Interview with Julie Kleffel - Triumph Over Tragedy in Divorce

Hi, Tom. Good morning.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be with you this morning.

Well, I'm a mom, and I am a banker, and I'm a daughter and a sister, and I am a fourth-generation Central Floridian. Live right here in Orlando.

That is correct. That's my day job. That's a lot of title there, and we'll get to that in a little bit.

Yes, I was married at 18 years old, right out of high school, my first semester in college, right before I turned 19. So young and full of hope and thoughts of what life was going to be like as a young married woman.

So right after I got married, I moved out of Central Florida and moved up north, so uprooted from everything I knew, and spent some time in the far northern parts of Michigan and learned a lot during that time. I was married eight years before I was divorced to a man that I knew well and my family knew well. Unfortunately, there was some pretty horrific things that happened during that time, a lot of which I was not aware of, and when they came to my attention, although we tried to work through those issues, we weren't able to, and so divorce ultimately became the choice. And it was extremely difficult because I'd come from a lifelong history of lots of strong, long marriages, and so it was very difficult for me to make that decision and process through that.

Unfortunately, that is the case. I did a simple dissolution of marriage, and if I were to share with your viewers something that I learned in the process, it was the value that I would have had had I had someone really guiding me through the process and helping me think through some of the things that I just couldn't see, mostly because I was young and immature and really spiraling from the events that had happened. And I walked through probably one of life's most difficult things without any help. If I had to do it all over again, I absolutely would have had support from legal counsel. What ended up happening in the process is that my former husband and I owned a business, and I gave up the business with no financial compensation. We sold our home, and I walked away with about $750 to my name and a few pots, pans, and plates. And I had no job. I gave up the car, I gave up the dog. And shortly after I walked away, what I learned is that I was getting ready to go through an IRS audit, and I had no idea what was going on in the finances at that time, and was really in a difficult situation. So I would have loved to have had counsel in that process. I learned a lot of lessons the hard way.

Well, fortunately I have some amazing parents and a great support system personally, and I also have a very deep faith, and I leaned into that faith, and I pulled my support system around me and I said, 'Now what?' And from some great advice from my mom, she said, 'Well, we need to make a list. What are the things that you need to do next?' And so we worked together to make a list of the things I needed: I needed a place to live, I needed a car, I needed a job. And she said, 'You know what, let's write it down, let's prioritize and work through it.' And within about 30 days, I was able to work my way through what was next. Really, Tom, what I've learned in my life is sometimes it's just about doing the next thing. And there were days when that was brushing my teeth and getting out of bed and putting on clothes. But once I was able to focus on the list, it gave me perspective and helped me work through what was a very difficult time in my life.

Absolutely. My faith, I call it my big faith, and we'll talk later about my little faith, but my big faith is absolutely the foundation of everything that I do in life. And from my perspective, if you really walk that faith out, God continues to show himself faithful. And for me, I've had to do that many chapters in my life, and God is always faithful.

That is correct. I had to find a career, and I found banking. I had a really good friend that was in the banking business that was part of my support system, and she said, 'Have you ever thought about banking?' And I said, 'Not really. I barely balanced my checkbook. I can't imagine.' She said, 'It's a job you're either going to love or hate, so you might want to take a look because it's a lot about people and marketing and sales and a little bit about math.' And so I began the quest or the journey to find my way to banking and had to start from the bottom.

I did. I started as a part-time teller and customer service representative for a bank that's no longer around, but I learned it from the ground up. My friend's advice was excellent: if you love it, run and do more of it, and if you don't like it, you're not passionate about it, leave quickly. And I found great passion in the industry and things I could learn. But I also knew that the normal path is a long time before I get to management and a long time before the career is providing substantial financial support for anyone. So it was definitely a leap of faith to try it, but I did start as a part-time teller and began my career working my way up through the very important parts of the bank from the floor to the ceiling, so to speak.

That's correct. You know, it's interesting how I worked my way through it. I think the most important things I took away from that experience is one, I really did throw myself into the work. I wanted to learn every aspect of the job, and so I spent a lot of time before hours, after hours reading and consuming everything I could about the banking industry, from the credit policy manual to the procedures manual to everything that was available to me. And then really asked a lot of questions with a lot of curiosity. And then I found friends within the organization I was working for at the time that were willing to take a chance on me, and a lot of great mentors along the way. And I really have a big belief that mentors are a huge part of any professional or honestly personal journey. You should have a whole bunch of mentors, and I had a lot of great ones along my career and still have them. And in that particular process, what I learned is you do have to ask for what's next, and you can't sit still. And so I just walked myself into the president's office and said, 'Hi, my name is Julie, and I work here. I'm not sure you know me, but I'd really like to do more, and I want to get my way into management. How do I do that quickly?' And fortunately, he actually took the meeting and didn't shut the door in my face, which he probably could have at the time.

I did. So eight years after my divorce, I found my soulmate, and he was the love of my life. His name was Eric. And we got married shortly after we began dating. And unfortunately, two years after we were married, he passed away suddenly at the age of 30, four months after our beautiful daughter Faith was born. And Faith has special needs; she has Down syndrome. So I was a new mom, two weeks back from maternity leave, finding myself as a widow and trying to figure out how to successfully support my stepson at the time, who was ten, and my four-month-old baby. And so again, I was faced with the 'do the next thing' conversation and leaning into my faith and how do I move forward. And for me, it was a great support system within my pastoral group, within my parents again who have been my rocks along the way, but also knowing that I had a little one that needed me to step up and be there for her. So I took those same principles that I did when I was divorced and took those through the death of my husband as well.

At that time, I was a senior leader in the organization, working my way up and through to the executive suite of the bank. I was not all the way at the top of the bank at that point; I was kind of upper chair management. So yes, a very demanding job, not nearly as demanding as the one I have today. It was a much smaller company at the time. But I would tell you that for me, the most important things that I did to juggle life was one, I sought counseling. So two weeks after my husband passed away, I immediately got professional counseling, which I would highly recommend to anyone that's going through a difficult time. You need a counselor, i.e., your attorney at law, and you need a counselor that can help walk you through. And so my counselor ended up starting as a grief counselor, helped me then process my divorce which I had not really dealt with, but then eventually became my executive coach and my life balance, work-life balance coach. And I was in counseling for almost a decade, and I highly recommend that; it was very valuable. And then the juggling of things was building a team, Tom. Really, it was about an A team, a B team, a C team, a D team. Everybody needs a village when you're raising children, especially post-divorce or tragedy, and anyone that's a working professional needs a village. And so I built out a village, and that village was family, friends, and hired help to get me through life. I found I had to hire a lot of people to do all the things my late husband did, but I figured it out. So support system, counseling, and making sure that you have an A, B, and C team really makes a difference.

That's correct.

Sure. So first, I would say give yourself permission to grieve. So I had to give myself permission to grieve the loss of my first marriage through divorce, grieve the loss of my second marriage through death, and then remind myself that everyone has a story. And for me, the thing that helped me the most was hearing stories of others that had difficult circumstances and me being able to focus my energy on helping them. And I found that through some group counseling that really helped me. I found other people that had walked in similar shoes, and I was able to kind of pour my life into them. I think sharing the story makes it real and makes it palatable and makes it transparent, and hopefully you can give back. I found that having a purpose, which is impacting lives for me, and I do that at work, I do that at home. And I found that doing practical things that helped me stay out of that dark place, if you will, kept me from spiraling, were making lists and checking them twice, pulling teams and support systems when I was finding myself in a difficult place, and asking for help, which is I think the hardest thing because asking for help means you have to admit 'I can't do it alone,' and I'm pretty independent normally. But I learned that asking for help gives other people joy. And for me then, I was able to kind of expand my family and my network, and now I'm able to lean into those people for other things. So those would be the things I would share with your audience. And I would just tell you, hope anchors your soul, and there's always hope. And God stretches and grows me every day, and I am a better person, a better leader, and a better friend and mom and daughter and sister because of what I've walked through. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but I am on the other side, and there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a speeding train. It's the light and hope I have through my faith in the Lord and the joy I have in my lovely daughter and an employer that has been incredibly caring through the process as well.

I would love that. I would love that. It's always a joy to talk about faith and Eric and the fingerprints they've left on my life. So I would be more than happy to share more about that story with you and your listeners if you find it valuable. I would love to do it. So thank you for thinking of me.

Thank you. Bye.