Mackinac Moments: Debbie Dingell, Ford's Steve Croley sit down with Devin

Welcome back to our post here on the porch of the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island as we continue our coverage of this year's policy conference. Very happy to be joined now by Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, well known to all Flashpoint viewers, and Steve Crowely from Ford Motor Company. And Steve, let me start with you and this huge announcement that you've made today. These things have been in the works for a long, long time. Tell me a little bit about how all this came together.

The commitment to electrification hasn't become clear to people by now, but coming off the comments yesterday from my conversation with Pete Buttigieg here, I think a lot of people think that we're still pushing all this a little too quickly for — pick your reason — it's still too expensive for many people to afford, the grid may not be ready for it, on and on and on. Talk a little bit about your outlook on it.

I want you to address a little bit of the criticism that I know you hear: states falling all over each other, some describe as a race to the bottom, trying to outbid and outspend and feather the nest of companies that are already multi-gazillion-dollar companies. How do you address that criticism when you hear that?

Congresswoman, as you know, Michigan has taken its lumps over some projects that didn't come — Kentucky, Tennessee, most recently Stellantis deciding to move operations to Indiana. But the announcement today, the one earlier this year from General Motors — are we getting this figured out? What's the secret sauce here?

First of all, I think it's a very serious conversation that we have to have in Michigan, which I've been pretty blunt on, as you know. And we lost those packages, we lost those plants coming here because people look at the state. I've had this conversation with 20 different companies looking to locate a plant. When they go to other states, the red carpet is laid out, people come and welcome them, they have no idea if somebody's a Democrat or Republican, and it's the partnerships of the utility companies, the chamber of commerce, the welcoming environment. And I think quite frankly, Ford's announcement was a wake-up call for many people in the state when they didn't choose Michigan for two manufacturing facilities, which is why there was an all-out effort to attract GM. Everybody was part of that. The governor worked very hard on that, but I've talked to Mary Barra multiple times on that. I'm pleased by Ford's announcement today because they're my plants, they're my workers. Flat Rock has been very worried about what the future of that plant was going to be. Those workers, the UAW workers, they've been worried about their jobs. And at the Rouge plant, where the Lightning is being made, I said to the president, if you want EVs to be real, not fruit cars, come to Michigan, go to Dearborn, go to that Rouge plant and show people what an electric vehicle truck can do. And he did, and they've seen that. But Devin, I also want to say to you, you are right. I was very proud, I worked very hard with the environmentalists and the unions, the environmentalists hearing the union concerns. They stood at the White House, everybody together last August. But the three things we need to reach that 2030 goal... The companies know that for the environment, they've got to get there, they're committed. One, the vehicles need to be affordable. The tax incentive that has been there, that incentive until we get into more mass production and the cost come down, matters, and Congress has to renew it — we haven't done it. Two, we've got to invest in that R&D battery so that it's got the range that people have confidence in, and we've got to mine those minerals here. The next table I'm putting together with the environmentalists and the workers is that mine money that's got more people at it, but working that. And three, we do need to upgrade the power grid and build the infrastructure, all things we were trying to do with legislation that's become a little stonewalled. And I'm trying to work with the Joe Manchins of the world and my Republican friends to get there. We've got to do those things. The chips bill is also a big issue here. We need to get the COMPETES bill done. I know the secretary of commerce agrees with me, the president agrees with me. I know I have Republican friends and Democratic friends that think we need to get it done, and now the speaker is telling me hopefully by the Fourth of July, but there are others that want to play games with it. There are some things we should not be playing political games with, and when it comes to our economy and jobs in this country and our competitiveness, we should not be playing games with that. We need to bring chip production back to this country, we need to bring our supply chain back to this country, we need to get that bill done. The pandemic has taught us in many different ways we cannot be so dependent on other countries.

See, you're shaking your head on the chips bill. Microchips are like cereal for you guys, right?

Let me ask you about a thing that comes up a lot. I have the Mustang Mach-E and it's the best car I've ever owned, absolutely love it. What I'm trying to figure out is eventually what's going to happen with that battery. Am I going to need to replace it many years down the road, and if I do, where is it going to go? This is a huge conundrum that maybe we started making these a little ahead of our plan for and figured we'd figure it out. But where are we right now on that?

I also mentioned another one: range. What do you see, what are you seeing that maybe the rest of us haven't gotten a glimpse of yet toward what range capacity really can become?

Congresswoman, I want to go back to the jobs that you just talked about, in your district. That's a lot, but they're also — the governor took pains to point out there were UAW jobs. Talk a little bit about the outlook for union jobs in the manufacturing world, because the narrative, as you know, 10 to 15 years ago was that all those jobs are heading to places where nobody's expecting to join a union.

Well, I think we need to understand what unions do for all of us in this country, and how all of us have benefited from unions. I think if you talk to the OEMs, they'll talk about what an important partner the UAW is for them in terms of training, apprenticeships, and making sure you've got a skilled workforce. But I just would like to point out to everybody that we take things for granted: vacations, holidays, health insurance, sick days. Even in a school, the teacher-to-student ratio, the patient-to-nurse ratio — all have been negotiated by a union. All of us benefit from what unions have negotiated. I think the UAW is one of the organizations that helped create the middle class in this country. They want to keep working men and women strong. I'm obviously a strong union supporter, the president is a strong union supporter. And I think we're showing that we can compete with other states for those jobs.

And you took pains today to talk about the multiplier effect, which I'm not sure everybody fully can grasp when they hear two to three thousand jobs, and then what that — talk a little bit about that.

Sure. So if you start from 6,200 new union manufacturing jobs, or 3,200 here in Michigan, that adds to the economic ecosystem. That means those workers will have more money to spend, but it also means as we're building these additional vehicles, we'll have increased needs from our suppliers, for professional services, for different kinds of vendors. So we're stimulating the economy quite literally. Every dollar we invest or every worker we hire will multiply itself. There are different formulas for calculating those multipliers, but what it means is, given one worker, do we get four jobs or ten jobs?

Last thing I want you both to address is: there's been a lot of talk and a little bit of hand-wringing over whether Michigan has already been falling behind a little bit in the EV race. We're competing with Silicon Valley, competing with lots of different startups, there's a lot of exciting things happening out there. But talk about Michigan's positioning. Let me start with you, Steve. Obviously you believe that hub that's going on in Corktown is a big part of where we expect that information and technology to come from. But should we worry about Michigan's positioning right now in this massively important race?

Look, we have to be intentional. Nobody's going to hand this to us on a silver platter. A lot of people think let's just assume it's our birthright. One of my major priorities is making sure we put the world on wheels. We put the world on wheels, and I intend that Michigan is going to stay at the forefront of innovation and technology, and we're going to be the world leader in mobility. But all of us need to understand that that requires us to be very intentional in our work. We can take nothing for granted, we can take nobody for granted. We all have to work together. The governor is a leader on it, but the legislature, the federal, state, local levels of government have to partner with many different partners throughout this state, or we're going to lose that leadership role. And I don't intend to let that happen.

I didn't expect you would. Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, Steve Crowely, thanks so much for the conversation. Really great to have you both here as we continue our conversations from the Mackinac Policy Conference from the Grand Hotel.