President of National Fuel Gas Distribution Corporation, NATIONAL FUEL GAS CO
Donna DeCarolis, National Fuel Gas president, discusses energy policies as ’25 looms.
About Donna Decarolis
Donna DeCarolis, president of National Fuel Gas Distribution Corporation, has been active in community and policy discussions regarding energy in Western New York. In a December 2024 interview, she stated that proposals to allow the discontinuation of gas service to existing customers were "a bad proposal" and said her company advocated for customers to be able to keep their gas service. She argued that policies pushing electrification mandates "don't make sense" for Western New York, noting that the grid would need to be "quadrupled" to electrify heat. DeCarolis has promoted a website called "betterplannobans.com" to raise awareness about energy policy proposals, saying she believes "the average consumer doesn't know what's being proposed." DeCarolis has also highlighted the company's investments in system modernization and its work on emerging energy technologies. In a 2022 interview, she described the energy sector as undergoing a transition and said National Fuel engineers are working on making systems "hydrogen ready" and exploring renewable natural gas and carbon capture. She has emphasized the company's community involvement, including a program called "Days of Doing" that offers employees a paid day off for volunteer work. DeCarolis serves on the board of the Buffalo Niagara Partnership, which she called "the gold standard of chambers" in the region.
Transcript (23 segments)
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Brenda OAS0:05
Hello and welcome to another edition of In the Spotlight. I'm Brenda OAS and delighted to welcome this month Donna Decarolis, who is the president of National Fuel Gas Distribution Corporation. Well, that's quite a mouthful, Donna.
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Donna Decarolis0:16
Yes, it is. Well said, Brenda. Thank you, and welcome. Thank you so nice to have you with us in the spotlight.
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Brenda OAS0:23
You were kind enough to come here at least twice before to speak to our Government Affairs Committee in the previous few months, and I know it's important for you to have community outreach. Can you tell us first of all what's the difference between your company, your title, and the utility itself?
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Donna Decarolis0:37
Yes, so National Fuel Distribution Corp, we are the utility. So we're the ones that most people think of when they think of Western New York's gas utility. But we are a wholly owned subsidiary of National Fuel Gas Company, which is publicly traded and has operations in all aspects of the natural gas business. So it has a drilling subsidiary, an interstate pipeline and storage subsidiary, a gathering business, and then the utility. So the utility is the Western New York entity that's my group, and we're the ones that provide heat and warmth to most of the 1.6 million people in our Western New York region.
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Brenda OAS1:17
I think sometimes the number is staggering. I don't think people realize how many. And I was looking at your website and some information that you had sent me, and speaking of numbers, 35% to 55% colder in Western New York versus the cold weather downstate. There are always so many differences in comparisons between Western New York and downstate, no matter whether it's real estate or anything else. But that was shocking to me. Obviously I've lived here for the majority of my life, and there's a significant difference. So how does that impact what you do?
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Donna Decarolis1:47
Yeah, and I think a lot of what I've been doing these last few years, Brenda, is working on energy policy statewide. As there was a law that was passed in 2019, the CLCPA, the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act, with very strict mandates about where we have to go on lowering greenhouse gas emissions and getting the grid all generated by renewables and zero emission by 2040. So all these policies that have been developed in Albany are really being pushed by downstate interests where a lot of folks don't really own homes, the weather is not as cold as you mentioned here in Western New York. On a cold winter day, roughly 94% of the energy that somebody uses in their home is natural gas. So we think these policies that are pushing towards electrification mandates, especially for Western New York, just don't make sense.
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Brenda OAS2:42
Well, and certainly Governor Hochul understands what the weather is like in Western New York. Has she been an advocate in that respect?
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Donna Decarolis2:48
I think what we're seeing from the governor's office is really a concern about affordability. I think it's becoming more and more clear that policies that are going to have mandates might not be easily affordable by average consumers. And I think what we're hearing out of her office more so than anything is a concern about affordability. Now what it will mean for these other energy policies, I think it's too soon to say. We have a whole new year starting in 2025, and I think we'll get a better sense of it when she starts with her State of the State address in January, right around the corner.
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Brenda OAS3:22
Of course, and I know it got everybody's attention, and that's why you were kind enough to come in and speak to our Government Affairs Committee. There is a real buzz in the real estate community about this push for natural gas or just electricity, I should say. Everybody was talking about you're going to have to get rid of your gas stoves and take out gas furnaces, etc. Where does that stand at this moment?
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Donna Decarolis3:43
Right, so just a little bit of history. Last year in 2023, it started with the State of the State address. First there was a ban being proposed by the governor starting in 2030: if your heating equipment or your water heater were to break in your home, then you would have to electrify it. That was proposed and it was not ultimately passed. What was proposed and did pass is the All-Electric New Construction Act, and so that says that new construction must be zero emissions for residential starting in 2026. So these are things that did pass this year. Earlier in the year, there were proposals that weren't as significant as those outright bans, but were saying that our regulator, the Public Service Commission, could allow gas service to be discontinued to existing customers. We thought that was a bad proposal, so we advocated for customers to be able to keep their gas service if they have it today. So that's kind of where we are today. We don't know what's going to be proposed for next year.
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Brenda OAS4:49
And you continue to lobby to try to advocate for the ability for customers to have choice, to have multiple forms of energy to their homes and businesses. That's the whole point of your conversations in the community, right? I know you're doing at least three different ones which will have gone by by the time this airs in December. Why is it so important? Is it what you said about educating consumers and political officials?
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Donna Decarolis5:10
Yes, absolutely, Brenda. I also think we really have this view that we don't think the average consumer knows what's being proposed. So I think it's also important to build awareness that energy policy is really something that impacts all of us. We want people to be aware, and then if they have a concern, voice that concern. That's really what we want to do.
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Brenda OAS5:32
The proposed legislation, Donna, you mentioned about that. I had often heard the year 2030 bandied about. Is that another sort of deadline that you're looking at? Why is that a significant year?
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Donna Decarolis5:41
So the original climate law that was passed in 2019 has two things that are supposed to happen by 2030. One is that by 2030, all of the power being generated in New York is supposed to be generated with renewable energy sources. Where are we today on that? Right now, about half of the power generated in New York is generated with natural gas and other fuels, primarily natural gas. We're only at 29% renewable, and here it is 2024, and we need to get to 70% by 2030. The other key element is greenhouse gas emissions economy-wide for New York state is supposed to be reduced 40% by 2030 compared to a 1990 baseline. So far we've only reduced 10%, so we've got to get from 10% to 40% in the next five years. There are policies being considered to try to accelerate that, including the potential for a carbon tax. So these are all things that 2030 is coming fast. I think New York state has acknowledged it's not going to reach those renewable goals. We're not going to get from 29% to 70% in the next five years. It's unrealistic. So what do we do about the other policies? That's what really remains to be seen.
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Brenda OAS6:55
Those numbers must be in your mind all the time. It's amazing. Well, a simple question for people who really don't understand this: why can't we electrify it completely, Donna?
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Donna Decarolis7:06
Yeah, and I think that's a great question. You are asking a natural gas utility, so we have to keep that in mind, of course. But we talk to National Grid about this, the electric utility here regionally. During the years that we studied this, I was on the statewide Climate Action Council. They had public meetings about the plan, and National Grid said during those meetings that we can electrify, but over what time frame and at what cost will anybody be able to afford it? In Western New York, they did this study for us. We would have to quadruple the grid just in Western New York to electrify heat. If you think about how cold it gets and having to have enough electricity on hand to generate that much heat from electricity, it's just staggering. So we'd have to quadruple the grid, and the grid as it is today is fragile at times. So these are the concerns that we have. We need policies that people can afford and that will have them be able to have reliable energy.
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Brenda OAS8:07
With about 30 seconds left here, down the pathway for Western New York, I saw a title in one of your slides. What does that mean?
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Donna Decarolis8:14
We just think we need all options, Brenda. The pathway we think is you can use energy efficiency today. We all know that if you use less energy, you save money and you reduce emissions immediately. Pathways that include lowering your usage, hybrid heating like a hybrid vehicle where you can use either fuel source in your home, you could use gas or electricity for heating. These are pathways that we think are important, and we think that we can make progress for consumers and for the state. People like to have choices, and we want two forms of energy in our homes, especially when we have power outages.
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Brenda OAS8:48
No question about that, Donna. As we wrap up officially, how can people reach you or the folks at National Fuel?
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Donna Decarolis8:55
Yeah, we have a website called betterplannobans.com. That's a good place to go to see what's going on. I can get you that website for folks to put in.
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Brenda OAS9:08
That would be perfect. Great. Better Plan No Bans. I love the rhyme. It helps it stand in your mind. Excellent. Donna Decarolis, thank you so much for coming in. It's always an education. Keep up the good work. I wish you a happy and healthy 2025, to you and yours.
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Donna Decarolis9:23
Thank you. Thank you very much.
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Brenda OAS9:27
That'll put a wrap on this edition of In the Spotlight. We'll see you next month. Thanks for watching.