Executive Vice President and Chief Membership & Commercial Services Officer, MARRIOTT VACATIONS WORLDWIDE
Lori Gustafson: Mindfulness Beyond Meditation
Lori Gustafson is a teacher with UW Madison's Health Mindfulness Program and works has a positive behavior coach in schools.
About Lori Gustafson
Lori Gustafson, Executive Vice President and Chief Membership & Commercial Services Officer at Marriott Vacations Worldwide, has spoken about the company’s focus on innovation and digital transformation in the leisure travel sector. In 2022, she discussed the company’s multi-year initiative called “Vacation Next” and the introduction of a new owner program, “About by Marriott Vacations,” designed to appeal to the next generation of travelers. Gustafson described digital as “an enabler, not an end,” and emphasized the importance of maintaining high-touch moments for guests while adopting new technologies. She noted that the company faces challenges from technical debt following acquisitions and that less than 12% of corporate America executives are successfully balancing current performance with transformation. Separately, Gustafson has also spoken about mindfulness and leadership. She described mindfulness as “paying attention to how things are and not trying to change it,” and said that practices such as cleaning, walking, or cooking can serve as mindful activities. In discussions on digital transformation, she stated that people leadership is a critical component, and that transformation involves “new ways of working, new ways of thinking, and ultimately new ways of being.” She also said that the associate experience is as important as the customer experience in transformation efforts.
Transcript (9 segments)
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Host0:12
Hello and welcome to Project Amplify, the podcast where we believe that even the smallest conversations can have the biggest impact. Today's guest is Lori Gustafson. Lori has many different jobs, but I know her as the mindfulness coach at my school. Do you have someone in your life who, after you talk to them, no matter how you were feeling when the conversation started or even what the conversation was about, you always leave just feeling more calm, more centered? That's Lori for me. She has years of experience with mindfulness and has helped me see that all the stereotypes I had about it are wrong. And you're just going to have to trust me when I say that I wasn't an easy person to convince. If you're someone who already sees the positive things about mindfulness, this conversation is for you. If you're someone who hears the word mindfulness and rolls their eyes, this conversation is also for you. I hope hearing Lori talk about how big the definition of mindfulness can be helps you see that you're probably already practicing it and you didn't even know. Here we go.
So can you tell us a little bit about your journey with mindfulness? Because I mean, I teach fifth graders and I know that sometimes kids hear the word mindfulness and they just have a really strong negative reaction. I was one of those kids. But I think through you, I've come to learn that mindfulness has a bigger definition than what I realize. When I've heard mindfulness, I would think meditation and having to sit with your thoughts, and that was really hard for me. So can you tell us a little bit more about what meditation can actually be?
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Lori Gustafson2:03
Yes, sorry, mindfulness can actually be... It's really interesting that you bring that up because that was kind of my idea of it as well. That you had to sit still, that you were supposed to not have a lot of thoughts, you're always supposed to be calm, that kind of thing. And then over the years I learned that it's really paying attention to how things are and not trying to change it, being present for what's happening, and doing it on purpose. So when I am listening to someone and I am really aware that I am listening to that person, maybe even aware that I got distracted, I'm no longer listening to that person, I can catch myself in that moment and then bring my attention back to that person. That's the moment of mindfulness right there. When I'm feeling whatever emotion that might be coming up because I just heard some terrible news or some great news, can I pay attention to what is actually happening in my body and learn from it? It's not about just being calm at all. It's great when I feel calm and I can pay attention, but what happens when I feel agitated, when I feel irritated? Can I pay attention to that? What can I learn from it? And it's all part of it. When I started to develop that bigger understanding of mindfulness, it opened it up to everything that I do. Coming to this definition of mindfulness for myself was over the course of 20 years, and it keeps changing. I used to think I had to do a practice which meant sitting for 30 minutes and just really paying attention with a lot of kindness to what's happening. That's great when I can do that, but sometimes just sitting down for one minute can be enough to calm the nervous system enough so that I can feel what's happening and respond in a different way. I used to have such a narrow view of it, and it's really opened up.
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Host4:29
Somebody... I just was having a conversation with somebody yesterday and they were saying 'man, your house is always so clean.' And I know what a big problem to have, but I realized through working with you that cleaning is part of my mindfulness practice. If I feel myself getting agitated or stressed about something, or when your mind latches on to an idea and you start spiraling in a negative way, I get out my vacuum and I vacuum, and it helps me come right back to the present. Cleaning is definitely not something that would have been in my definition of what mindfulness could be. But when you're thinking about how mindfulness is purposeful awareness of yourself, I think it's really cool to think of how you're already practicing mindfulness but you might not have known that's what it is, and it can come in any form. Being outside walking, rather than having that walk take you away, just really paying attention to what's happening outside, or playing soccer, playing any sport. Swimming is often one that people talk about because just getting in the pool and feeling the water and moving through it. Cooking for some people can really help center them, help calm them down. I think of it as a gentle interruption of maybe that spinning thoughts, the worries, and it takes practice, it's building a muscle.
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Lori Gustafson6:21
And I think what I've always appreciated is that when you come and work with our classes, the focus is more on the feelings in our bodies and giving a name to it. You also talk a little bit about the science behind parts of the brain and why you might blow your top over something. I didn't have those kinds of classes when I was growing up. I wish I had. Because what you're doing is giving kids the vocabulary and an understanding of why their bodies are doing what they're doing, and it makes it less scary. I know that I hated feeling angry. It took me until my 20s to be like, 'oh anger is okay for me to feel' because I didn't know how to handle it and I didn't know why it was happening. I think the more kids get a better understanding of the way our body works, and like we were saying before, it's normal to feel these things, the more power we're giving them to make better decisions based on their feelings. I think it's really important. What you're doing is really important. For me it's been life-changing, and to be able to share it in a way that is meaningful, I'm always trying to find ways in because I also understand that there can be a lot of pushback, resistance. Like 'no, I don't want to do that', and it can be a little scary to start paying attention in that way. I can't make assumptions that people are going to embrace this, understand it, but over time something can happen. My friend Nimo Patel says we're always just planting seeds, and we might not even see what's going to grow from those seeds until much later.
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Host8:25
Well, thanks for doing what you do. The last question I have for you: what do you amplify in your life?
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Lori Gustafson8:33
I'm going to say, I think I've said this word a few times, this whole idea of listening, listening to each other. Because there is such a tendency to have an 'us against them', 'we versus they', and what happens when we take the time to step back and really listen, and then the change that can happen or the action that comes from that? I feel like understanding that we all want to matter, and I have to understand that even with someone who I don't agree with, we all want to matter, we all want to belong. I know you don't think you're an inspiration, but you are. Thank you for doing what you do and for joining us today.
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Host9:18
Well, I was happy to be here. It kind of feels good to be here today, and I always love talking to you too, so thank you so much for inviting me.
Isn't Lori great? She has so much insight into how our bodies work and how so much ties back to our emotions. I hope you see that mindfulness doesn't just have to be sitting still and meditating. For some people that works and good for them, for others mindfulness can look very different and that's fine too. Figuring out what works for you to center yourself isn't something that's going to happen overnight. But if like Lori says, you're purposeful with the practice of noticing your feelings, that's a huge step. So here's this episode's challenge: the next couple of times you feel yourself having a strong emotion, name it. Is it anxiety? Excitement? Trepidation? Look that word up. Fear? Is it easy for you to name what you're feeling? I truly think the more we can name our emotions, the more power we have over them. Mindfulness can really help with that practice. Until next time, stay curious and be kind.