. Great place to grow up, but you know, we didn't have much. And I never realized that. I didn't know that we didn't have much. I didn't know we grew up differently than others. My mom especially taught my brother and I it doesn't matter what somebody comes from, it doesn't matter what they have, you love and you cherish every person that comes across your path. So it was a perfect way to grow up. And then eighth grade, we take these assessment tests. Lots of friends were saying you should be a nurse, and you should be a teacher, and my test said you should work in human resources. And I wasn't even sure that I knew what human resources was at that point, so I did a bit of research and I called our local hospital, tiny hospital, and they had a human resources department. So that was a new word at that time, you know, people used to say personnel, it was the personnel department, but they had moved to human resources. I asked if I could go and job shadow and just figure out what this human resources thing was. So I went, I spent a full day with them, and I remember I drank coffee that day, I had never drank coffee but I wanted to really fit in. So I wore a suit and I drank coffee, and I learned that this is what I was supposed to be doing. The test was right. It was taking care of people, it wasn't just making sure paychecks get out, it was genuinely taking care of people in their work life. So I knew in eighth grade, I knew this is what my career was going to be, and I molded my career after that.

Sure. So moving away to college, you know, I had never really been away like you said, and I was excited. I was excited to apply for college, I was excited when I figured out who my roommate would be, I was excited until it became real. From my parents set me up in this dorm room, and even that process I was great. I was feeling like I was going to have this new independence. The second they pulled away, I sobbed, sobbed uncontrollably through my first two weeks of classes. I can't imagine what everyone thought, but I was so afraid. I was afraid to be away from what was my security my whole life and what I had always known. And I will tell you that first week I thought, maybe college isn't for me, maybe I should go home and get a job in my hometown. But I kept telling myself, push through, maybe it'll be okay. And that has become something in my life because I am a crier when things change. So you know, something changes, I get nervous, I feel like I can't handle it, I feel like I'm not qualified to handle it. So I have told myself, go back to that day, you can't quit, push through, it's going to be okay. And it was. Two weeks later I was this independent woman an hour and a half away from my family, living my great college life. And then when I went to the UK I had the same experience. I was super excited, studying abroad, this is so fancy. And I got there and my confidence, I lost all my confidence again because it was new, uncharted waters for me. I was with people I had never met before, I was with especially people who I felt were maybe in a higher income class than I had come from. It was very different, so I sobbed, I cried and cried, and then told myself, you've got to push through this. So glad you know that has been multiple experiences in my life with new jobs, with moving to new cities. It's scary, and I think people are often told don't be afraid, everything's gonna be fine. Fear is a real feeling and it's okay to feel it, as long as you hold on to that for a second, go ahead and feel that fear. I cry, I don't know what other people do, but just wait because it's going to get better. Things are going to change. Sometimes that's our initial reaction, and quitting at that point could prohibit any of us from wonderful experiences in our life. So I go back to those days often and think, I still have them now. I am almost 42 years old and I still have those crying days, and then I tell myself, hold on, push forward, because you're never going to know what wonderful opportunities lie ahead if you quit because of that fear.

Okay so it was totally coincidence. I would love to say that I was recruited to come into this industry, not at all. I was working, I had started as a student worker in the university when I was finishing school, and my HR experience at this point was in a book and working with faculty and staff members. So when I come back from the UK, I went back to the church I had been attending in college and was chatting with the greeter that day. And we got to talking, turned out he was the CEO for a small oil and gas company at that time. His conversation led to, hey I could really use some help in HR and you know I raised my hand like oh pick me. I said well here's my experience, here's what I've done. And he said great, let's talk about this. So we did and I went to work for this company. Remember I am coming from working with faculty and staff at a university to oil and gas. Culture change major. And you know what, I loved it. People I told were like oh it's going to be a bunch of wild cowboys, and I thought I could handle that. But here's why I loved it: every person I met out there on our locations reminded me of my dad, hard-working blue collar working so hard to make ends meet for their family. I was right away thinking, this is me, this is where I'm meant to be. I loved that it was a good feeling. I loved helping those people that are working so hard out there, and was cognizant day one, I don't have a job in this office if those people aren't out there working in terrible weather, long hours, being away from their families. They're the ones doing the hard work. So it just fit for me.

I did, and it was trial by error. You know, I had a book, I had a textbook to base all of my decisions for these people's careers off of, and quickly learned that what you learn in college, it's a great basis, but real world can be quite a bit different. So there was a woman who worked there, she had handled all of the payroll, and she was lovely. She supported me and she made me feel valued, and she knew I was brand new. She really helped me through those times. And the guy that I had met, the CEO, that was huge too. He took a chance on me, he had no idea but took a chance on me. I will tell you that I learned a lot by mistakes. I remember at one point an employee had done something, and the CEO and I sat down and talked, and I said well my HR training tells me we should fire him, and he said hold on, Tracee, let's talk about this. We talked through like this is someone's livelihood, this is their life, people make mistakes. Such a good learning moment for me because my text told me well someone does this, you should really think about terminating them. And that's not real life. People deserve second chances. Let's take a step back and look at the whole situation. In addition to that, I found two mentors there. They had come in as insurance brokers for the company, and I decided I really liked how they both ran their business, how genuine they were as human beings, and how other people respected them. So I just decided I'm gonna follow in their footprints. I am going to tuck myself under their wings rather than being asked to be tucked under someone's wing and learn from them. And it was a great experience.

Absolutely. So as you can guess, we're driving to Texas, final drive there, and I'm sobbing of course, I sobbed the whole way there because I'm moving away from my family. And then I got to work. I made it through the first day and I went home and I sobbed the whole first night, and I thought this is too much for me. I am made to be a small company girl, I can't handle this, I don't have any experience in a giant company. So went home that night and cried for several hours, and then reverted to my story of going to college and thought okay, Tracy, suck it up, let's see what works here. So I went in with a much better attitude the next day. And it was shocking. Things that a smaller company can do sometimes just aren't the same things a command and control giant company can do. So I was used to being very family oriented with our employees, and moving to this company that was different. It was more of employees being identified by a number. I have a big heart for people, so I was wanting so badly to become more integrated with these employees, and it wasn't something that was done there. So I took a step back again and tried to learn. For me, I wanted to jump in and do things how I always knew the right way was to do it, and what I learned was I needed to take a step back and kind of see how things ran here. So I did, and really watched how things ran, and it was fine, it wasn't totally my comfort zone. But what I realized during that time was I didn't have the ability to take care of employees how I wanted to, and that was the passion part of my job, that's what made me want to go to work every day. So I went and talked to my boss about it. I was excited because I hadn't had an HR boss before, so finally somebody that I can bounce things off of and someone who will teach me. And this gentleman did not want to do any of this. To be completely transparent and maybe embarrassing to myself, he did not like me, he did not think I was good at my job. He told me one day that I was too quick to help others and I made other people look bad by doing that, so I needed to wait on requests before I responded to things. That was heartbreaking. I had always been patted on the back for responding to things and taking care of things quickly. So I struggled a lot. I think that it was a hard dynamic. When you're going into a role, he was a VP and I was a director, so I slid in underneath him no problem. I maybe didn't give him the respect right off the bat that I should have in that role because I felt that he wasn't taking care of his employees well enough. We had a tough relationship. Going back, I could certainly have done better myself. But it was hard having a manager that everything I said and every idea I came up with was told no, just no, no response, no reason why. So I found someone there. I decided I need an ally here, I need someone who believes in the HR I believe, and that's genuinely taking care of people. So I found a woman there, she was VP of another division, and I admired her, I respected her. So I just asked her, 'Hey, can you be my mentor? Can I bounce things off of you?' And she became that, and it helped so much because I needed to know I wasn't crazy. I needed to know that just because I was being told no for every idea, they weren't bad ideas. So I went and found my own mentor, and she became an ally, and someone I still look up to this day. So it can be very tough, but you've got to make it work for yourself. You either walk away or you figure out a way to make it work.

A couple of things. One, I try to get those managers some management training and management coach. Huge, can be life-changing. But that's external. Internally, I think the best thing to do is from an HR standpoint, I go support that employee. Sometimes it makes for an awkward situation or a tough situation, but I like to be very apparent about supporting that employee, very open. And then HR, I do think HR's role is to take a step with that manager. Part of our role is teaching and guiding. When we talk about career progression, it's not just moving from a category one to a category two, it's also growing horizontally and vertically at the same time. You need to grow. Maybe your soft skills need a little more training, maybe the way you write emails needs to be softened a bit. So I do believe that when we have a manager like that, HR really needs to step in and do some active work with that manager.

Sure. It's a crazy story. So I got a call from the Vice President of Liberty who I had worked with at Superior and Neighbors before. We had a good long-term relationship, good friendship, and I respected him a lot. He called one day and said hey we're looking for an HR person. I thought okay, I'm living in Houston, this is Denver, great weather, why not at least explore it. And it was a smaller company again, so going back to where I could build again, I could build something out. I just love that. So I said all right great, I'll fly out and let's meet. So I flew out and I came to Liberty's corporate office downtown Denver, beautiful, view of the mountains. I came in and everybody was so nice. I'm talking everybody, like so happy and so nice. I thought all right wait a minute, you want me to be your HR lady? Maybe you're all schmoozing me because everybody kept saying we care so much for our employees. So I left and I thought this place is either incredibly just off the charts amazing or they were schmoozing me. So I went home and I thought about it. I thought I worked in this industry long enough to know there's no company that runs this well. So I declined their offer. And then we had a conversation and I said I just don't think there's any place that runs that well. You told me all these things about how much you care about your employees and I don't think there's any company that runs that well. So I agreed to come back to Denver and I said pick me up at the airport, I'll bring my coveralls and steel toes and take me to the field, and I'll call you when I'm done. In my head I was proving to myself that they don't treat the employees out there that well, because that's how you know how a company is. How do you treat those employees who are brand new, no experience, green hats, putting in all the physical labor? So I went out to location, they dropped me off, and I was sold, I was sold in five minutes. I couldn't believe the morale and the positive attitude and the pride in the Liberty logo. So I hung my head, I called the CEO back and I said okay you were right, you guys are this amazing, so I agreed to come that day. I made a decision that day and said yes I want to be part of this. And I will tell you that has never changed. This company is something so refreshing. Oftentimes an HR person is fighting the people above them saying hey I really want to do this for our employees and being told no. I don't have that here. Positivity trickles down from the top. When I say hey this is the right thing to do for our employees, the response is great, Tracy figure out how to do it. So it was true, they were being real the whole time. It's really a place that genuinely takes care of their people.

100%. This is the negative part of the Tracee talk. I was always rewarded from the time I started my career for putting in all the extra hours, answering things quickly, coming in at the crack of dawn, staying until the evening. And I knew the battle I had coming into this industry as a female, so I thought the way I get over that is be an overachiever, be a workaholic, and I had the energy to do it. So when I was single, great, no one cared. But once I got married I was still doing it, and my focus was my career is not going to keep propelling forward if I stop working these hours. So I didn't. I lived on an airline, I worked endless hours, I was always the first person in the office, I always stayed until after dark and everybody was gone, and I continued to get rewarded for it. So what that told me was this is how you work forward, Tracy. Thank goodness I have an amazing husband who didn't leave because I didn't give the time to my marriage that I should have. I was so focused on if I don't do this I am never going to move forward. Fast forward five years ago, I have a child, a little boy, and I was in the hospital on my computer. He's 12 hours old and I'm answering emails. My husband said Tracy, stop. And I realized at that point I didn't know how to stop. It was nobody saying to me I expect you to answer this email the day after your child is born, but I had ingrained in myself you are making it, and if you change anything it's going to stop, it's going to be taken away from you. So nine days after he was born, I went back to work. Very solidly the biggest regret in my life. I will never get that time back. I can't have any more children, so I missed so much of that time when he was young because I felt like I had to. No one told me that. I want to be very clear, no one said Tracy you need to come back to work. That was never said internally. I was telling myself you have to get back there or your career's going to halt right now. The world is going to move on without you, other people are going to take on your duties, and that's it, you're stuck. Good luck coming back. So huge regret. I didn't realize it was a great regret until probably two years later, and I started thinking what was I thinking. So my recourse for that is to help other women here not feel that. We have a program where we make sure that our women are paid 100% for their 12 weeks off no matter what that takes. There's always some short-term disability and things like that, but this country is not good at paying women for taking time with their newborns. So we make sure that we say take this time off, do not take your computer home. We sit with the women before they go off and say let's make sure all of your duties are taken on. When you want to check in, let's do that. Let's all get on a Zoom and see your baby if you feel good about it, if you want to check in and know what's going on. Someone needs to tell them it's okay. Someone needs to say to them do not work for this time, everything will still be here. I think sometimes it takes a woman to say that to another woman. I will make sure you can come back to this, everything will be fine, but go take this time off. So we have to be active about it because nothing in this country is telling us that it's great to be off and go back. We have to be outspoken about it and truly say to someone sit down face to face and say you have to take this time off. It's okay. And everything will be fine when you come back.

It's tough. It's very tough because I think sometimes we get feedback so differently than men do, and I don't often think that's intentional or malicious, but it's an unconscious bias thing. So you breathe, number one. Breathe. When I get feedback, I don't react to it right then at all because your first response is always going to be an emotional reaction, and we know what mine is. So I may read it and discard it, and then the next day I'll take a look at it because I don't want to react to that feedback with emotion. Even if it's in a meeting and somebody says something, I don't take it personally because I try to remember they're not attacking Tracee Quinnell, they're attacking the VP of human resources for a decision. So I try to separate those things. I also keep in mind that whatever feedback I get, I can make myself better. So even if somebody does intentionally mean maybe a bit of harm in that feedback, there's probably a bit of truth in there. So take it with a grain of salt, but can I make myself better? Oftentimes we hear men are called assertive and women are called bossy. But sometimes if somebody would say something like that, or you know she's very loud, well this is the voice God gave me. So I execute who I am. That has probably been the most powerful piece for me. This is me, and I'm going to execute that every single day. I might not make everybody happy, I might not be everyone's best friend, but if I can do the best job that I can knowing I'm doing it ethically and morally, the rest of it, this is me, this is what you get. I've got to accept myself because if I don't accept myself, if I'm always trying to talk like this and that's not my voice, I'm not shouting, this is just how I talk. This is me. I'm accepting myself and executing that. Once I'm comfortable and confident with it, that's going to shine out to everyone else.

Absolutely. So I have been, I'm not obsessed, it's probably a strong word and that might be an accurate one, obsessed with red bottom shoes for years. I would see women in these shoes in ads in New York City on Wall Street, and I looked at those shoes and I thought someday I'm gonna have those shoes. This has been from probably the point where I was a manager, then a senior manager, director, and VP, so it's been quite some time. I kept telling myself someday Tracy, you will get to a point where you deserve those shoes. They're not cheap, and it took some saving, but I kept thinking to myself what is that day? So I scheduled for myself: when you get to be a VP, Tracy, you get to buy yourself those shoes. So I did. I became a VP just a year ago, and I went out and ordered myself some red bottom shoes. And I put these shoes on and I feel amazing. I feel powerful, I feel like I can conquer the world. Here's the funny part: why didn't I buy these shoes 10 years ago? Why didn't I buy these shoes when I was a manager? It's okay to feel amazing when I was a manager. I told myself you don't deserve this until you've climbed this high up. What I want to say to everybody listening is yes you do. Go buy those shoes, or something whatever that is for you, maybe it's a new scarf that you like to wear. Don't wait. I'm not just good enough because I got the VP title finally. I was good enough when I was a manager and I was rocking my job. I should have saved up and bought the shoes back then and walked down the hallway feeling as amazing as I do now when I wear them. I'm going to take my shoe off now, I'm sure no one has ever done that on your podcast. Those people listening, here's the red bottoms. Go buy this. This doesn't mean you have made it in your career. This means you are confident in yourself, you believe in yourself. Go buy them at that point. Don't wait until you've reached this point. I'm gonna be 42. I wish I had bought these at 30. Be confident in yourself. I wish back then I would have said, execute who I was. I am red bottom worthy back then because you're worthy all through your career when you're giving 110%. You're worthy. Period.

Thank you both so much. I have enjoyed this immensely.