إزاي ماني فيللوز عملت أول جمعية رقمية | بودكاست مغامرة

Initially, even the simplest things to run on digital platforms weren't available to us, like digital payment processing. We didn't have a license to access digital processing; you needed a bank to open an account and give you a Merchant ID from a payment processor. We were operating on a model that wasn't well understood because it had never been successfully implemented before. We were classified as a crowdfunding platform. Of course, an investor would look to invest in a company operating in a margin market without a license, so you're always at risk of losing your investment at any moment. My money had a 70% chance of being lost. You understand what I mean? And what would make someone take that 70% risk? Well, it's incredibly successful in America, a huge success, and companies have achieved great things. You understand? So, honestly, that first investment round was extremely difficult for us, and we were... On the line, meaning honestly, all the time he's an investor who's convinced, signed an agreement, and I've set a KPI for you. I'll give you the first 20% and the other 80% in Project 2, or on the condition that you get a license from the Gillette Region, not M-Sure or ExtEnf, and so on. There might be certain stages where the investor doesn't know how to deal with them. Also, when we choose a sponsor, we don't choose just anyone; it has to be companies we believe in. In this episode, we have two sponsors. The first sponsor is Nawi, the largest proptech company in Africa. In less than seven years, thanks to Nawi's use of technology, they were able to become one of the largest real estate companies in sales. The second sponsor is Employ Our Team. They've helped more than a million people find jobs and are used by more than 550 companies. This episode is sponsored by Nawi Employ Our Team. I hope you like the episode.

I was living in Germany at the time. When the idea for MoneyFellows first came to me, one of the things I learned from previous startups is that you have to find the right market. The big problem is that people understand you and know you, so you have to start somewhere. You can save yourself a lot of time if you choose the right market and timing. So, in England, I got the idea for an online group because I myself was trying to get a monkey. And of course, I'm not German. You understand what I mean. Building your credit core takes years and a lot of things. So, of course, I was borrowing very little from banks, or maybe I should take a very small loan. What other options did I have? I looked everywhere. You understand what I mean? There's nothing like Germany. It's very strict. I've always seen how these savings groups make a difference in the lives of many people around me. They can borrow and save and stuff. I'd never done a savings group before, so I talked to my friends and relatives and told them, 'Hey guys, can you look into this savings group thing for me? I need a certain amount at a certain time.' So, the main thing was to talk to all my friends abroad and look for a savings group in Germany. It took a very long time. The day I found one and started, the experience was very difficult. It was a WhatsApp group, and I was in Germany while they were in Egypt. It was about Boston Union, and they take 30% of the loan as fees. The access wasn't good at all, so it was a very big problem, like this common thing, I mean, in the whole world. Why, when I'm in Germany, can't I do a group with people in India, Egypt, and Africa? You understand, why? Why do I have to do it offline and organize it and all that? So that's where the idea came from. But of course, it was very important to choose the right market and the right timing. In Germany, neither the market nor the timing was right for the culture of this group, so we went to England. Why? Because, for example, at that time, you had a company that came from there. You had Solaris. The group idea is completely different from what we have now. This is one way and that is another way. Understand? For example, we don't have a first floor and a top floor. There's no such thing as a single deposit with one person receiving a salary. You have a company that came up on the third floor. How do you sell it to this German? What do you tell him? Take a two-month deposit and then pay it back after three months. I understand you, Qusay, it won't work. You have a group of other people and social media, you know what I mean. It's double-edged, I mean, maybe, but it'll take you a long time just to explain to this person that there's something called a 'group' and how it works, you know? So why do you understand? And then, when you're developing a tech solution application, the most important thing is that it's convenient, understand? It needs to be understandable, no buttons, understand? So if you try to show him a 10-minute video explaining that there's a concept like this and that the group actually opens that video, if he opens the video, you know what I mean? The more you focus the steps, the smoother and easier the application will be to use. So if someone doesn't even understand what the application is, it'll be very difficult. So we shortened it, honestly. I don't know if it could have worked, I don't know, but we shortened it and said that England is the hub of Europe, all the new, exciting fintech stuff takes Licenses from there, and besides that, there's a Diversity Community, there are Indians, Pakistanis, Egyptians, and Africans. It's the Community that understands what a community is, okay? So simply, you'll tell the Pakistanis 'Committee Online,' you'll tell the Africans 'Scooz Online.' It's clear now, you understand how this word works, an online community, understand? We went there, and it really is Diversity. There are many of these people, and the whole 'Ain' thing isn't that big. These people have Solars N26, they have... I don't know... digital peer-to-peer leaders online. With one button, they can choose color by color. There are so many options. The banks are exploding, the rates are low. You understand? Well, it's a market where people understand you, but is it the real market where people actually need you or not? So, it didn't take us long, of course. We benefited greatly from the exposure and networking we did in this short period. In London, and of course, in the name of God, you were saying at the beginning that you're a bit of a pro when there's a challenge, so let's go, let's go, when will you repeat what you're doing? I'll hold this time and that's it, let me try in a new market. So you know the problem of the association is more and more, meaning when did you feel that it was closed off? I mean, we stayed, for example, six months in England, and you still didn't find enough customer support in the prototype, you didn't find them ready to give you the right advice. You find that the X you do gives you the initial S that shows you that this topic has a need. Of course, this accent is one of the packs we have today offline, just to get a brief overview. Is this direction generally useful or not? And sometimes it's not very clear, meaning it won't show you enough because you don't really know how to do it, but you're trying to... not your pack. You're trying to solve the problem. We were doing access to credit. Do people not have access to credit at all? Do people not know where to save their money? The problem isn't the product, you understand what I mean. We found that the credit isn't huge, yes, partly and partly, you understand what I mean. Some people know and some don't. People take three days, they don't get it in one day, you understand what I mean. So we found the problem isn't that big and it could work if we had a bakery, but this is very important because you want it to come so you can continue. It's like that, you understand. If it stays for years at zero, no one will get it. You start to get your energy, you start to think, you say, right? But, for example, you could have changed, either to a market or a product. For example, a savings group isn't very easy in England. So, let me do, for example, credit scoring, I don't know what, right? What made you stick with the savings group idea? I was, honestly I'm convinced by my research and how common this topic is. I look at its history and see my own experience of starting a group. I've struggled with it and asked people who run groups; they don't realize they struggle. Sometimes, you just get used to it. You know what I mean, but you need to get another session that's more comfortable, better, and more reliable. That's when you start building your market. But before that, you try to see if this even exists. In England, I was trying. This exists in other countries, in other markets. I wasn't relying solely on it. I was trying to see where the problem lies. Because someone who starts a group offline goes and talks to people, and then there are those who are late, and the organizer keeps running after other people. What is this huge problem? Doesn't it have privacy? You know what I mean? Why isn't it in Digital? You know what I mean. This question was a huge question for me, and a very important one for me. Why would anyone have to do all this? When I did some research, I found that people aren't happy with the idea of an offline savings group, but it's the only option for them. You know, they don't have the option to participate in the savings group. This problem stems from another, bigger issue: the lack of access to financial services. Consequently, people are doing the savings group in a very difficult, unreliable, and complicated way. I was determined that this was a real problem, and I would solve it online. So, when we decided to test it in Egypt, we went to Rona Events, specifically Raz Up. We went to Raz Up, like the first one, or maybe the second one, and created a product. We were shocked by what we found. It's a product that tells people about an online savings group, and they understand immediately; you don't need to explain. Of course, they have questions and other things to ask. These are the details that you start building your product with. How do you implement the market entry strategy? It was very clear that the market was large, people didn't have many options, and they weren't happy with the offline version of the association. So we didn't go back to England again. We haven't been back since then, and we started based on that in Egypt.

The first customers were friends and family. Our friends were more likely to try and help. It was exactly like that. I don't know, it was like a picture in a picture, like helping. They understand that you have a product and you want people to try it, so they say, 'Hey everyone, help us!' and so on. Of course, not everyone is in the feedback section, only the people who are very close to you. They know the book 'The Mom Test,' for example, which tells you, 'If you go to your mother with the product, oh my God, that's really great!' God understands what I mean. It increased in value exactly. But, but, but the first, the very first customers were our friends and relatives, and I remember the application showed pictures of the people who entered. With the group, it was always understood. The family, and Wadi, you understand what I mean. You'll find Sarah and Wadi, I don't know who Wadi is, and the whole family, they were the main parts, I mean. But then, apart from those, yes, apart from those, the people, the real people, came, I mean organic. There was an early adapter, honestly. People, I still remember their names. People I used to go and deliver the contract to, get feedback, and get money from them, and stuff. Very engineering at the beginning. Of course, at the beginning, you're a team of 3 or 4, you understand, so you do everything, you understand what I mean. Now it's operations, and sales, and representatives, and stuff, but in the first period, you do everything yourself, so I remember these things very well. I mean, in the first period, it was clients. We made two market cabins and we started, and we started, I mean, we tried to recruit people with pros and that's it. And then, something that involved money, like, I mean, money, it would be It requires more trust than a regular product I'll return, but this is money, and that was one of our problems, honestly. Look, the savings group is divided into sections, you know? The first section, like the first three levels in a 12-month or 10-month group, those are the ones who borrow. Okay, the people in the last three or four levels are the ones who save, and those in the middle have specific expenses in June, July, school fees, summer travel, so we call them planners. In the first period, the initial group didn't need much trust; we were the ones who were paying them. They get paid in the first or second level, or at the end. We were the ones who needed to ensure our credibility and guarantee their money. We always had the problem of not knowing how to attract the people in the middle and at the end in the same numbers as the people who came in the first. So, of course, it's a marketplace like any marketplace, like Uber, for example. If you don't have enough drivers, but you can't get a ride anywhere. You need to find a rider who understands the concept. So you always have to consider the balance between the two sides. In an Uber case, for example, and in a savings group case, there are more than two sides; there are three or four sides in the same group. So you have to find those who borrow money, those who save money, and those who plan. You understand what I mean. So, to make a savings group successful, the needs are different, and the needs and the people are different. One person understands what they're doing, and another needs money. So, how do you build a relationship with both of them, find both of them, and ultimately bring them into the same group? This is where the challenge begins. It's the opposite of the idea of the savings group, which I initially envisioned as a group with friends, instead of someone doing it offline, bringing in 10 people, and that was it. But when we launched this product, it turned out that this whole thing was a complete failure—that we were going to do private savings groups. Why online? It was the natural thing to take an idea and implement it online in the same way. It failed, failed, failed because, firstly, you'll incur expenses. Why? I do it offline with my friends. The difference is that you've become a bookkeeping app, like an application. You understand, you give lists, you understand what I mean by 'bit mark.' It's not a big deal; it doesn't solve the fundamental problems in the idea of a group, which is network guarantee. I don't want to keep nagging 10 people, bringing them in, and convincing them to join as the third with a certain amount. The whole idea is how to build a very, very large network where anyone can simply tell us how much they want and when, and we can connect them with people they know or don't know. It's not their business. The important thing is that we give them what they need, regardless of whether we keep asking them to bring in people and guarantee people, and then there's trouble. The idea has completely changed. This is the benefit that came with the same product. You changed the idea of the savings groups you were using privately and treating offline to a completely different idea: a large network. So you have to guarantee it, so you have to build a credit score and get power, travel, and banners, and so on. I didn't understand the circle, but thank God we now create more than 50,000 new savings groups every month, and we grow them all full-sell.

Yes, we were entering into specific roles. You try to... So, the bigger the network, the more refined the product becomes, the more suitable savings groups there are for customers, and the more roles are available. So, how can you reach a way to... that violates your... like Uber, for example? Or... because of my market... You'll find that at first, you contract with, for example, travel agencies to get cars, for example. You include those who are part of their monthly salary... This is just the first entry point. Until the people on the other side start getting used to Uber, then it can start letting go of those people and bringing in others for uploading and stuff. So, in any marketplace, the initial period until you build the network is always very, very tiring because you don't really know which came first, the chicken or the egg, the rider or the driver, the power or the server. You know what I mean. And many times, there are products you don't know how to break down. You know what I mean. You can't bring in tourism companies for an idea like a cooperative, so you can't hire people as volunteers. You know what I mean. You need a large number of volunteers to fill the whole cooperative. So, we used to get into a large part of the cooperative at first until we started relying on referrals and began building a credit and trust brand. And we didn't have a license for this model. A cooperative doesn't have a license. We didn't have consumer finance, microfinance, or consumer credit. You know what I mean. So, of course, we were from Day 1, we're tapping on the regulator. We're making this product and we want to be linked, but who are you? What exactly do you follow? The easiest thing for anyone is to compare you to something that already exists to make it easier for you to get involved in something that isn't meant to be created for you. Not everyone can create something new from Scratch, you understand?

Look, the details are in the details. It was really difficult to get 100,000 servers. So we were trying to get as many people as possible with large tickets, to convince them physically. We'd go to them and convince them to join and collect. You understand? It was so difficult that you'd sit down. The product is an application you download, so there shouldn't be any reaction. You understand? But we were trying to get people who could collect tickets. We were trying to get, for example, 10 servers per person. Okay? So, someone with 100 servers could fund 10 people. And it was initially in the back end, not a real savings group. You understand? It wasn't a true savings group because in a savings group you only find two parties. You understand? And they were 10 people. Sometimes it was like, how could one fund another directly? Or sometimes there were three parties and you were the fourth. You understand? So it was... Very Challenge, and we always relied on not spending all our money in savings groups, so we couldn't guarantee that it would continue properly. Why? Because during the group period, someone might get squeezed, someone might not pay, and someone else might not. So how do you start with a card from day 1, keeping all these possibilities in mind, and trying to lend yourself money? Especially if you're not affiliated, the advantage is that if you're affiliated, if something has a license, it comes from day 1 and tells you your project ratio will be such and such. I don't know, understand? It will give you the appropriate ratio for this model. It tells you your minimum workload must be 7 million pounds. Understand? They've created what you can start with so that this project can begin and succeed. We're not just new and no one else has done it; we also don't know how to finance it. Everything is done correctly, and you're already aware of the stories. And of course, in the initial period, like What you're facing is how to get investors. It's really difficult if you're a sole founder to get people to work with you. High experience, you know what I mean? Not easy. He's just like an investor. So, it was very, very important. Shady, Shady, the masterpiece, told me this when I was talking to him about why he went further on the Marketplace model. He was telling me that so the insurance company can create the model that shows the risk of this person, the process takes years and years and years, and people don't pay. I don't know what. I understood. Oh, the important thing is that you have at MoneyFellows, the credit scoring thing, right? Especially since you said that we're going outside the group, so the credit score is very important. So how did you do the credit score thing with the New Project with the Emissions and the Core?

There was a group, for example. I remember it very well because there was a very emotional woman, I mean, she gave. There was a woman for whom the group really made a difference. She was going to have an operation for her mother, and after she received the money from the group, which wasn't really that much, maybe a third-party one or something, it wasn't the only option to be able to get the money for the operation, and for her, it was like a dream if that money actually came. You understand what I mean? So, she was very grateful and called me and came to the office and kept thanking me for the things. For what happens, it is always very difficult for us to understand the issue. These are the things that give you the incentive that you do not need to do this, so they separate me greatly. I mean, she was one of them. I mean, the other one is gone. The second one was also sexual. I mean, honestly, now, I mean, this is one of the things that separates us from time to time. It means that we, as for these things, make you feel that you have separated from people. Without you, it was very difficult for them to be able to reach these goals with a strong TV experience with us, I mean, as a team, and now even we are doing it, Philly Zen Review, we are trying to get bags of customers. How is Maan different? In our generation, this Enco has become, I mean, when we are sitting now, why should it be, because you gave these people an opportunity, what else will happen to them, and if you gave them an idea, they would understand it? It is very good to dismantle the association and enable them to reach their financial goals in an easy way It's simple and guaranteed, I mean, but the emergency aspect was honestly very emotional. It's about emergency operations, about someone who needed to go to the hospital and couldn't get into a clinic, school fees, or a project. Many people rely on this initial payment to start their first prototype or small project. We feel that our goal isn't just profit, that we want to make money, but we also support positive change for people and society. So, it's joyful. I feel that Revere Word of Mouth will likely be very strong because if I need money, I've tried everything right and no one is ready, and then I find someone who actually gives me money, my word will be very strong. You understand what I mean? So, we relied heavily on Revere Word of Mouth for a model like Money because it's a nashal fire. Its nature is that if you break a bicycle, if someone in a group or Two or two groups within a group, and you took them to your virginity, naturally. These two are the remaining eight with them. The important thing is that we were always focused on not growing too quickly so that we could train a small number of clients and give them a great experience, you understand, so that we could rely on their network. And when someone comes to you through a referral, they also come with a trust, you understand? It's great when someone tells you, 'I used them and got paid, and they're respectable people,' and so on. It saves you a lot of effort that you could do as a whole, instead of giving a small part of the clients a great experience and relying on them to spread the word. And I see this as the growth factor. I mean, companies that rely purely on marketing, I feel they're limited. You'll always need a marketing budget to grow, you understand? So what will you achieve? How much will you spend? When? So at some point, you have to rely on two things that I see as very important: referrals. The word 'ward' is out there, and people are telling each other how Britt is doing. The rating system is important; you don't want a customer who uses you once and leaves. You want that customer to stay with you for life. Over time, you'll build the community, and you'll know that 80% of those who come once will come again. So, you can build Britt gradually, little by little. That's why it took us a long time to grow this network. But I think that because we were very close to the customer and because we were persistent and followed up on every case in the initial period, we built a system that could make all customers comfortable and give them the best experience we could give them. Of course, skills come in new skills, so it takes time, but it's much harder because it's very heavy. You know what I mean? If you've missed something, you've forgotten that Plant is a Startup. This is your life. You know what I mean? And the customer has a significant impact. His voice is much louder and stronger than the one who was happy, you understand? I mean, the word 'mouth' is different after that, and this can greatly affect the overall arrangement, for example, any market place, for example, Uber, I order a car, whether it comes or someone comes, okay, one and one. The idea is also in the money, which is positive, and also difficult, that there are 12 people, right? So when will we start, for example, 12? Good, because every ride or trip here has 12 people, and these 12 are the ones who will bring 12, meaning each one will bring, you understand, I mean bring one person, so okay. But how did you also manage to fix his part? I mean, easily, we will close, when will we close? Seven, there are five left, we will remove the five. I mean, how did you know when we would close the group and when it would start? And this is on its own, I mean, a good question, I mean, this is on its own, we are in it. If we, as a team, used to wait, I mean, the group We tried as much as we could, and then we realized that this project failed too. Okay, if you didn't come and tell the client, because today you have to tell the client that they will be paid after three months, then after three months means that the group must start next month so that you can get paid for the clients. Because no one will come, God willing, everything will be fine. Understand, no one will know how to sell to the client. Just come and God will make it easy. Do you understand what I mean? You have to be sure of what you are selling to them and when you guarantee the date, which is after three months, between the 15th and the end. Do you understand what I mean? So, this is what we started. We were doing as much as we could, God willing, everything will be fine, but we found that this project doesn't mean it won't succeed at all. So what we did was that we established that every month we start new groups that start the following month. So, you have a window for the university months that we do. We have to continue as much as we can. Okay, so this affects our budget. What are the expectations? 100 million, so 20%, we understand, or is it 50%? So we have a budget, you understand. So over time, you keep tracking this every day. What has it reached? Should we launch more, or close it like that? Or are we doing this too in the backend? You understand? We, as a team, sit there every day looking at the reports. How much have the clients paid? How much budget do we have? Is there a capacity for more launch? And then there are things with high demand and things with low demand. There are things that depend on the season. The timing of this round is more important than the same round in three or four months. For example, there are school fee deadlines. You understand what I mean? If we are in January and she is in July, then July is a bit more important. So I started creating all these things manually, all offline, all efforts with the team. We were in the backend, and I remember you

You know the advice we hear everywhere and everything, the one who tells you, 'I understand,' at first, you're building things, your goal isn't for them to be perfect. You'll never know when you're working and building and just looking around. But some people fall into this trap, trying to fix everything. So instead of us learning and doing things, no, many people you'll find weren't doing this and were just building based on their imagination or perception of how the problem would look, and they never actually reach a real problem. When you start to see and understand these things, that's the real work. So in the initial period, you don't have to have everything done out there, because these things come with resources, time, and you, the startup, don't have all of these things. You don't have the time, the team, or the resources, and you'll do what you can.

Work, it's a problem, it's become a good thing. What's this? We're grown up now. Manual is a very good problem because you can't fulfill all customer requests since you have a lot of customers. So then you start automating things, killing some and throwing others away. You know what I mean? This was very useful for us, and what helped us was that we were a very organized team, you understand? We did it ourselves, with our own hands, not just a little bit. So what are these things? Okay, to summarize, if you were to go back, would you do them again since you know more now? What would you do in the marketplace?

Let's think, for example, one day we decided to automate the day we decided to build the building in a specific way. We had to build the technological foundation of the product. This is a topic I would have elaborated on more, to be honest, because with SCBI, it's very difficult to stop. When you reach a point where you're growing, you don't have enough. You have a pipeline, lots of things, and problems that you want to solve. You find yourself constantly solving L2s and our other things, developing the product, and so on, and you forget the foundation of the building or the foundation of the structure. So, of course, at the beginning, because you don't know what will work and what won't, you invest your time in what's most important. But at a certain point, you have to start early because it's much harder to change all of this, to demolish the foundation and rebuild the whole building from scratch after it's 20 stories high. You know what I mean? So, if I could go back in time, I would build the infrared structure. Of course, we've built and changed it now, but it was more expensive. Much more resources, much more. At a time when we could have invested in things and fixed problems much faster.

You haven't reached the next big stage yet. I mean, you still can't grow one aspect and the other quickly enough because no matter what happens, you'll be trying to cover and start getting involved. One side of them, quickly enough, and you'll find that Unit Economics, for example, might fail you, and your model will be built in a way that requires you to find B, but music is very important because you also come up with things that you find as a production after the initial period. You understand what I mean? If you mean that you lose as you grow, you understand what I mean, this might be for a certain period and that's it, you understand what I mean. It might be for a certain period and you do it, but you have to be sure you can make it work because there is also a part where the clients themselves get used to this model being free, this model being cheap, cheaper than everything else. If you and your clients think that we will burn in one area and cover it ourselves, and we don't have to profit until we grow, and then God will make it easy. There are many people in this switch, which is like, 'Okay, let's go and turn it over,' as if it's like a building, you might burn it. And it grows in exchange for you growing less, but I think this is important. It's because we're going to do something quickly and sell it, so you have to have a bit of a long-term perspective. It's not just today; it'll be beneficial. This is the time when we can really measure things, you understand. But this is important. I mean, at first, you didn't have a certain number of customers, you were more interested in having customers because you needed a certain number to get the network working, right?

Right, the point you're asking about, the point where your practice starts to change because you're not able to handle the traffic coming to you, okay? So it becomes apparent that in certain areas you're not able to, and that's why you can't be competitive or successful. And the idea is that there are people also making mistakes, meaning a lot. So, what does that point do? It starts increasing the manual hot account. You understand what I mean. You now have more traffic, and you're relying on something done manually. So, if someone was doing 10 people per hour, and now you have 1 person who can get 10 people to do it, you understand what I mean. Over time, you'll inevitably find that... This is the issue. No matter what happens, you'll keep reaching what you're aiming for. I mean, 10,000 people, 20, you understand what I mean. What's wrong with you? Technology? Your goal is to surpass it. That's your core principle. You understand what I mean. Project? So, if the customer sees everything, but there's something here in the company that doesn't see the customer from the outside, it accepts everyone. The customer doesn't see it. This is working behind the scenes.

How does he know that the groups, the roles, are specific? He can base the whole idea on one after the other. By solving some of these problems, you can... it happens in something, on the contrary, it becomes one design in the world, he understands, write anything you want and if it brings it to you, there is only one action that is done, you understand, but in the geek, how does it work to bring you the most important things, and it makes it so that no one else knows how to do Google, you understand, I mean, he starts thinking about this part, and you start to reach the stage where you can't mess things up, and the choice is that I'm not going to think about how this part is, many people don't know it, and so on, they don't become, I mean, it's a problem with the tick, but after a little while, after you reach it, the company starts to move very slowly, you understand, I mean, you want to release a new product, you want to change something, so because of the period, you were supposed to do five things every two weeks, experiments, you try and test, why, because it's all manual, and so when a period comes after a while, you can't move quickly enough to change or release things, and you'll start to notice that it's all built on 'has a block and is your infrared sector,' you know what I mean? With startups, as they grow, they generally slow down. Like, with more people or additional staff in the company, you start creating processes. You start saying, 'So-and-so gives this to that, it has to go through this and take this,' and so on. So you start creating things, and that's how it slows down. The best thing about art is that they remain the most efficient and fastest in this space. From a certain point of view, other companies come in and take over much faster. It's a point of view that makes us live. We didn't have a phone, right?

So when, then, the system definitely started to change its form so that you can be a struggle and there is no bureaucracy, so consequently the organ or the general form needs to change, right? When do you feel that it's time to change, and when you change, change the form. What did you learn that you have definitely changed a lot too? How did you start? Good question. And honestly, one of the most important things is that just as the technology and backend reach a stage where they need to liquidate their base, the early team, management, founders, and so on also need to be liquidated. You understand? They need to grow at the same rate as the startup grows. You understand? This is also what the problem is: startups that grow, or reach the product market, grow much faster. From the growth of the people themselves, you find the development of the people with you, and most companies start from the first CTO, CF, CP, CM, or C, you understand what I mean, so it's already closed, you understand what I mean, so here's where the problem arises, that this stage needs someone, by God, front companies, but they can't grow at the same speed, so that's why it's very important that the person's AG and GABS, and how to develop quickly and not be stubborn about their ideas, and that's how this part becomes the biggest barrier for the person to grow. There's no self-awareness, enough for them to admit their mistakes, listen to feedback, and bring in someone more skilled than them. There are many problems as people who also start in the skin stage of the company, you start to find that there's no skill, so this is very important for one to keep following it and try as much as possible to grow people quickly enough, as the company is growing so that we can all grow. I saw Apple, of course. Thank God, we're not that case, or rather, not everyone is like that, but thank God, we have many stories. Some people were able to take different stages, and also many people who, in their own right, said, 'Look, at this stage we've entered, I might not be the most suited for this role.' There are some really good people who can work alone, work on technology, and show you everything, but the team has grown, and it needs to be hands-on. You know what I mean. Generally, some people know they aren't the best fit, and the requirements start to change. You know what I mean. At this stage, it really comes with a twist and turns. You have to make changes. These changes can sometimes be very heavy and difficult, and at times when you need to fly. Sometimes you take steps that you think might slow things down, but again, if you don't take those steps at the right times, it will be much harder to take them later. So, you always have to be vigilant. I see you haven't made the right decisions. In the right times and such, and these things were both high-level in many companies, the buttons were available and the market was available and needed, but these hidden needs are what made it clear that the company could not miss this knife stage and complete this, as the saying goes, Hard Design Easy Life Easy Design Hard Life, which is exactly the hours, you will not be able to make difficult decisions in order to make it easier for yourself is your life later, but you did not make difficult decisions, and as a startup you always remain yourself. Everything you do is quick, you understand that you do something now, it affects tomorrow, understand, you are fine. You get used to hours. No, not everything. Quick Starts. Hours make difficult decisions that are not guaranteed. On the contrary, they will answer you, but they will bring you an understanding. I mean, it is all this startup world, and there are many hidden problems. So, what problems are you? I met you. If someone is depressed now, he can avoid these needs or problems, for example. The mission is strong, meaning theirs, and it grows so you can grow and expand the company.

Personalities, I was saying this a while ago, I might find, not necessarily, that they're wrong, but I feel that people who take feedback, who know their flaws and strengths, who understand the process, so I'm comparing them logically. You might be Mark Zuckerberg, for example, or many others who weren't, for example, CEOs, or businessmen, or anything like that, so they didn't take stock. It's all related to personality, how quickly it develops. Personalities that are, well, determined, and that's it, and it's difficult, there's no way around it. I feel that these are the ones who can't grow at the same pace as the company. Honestly, Zack's branding is legendary. I mean, what's with his branding? Of course, from Jake, who now wears cool glasses. No, no, it's a mic, I mean, I'd rather... I started with my first win. If I saw myself, I wouldn't know... I mean, you understand what I mean. Well, they're important too, I mean, this... It's something no one talks about, but your team is very important. They're crucial, like a team flow. If the initial setup isn't right, they might be right for this stage. But if they don't have the necessary qualifications, they can be harmful. Some companies fail because of their staff at this stage, and problems arise. You know, it's not everything. It depends on what authority you give these staff members. If they have enough authority early on, then they should have the same level of authority. But if they don't, it's completely different. You need to have support to give you access to the store. So, choosing your team members is very important, especially the investors who are on the board with you. These things are very important because they are skilled. The issue can also be very difficult if you don't have the same vision. If they don't want to be involved, they can be very difficult. Trustworthy people should remain risk-averse, so their life is always about 'how to take risks.' It means minimizing risks, eliminating risks, and searching for risks. You know, if you took someone right now—we're sitting here at this table—and got a microscope, you'd find a lot of viruses and bacteria. You understand? If you're always looking for a flaw or a problem, we'll never finish. You understand what I mean? So, unfortunately, because the region isn't consulted, from an economic system investment perspective, there might be certain stages where the investor doesn't know how to deal with them. You understand? We haven't seen many companies that are successful, and many companies that graduate and are sold. You understand? So, at some point, you become a founder, but you only own 20%, not the company. The rest are the investors, so not all decisions are in your hands. The flexibility is in trying and making mistakes, not in being inexperienced. You understand? If they don't provide the necessary capital and you win... I mean, the whole startup thing is a lot of failed experiments until you find a successful one. You understand? So if he's looking for failure and sitting around doing nothing, stopping things because he's afraid of failure, if that becomes the overall vibe of the company at the board level, then it's very risky. And that's something you have to avoid. I think you'll ask, 'Who did this company invest in?' So you ask the people who invested in it, you ask about investors. Don't build it up, so you have a question mark. You understand what I mean? But no matter what, it has a big chance of being influenced by the founder's life, or the founder's, or that they have to manage the board in a certain way. So it's not always straight ahead, but there have to be certain principles that everyone agrees on. We'll make mistakes, but we'll grow. You understand the strategic point? If there are things that aren't clear, it doesn't mean they're wrong. How can we build a strong foundation? You understand what I mean. These things are incredibly important because as long as they're not there and the decision isn't solely yours, you might hinder the growth and development I'm talking about. This foundation can be crucial at some point, as the company will either grow or someone else will come along and surpass it. It's because you've paved the way for others. You've shown them how it works, that it actually works, and what you didn't see when you first started. You've established benchmarks and other things, and now you're starting to slow down. Other startups might come along and be faster. So how do you maintain your foundation and keep it going for as long as possible? This is a bit scary because sometimes the company that's first isn't the one that's last. Of course, there are examples like MySystem and Facebook. There are countless examples. This doesn't end, and it's something that also makes you a bit more difficult. You have an advantage as long as you're at a certain level, but after that, your risk increases. You understand what I mean? So, you have a high advantage because you're the first in the field and there's no direct, clear competition. That's an advantage, but it can turn against you if you're not fast enough at all times.

Of course, no, this was one of the hardest things, finding an investor. Especially since you're saying it's not just enough to find an investor, but you're saying that he chose an investor, exactly, right? So, you actually... I didn't know how to get investors, it was really difficult, I mean, exactly. Of course, this choice is an opportunity, you understand that you're not, I mean, it's difficult. It was strong at the beginning, but you investors at each stage. So, when you reach a certain level, you'll have, for example, taken seven investment rounds with 20 investors. You understand what I mean. So, that's the first investment round, not to mention the third, the fourth, and so on. But of course, for us, it was very difficult. It was one of the hardest things, and we didn't have a clear, explicit license. An investor looking to invest in a company on the margin market without a license is always at risk of losing it at any second. So, my money had a 70% chance of being lost. You understand what I mean? Plus, let's not even go there. What would make someone take that 70% risk? Well, in America, it's very successful and booming, and the companies have reached that level. You understand? So, honestly, that first investment round in particular was extremely difficult, and we were on the brink. Honestly, all the time, it was like week by week, you know what I mean. It was really hard to see months ahead. The Saturday thing didn't exist because you were required to spend, you were required to change, you didn't have any resources. And the first investment round, for example, was on the condition that we could get approval from the regulator. So, the investor was convinced, signed an agreement, and they set up a KPI for you. They said, 'I'll give you the first 20%, and the other 80% will be for the project.' Or, on the condition that you get a license from the regulator. That was six years ago. Okay, we only got our license from the regulator a year and a half ago, you know what I mean. So, four and a half years... we... we... the condition, which is... understand it. And then, for them, you go and get the license, you know? You know what I mean. And the details of... well, I don't even know which regulator to go to to get me a license, the authority or the central bank or... you know what I mean. I mean, we go with a bank and we go alone. They're too young for them to even look at you. You understand what I mean? It was back, it was also in the air. Of course, now the matter is more complicated, and it's much clearer for any company. I mean, now there's the demo fund, the sunbox, and things like that. It makes a difference, of course, for people who are going through the same problem I was in. But it was a difficult stage, and we had a history with investors, and the investors changed their minds a lot. And in the middle of the round, I had to sell everything I had, everything I had saved, everything. You understand what I mean. It was a difficult period at the beginning, but it's all about persistence. You see it as a problem, and you don't care about all the events happening around you. You're focused on a specific target and you're trying to reach it by any means.

Well, fan reasoning isn't always very rational. It's not always all about paperwork, business plans, and brochures. All you plan early on is that most of the plans you put in place early in the company only achieve a 5% return. You understand what I mean? You'll never find a company that manages to create a business plan and stick to it without debt. So it's not everything. But, with investors, how do you convince them? I think that's a skill too. Like selling, fan reasoning is also needed. You don't just grab a good idea or a good team. The investor you're dealing with wants to be sure that the money they give you will be returned to them after several years, multiple times over. Especially in this field, they're also a bit greedy, so they don't expect you to give them double. He's expected to give him 50 times what he's taking, because he's taking a huge risk, you know what I mean? And I think there are many like that in this group. You can also pool your resources instead of taking a large sum from one person and struggling. You can take small amounts from several people so you can get through the first step. If I were to advise someone, for example, start fan-raising, meaning start getting to know the investors and tell them your plans and stuff. But you don't have to be in fan-raising mode, just try as much as you can to come up with something compelling that you can show the investor before... I mean, going with your cold shoulder and going with 1000 clients, you know what I mean, is different than going to Beach Duck. But it has a good plan and stuff. It makes a big difference when you go to him with something real and tangible, unlike going with just dreams, you know? This is very important. Many people sometimes waste more time than they spend talking to investors and running after them early enough before they set a deadline. He imagines that the money will come and then we'll build, but the difficult thing is that you need to build something very simple. You need to eliminate some things beforehand. Before you start investing, or for example, you could reach an understanding with investors to have a condition, for example, that you bring 20% and then take action. I don't like that. Look, it was difficult. I'm telling you, it was a condition to not approve. You understand what I mean? That's what will reassure them. But you keep putting in key factors. You don't know, you're still in the first stage. You don't know what you want. You also don't want to be restricted to a specific product. You'll get it, right? You want to do the right thing, so you might even change the product completely. You understand? Like when we were doing private circles, for example. If I was determined to get 1000, I would have focused on adding the thousand to the 1000, not on seeing what works and what the scale is. You understand what I mean, so I don't think it's likely you'll do it like that, you know.

Yes, no, honestly, I'm a solo founder. Yes, of course, that wasn't my choice. I mean, when I first started in Germany, I had one co-founder, but of course, the many moves from country to country because of MoneyFellows weren't easy. So, I tried to look for the origin, I mean, you should be or not, I mean not just like that. But, but I've always thought that anyone who comes to any vertical in magnetics, I've always focused on bringing someone who is much more skilled than me, as much as we can in that area, in that field, so we can work together and learn. From him, and you remain, and you remain, like, people keep telling you, 'Man,' and he keeps running after people so things get done and I don't know what else. I mean, I've never felt that he, I mean, on the contrary, you're the one who should bring someone, whether it's a founder or a Leithron. The important thing is to try to build the owner and have that person have the same vision, the same mindset you have. So I was always trying to bring someone who was more skilled than me in their field and at the same time had the ability to test them. So, in all of this, I mean, the person, what, I mean, you're a person, where are we going, and you're enthusiastic enough, enough, enough, enough, enough, so, thank God, God blessed me with a team of members, all of them, without any of them, I mean, it's very difficult, I mean, the ones who are here today, you were saying that when you started, you changed a lot from now, how did you change?

No, I mean, from many things, I changed in one area. For example, I used to be... I mean, I noticed things. I always saw her as small, meaning now she sees me... it doesn't matter, but this directional literature, this part, I mean, I changed it a lot because I found that I was wrong about a lot of things and I found that I'm not always right about a lot of things. The things around you aren't higher and the rest are just a little bit of everything, it's all understood, I mean, I always felt like I knew I had this part, I mean, if, for example, I went through a certain period and didn't feel that there was good news, we won something, I'd go and try to see it in any place, in any field, I mean, in this part, I felt, I mean, I might lose, lose, lose, but we'll win in the end, you understand what I mean? At first, I used to get upset about every loss, but now... no, there are a lot of things we've fallen into, so if I used to get upset about every fall like I used to, I'm always swimming and polo, so if I came in second in a race, for example I get upset if I lose. I still have this feeling, even with my kids. Sometimes, if your son is playing Korean with you, he should win. Sometimes, no, I can't. I mean, I'm a little more reserved because that's why the person understood this. I've changed a lot in this area. I mean, your perception of yourself has changed over time. Oh, I feel that I don't magnify anything anymore. I always see the good in everyone. I used to always try to see how I could be good at everything, but there's one or two things I don't understand. Or perform. Anyone who understands what I mean, this part of me came from, I don't know what it came from, from being young. But this part...

So, we used to meet at 11, and now it's 3, so we've been together for four hours. I really thank you for your time, and I'm waiting to be in the IPO. I mean, God willing. Your prayers and I hope you're well. But really, I'm genuinely happy. I mean, sometimes if I sit for four hours then the topic starts to become clear, you understand. If it's boring, then you'll find things that are unimaginable and unimaginable, and so on. So, there's an adventure with you, you understand.