Executive Vice President & Chief Commercial Officer of GE Aerospace, General Electric Co
Aviation StraightTalk Live with GE Aviation President and CEO, John Slattery
How can we build back better European aviation after COVID-19 – and what
will our industry look like in five years?
The environment, changing markets, new consumer behaviours and
expectations, all will be explored in a series of live 1-2-1 interviews
with industry leaders.
Andrew Charlton, journalist and Aviation Advocacy MD, will be asking the
tough questions, and all sessions will include a short market update by
Eamonn Brennan, EUROCONTROL DG.
About John Slattery
John Slattery, then President and CEO of GE Aviation, participated in a June 2021 Aviation StraightTalk Live interview where he discussed the company's RISE (Revolutionary Innovation for Sustainable Engines) program, a CFM International initiative. Slattery stated the program would examine over 300 technologies to develop an engine entering service in the mid-2030s, targeting a 20% fuel burn reduction, which he said would be the largest single jump in fuel burn reduction GE Aviation had undertaken. He described the engine as a hybrid electric open-fan design capable of burning up to 100% sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) or hydrogen, noting that SAF could reduce CO2 by 80% and green hydrogen by 100%. Slattery added that policymakers and governments would need to collaborate to make hydrogen and SAF viable. In the same interview, Slattery noted that GE Aviation's backlog was over a quarter of a trillion dollars, largely driven by its services business. He said the company had taken "serious and very painful actions" to reduce its workforce during the pandemic while remaining prepared for a recovery. Slattery welcomed competition from Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney, stating that competition would benefit customers and the planet. He described the industry as being at "a point of inflection" and said it needed to "win the right to continue to grow" by reducing CO2 emissions. In April 2024, GE Aerospace Chairman and CEO Larry Culp discussed the company's transformation, including debt reduction and operational improvements, but Slattery was not a participant in that appearance.
Transcript (83 segments)
H
Host0:10
Conversation we're having today to be as interesting as I'm sure I will find it, because it's an area I don't know dreadfully well, which is to say the area of engine manufacturing rather than some of the more usual parts of aviation. Well, perfectly usual, but some of the more examined parts of the aviation industry. And today we're talking to Mr. John Slattery, who is the CEO at GE Engines, and of course GE is in turn a joint venture partner with Safran in CFM. Something like 70% of the world's engines are powered by GE, and so it should be an absolutely fascinating conversation. But as ever on Straight Talk, before we talk to John, I'm going to ask Mr. Raymond Brennan, the Director General of Eurocontrol, if he'd...
Andrew Will and Chaim will have an exciting interview over the next half an hour or so. I hope you enjoy it. What's really interesting about today is when you look at every aircraft, you see two, sometimes four, sometimes six, sometimes eight very important things called engines. And here we're looking at the future of propulsion, and I'm sure that John and Andrew will go through this in detail, but we haven't focused on this before in Straight Talk. And I'm really interested to see the feedback from John and how this works out today. So before we actually start that, let's just have a look at how things have started to move as we start going towards the summer. So first of all, it's important to look at the last two weeks. The trend generally has been up...
About the airlines doing well. Let's have a look at the largest European airlines. Ryanair has resumed its position as the largest airline, putting a large number of flights on. They operated 1,359 flights, which is basically 53% of their scheduled before. This is followed by Turkish. Interestingly, you now see the other low-cost carriers coming in, and of course Wizz is coming in, and a quite good resumption by Air France and a much more conservative policy by Lufthansa. Generally, the airlines have also started to bring aircraft back into service. If you look at the start of the pandemic, you can see, for instance, at one stage there were 7,000...
Okay, first of all, last week we had about 55% of our 2019 schedule, and our anticipation is that by the end of July we will be up to about 70% of our 2019 schedule in Europe. And this is good. We continue to be pessimistic about long-haul to Asia, which we see again as November realistically. The North Atlantic towards the end of July or August, and we're very pleased to see that things are starting to move generally and in a positive direction in Europe. The whole situation internationally is also interesting to look at domestically and here in Europe. I'm talking about travel...
To approach pre-pandemic levels, the same in China and to an extent in the Middle East. But you can see the big constant factor is the uncertainty about long-haul travel. And we're even looking at long-haul travel to Australia being quarter one of next year. The big issue for this summer is with the resumption of traffic, what happens at the airports and how do passengers cope? We've got social distancing still with us, and this is a really significant problem. When you look at the effect of social distancing, it means that you need an additional 50% space at check-in, security, at boarding gates. So basically you need to go to the airport about 90 minutes ahead of when you would normally have gone to the airport.
We were disappointed over the last number of weeks with the UK-Portugal situation, but hopefully we will see more states in Europe going on to the green list each week as it's been published. More reliability and acceptance of the COVID-19 vaccine certificate throughout Europe. This is really key to our recovery in Europe. But remember, there's also exciting things other than COVID on the horizon. Commercial supersonic transportation is back. We saw the announcement by United Airlines on what they called the Boom Overture, firm looking at options for a supersonic jet operating on 100% sustainable aviation fuels to be operational in 2029.
Sometimes in aviation we only look at the aircraft, but powering each aircraft are engines, and this is a significant part of the purchase order of any airline. And that's why it's important to look at it and how it goes for the future. And today with John and Andrew, we're going to look at how we're actually moving on in this way. Remember that the big discussion for engines at the moment is reducing emissions. Sustainable aviation fuels can reduce carbon by 80%, but we also have hydrogen aircraft, we also have electrification, we have hybrid wings, various designs all designed to make aviation much more sustainable in the years ahead. And I believe that we can do so. The work that has been done by...
35 minutes with Andrew and with John. I hope that they get to the bottom of some of these real tricky issues. This is the final Straight Talk this season, and I look forward to welcoming you all back in the last quarter of this year when we will unveil a whole new range of speakers to keep you up to date with European aviation and continue to support aviation from Eurocontrol. So enjoy.
A
Andrew7:39
So John, we've just heard from Ayman about your exciting news about CFM, CFM's RISE technology. Tell us more about that. What's behind that?
J
John Slattery7:48
Well Andrew, we at GE Aviation have just finished our renewal of our carbon emission goal by 2050 to halve carbon emissions. And to do that, we need to now step up again and invent the future of flight, working with our airframer partners. So that's the noble cause, that's the mission that we want to rally around here at GE Aviation. So with the launch of the RISE program that we announced last week in Paris, of course the home of the climate accord, we announced RISE, which stands for Revolutionary Innovation for Sustainable Engines. It's a development program that we will look at over 300 different technologies that we will develop, eventually that'll manifest into an engine that will enter into service sometime in the mid-2030s. But a lot of those technologies, Andrew, that we will be developing...
Stepping up to reduce the fuel burn. The fuel burn target by the way is 20%. It is the biggest single target jump in fuel burn reduction that we've ever undertaken at GE Aviation, and of course with Safran because this is the RISE program, a CFM International initiative. But you know Andrew, what people get confused about is the difference between scope CO2 emissions and the fuel burn. If we can change the kind of fuel, maybe we'll talk about it here, if we can change the type of fuel that goes into the engine, we can reduce those emissions a lot more than the initial 20% we're talking about. So the 20% is just the technological advance if you like.
A
Andrew10:11
But is there an endpoint? I mean, leave aside the fuel for a moment. Eventually we can't find any more, can we? I mean it must be like athletics records, it must take some time to travel the distance.
J
John Slattery10:27
Yeah, look, it's a great point. But let's just frame up what the 20% means first in terms of the fuel burn. Whatever fuel you put onto the aircraft, if you were to apply that onto our narrowbody fleet today, that would be the equivalent, Andrew, of taking 17 million cars off the road. But with the RISE program, we're going to have an engine, it'll be a hybrid electric engine, open fan, but it will have the capability to burn...
The CO2 by 80%, and the real nirvana of course is burning hydrogen. If you got to burning green hydrogen, you'd be reducing your CO2 emissions by 100%.
A
Andrew11:25
And then I read the other day that your emission there is water, which you could then recycle inside the airplane.
J
John Slattery11:31
That's correct. Yeah, because apparently water at high altitudes isn't real good anyway, but if we can recycle it back inside the airplane, then that is nirvana, isn't it? That's almost perpetual motion.
A
Andrew11:42
Almost perpetual motion.
J
John Slattery11:45
And look, a lot of work to go from here to industrializing a hydrogen burning engine. But the actual physics, the science from the engine's perspective of burning...
In our turbulence, but we've got a lot of work to do there, Andrew. We're going to need policy makers and governments to come together. The whole ecosystem needs to come together for hydrogen to make it viable, but also for sustainable aviation fuels. That's clearly the first step to meaningfully reduce our carbon emission.
A
Andrew12:31
I'm interested that you've twice now mentioned that if we work hard enough and if we're good, this engine will... The RISE engine, boys up in acronyms must have had a great time getting RISE to work too by the way. We will get it to burning 100% SAFs. I had been under the impression that given that SAF is simply a drop-in, that that was always part of the game. But is there...
J
John Slattery13:10
But even our widebody engines, the NX and the 9X, they're all certified to operate with a blend of up to 50% SAF today. And Andrew, that's with no hardware modification whatsoever on the engine. Right now we're working with regulators around the world to define what the standard is, the definition and the standard of what defines 100% SAF. When we get to agreeing that standard, there will be some small hardware modifications required on the engine, but actually nothing meaningful. Some work with the tubes and the ducts.
A
Andrew14:10
It's something like 0.1 percent.
J
John Slattery14:13
I think it's less than that, but yeah. And if Carsten Spohr or Ben Smith were to fly SAF on Lufthansa or the Air France-KLM fleet, they would burn the world's SAF in one day. So the challenge on us is to create a stable demand so that industry can rally around and create the availability of SAF, so that airlines can then get it at a more economical price and can get it at the airports in a user-friendly fashion.
A
Andrew14:47
You don't think that demand's already there?
J
John Slattery14:51
The demand... I mean, it could be a debate around the carrot...
Business, that's what they're hearing from their passengers. So the hurdle that they have to get over is number one, the economics of SAF. It's expensive today because the supply is limited. But the demand is there. Now we do need an ecosystem to make it more user-friendly, to get SAF to the airports, to actually generate SAF, to distill and refine SAF. We feel comfortable that it is all doable. Certainly the refining part of it is very doable frankly with the current footprint of refineries that are out there today. Refining oil can very easily move over to SAF. But Andrew, what...
But the regulators, the policy makers, they may need to play a role here. As they look around, encouraging incentives to help people generate SAF. And SAF can come from a multitude of sources including synthetic SAFs. And if we bring up the supply, the price will come down. That supply-demand equation will help bring the price down. But regulators are also looking at potentially regulating the percentage of SAF that would need to be used on board an aircraft. So that's the stick if you like. I think people want to do it anyway. It's the right thing to do. And I believe, Andrew, in the years ahead, this is all going to come together. I think everybody right across the...
A
Andrew17:11
It's sort of a funny role for an engine maker to be concerned about the fuel that propels the engines, isn't it? I mean, in the history of GE, were you ever interested in being so well informed about, I don't know, drilling for oil and distillation and all those sorts of things? Is this just part of the new world that we're living in?
J
John Slattery17:32
There's no doubt we're in a new world. And I think COVID has accelerated everything, right across the board. We will do our part, and we're stepping up with our partners at Safran as I mentioned earlier to go for the biggest single movement in commitment of CO2 reduction, of fuel burn reduction of at least 20%.
And the thermal efficiencies right in the middle of the engine. But it is true, Andrew, right now to get to that nirvana of carbon-free emission, zero carbon-free flight, we're going to need to have improved fuels. We're going to need to have sustainable aviation fuels in a volume that will make sense for the operators around the world. And then we need to stay on that path to get to ultimately find a way to burn green hydrogen. That's where we've got to go. Because look, Andrew, the traveling public, you're seeing it in northern Europe and southern Europe, central Europe today. Increasingly that narrative is here in North America. We're seeing it in Southeast Asia. The travelers of the future...
They're not hurting the planet. We want to play our role in that. So this is a point of inflection for our industry, we believe, and we want to play our role in inventing the future of flight.
A
Andrew19:20
Right. The... You see SAFs, you said earlier, I think you see SAFs as sort of the staging posts, but getting to hydrogen is the end game. Is there a role for electric motors and things like that as well?
J
John Slattery19:37
Yeah. Just go back to the first half of that. We certainly see SAF playing a meaningful role in the '30s and indeed into the '40s. It's kind of like the parallel is, you know, at GE we're coming out of the coal business, we're in the clean gas business as a transfer fuel right now until ultimately...
About SAF and hydrogen. We have to have a path to get to hydrogen. I think SAF will prove the bridge. That bridge may last for 15 or 20 years, but the engine will be enabled to burn hydrogen. And to your point, Andrew, it will be a hybrid electric engine. So we will have a full hybrid electric capability on the engine that will mature from the RISE technology development program.
A
Andrew20:46
Right, right. Well, just as well really, given that you've got electric in your name. It'd be heartbreaking if there wasn't something electric about it. Before we move on, and there's lots still...
J
John Slattery21:11
That's right. And the manufacturing industry is incredibly competitive and incredibly aggressive if you like. But yet over on the engine side of the house, you've got a joint venture with one of your competitors. What difference do you see between engine manufacturer on the one hand and the airframe manufacturer on the other?
A
Andrew21:35
So you know, at Embraer and generally on the airframe side, the focus is on building the best new aircraft you can and delivering them to the customers. Of course we share that philosophy here at the new installed technology side on the engines...
J
John Slattery22:10
Our customers in many instances for decades to come. So it's not just about delivering that new engine with the new aircraft on day one. Our business is very much tied to servicing and supporting the airlines as those engines come up for shop visits and doing those turnaround times very quickly, supporting our open architecture, our open source platforms that we have around the world. We have many, many MROs around the world that independently support the overhaul of the GE engines and of course the CFM. But that's the single biggest difference between my experience, almost 10 years as an airframer, and now on the engine side. Do you find on the engine side you spend...
New technologies, you then think about your customers as the airframers. Those are truly our partners as we together invent the future of flight. So constant engagement to ensure that the collective of the airframe and the engine integration generates the best possible operating economics and operating performance for the airlines. As you go through the cadence of entering into service a new aircraft with the new engine combination, then you're focused on engaging with the airlines, and that becomes a major focus. But in reality, in my seat, I probably spent a third of my time, maybe even...
Of course that are a lot headquartered in Europe and in my beloved Ireland play a key part of our ecosystem as well. So I spend a lot of time engaging and listening to our customers. So we're listening to our MRO partners around the world, we're listening to the lessors who are providing the liquidity, the aerospace banks who are providing the liquidity. But ultimately it's the operator and indeed the passenger increasingly. We like to hear what the passengers are thinking about when we think about the RISE technology program and the innovations where we want to push the boundaries to really go after that nirvana of zero emissions. That drive, that commitment is coming actually from...
Sustainable aviation fuels and as you think about hydrogen, we're even broadening the aperture of those counterparts that we're talking to, that we're engaging with, that we're listening to, trying to ensure that we're part of the narrative and that we're there ultimately to serve our airframer partners and of course our airline customers right around the world.
A
Andrew25:33
Right. You mentioned Ireland. Is there something in Guinness that makes the Irish the world's leading aviation staff providing shop? What's the...
J
John Slattery25:46
Well, I think that question could be just as well posed to the Director General. Well indeed, he's but one of the many Irish folk I have interviewed in Straight Talk, or his right hand solo who we had the...
We had, if you go back to the '70s, of course Dr. Tony Ryan, who came out of Aer Lingus, a lot of people don't know that indeed. And he started trying to place some ex-747s and spawned what has become an amazing ecosystem. I think the Irish-headquartered leasing companies own a massive percentage of the world's fleet today. Our headquarters there, but also Ryanair, Aer Lingus. But in the earlier days, the Aer Lingus management team had a philosophy of going out and supporting other management teams in the Middle East and in Africa, and that just kind of got us out there. So we're...
The best possible way. I'm super proud. We were talking before we came on here about Alan Joyce all the way down in Sydney, Australia. And I'm super proud of all of the airlines that have some lineage back to Ireland. And it goes way beyond just of course Ryanair and Aer Lingus. But I'm hard to be proud of the broader ecosystem.
A
Andrew27:35
Were you part of Aer Lingus if you don't mind me asking?
J
John Slattery27:38
No, I wasn't. Unfortunately not. It's the only part of the ecosystem I haven't actually participated in yet. So I've been an aircraft lessor, an aerospace banker, an airframe manufacturer, an engine manufacturer. But I can tell you, Andrew, I have real...
Customers and listen to the challenges that they have to deal with. But that's the only part of the ecosystem that I really haven't spent time working. And I did spend a lot of time with Varig Airlines down in Brazil right at the start of my aviation career in the mid-'90s, working very closely with Fernando Pinto, who was the CEO back then. Learned a lot. In fact, one of my very first deals was working with Varig as they were negotiating their engine maintenance cost agreement with GE Aviation. So it's a circular world in so many ways.
A
Andrew28:49
It will indeed. Indeed. It also proof of course that you don't have to work in an airline to work in aviation. And a lesson that I think a number of...
J
John Slattery29:10
Yeah, I mean, it had a massive impact on our orders of course. It was exaggerated by the unfortunate grounding of the MAX incident, or the MAX grounding because of the two terrible incidents. But that coupled with COVID and the pandemic had a very meaningful impact on our orders. On the upside, Andrew, when you look at the momentum that we've achieved in the last number of months, the MAX deal at Southwest, the MAX deal at Alaska, the A320neo deal, the largest single deal we've ever done at GE Aviation...
That last week, 10 days ago, I talked to Boeing obviously on a regular basis. They can feel the momentum coming back. And the one thing that I'm spending a lot of my time on today is preparing for that ramp. I can tell you it is almost a daily conversation that I have with my chairman, Larry Culp, to ensure that our organization is ready to serve our two customers. You asked about the customers earlier. So two constituent customers we need to serve. Of course, as the surge of activity really starts to manifest here in the second half of this year and into next year, those shop visits we need to be ready to address those as they're happening. And then of course, as the ramp up of new...
Out a serious percentage of our workforce. But Andrew, we did that when we were going through those decisions, very mindful of the need to be ready for the inevitable surge when it materializes. And as I travel around the US, we see the capacity that's now back in the United States. You see the capacity that's back in the Chinese market, almost at pre-COVID levels. The United States is approaching the high 80s relative to pre-COVID levels. Europe of course is still 50% down, but Andrew, you'll know firsthand that's a massive improvement just in the last four to six weeks. So it's coming. People want to travel. And as Ed Bastian...
It's coming. We need to make sure that we're ready to support our partners. But at the moment, what we seem to have is regional Europe, regional US, regional Australia, although they managed to keep shutting it down from time to time for the heck of it. What we're not seeing is the long-haul stuff.
A
Andrew32:34
Yeah, it did. And the US back to 80%, Europe back to 50%, all great news. But the other thing that's mixed with that is the fact that we seem to have seen a lot of the airlines slim down their fleets, both in terms of the numbers of aircraft but also the size of the aircraft. Do you think that trend will continue? What do you think if suddenly we will resuscitate our A380s and all those...
J
John Slattery33:11
The narrowbody activity we see. Narrowbody activity, the 737s, the A320s, getting back to pre-COVID levels sometime early in 2023. Wow. And the widebody activity will probably pragmatically lag about 12 months. And you know, Andrew, I really want to commend Willie Walsh, another great Irishman of course indeed. I really want to commend Willie's leadership over at IATA in driving the initiatives that we have to get the digital passports for COVID and vaccines. People can move through airports, they won't have to quarantine, they won't have that concern as we...
A little bit longer than our bodies returning. I mean, I really think that our body activity will be in a very strong place towards the back end of '22, but we're estimating early in '23 it'll be back to pre-COVID levels, and maybe 12 months later for the widebody activity. In terms of the second half of your question, which is the 380s and that size aircraft, well look, I think it's too early to tell. Andrew, business models... One of the great things about our business is the models evolve. I mean, if you go back 20 years, 25 years ago, the Ryanairs and Southwests were kind of an anomaly, and then the legacy carrier model. And today of course we have successful LCCs right around the...
Andrew, you know, it's not the smartest or the fittest or the strongest that survive. When he visited the Galapagos, it's those that evolve best to the changing environment. So I'm full of confidence that the airline leaders around the world and their boards of directors are trying to figure out what those future models will be. Whatever those models will be, I want to make sure that GE Aviation continues to be there to support them. Today we support about 70% of the world's fleet. I want to make sure that we're there to continue to support the airlines whatever way, whatever size aircraft they elect to fly in the future. So part of what I think we're watching, although I agree it's early days...
A
Andrew36:10
That's good news for engine manufacturers, isn't it?
J
John Slattery36:13
Yeah, I mean it is. It is changing, it is evolving. The MAX 10, the A321 are both being used in lieu of smaller widebody aircraft. But again, our position here is just to make sure we're here to serve the airframer partners, we're here to serve the airline partners. It's really up to those constituents to decide what the business model is and how they're ultimately going to serve their customers. Once they figure that out, our job is to make sure that they have the most efficient lift.
Where we can continue now to grow that net franchise footprint that we have. I want to see new operators coming in. I want that competitive dynamic to continue to grow because, you know Andrew, in my experience there has been no singularly more powerful force for bringing people together, bringing communities together, joining ideas, and generating commerce that benefits everyone than the airline industry. I saw it firsthand in my beloved Brazil when I was down there. And shout out to David Neeleman with the launch of Azul, now run by John Rodgerson down there. But a lot of the folks that are flying on the...
On buses and now they're taking a two-hour flight at the same cost or maybe even cheaper. So I've seen firsthand, you've seen it in China, not only just opening up the eastern seaboard but opening up northern and western China. Of course we've all seen it firsthand in Europe and the benefits of bringing communities together. So it's important. And that's why, Andrew, at the start of our conversation we spoke about RISE, we spoke about technology driving the lower CO2 emissions. That's critically important. We're at an inflection point in our industry. We need to win the right to continue to grow. And that's going to be rooted, in my humble opinion, in our commitment to drive down CO2 emissions. I couldn't...
A
Andrew39:10
Beats would it to go and talk to regulators or is that not true?
J
John Slattery39:14
No, it would have been certainly at Embraer as we were certifying new aircraft. I was there for the writing of the business case for the E2. So I brought that through the process of the business case right through to certification and entry into service. So we're fully engaged. And we entered that into service with the Brazilian authority and of course the FAA and EASA, all three authorities on one day. And as we're entering the aircraft into new jurisdictions around the world, whether it's getting certification with CAAC in China or other authorities, so fully engaged with the regulators. And...
Leasing and the airspace banking side, but certainly as an airframer and definitely now as an engine manufacturer, very close with the FAA and supportive of course of Boeing in their engagements, but also our own bilateral engagements with the FAA and EASA. But the FAA and EASA is if you like on the safety side, the certification side, whereas certainly in Europe the SAF thing is being run through the European Commission itself. Not that EASA isn't, but you know what I mean. And it's very much a political game as to the mandate and how quickly and what sort of numbers.
A
Andrew40:49
You're less familiar with the halls of the Department of Transport as you are with the FAA, I guess is the point I'm trying to make.
J
John Slattery41:10
Our commitment to sustainable aviation fuels of course. Andrew, we have a big footprint in Europe as well. Avio Aero, our additive business, so we have many, many thousands of engineers right across Europe, not only in Italy but right across Europe. So we're fully engaged and I speak regularly with members of the Commission as we explain to the Commission our commitment to sustainable aviation fuel and to the clean initiatives that the EU has been certainly a unique global driver of. I also had that same conversation with the regulatory authorities here in the United States as they also are committed to driving a clean...
A
Andrew42:10
As we move to electric motor cars, Tesla came literally out of nowhere. And at one level it seems Tesla had an easier job than the other car manufacturers because all he'd had to do was put wheels on a computer, whereas the other car manufacturers had to put a computer inside their car. Is there another Tesla out there in the engine area do you think? Could I realize that's a stupid question? Do you predict something unpredictable? But we've got to remember, John, coming from Australia, I don't think black swans are unusual at all.
J
John Slattery42:47
There may well be another Tesla out there. I've come from an environment and I'm now at...
A
Andrew43:10
What's the view of Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney around the announcements that you're making today?
J
John Slattery43:20
I went ahead and said look, we welcome competition. And I would encourage Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney to bring their best technologies to the table and let's compete. Because ultimately our customers will be the winners and the planet will be a winner. By the way, a couple of days later Warren East did come out and say that they wanted to compete on that front, and we welcome that competition. Because competition forces us to listen and pay more attention, to be more humble, to be better at our processes of even production and really drive those lean processes that we have across our...
Global resource center at GE. I think it's roughly 750 PhDs all working together trying to figure out the future. And as Thomas Edison once said, he said his job at the founder of GE was to listen to what people want and then go and invent it. So I would encourage folks that have ideas and they want the industrialization capabilities and the innovation DNA that we have at GE to work with them and develop new technologies. So I'm very encouraging of people that have ideas to come and engage with us. If they don't want to come and engage with us and want to compete with us, it'll just force us to get better. So is there another Tesla out there? Is there another new type of engine out...
That the core, those thermal efficiencies that we're driving when it comes to our track record on delivering that and doing it safely. And we think about SQDC here at GE Aviation, right across GE actually under Larry's leadership. That stands for Safety, Quality, Delivery, and Cost. And they're in that order. Safety is number one. So always delivering with safety at the forefront of your mind. Over 37,000 engines on the commercial side, and not dissimilar maybe a little smaller number on the military side. So doing that safely and bringing our passengers home every day, that's our mandate. So we're committed to innovation. We have been for over 100 years. But Andrew, there's no escaping we are at a point of inflection. We really need to push beyond our commitment to reduce...
Of inventing the future of flight.
A
Andrew46:12
Am I right in thinking that open fan engines are quieter as well? Is that something I...
J
John Slattery46:19
Well, they're not going to be... Our open fan with a single stage open fan rotor will not be any louder than the LEAP that we have today. So those decibels in the cabin are not going to be any louder. It's also not going to be any slower than the LEAP engine today. So the customer is going to have a very similar experience except when the customer looks at whatever it will be, Andrew, by the mid-2030s, it won't for sure there'll be no paper tickets. They'll be looking at whatever the equivalent of the iPhone is then and they'll be able to tell what their CO2 emission was for that flight. That's what...
A
Andrew47:10
So what about supersonic? You've talked about faster. Do you think there's anything? There's a lot of talk about supersonic at the moment. Is there any future in that?
J
John Slattery47:21
Look, time will tell. We're flying our engines at Mach 0.8, Mach 0.82, almost at the speed of sound. Obviously you have a choice that's out there for entry into service sometime next decade as well. But our focus right now is that if you want to be good, you want to focus on what's the niche that you're on. Our niche is focusing on...
Whether the supersonics will have a real business case. And at the end of the day, Andrew, for us and for me, when I'm bringing forward an initiative, I have to bring it to the chairman and the board and present the business case, the economics around the long-term return for our shareholders. So I did listen to one of the recent casts that you had when you asked Willie that same question. So he was filled and categorical. But look, time will tell. But our focus right now will be on the RISE program, our focus will be on the successful entry into service of the 9X, our focus is on supporting that re-entry into service of the MAX, our...
A
Andrew49:11
Indeed. And that's a perfect segue to my final question, which I ask all of our guests, which is: what more do you think Eurocontrol can do to help facilitate aviation?
J
John Slattery49:21
You know, it's a great question. I think the first thing I would do here is applaud Eamonn Brennan's leadership at Eurocontrol. I mean, it's at times of crisis that real leaders stand up. And Eamonn has been a stalwart that people have looked to as we've gone through this crisis. Eamonn's embracing his philosophy of transparency and communication, an example of which we're doing right now. Constant communication with these...
Their forecasts of where they're seeing the recovery, because we all need to plan our capital according to how we see the return of the market. And of course Eamonn's ability and Eurocontrol's ability to work closely with the Commission and share with the Commission and encourage the Commission on the journey the Commission is already on, which is on sustainability. So I applaud Eurocontrol. I congratulate my friend Eamonn Brennan again for the amazing work he and his team, and Donal his right hand. And we're lucky to have an organization in Europe as robust as Eurocontrol.
A
Andrew50:55
Well, thanks very much, John. Ladies and...
Say thank you to you again, and I look forward to seeing everyone else again very soon. Thanks very much.