Here, everything is actually financial, everything giants. Those you tease. Well, we try to tease quietly so no one saw. The goal is to be number one in each country. Almost everything is possible to achieve, actually. That which obeys the laws of physics. Next year goal to earn 9 billion dollars in revenue and 3 net profit, setting more and more ambitious goals and reaching them itself.
Is there any organization at all financial, which you consider your competitor?
There's my DSK with a white jacket.
In terms of? There is no office at all.
It's only when you start working with average people, they come to you and they say: 'Oh, but we have such problems, and what should we do? How can we help? We don't like such people.' They should be very smart. There must be skill to solve problems.
Do you know what it looks like?
I know. If we have a rigid culture, why do people want to work here then? They don't want to leave.
They left because of Russian citizenship. Came out, huh?
Hello, friends. I'm in London. Here, as usual, it's windy and cold, but I'm very, very pleased, nevertheless, with the fact that I am here today. There's a new office of the Revolut company behind me, and now I'll go there to talk to its founder, Nikolai Storonsky. And I, of course, I'm very, very glad that we will have this conversation because today, Revolut is valued at 75 billion dollars. And this is what Revolut does, probably the most expensive startup created by a compatriot of ours, albeit a former one. We had, uh, many years ago, I think 7 years ago, a conversation with Nikolai. We then called it the secrets of the most fast-growing or hottest startup with Russian roots. He is predicted to have a future like Uber, but only in the banking sector. At that time, Revolut was estimated at 15 billion. And, of course, it's incredible what a journey this company and its founder have taken. All in all, of course, I want to reveal to you all the secrets, how this is even possible. Well, let's go.
And here I am, still talking about you, uh, via bluetooth work. I thought you had fingerprints via Bluetooth.
Yes, yes. That same tall stick on one floor.
There's a bit of a guest from the future here.
Well, yes.
Nikolay, thank you very much for this opportunity to talk a second time. This, of course, is not the same company that it was 7 years ago when we were in 2018.
Yes, it was such a modest office on Kursk. That's all here, of course.
Kursk was not our main office, that's probably why it was modest.
Well, yes, there were developers there, yes.
I, of course, can say that I am a big fan and it's true, guys, it's not advertising. I am a very big fan of the product. That is, if there are any adherents, then I definitely relate to them. But the thing is that, of course, I am very impressed by this tremendous growth. Uh, I don't at all understand how you do it. I really want to find out and tell others. Do you have a new office?
Yes, we moved here a month ago. Just a month ago.
Is this your own or are you filming?
Well, we are filming, yes. Well, we took the premises, did renovations.
Yes. How many people are there here?
There are 2,000 people in London.
Yes. And you seemed to have announced that you would increase the quantity.
So, for you, this is an investment in Britain, is it planned?
Well, from a PR point of view, yes.
How much in total? Come on, let me show you how you have it set up here.
Okay, well, this is the main section. Yes. Such, like from the future. Here we usually have all sorts of drinks, receptions, a lot of people come. Here we have, uh, a meta-audience, yes, here, well, various speeches are arranged, different people are brought in, different shows.
What kind of shows do you invite?
Well, from a marketing point of view, we invite, for example, entrepreneurs, so that they can use Revolut for business.
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How many people are there in Revolut now? How many does it work in and in how many countries?
The core team consists of 5,000 people. And there is also support, services and SLAs - that's another thousand people, in my opinion. So there are amounts somewhere well, more than 10,000.
Well, I would say it's pretty modest in relation to, well, conditionally speaking, other banks.
Well, yes, yes. That is, there are some, I don't know, tens of thousands of people work normally. Well, yes, the core team is 5,000 people.
Well, how does it work out anyway? That is, people, I don't know, they call twice as much and three times more there.
Well, we are essentially customer support automated to 3/odd. That is, before these LLM language models, we had a large support team. Now 75% of all volumes, but in essence, well, the chatbot responds either by voice or by voice assistant.
Ah, that is, when I correspond there, then this is usually a chatbot in support.
In this case, well, I see. Let's go further and have a look.
Ah, and in how many countries is Revolut now?
We are now somewhere around 40 countries.
Yes. Well, what kind of ones do you have there, if so, can we say, these are the main points?
Well, it's clear that Britain is, well, Britain's main market is France, Spain, Italy, Romania, Poland. Yes. Now Germany is already starting to pick up.
And in general, is development also here?
Yes. We have developers in almost every office. Well, it's big, the biggest office in London. There is development here, in Spain, in Barcelona, in Madrid, Poland. Here you can go here. Well, of these 5,000 people, probably 1,200 are developers. There's another 1,000 in product. Well, we're probably roughly 30-40% is product engineering and data science of all the entire staff.
Yes. Operations is a big function. Well then, there is, probably, if you compare it with some traditional bank, then the IT component is very prevalent.
Well, I guess so. I don't know what the numbers are for traditional banks, but somewhere around 30-40% is development, product, and data science.
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Nikolay, literally a week ago, I think, you had a big event. You received a new assessment from investors, 75 billion dollars. And how much is your company now approximately worth? It was, as I understand it, some kind of secondary placement. Can you tell me what it was all about and what kind of placement this is and did you raise investments?
It's not that we didn't raise anything, because the company is profitable and we don't need any capital. And actually, in May, large investors also came and said they wanted to invest. And we agreed with them on this valuation of 75 billion in May. And only recently we announced it. Yes. That is, we allowed them to buy from previous investors at that valuation. So some investors exited, and they bought.
That is, how could Revolut not receive any money itself?
But we didn't do a primary. No. A primary is when new shares are issued and we sell to shareholders. We didn't do that.
So these investments you're talking about, they announced it recently, that's also quite recently, I think it was a couple of months ago, you're going to, actually, from what you earned?
Well, yes, we don't have any external capital.
And as I understand it, there are also employees who could sell something. Can you tell me how it works? Do you have any pool now? There are employees who have become co-owners, managers? Every employee has some compensation in shares. Well, that is, there is a salary, there is a bonus. Depending on the seniority of the employee, some bonuses are paid in cash, part is paid in shares.
This applies to all 12,000 in general. Well, we have 5,000 employees who are not customer support, not sales. The other 7,000 are support, sales, and fincrime services. Their compensation is a little different, mostly in cash.
Yes. A few months ago, I think there was a big announcement about what you are planning, such impressive investments, billions of sums in different development. Could you tell me again what you are planning, where and why?
We are planning, naturally, expansion. We applied for a banking license in Europe, we are applying for a banking license in England, and applying for a banking license in the States. Revolut is in about 40 countries now. We are now making a big push in Latin America. In Latin America, we have already received a banking license in Mexico. We bought a bank in Argentina. We applied for a banking license in Brazil. In Peru, we applied for a banking license. In Colombia, we received a banking license. We are very strongly expanding our staff and launching a business there. Then in North America, in the States, we are applying for a banking license. And then, if we look at the Middle East, we are getting a license. And in Africa, in Morocco and in South Africa, we recently applied for a license. And in Asia, the Philippines, the banking license has already been received. We are currently looking to buy a bank in Indonesia. And in Australia, we already have a business and there seems to be a pending banking license. What about India? Yes, we will also apply for a banking license in India.
That is, basically, you've just listed the whole world.
Well, not the whole world, that's a percentage. How many are there if there are 200 countries in the world? We want to be in 60. As they say, this is the way. 30% is not visible. To be in 100 countries, to be the number one player in 100 countries of the world, so that there would be 100 million clients.
How many users do you have now?
Oh, already a bit. So you are the biggest, yes? And now if we talk about Daily Active categories, well, we have about 15 million Daily Active, I think 25-30 weekly Active and there are 35-40 million total. And in total, these are considered people who have an account opened, but they don't use it often. That is, apparently, people for whom this is some second, third bank, a spare, right? There are 15 million such users.
Yes. You certainly gathered powerfully. Investment evaluation is for all this necessary.
Well, we figured out that it would be, I think they announced 6 or 8 billion for expansion, but this is for the next 5 years. This is without Great Britain.
This is without Great Britain.
United Kingdom, I think there were 3 billion and thousands of additional jobs.
So for you, Britain is still the main market, but it's less than 20% of the business now. That is, it is no longer as significant as it was earlier, but nevertheless, Revolut is number one.
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Well, let's go, since we've already started talking about countries and continents, let's talk about America.
Well, America is a country of more than 300 million population, the most powerful financial system, the most powerful economy. And you are in a bit of a waiting mode, that is, you have it for enterprises, but not for the mass of people using it, right?
We don't have a banking license there.
And how does regulation work in America, if you are not an American company?
They allow you to get a banking license there if there is a consolidated banking regulator, and it can only be England, France, or Germany. So, while we haven't transferred all our clients in England to a banking license in England, they don't allow us to get a banking license there.
Ah, so the Americans want you to have already issued a banking license?
No, they want it to be a consolidated regulator. One of the three I named.
What is a consolidated regulator?
Well, if it's a British company, accordingly, the consolidated regulator is the PRA, it's the regulator of British banking.
That is, the ECB is not this, European, right?
Look, I remember when we were talking, I was still interrogating you. So, are you a bank or not a bank? How would you describe it?
Well, look, we launched 2 years ago. We never positioned ourselves as a bank. We always positioned ourselves as a tech company that works in the banking sector, but provides services better and cheaper compared to banks.
Even then it wasn't entirely clear. Now I have a feeling that you still maintain the pace of development of a technology company, but you're still trying to become a bank, to join that club.
Well, we have already passed that club in most countries. That is, Revolut is essentially a banking group that provides all banking services and also non-banking services. We also do business outside of banking. For example, we have a crypto exchange, cryptocurrencies, lifestyle products, and SIM cards. And recently we launched a VPN. So we are a technology company that is in the banking business, but in addition to banking, we also have other businesses.
You yourself perceive yourself from the inside, how do we build such a modern bank of the 21st century, or are you still fintech?
It depends on the definitions, what is fintech, what is a bank. It depends on how you think, as I think. We just look at where the opportunities are and go there.
Well, the opportunities still lie in making money, probably in loans.
In loans too, in credit cards, yes. That is the most profitable type of this kind. Well, again it depends on the country. In Europe, for example, credit cards are very strongly regulated. Companies that have a lot of money earned on credit cards, like Capital One, couldn't build a business in Europe because of the strong regulation. They put you in such a framework that it's hard to earn on credit.
Capital One. This is actually, at one time Tinkov said that he spied on them at the beginning, took their model, and then, of course, redeveloped it.
Yes. In the States, this is actually permissible. In the States, the credit business is a big business and there is different regulation compared to Europe. So you can really build a big credit business there, just like in Latin America.
And Latin America is also credit-oriented, yes?
Well, now, in general, if we talk about today, you are actually a bank that mainly makes money in Europe?
Yes. 95% of our revenue is from Europe. This is Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Romania, Poland. But we are in every country in Europe now. If we talk about what brings in the main money, it's transactions and crypto. Well, we are very diversified. We have, I don't know, probably 10 product lines, and they are all approximately the same. Crypto is less than 7% of revenue. So it's a balanced thing.
I can't help but ask you about your plans for France, because they wrote that you are going to open a Western European office with the center in France.
Yes, we are applying for a banking license in France. Well, we rented a big office in France.
While you operate in Europe through a Lithuanian license.
We have a European Central Bank license. We started with a Lithuanian banking license and from, I think, 2022, we have been regulated by the European Central Bank.
Well, as if that wasn't enough.
Well, I don't understand. I want to ask you. That is, if you have the ECB, it's kind of European, it's for everyone, or is it not so?
Well, on the one hand, it's for everyone, on the other hand, as I already said, in America, they want the domestic regulator to be either the UK, or France, or Germany. Not the ECB, but rather one of them, because the ECB is a superstructure over Europe.
Listen, France in general, how can I say this, in some sense it is famous for its strong banks. There are a lot of strong classic banks there. If you get this license, then you will become their direct competitor.
Well, we are already their direct competitor, because we already have a banking license, we already produce all products in France, including credit. We are already a competitor. And in fact, if you look at France, we are the fastest growing bank there now, which opens the most new accounts. So whether we get a license or not, it won't have any effect.
I saw in one interview, you said this, you tried to say something about all these regulatory things, how to simplify it, to get the easiest licenses readily available. I think it was even in the Financial Times interview, and how to go as quickly as possible, at the expense of technology to develop. I understand that something has changed in your idea of how this world is arranged.
No, well, in practice we started that way because that was the common sense for an outsider. To move quickly, you have to be as little regulated as possible. But we've been in this business for over 10 years, have received many banking licenses, launched in many countries, some didn't work. We realized that in fact the most optimal thing is not to enter a country with a lighter license, like an e-money license or payments license. First, obtain a full banking license with all the products, then launch the product. This is our approach, and we see the benefits in the long term. Firstly, because such a license is easier to get when you don't have clients. Secondly, by getting a lighter license, you can't launch all products. As a result, it's difficult for you to compete with local banks. It's much easier to switch everything around and say, 'No, we'll get the banking license first, then launch all products at the same time.'
If you take some book about startup operating manuals, it says the opposite, that you need to be lean and spend less.
Theorists, because in practice it's the opposite.
And you said that since clients are not many, it seems easier, right?
I'm just watching as a fan, I'm watching your way in Britain. You first had a limited license, then you issued a full license, then it slowed down.
No, they didn't slow it down. The process is, they gave it. And then you need to get permission from them in order to transfer all clients from the lighter license to the full banking license. This process has been going on for 12-13 months. The main reason is that the British regulator has never seen a company that grows 50-100% per year, which has many banking licenses, which has 12 million clients in the UK. They've never done this in their life. The closest analogy is probably HSBC, which is also an international bank with many products, also in the UK. It grows 3-5% per year. So they haven't seen a business like ours yet, and that's why they are super cautious and afraid.
Yes. 12 million clients - how much is that in England? 70 million? 20% of the adult population, right? Well, more than 20%, yes, if of the adult population. That is, every fifth, I think even every fourth person has a Revolut card. So when you are big, you somehow need to be monitored more strongly.
And when this license is incomplete, what is the difference? What can't you do?
We cannot give credit. We can do the rest.
Well, that's how the regulation system works. It's designed so that as soon as you start to balance a business, it's a credit business, then it's a different regulator, the PRA. The payments business is the FCA, the Financial Conduct Authority. So it's a completely different observer behind us.
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Basically, from the outside, you are growing very fast. People trust you with their money, but this rapid growth probably creates some concerns. How do you handle risk management?
Well, we have a lot of product teams, engineers, and data science management. This is actually where we differ from other old banks. We solve compliance and risk management issues with technology as well. So instead of hiring lots and lots of people, risk managers, we build systems, we build internal products that automatically monitor risks and have automatic risk controls. Plus, regulation itself. Let's say, not a single bank can tell if they are fully compliant with regulation or not. Because we are present in approximately 40 countries around the world. What did we do? We built a system that essentially loads all these regulations. That's about 400,000 pages, probably half a million pages. It is impossible for one person to read in their whole life. Only AI can do it. Then, accordingly, AI, language models, they extract our obligations in English. Then managers link these obligations to controls. And then they test these controls, they check whether the control works or not. No bank in the world does this. Not a single bank in the world can tell if they are compliant and show proof that they are compliant with each paragraph of regulation.
Oh, and you have it automated?
We have the majority automated, right?
And you have an internal model? You built your own neural network?
Why don't we do this usually? Yes.
That is, you have your own neural network inside the bank?
And what about your own neural network in terms of LLM? Yes. Yes. Not language models. There we have many, we use OpenAI providers, a million, there is open source. Usually, they take open source, fine-tune it, and adapt it to their needs.
Well, anyway, you see, somehow they are afraid and moving very slowly.
Well, I think because the regulator is not for those companies. They don't have the same methods that we have. They still regulate using old methods, on a piece of paper.
Well, that is, what policies do you have? Describe your policy, describe your controls, then there's some ping-pong with emails, then they ask some questions. That's how they regulate. Do you have any expectations regarding the timeframe, in Britain in particular?
In Britain, I never have any expectations.
I read that you hope by the end of the year, but the clock is already ticking, there is little left.
Always in hope. We always hire banking teams of classic bankers, but we interview them very carefully for special qualities that we need.
Problem-solving, then cultural fit. There must be certain skills. In principle, we are very selective in the people we hire, especially bankers.
Well, probably especially the leaders, because they need to have their own characteristics to match you?
First of all, they must be very smart, there must be the ability to solve problems. We usually hire people with so-called STEM education: Science, Technology, Engineering, Math. Secondly, they must have a track record, some big achievements compared to their peers or from their peer groups. It starts with student life, with school. So we ask, 'Okay, what achievements did you have at university? What university did you graduate from? What did you do in your career at that bank, that bank, that bank?' And during the interview, it's clear if they are in the top 5% of people in that bank or not. And cultural fit. We mainly look at people who are doers, who can solve tasks. We look at people who are strong managers, because basically 90-95% of people are afraid to fire others. We definitely look to ensure that people don't have such fear, because it is a very important component of business. We look at the quality of their work. It is important that they are deep in detail on one hand, and on the other hand, they are even perfectionists in some ways. And the last thing we look at is that they set ambitious goals and achieved them. Usually, people who come always try to lower goals at work or in organizations to make it easier to achieve. We don't like people like that.
You said that 95% of people are afraid to fire, and that people tend to set their goals too low. What have you discovered from your experience over these 10 years of building the company?
Well, yes, I've probably done, I don't know, 10,000 to 20,000 interviews in person. Many. We ask the manager: 'Okay, how many people report to you? 200 people. How many have you fired in the last 3 years? Two or three.' OK. Not ours, that's not enough.
But how does it turn out that all 200 people are very strong? That doesn't happen.
Well, how much would be adequate in your idea? Like forced attrition, I guess, I don't know, 10% per year minimum. That is, 10% of new blood is good. Well, I think even 20% is good.
Fine, because there is an opinion that if the outflow and inflow of people is too big, then the company is not very friendly to its employees.
Well, it depends. Firstly, in each chain, there should be a strong person. If someone is weak, they influence other people. Secondly, they block the growth of people under them. It is super important to have a very fast ladder for talented people to the very top of the company. Therefore, if you keep average people in management, you block potentially more talented people below.
The positive side of this is clear. But there are probably negative sides too. When you have all super achievers in the company, how does it work?
It only gets easier, believe me. The super achievers don't need to be told anything, they don't even need goals to be set. They know everything themselves. They just come to you and say: 'Look, these are the goals, these are the metrics, these are the problems we have, and these are the solutions for your information.' And that's all. As soon as you start working with average people, they come and say: 'Oh, we have these problems, what should we do? How can you help?' You start to interact with them, you're wasting your time.
Well, I understand you, but they are people after all. It is quite difficult to select an entire team that is so close to something ideal. As a leader, you interviewed 10,000 to 20,000 people?
No, no, not all. I always interview key people. When I first started, I interviewed absolutely everyone. Now, only the key ones. And even then, only if we hire someone from outside, but we usually try to promote from within the company.
And you try from the inside. Are there people in the company, besides your co-founder Vlad Yatsenko, who worked there for more than 5 years?
Vlad joined the company in 2015 as CTO. In 2017, he became a co-founder. So he's been working for 10 years now. He's been with me the whole way.
And is there someone else who ran almost that long?
No, there is no one else.
Well, on one hand, it's sad. On the other hand, if you have a football team and you are the manager, you want it to win every year. It's clear that some people come, some go. A champion team won't be champion for 10, 15, or 20 years. That's life.
I read in some interview that you compared this training with super athletes, champions, where there are no places for a balanced life.
Well, of course, the strongest people, the best people, everything about them is aimed at winning. They are thinking about it 24/7. And this gives them a huge advantage over good specialists who work 9 to 5.
Yes. And how do you win this competition? Through conditions, money, stock?
What does it mean you win? Well, you are competing with others. Look around, there's a skyscraper here, General. The French have work-life balance, a 2-hour lunch break. The legislation protects them. They are playing defense; we are on the attack. They have an existing business and infrastructure. We are attacking.
Why do you need this? The question is how to convince people to accept these conditions.
As I already said, in the interview process, we look for high achievers. Plus, we are much more generous with material rewards. People here earn more than in other banks. I read that you can work there for 3-5 years and earn enough. We have many people who are dollar multimillionaires upon exiting. They even sold part of their shares. I looked at the numbers, someone had 80 million dollars, someone had 50 or 80 million dollars for managers. Those who started early, yes, they are not managers now, but they were.
Wait, but the company is not public. When they leave, do you buy back their shares? How does this happen?
Well, yes, we are trying to buy back shares now, but we also allow these secondary sales when they are essentially selling the company's shares. There is a closed market for Revolut, but you can access it if you worked there or if you are a big investor.
Well, yes, yes. And what are the IPO plans? There has been a lot of talk that Revolut will do an IPO sooner or later.
Ah, well, we'll probably do it in 2-3 years.
Do you have any specific vision? If you do it, for what purpose? Is there some mini-goal or priority?
It's not so important, actually. What is it for? So that investors can get an exit, or for raising capital? Well, it's more about trust and reputation. A public company is theoretically trusted more.
There was talk about it. You were asked if you will be based in London, because it's an obvious international financial center, or in the US?
Well, if you analyze carefully where it's more profitable, then in the USA, obviously, it's more profitable because there is more liquidity, so you can get a higher valuation. Plus, there are no taxes on buying and selling shares, whereas in England there is a stamp duty, where you pay half a percent on every transaction. Naturally, it's much less profitable than in the States, where it's free. But at the same time, the fact that we have a relatively small business there doesn't play a big role. It doesn't matter, yes.
There's my desk with a white jacket. Wait, this is it, the office?
In terms of? There is no office at all, not even a large glass office?
So you're sitting right there?
And everyone can approach you during the day and say something? Do people often do that?
No. Well, some do, some don't. They all seem to do what they are supposed to do.
Yes. Well, do you have some kind of subordination? How does it work?
Well, it's all flat. Any person can approach, why not? There are no barriers.
If you want something from a manager, do they report? Do they give feedback?
And they give unpleasant ones?
Yes. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself, but I read a lot about the fact that you have this principle of radical honesty in the company, that you need to speak as directly as possible.
By the way, yes, it is difficult for many people in the corporate world to accept this standard of communication. It's hard for them to switch to that culture. First of all, people below you can speak directly if they don't like something. Secondly, there is no politics, because all KPIs are useless, everything is metrics. People, especially blue managers, can't hide. In regular banks, they can convince that everything is fine when in fact everything is bad, because they have very good communication skills. It's much more difficult for us to do that because we just look at the facts. It doesn't matter how long you are in the office, it doesn't matter if there are renovations or not, it doesn't matter how many people achieved their goals or didn't. If you don't achieve for a long time, then someone else must try.
And here is the place, yes, how many attempts are given? Is there a right to make a mistake?
In principle, I understand everything in 2 weeks. That is, how many is there, two or three times? Man, I understand there might be something there or can't. That is, I give 2 weeks there, others more. Probation.
Well, he's officially been dependent on me for 3 months. Countries. Ah, well, I understand it in about 2 weeks. Cool.
Something like a canteen, right?
Well, there is a canteen on each floor. Yeah. Somewhere it's bigger, somewhere it's smaller.
But I see you don't have any, you know, like that. Well, like in Google, some kind of gaming rooms, pinball table.
But there is no time to play. There is no time. No time to play. Well, there's some installed PlayStation, but I never see something was playing.
In general, people have the impression that very many of us work. That is not it so that the office is somehow tightly packed, yes? So you allow it, right?
Or some kind of policy there, like 2 days off.
No, well, what's the point? All adults, like if they themselves choose where they work better and how much time do they have in the office come. Here. But if the task is not done, then we change people.
Here, well, Knev, you probably know, yes? Yes, that's all here, actually. Financial, yes, when Morganze Brass, I that's where I started 20 years ago building.
Class. Well, I saw both CT Graal and JP Morgan here. JP Morgan is right there right now. And right now, in this building, yes, all the giants are those you tease. And well, we try to tease quietly, so that no one would see. Well, and then you look at the results, and there it is. Well, that's later.
Look, I wanted to ask you about something like a role model. I asked you without a camera: 'Are you watching behind that bank?' And you follow that bank? Is there any at all financial organization that you consider your competitor and which one is here you want to, how to say, overtake or, a there, I don't know, win?
But we have a little bit of a different approach because we look at many countries in general, and the goal is, to be number one in every country. And, naturally, in different countries there will be different players. And we set goals so that, accordingly, I don't know in this country we are number one, now we are number three, we want to be number one and so on.
Number one for what? By assets, by number of clients, by...
Well, when we just come in, when we're just entering, it's more according to height. So, in terms of growth, essentially, how much, what the number of clients coming to us every day, how many accounts do we open? Yes. That's when it's already more a stable market for us, that's when we look more there, I don't know, there it is maybe banshee, maybe what is the profitability?
Well, if we take, for example, where we are in England, who is who for you would be the main competitor?
UK and Ireland, uh this is probably Monza. Mona, yes.
Yes. That is, you still yourself are you comparing with non-banks?
Why not with Barclays, not with HSBC?
Because we have already overtaken them opening of accounts. Yes, but not by assets, not by not on the asset side, well, because, well, for now we do not have a credit business in England. Well, and not for clients.
By clients Barknut 20 million in England, probably. Yes. Yes. That is to say, after all...
So, what if we take the States, for example?
States. Well, we're looking more at GP Morgan, on Chase. Well, this is just a classic, more classic player.
Well, wait, 80 million in total, right? Cheza. Well, probably yes. Well, that is, there is a chase in everyone, that is, if you go there, I don't know, in a village there in Arizona, uh, then it will be there there, I don't know, Starbucks, uh some Safeway and JP Morgan, well, in meaning...
Yes, yes, yes. Well, here we are in America, whose we're looking, yes. So you want them, so to speak, to overtake in terms of growth rate. Well, there is a goal, yes.
Yeah. But still without offices, everything is virtual.
