Executive Vice President, Secretary, Chief Legal & Compliance Officer, Howmet Aerospace Inc
NAPABA Coffee House Episode 1: Lola Lin, Chief Legal Officer of Howmet Aerospace
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Lola Lin is the Chief Legal Officer of Howmet Aerospace, a leading global provider of advanced engineered solutions for the aerospace and transportation industries. Prior to her role at Howmet, Lola served as General Counsel at Airgas and held various in-house roles at Air Liquide and Dell. She is a graduate of University of Houston College of Law and the University of Texas at Austin.
Fun Fact #1: Lola is fascinated by cultures and countries, and her dream is to travel to 100 countries. (She is cu...
About Lola Lin
Lola Lin, Executive Vice President, Secretary, and Chief Legal & Compliance Officer at Howmet Aerospace, discussed her career and leadership philosophy in a February 2022 episode of the NAPABA Coffee House podcast. Lin described herself as a "Texas girl" raised in Houston by Taiwanese immigrant parents, and noted that she joined Howmet in June 2021, relocating to Pittsburgh for the role. She recounted undergoing a multi-hour psychiatric assessment as part of the hiring process, receiving a 16-page report, and stated that traits others might view as negative could be reasons she was hired, adding that "there's no trait that doesn't have both a positive and a negative aspect." Lin said she evaluates candidates using a "heart hire" approach, seeking individuals with energy and a willingness to embrace change. She argued that lawyers are well-positioned to take informed risks, saying, "instead of hindering risk we should use that expertise to advocate for and take informed risks." Lin described herself as a "business leader" rather than a legal person when entering business meetings, and acknowledged that being general counsel "can be a lonely endeavor." She also expressed a personal goal of traveling to 100 countries, naming Saudi Arabia's Neom project and the island of Socotra off Yemen as top destinations.
Transcript (95 segments)
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Genovi Fantono0:13
Welcome to Nepal Coffee House, presented by NAPABA, the National Asian Pacific American Bar Association, in collaboration with the Harvard Law School Center on the Legal Profession. My name is Genovi Fantono. I am in the Harvard Law School class of 2022 and I'm super excited to be producing this project as part of my student fellowship with the Center on the Legal Profession. I'm absolutely delighted to introduce you to the host of our show, Larry.
Larry grew up in Taipei, Taiwan; Long Island, New York; and Bellevue, Washington. He went to Harvard University where he was involved in the varsity fencing team. After law school, Larry started his career clerking on both the Second Circuit and for Justice Thurgood Marshall at the U.S. Supreme Court. After that, he spent a couple of years at the U.S. Department of State working on international trade and investment matters. Fast forward a few years, Larry moved to Hong Kong where he served as managing partner for the Hong Kong office of O'Melveny & Myers and where he served as general counsel for the APAC region for Goldman Sachs. He then moved back to the United States where he served as general counsel for NBC Universal, the general counsel for GE, and the chief legal officer and senior advisor to the CEO at CBS Corporation. Larry retired from CBS in 2020 and today he spends his time trying to resurrect his fencing and skiing.
I've been peer pressured by members of the NAPABA community into becoming the host of Nepal Coffee House. Meanwhile, our guest for today is Lola Lin, Chief Legal Officer for Howmet Aerospace. Howmet is a leading global provider of advanced engineered solutions for the aerospace and transportation industries. I won't go into too much detail as Larry will be interviewing Lola, but to give a quick overview, Lola is a Texas girl. She graduated from the University of Texas and the University of Houston College of Law. After law school, Lola spent a couple of years as a transactional associate before moving in-house at Dell. She then went on to Air Liquide where she was in various roles including deputy general counsel.
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Larry3:19
It is my great pleasure to introduce all of you to Lola Lin. Lola and I first met nearly 20 years ago when we were both working for the same company in Austin, Texas. We've stayed in touch ever since over the years and I followed her career progression and advancement with great interest. So let's start at the beginning, Lola. Tell us something about your early life, your upbringing, your parents, your background.
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Lola Lin3:44
Sure, Larry. I'm a Texas girl first and foremost, raised in Houston by Taiwanese immigrant parents. My father is an engineer and he was in... after about six years or so, then I moved on in-house to join you at Dell under your leadership for a couple of years.
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Larry4:19
Let me go backwards for a second and just ask, what is it that led you to law school? Because your parents were not from that profession. I imagine, like me, you probably didn't know any lawyers growing up because I surely didn't. So what led you to the law?
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Lola Lin4:34
You know, it's interesting. It was as simple as... you know, my parents really wanted me to be either a physician or an engineer, and I'm not that great at math frankly, and I don't like blood. So I thought law school might be an ideal choice for me. I wasn't really sure why, Larry, but I had a sense that I might enjoy it. I liked people and I thought, you know, speaking to individuals and... I wasn't exactly sure about it. I think they thought a lawyer was a great profession, but they had concerns that as a child of an immigrant, I may not be successful in the profession, and it worried them.
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Larry5:21
Do they have Perry Mason in mind in the back of their heads?
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Lola Lin5:26
No, I think what they were worried about was, you know, English is not my parents' first language, and you know, they were not of this society. They thought it was a very sophisticated profession in America, and they were concerned I wouldn't be able to navigate my way through that.
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Larry5:42
So if you hadn't chosen law—we talked about this earlier when we were talking about the session—what was your other career choice? What would that have been?
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Lola Lin5:50
Well, I think without parents and others that would worry about me, I would love to be a foreign war correspondent.
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Larry6:11
Why don't you describe to us your current role, which I think you've only taken on relatively recently. Is that right?
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Lola Lin6:16
That's right. I joined Howmet in June of 2021, so fairly recently. I moved to Pittsburgh and that's where I serve as the Chief Legal Officer, Executive Vice President, and Secretary of the company.
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Larry6:31
So you started this job roughly six months ago or so?
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Lola Lin6:35
That's right, yep.
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Larry6:36
And how's it going? I mean, it's a relatively new thing, getting a new job and starting a new position in a new city in the middle of a pandemic is not an easy thing.
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Lola Lin6:45
Well, I'm enjoying it immensely, Larry. It's been wonderful. I have to say the organization has been so receiving of me and welcoming, so that was a great start.
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Larry7:11
So how's the Chinese food in Pittsburgh?
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Lola Lin7:15
You know, actually it's better than you would think.
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Larry7:18
Really? Tell me about it.
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Lola Lin7:20
Yeah, I'm surprised to hear that. Yes, I am really impressed. Interestingly, there is a relatively large Taiwanese population here and I haven't quite figured out why. I think it's got to do with Carnegie and Pitt being here. But there is actually a lot of food that's available that even I had a hard time finding in Philadelphia and sometimes Houston, like stinky tofu.
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Larry7:45
Wow, that's amazing. It's a city of bridges, right? It's got tons of bridges crossing. I knew something about that. Yes, beautiful.
So when we talked last, you described to me something which I found really fascinating, which is that Howmet had a very good experience over the years utilizing a psychiatrist, a very well-known psychiatrist, to analyze and help determine whether talent would be a good fit for their organization. So before joining Howmet, being considered for a position, I did have to meet with that psychiatrist and go through a multi-hour interview process in which I received a 16-page report about my life and my work.
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Lola Lin8:37
So when you say multi-hour, I think you're actually understating it, right? It's not like one or two or three.
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Larry8:40
No, no, five hours of interviews as well as assessments. The total process probably about eight to nine hours after doing all the paperwork, doing the interview, finishing up on assessments.
Was any of it a surprise to you? Or maybe not, maybe you know yourself so well and none of it was a surprise?
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Lola Lin9:17
You know, it's a wonderful process, Larry. You know, we talked about it. It's grueling. It exposes you to someone you don't even know. You start at the very beginning of your life and you talk about your relationship with your parents and your childhood and how that might have impacted your choices through life. But what you get back is a report that talks about, from the outsider standpoint, what they think you're great at, what you might want to develop, what might be a gap between what you think you are doing well and what they think you are not necessarily doing well. It went into good detail about what I could do better. And they also talked to references, right, and got other perspectives on you as well on top of that.
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Larry10:15
That's right. They talked to about six people in my world, so it was a very extensive process.
So this report basically laid out in black and white all of the perspectives and input about you—the good, maybe the not so good, the pluses and maybe the minor minuses. It was all laid bare out there.
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Lola Lin10:41
That's right.
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Larry10:42
So when you read the report, would you have hired you?
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Lola Lin10:47
Of course, based on what the report said, of course.
No, you know, it's interesting, Larry. Some of the things that were highlighted... there's a finite number of words that someone can use to describe human behavior, but I think a lot of times they come with connotations where you think it might be negative, but actually there is no trait that doesn't have both a positive aspect and a negative aspect. It's just the extremes. It's an amazing process. When I think about it and I think about our parents' generation and how they would have reacted to going through something like this, because I know that I was raised to put my head down, work hard, and work will speak for itself, but you don't talk about yourself and people don't really talk about you. This is such a different process from that perspective, right, from the way we were brought up.
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Larry12:10
So clearly the company has spent a lot of effort trying to understand you and assess you from their perspective. So how much can you learn about a company looking in from the outside? I'm sure this is not the only job you've looked at; there have been other opportunities along the way. So how do you go about assessing an opportunity and making decisions about whether it's a good fit or not such a good fit? And what are the questions that need to be answered and how do you go about answering them?
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Lola Lin12:36
Well, I think it ties into a little bit of what we talked about. The fact that the company wanted me to go through that process gave me a bit of an insight into the company—that it was thoughtful about the leadership that it wanted to bring on, that it was willing to make investments in its management team. This process is a significant investment, and the fact that they were spending so much time trying to assess the talent... but I do, you know, we talked about this a bit, Larry, before: it's really difficult to understand what you might be walking into. For me, my philosophy on that is really to say, before I start looking for jobs, really deeply understand myself and what I'm looking to achieve in my next position. That becomes my north star. Those factors that I'm looking for become my north star in a job, and as long as it checks those boxes, I don't necessarily limit myself by a particular industry or having it be in a particular place or being colleagues with particular people.
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Larry14:10
It says a lot about how they go about assessing fit. I mean, they know themselves very well and of course they want whoever they hire to come in and be a huge success because that's in everyone's interest.
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Lola Lin14:19
Exactly. So that investment they make actually speaks volumes about how seriously they take the process.
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Larry14:25
So talk a little bit about the job that you left to take this role and your experience there and how that job prepared you for this next step.
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Lola Lin14:37
Sure. I was a general counsel at Airgas in Philadelphia, and that really was an incredible job. It really was. I worked for a CEO that was just somebody that I have such high esteem for, so that was really helpful. But most of all, the company was going through a lot of change. We had just been acquired by Air Liquide, and we had to justify the purchase, so that's always a tough integration. But at the same time, it was experiencing quite a few monumental events that all culminated at once. As a management team, we had to work through a myriad of very, very difficult issues all together. And at the same time, I had to get a new team, try to develop that new team, and organize it to best support the Airgas of the future. So it was a position that allowed me to become really well-rounded, kind of like being a war correspondent in a foreign country.
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Larry15:52
Exactly, just like I like it.
You also had a long tenure at Air Liquide, because you took on so many different kinds of roles as you progressed through the company. Tell us about that, because that also was part of your preparation for what's led you to where you are today.
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Lola Lin16:18
That's right. I joined Air Liquide, and like I said, it's a French industrial gas company. I was in their US affiliate, which was a significant size company. There we had a very broad array of product lines—industrial gas is oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, helium—and what's fascinating about that is that you basically work with every customer subset out there. So I was able to walk into a company that had such a broad base of customers. I moved on to many different areas: real estate, I learned environmental, I also started looking after some pre-litigation matters and crisis management, and so on and on. I was able to grow my skill set, which helped immensely to diversify my resume and make me a more attractive candidate for a company with multiple issues.
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Larry17:35
Well, in my experience, not all companies are set up that way where as an in-house lawyer you get to actually try on very different kinds of experiences. I can think of lots of other companies where the in-house departments are much more fixed and maybe even bureaucratic, and you go into a role and it's very hard to actually change into a completely different kind of work. You can't go from being a transactional lawyer, for example, to something else. So for someone who's in a company that doesn't offer that kind of opportunity, how would you advise them to grow themselves if they feel a little bit stuck in a place in a company legal department?
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Lola Lin18:18
Yeah, I have a true belief that inertia is actually the most inhibitive to growth. Staying somewhere too long that doesn't fit with your aspirations. I like to be in environments of change. I like to learn new things all the time. So I needed to find a place that would promote that, would support that, would grow me that way, and it had to be open to allow me to do many different things. And you're absolutely right, Larry, that's not the makeup of a lot of law departments or organizations. Some are very siloed. So you really need to pay attention to the environment that you're in and the company you're going to, to make sure that you can get those kinds of opportunities. For me, Air Liquide was a global multinational company, but the fortunate thing was I was in a US affiliate of significant size, so we had the breadth of issues that you would want to tackle, but we had a small enough legal department where they needed all hands on deck and anyone could raise their hand and do what they wanted to do. So it was a great combination.
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Larry19:42
So it sounds like in your case, going to a division or to a subpart of a larger company which might not have been so large actually gave you a platform to grow. Sometimes people worry that they start too small, but in your case it actually was a huge launching pad, it sounds like, for your career.
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Lola Lin20:11
I think if I had started in a larger legal department, I would have had a very different trajectory in my career.
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Larry20:15
So how did you know it was time to make a change? You just took this new job roughly six to eight months ago. You were in your prior role for, I think, five or six years as general counsel, right? So how do you think about that issue in terms of what have I accomplished, have I been here long enough, do I need more challenges? How do you think about that set of issues?
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Lola Lin20:39
So I do think the moment you really start to think, 'Should I move or should I change?'—a lot of people come to me, Larry, and ask that question, like, 'I've been thinking about it for a while, I need to go, I think I need to grow.' I always tell them, I think you're a little bit too late already. I think you should be checking every day: am I growing at the level in which I want to grow? For me, it has to be exponential. Every day I have to be doing something new to me, interesting to me, exciting to me, or it's not a good day for me. But once you gauge that every day, you should check to see if the job is actually meeting your expectations. Because I also believe, Larry, on the flip side, that's why I can be so invested in my job, that's why I can do my best, is because I'm always gauging if there's a symbiotic relationship there where I'm getting everything I need and I can give everything I can. So I think more people should check every day to see if they're in the place that they need to be. If you're not learning something new every day, or you're not growing in the expertise that you're pursuing, it's time to think about changing at that point.
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Larry22:17
Wow. So if you combine a kind of drive for exponential growth, as you say, with someone who might be a really fast learner, that could be a recipe for a lot of change in one's life.
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Lola Lin22:31
Yes, indeed. So that's where I've been.
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Larry22:37
So obviously, when managing one's career through all of these potential opportunities, in addition to the professional aspect of it, there's also the family aspect of it in terms of how to reflect those considerations, how to include your family in that process, how to take their input into account.
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Lola Lin23:11
It really is, especially at the general counsel levels. If you can find your dream job in your dream city close to your family and friends, that's ideal. But I know that both for myself and for many others, it's difficult to find that intersection of everything. So I really encourage people to start very early talking about building an infrastructure in their family that matches their ambitions. In my family, even since I met my husband 30 years ago, he's known that if it doesn't hurt the ones I love, I'm going to go for it. So he's always been supportive. We'd find a way to make it work because he knows it's so important to me. The same with my son, who's 14 now. I've relocated him two or three times as well in his short life, and he knows that mom is going to try to go for the new next experience or opportunity for our family. But I've talked to him a lot about what it brings us, and that's the makeup of our dynamic, and he's really supportive of me.
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Larry24:36
Now, are there times or can you envision times in the future where family considerations might cause you to pause or not pursue something, or even to turn something down because it may not be the right thing or the right place or the right time? We have elderly parents that we love dearly, and there might be a time in the future when we need to be closer to them.
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Lola Lin25:11
Absolutely. My husband and I have talked about that with my son and the rest of the extended family, and it's worked out so far, but I can envision a time where we might have to make some different choices based on that.
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Larry25:20
Well, maybe you can always say to somebody in your family that at least taking this next job isn't the same thing as going off and covering a foreign war. That's right, it's a lot safer than that, so don't complain. You're lucky.
So let's talk about your new role and the fact that one of the jobs as a general counsel is to go into a company, assess the legal organization, assess the needs of the company, and then make the right changes to take the company forward. So how do you go about doing that and have the confidence to actually make the call and then execute? How do you do that and how did you learn to do that?
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Lola Lin26:17
I had some very good examples of how to do that. I worked for a wonderful general counsel for a decade, and one of the things that I admired the most was that he actually ran his department as a true meritocracy. He really assessed our progress by the work that we did on an everyday basis. Being part of that system that he created really informed how I want my team to feel when they're part of my organization. So when I go into a new organization, I actually do what's called a 'heart hire.' I don't really hire on resume content. I'm fortunate that by the time a resume gets to me, it usually has been vetted by my team and it's somebody that's incredibly talented. So I keep the evaluation quite simple. I'm really looking for someone who has the heart, the energy, the drive to be successful in my department, and someone who is okay with change and who's able to absorb new things and is actually excited about that. So it ends up for me being a pretty talent-focused approach. I don't want to minimize how important it is to have the right skills, but by the time they get to me, they have the skills. So it's really the other intangibles that are going to make the difference.
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Larry28:15
Exactly. So when you think back on personnel decisions or organizational decisions you've made along the way, have you made mistakes?
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Lola Lin28:24
Oh, absolutely.
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Larry28:26
So without naming names or compromising anything, what's the kind of mistake that you might have made in the past that you think you've learned from as you have to keep doing this in your role as the GC of a new company?
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Lola Lin28:38
Well, actually, one of the things that I'm trying to implement consciously today is this feeling of calm. Because we've talked about it, I think progress is always around change. We've had several months together where we've only been talking about change and reflection and a different mindset. I probably need to stop and pause right now and let it organically sink in, let people absorb that, create a sense of calmness and security for them. And it's counter to my normal way, so I'm very conscious of trying to do that right now.
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Larry29:39
Well, it's probably not a surprise that not everyone will be as hungry for change as others might be, and the tolerance for change and turbulence may be unequal across people as well. And some people might, in your case I think it's pretty clear that you crave exponential growth, and there may be others who are more comfortable with a more steady state. So how do you manage that as a leader?
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Lola Lin30:10
It is a very difficult job. It is. We're all inclined to sort of manage the way that we think we would like to be managed. And I think what I've learned over the years is to really sit down and tailor a success plan for each employee specifically. What has motivated me and what has encouraged me is not necessarily what others are looking for, and they can do wonderfully well as long as we create a plan and a structure that engages them in the way that they feel most comfortable.
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Larry30:46
I know it's still new in your new role, but you can answer this based on either this job or prior roles you've had. What do you really love about your job, and what are the parts that you really would rather not be doing but you have to do?
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Lola Lin31:12
I love the complexity of the issues that come across my desk. There are always commercial issues, who has the leverage, who has emotion around an issue. There's a lot of aspects that come into play on the things that we deal with: pressure, consequence. There's always a lot at stake, so I think that's what's really interesting about the job. Issues that come on my desk that are complex, hard to solve, emotional—I find those to be the most invigorating and challenging. And since those arrive pretty frequently, that keeps me engaged in the job. The part that I don't like to do is budgeting. I find that process maddening. It's very important to do it right because you are after all part of the P&L structure of the company, but I found that the least enjoyable. Other people thrive on that stuff; I hated it.
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Larry32:23
No, that's a good example. I blocked that one out, that's how much I don't like to do budgeting. I do think it's a challenge to use the budgeting process to refine the team in terms of what their expectations are and what their needs are to a practical level, but you're right, when the budgeting takes on a life of its own in some organizations where it's cutting for cutting's sake, that's not a comfortable place. So that's something I don't like.
Institutions are nothing but the people in them, and they have very different perspectives and very different priorities. So balancing all of that is always very hard, but politics also comes into it as does personality conflict. So what about that part of the job which has nothing to do with law or logic but everything to do with getting to good answers?
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Lola Lin33:28
I think politics gets a connotation around the word that is not the one I use. It absolutely is present in corporate America, this notion of politics that everyone refers to. But when I'm actually in an organization, I'm really trying to spend time understanding the perspective of each one of those people who are at the table that have a disagreement and developing relationships with people to smooth that over. So although I don't like the term politics, all the things that come behind it are a reality in our job, and I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to make sure that those bumps in the work that we do are smoothed out as best as possible.
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Larry34:31
Well, you know, they're also unavoidable. Every one of your colleagues faces the same set of issues, so you're in a way all in it together. It just comes with the territory.
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Lola Lin34:40
It does, but you have to find a way—you really do have to find a way, your own authentic way—to actively address those things. I think where a career could go sideways or you may not be as successful as you want to be is if you ignore those things.
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Larry35:10
Let's turn to my 'Yes or No' round, which I mentioned to you. I'm going to read you three assertions and have you answer yes or no, or agree or disagree if you can, and we'll talk about some of the grays and nuances around those. Here's number one: GCs spend very little time actually doing legal work. So if you love the law, if you're a lawyer's lawyer, this is not the role for you. Yes or no?
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Lola Lin35:37
I think unqualified yes, because a lot of great lawyers become GCs, you are one of them, people who love the law. But if you don't realize—you know, recently I heard this expressed just perfectly: being a GC is a different sport, a different sport than the one you've been playing.
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Larry35:55
So tell me, what's your analogy? What's the sport that you would say it is?
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Lola Lin36:10
I think it's more like being a decathlete. You have to be good at many things, not just one.
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Larry36:11
Number two: being GC is inherently a lonely and solitary endeavor. Yes, very much so.
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Lola Lin36:16
Well, this is no fun. You're supposed to disagree with me.
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Larry36:18
Really? Yeah, I mean, so you agree?
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Lola Lin36:22
I actually agree with that as well. I think at the end of the day, a lot of things just roll to you and you're kind of sitting there having to deal with them. Yes, you have colleagues, you have other C-suite executives, you have a team around you that supports you and enables you, but the buck does stop. And quite often in a company, the legal job is actually in some respects unique compared to even the other C-suite jobs. I agree with that. You have full accountability and responsibility for a certain subset of matters, and most of the time they count on you to make the determinations that are not necessarily things you can share and do with others in this job.
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Larry37:14
So in those moments when you're faced with a tough issue and you can't really turn to others in the company, who do you turn to? Where do you go for support, for advice, for a sounding board? What do you do other than just sit in a room and think it through yourself?
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Lola Lin37:31
So I'm very fortunate. Over the years, I've developed a great network of fellow friends, fellow GCs, just good friends that aren't in the legal field. It depends what the issue is, but there is always somebody there to be a great sounding board. I know, Larry, I could call you if I got into a pinch and I needed some advice. So that is the importance of a network. Sometimes you just need someone to tell you you're playing it wrong or you're thinking about it the wrong way and you need to go back to the drawing board. Lots of times, that's all I need is just somebody to shake up my train of thought and say, 'Get back at it and think about it again.' They don't necessarily give me the answer.
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Larry38:25
Does your spouse ever play that role for you?
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Lola Lin38:28
Oh, absolutely. I have to say that I always said that he was the best training I ever had to be an in-house lawyer. I'm married to a sales executive, so you can imagine. Ever since the beginning of our time together, I've heard about how lawyers are inhibiting what they're trying to do, they're deal killers, and a lot of other bad things about lawyers. So I worked really, really hard to try to be a business partner and to help them get things done.
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Larry39:11
That leads me to my third question, which I'm going to change and call an audible. So here it is. Based on what you just said: business executives are risk takers, lawyers are risk avoiders. These roles are fundamentally in opposition. Yes or no?
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Lola Lin39:29
Yes.
But I think the maturity that you gain over time is what enables you to move that needle. What I was really excited to see, Larry, in my last evaluation, is that they've identified me over all these years as a risk taker. And I know that I have moved that needle. What I tell my teams is that lawyers are actually in the best place to be risk takers. We actually have the most information to know what the risk is. So we should be the ones to advocate for it and take it because we're best suited to know if it's real and if we can accommodate it. So when you're in a business setting and you're talking about a tough issue with your business colleagues and everyone's identifying pros and cons, including risks, including legal risks, and that discussion is full sum and everything is aired, and now they go around the table and ask people, 'What would you do? What decision would you make to go forward or not go forward?' Are you comfortable expressing a view on that—a business conclusion, not a legal conclusion, but a business conclusion?
I am. I think it's really important. Like I said, I do the legal factoring before I even enter the room. When I enter the room, I'm a business leader and no longer a legal person. So I do express my view. It's taken a long, long way on that. I've worked very hard on that.
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Larry41:16
So I'll leave you with one parting question, which is: if you had three weeks of uninterrupted time where nobody would bother you, nobody would call you, the phone would go dead, what would you do with that time?
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Lola Lin41:31
I would just start going to all the places in the world that I want to see. There are a couple of places that are really off the beaten path that would take me some time to get to.
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Larry41:42
So what are the top two on that list?
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Lola Lin41:45
Top two. One is Neom. I'm fascinated by Neom, this city that Saudi Arabia is building in the middle of the desert that's a smart city. I would love to see that. And the other is Antarctica.
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Larry42:10
Neither one is a war zone.
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Lola Lin42:12
No, they're not. I gave that dream up a long time ago, Larry.
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Larry42:17
Okay, thank you very much. Well, Lola, thank you so much. This was great fun, and thank you for your time.
L
Lola Lin42:20
No, thank you for leading us in this, Larry. Look forward to seeing you more.
L
Larry42:25
All right, take care. Bye.