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Ross Stevens
Founder & Executive Chairman, NYDIG

Why bitcoin is underestimated by so many, with Ross Stevens

🎥 Oct 11, 2023 📺 JohnGaltclip ⏱ 8m
Ross Stevens, philanthropist and CEO of Stone Ridge Asset Management, sits down with Michael Saylor and answers why so many people underestimate bitcoin. Ross explains how there are infinite dollars in existence and what the implications of that are, and how bitcoin is unstoppable. This clip is from the February 2021 MicroStrategy "Bitcoin for corporations" conference.
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About Ross Stevens

Ross Stevens, founder and executive chairman of NYDIG, has been a vocal advocate for Bitcoin in a series of public appearances, often discussing its properties as a monetary asset. He has described Bitcoin as "the best money we have" and "the best money we've ever had," arguing that it is a store of value whose supply is unaffected by demandhol. Stevens has characterized fiat currency as "vulnerable" and subject to "the whims of human frailties," while stating that Bitcoin is "the thing that's fixed." He has also described Bitcoin as "life insurance" in the sense of providing "freedom and dignity," and has said that the Federal Reserve's money printing "steals time" from people, particularly "the non-asset owners." Stevens has compared Bitcoin builders to medieval cathedral builders, stating that they are "working on something bigger than ourselves" and "working on sound money for Humanity." He has argued that Bitcoin's energy use will act as a catalyst for the development of "abundant clean cheap energy," claiming that "bitcoin mining can be located anywhere" and will allow humanity to "move the people to the power." In discussions with Michael Saylor, Stevens has stated that "if you are not long, you're short bitcoin" and that for companies adopting the "bitcoin standard," the results are "profound."

Source: AI-verified profile updated from Ross Stevens's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (4 segments)
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Ross Stevens0:12
It is awesome, it is all inspiring, and I think we just live in such a cynical age with so many people devoid of feelings, just kind of beaten out of us. I'm grateful for many things about Bitcoin. I think one of them is it's just wonderful that I need not be among the people who are devoid of feelings. I think that relates to another question: why people underestimate Bitcoin so much and what do they underestimate most about Bitcoin? That one's easy. The ferocity of the Bitcoin community for Bitcoin. That is underestimated. I don't speak for the community, I speak for myself, but I think there are two core views of the community. The first view, we'll call it the individualist view, is that money is not the root of all evil. Money is a root of all sovereignty. It's the authority to act in the world as we see fit, as long as we most unprepared escape the accelerating fiat flood. And it's raining outside pretty hard, so let's get as many of those living on society's fringes, not just in the US but everywhere, let's get them in the ark as soon as possible. Nothing is more important. What I would say though is that these two views of the Bitcoin community are not mutually exclusive, and in fact every single bitcoiner I know has both of them in their minds. One of the things that really got me going and a lot of bitcoiners going was last March when Kashkari, who's president of the Minneapolis Fed, said there's an infinite amount of cash in the Federal Reserve. An infinite amount of cash in the Federal Reserve. You could almost hear the other 11 Fed presidents saying, 'Neil, you're not supposed to say that part out loud.' Right. The American people are really smart. They may not have gone to the same schools as Neil or worked at the same firms as Neil, but they're smarter than Neil. And one infinity, I don't need to know calculus or theory of limits to know that my $50,000 divided by infinity means my $50,000 is worthless. Why would I hold my life savings in something with infinite supply? I might as well go to the beach and exchange it for grains of sand. They're infinite supply too. So I think what Kashkari is really telling us is that fiat should come with a warning label, like cigarettes come with a warning label. But instead of the cigarette label saying these are bad for your health, the fiat warning label would say these are bad for your wealth. And the cigarette pack has this skull and crossbones on the outside. I'd like to see the Treasury start printing the infinity sign on our cash. So if you got a $20 bill, under each of the numbers in all the corners it would just have a red warning label that says 'divide this number by infinity.' Remember, as I said earlier, a central bank can control the supply of money. They can't make it. I give them all mulligans. You just haven't put the time into it. I mean, Jamie Dimon calls it a fraud, yet it's much more real than fiat. Larry Fink calls Bitcoin an index of money laundering. I think it's more akin to an index of money printing. Warren Buffett calls Bitcoin rat poison. That one is shameful. Because Bitcoin is giving life, not taking it. It's giving life right now to tens of thousands in El Salvador and Pakistan as well. It's giving life, not taking it. And soon to be millions, and with Strike and NYDIG and Lightning, soon to be billions. So fraud, money laundering, rat poison, Bitcoin? It's just intellectual laziness. I think people also underestimate just how unstoppable it is. Bitcoin is just unstoppable. It'll have fits and starts as it has, of course, that's for sure, but it is here to stay forever. And that's for a simple reason. Banned mining, it all went underground. Usage exploded. Mining in Pakistan after the ban exploded. It was so profitable to mine in Pakistan that eventually the government themselves, a province, started a Bitcoin miner and they changed the legality of it. So these are the three of the four most populated countries in the world effectively kind of said Bitcoin's banned, where new highs even as we speak. And I think about our own country, I really don't think a ban is in store because I don't think it's possible. But we can just go there for a second. Let's just say the US banned Bitcoin. It wouldn't stop it, it would accelerate it. Remember, we kind of tried this once in 1935. We did actually ban and confiscate gold. Remember what I said before? You actually could do that. You can't confiscate Bitcoin. You could. And in the ensuing period of time till today, the dollar's depreciated about 85% versus gold. So it didn't work. I imagine trying to ban Bitcoin would be like trying to ban the internet. And it might even be speech because it's code, so it might even be protected by the First Amendment. But regardless, Michael, none of this matters. None of this matters because with regards to confiscation, if you really boil all this down, what is it? It's just a password. It's the password to a private key, and that password can easily be stored with phrase memorization in my head. So confiscation off the table. Remember, gold has a vault. You can take the vault. Good luck confiscating my memory. And given all of this, it seems like individuals and corporations are being forced to take action. Look, I think everybody now has a choice, which is a good thing. And it's a choice they make, you make, I make, everybody gets to make on their own. You can stay on the fiat standard, that's available, in which rulers and given that I've made my choice, you have to make yours. And everybody at this conference has to make theirs. I will tell you, I am working tirelessly towards the future with the globally adopted inflation-proof common currency for the world, one that billions can opt into as their peaceful weapon of choice. Satoshi solved the Byzantine generals problem. Bitcoin solves the military generals problem. And when you think about trends in anything, you're a tech guy, all you got to do is follow the brains even more than the money. The brains know first. Where are some of the smartest people in the world shifting their careers to focus? Where are some of the best developers in the world going? They're going to Bitcoin. And I'd never underestimate the internet itself. They were incalculably underestimated. People incalculably underestimate Bitcoin. Totally understandably. But you, Michael, MicroStrategy, your colleagues, I think you're doing everybody an incredible service by having this conference, by having this talk, and creating a platform for these ideas to be introduced. So look, you've just heard from a guy with a background in financial services and a background in Bitcoin. I straddled both worlds, so I offered my perspective. But it's only my perspective colored by my experience. You're a fellow founder, you're a fellow entrepreneur, you're a fellow CEO. You've got your perspective. You're a tech guy. What do you think about this? And what do you think I've said and what I've missed?
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Michael Saylor7:49
Well, you know, Ross, I think there's clearly a macroeconomic wind that's blowing, and I don't think any corporation can afford to ignore it.
I'm just so inspired. I didn't realize there were so many institutions that were moving into this space as aggressively as they are. What a difference a year makes. So I guess we'll wrap our session right now. I want to thank everybody that's been with us for this session, and we'll pick up with our next session on corporate strategy and Bitcoin in five minutes. But Ross, thank you for everything. Great to chat with you.
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Ross Stevens8:36
Michael, good to see you as always. Take care.