Pandora takes the stage.
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Welcome to News. We interrupt our regular programming to take you live to Berlin where Germany is hosting a second day of peace talks on Ukraine. Chancellor Mance and the Ukrainian President Walinski are giving a press conference. Let's listen in.
Thank you for the good deliberations that we've had in the last few days. We have developed a huge diplomatic dynamism, perhaps the greatest dynamism since the war began on the 24th of February 2022. We have a real opportunity for a peace process for Ukraine, but it's still just a tender plant. We need to take care of it, but it is a real opportunity. In the last weeks and days, we have worked very hard to reach and pave the way for a ceasefire. We know the price of war and the time has come to talk about the price of peace. Questions of security guarantees, ceding territory are not a security mechanism to keep the peace. Yesterday and today we have had some intense discussions between Ukrainians, Americans and Europeans. Stephen Witkov and Jared Kushner, the two special envoys sent by US President Trump, have played a key role in this process. I want to say that very clearly. Without their tireless efforts and without the efforts made by US President Trump, we would never have generated the positive dynamism that we are experiencing in these days and hours. There are few EU heads of state and government that I'll be welcoming in the chancellor's office soon to discuss some of these issues. Apart from President Zelenskyy and myself, French President and British Prime Minister will be there, but also Donald Tusk, Giorgia Meloni, Alexander, and the NATO head Mark Rutte, as well as Ms. von der Leyen will be there, and Mr. Witkov and Kushner will be there. So this is an ambitious program. Russia is playing for time by asserting its maximum requests. At the same time, it is continuing its war against Ukraine. But we're not going to let ourselves be put off by this. We're pursuing five goals that we have agreed on between all of us here. After four years of war, we want a ceasefire that preserves the sovereignty of the Ukrainian state. And this ceasefire must be supported by substantial legal and material guarantees of both the EU and the USA. The legal and material guarantees that the US have put on the table here in Berlin is really considerable. This is huge progress and I welcome it very much. Thirdly, we are working together on a ceasefire between Ukrainians, Americans, and the Europeans. Yesterday and today, this remains our agreement, our common understanding, and our common success. Fourthly, this ceasefire must ensure that the unity of the EU and NATO must not be infringed on. We must come together even stronger than in the past. And fifthly, the ceasefire must preserve the Ukrainian perspective and make it possible for Ukraine to rebuild. Ukrainians see that that way, as do the Americans, as do the Europeans. One of the key questions remaining is which territorial regulation we could arrive at. And this is a question that only the European people can answer and the Ukrainian president who is defending his territory here. And let me say it is the Ukrainian people who have fought bitterly for the last four years for their territory. So it must be the Ukrainians who decide on any ceding or not ceding of territory to Russia. Now yesterday and today we've made important progress in terms of agreeing our negotiation position in very confidential rounds. We have discussed where we stand and we have listened closely to one another and I very much hope this evening that we will achieve further progress and that we will close ranks between Ukraine, Europe and the US. We want to push Moscow to stop playing for time and to work towards a ceasefire as well. So we as Europeans will be stepping up the pressure on Russia to this end. We are continuing to work to ensure that the frozen Russian assets in the EU are used for Ukraine. This would be an additional level of security. We've made an initial step. These assets have been immobilized on a longer term in Europe. Now, at the European Council on Thursday, we want to agree on this proposal which I put forward. It's obviously important to say that Belgium has its own concerns and we have to do justice to everybody's concerns here. Germany wants to help Ukraine as one of its closest partners. The German government budget has earmarked significant sums to support Ukraine. And at the German-Ukrainian business forum that we both just attended, we came up with a 10-point plan for cooperating in the defense industries between Germany and Ukraine for mutual benefit. We'll be discussing today how to strike a good balance between European aid and contracts to European companies. On this note then, I think it's the first time since the 24th of February 2022 we see a real opportunity to pave the way towards peace. We want to go down that path with you as Ukrainians, with our European neighbors, and with the United States of America. And I believe we are well on the way to getting there. We've certainly taken a significant step, and I expect further steps this evening. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank Germany for giving me the opportunity to activate our work towards peace. These are important days where we are hopefully really making progress. I hope that you can help us to bring peace even closer to us. Germany and the German chancellor are a huge support for us, both Ukraine and the people who live in it, and we want to live an ordinary life and it's worth fighting for that. But unfortunately, it is the case that the Ukrainians in the 21st century have to defend their rights with weapons, their right to live in liberty in Europe in a European manner. And we are fighting particularly within the framework of negotiations. Ukraine has a justifiable interest. We feel we are being heard and we feel our partners are prepared to support us. Security guarantees are crucial and we need to work on that. During the negotiations, I emphasized that security guarantees of this kind must be in place and must work, not least in the interest of Europe, but of course, first and foremost for Ukraine. I want to thank the German chancellor and everyone else here. I also want to thank the US American team. We negotiated for five hours yesterday and today we had a number of rounds of negotiations. They are continuing. The negotiations were very fact-based. The dialogue with the American side, with our US colleagues, is continuing almost around the clock. We are working at achieving a result that respects the people of Ukraine. Naturally, there are very difficult issues that we have to deal with, particularly those regarding territorial issues. It is important for all of us to work on this issue to ensure that we regulate these questions in the fairest possible manner. There are various different positions on territory, but I think it's extremely important to have an opportunity to present the Ukrainian side, which I've had. Everyone is working hard and productively to find a good result on the basis of respect for Ukraine. And Ukraine in its turn is prepared to continue to work in a fair and constructive manner in order to achieve a final result. We are coordinating with the German chancellor. Thank you for that. We're also coordinating with our other European partners and heads of state and government, and the bilateral plan that we had was that we take part in the German-Ukrainian business forum, which we did. These are our common projects, German and Ukrainian projects, and they will help us in Ukraine and in turn that will help Germany. Our technologies and our skill sets can be shared with Germany and the other way around. It's important that we not just strengthen Ukraine but strengthen Europe as well, and the cooperation between our countries must be structured such that in the energy industry we make progress on both sides. We're going to be pursuing an export hub in the German capital in order to bring together our findings, not least when it comes to the production of drones. Now, every day we have to defend our cities and our positions in armed conflict. And it's important that we strengthen our air defense resilience. So that's important that we continue to make progress in this area next year. We hope that Germany will continue to take its rational position when it comes to freezing Russian assets in Europe, and that this immobilization can be carried out on a longer term now is a very good thing. We hope this is passed. This will be an option for supporting Ukraine, not just protecting Ukraine from attacks from Russia, but also what happens in the country long term, because this war with Russia must come to an end because naturally it would be fair if the country that instigated this conflict suffers the most. And that's why it's fair to freeze these Russian assets long-term in order to be able to balance them against future reparations. Glory to Ukraine.
From Mr. Witkov has suggested that it might well be possible to achieve serious progress. Can you give us some indications of what issues you've made progress on? And have you referred to territorial concessions or lack thereof? And then a question to Mr. Matt. Now, Italy has joined forces with Belgium and has expressed its reservations. So have Bulgaria. So has Malta when it comes to using frozen Russian assets for Ukrainian defense. What do you think are the opportunities and how likely is it that there will be an agreement reached on Thursday in Brussels?
Well, thank you very much for the question. It was an initial meeting. It's the first meeting in this context in this constellation with Mr. Kushner and Mr. Witkov, i.e., with a team from the US. Meetings like this were always carried out by our team together with representatives of the European states, the security staff, and this team had been to Russia before. I always wanted this team to come to Ukraine, but I was perfectly willing to come here if it should not be possible for them to come to Ukraine. So we had the opportunity to meet and speak for a number of hours, and we did indeed make progress in a number of areas. I can say that the results and how they will be perceived from the aggressor side is something I cannot predict, of course, but what was important to me is that we were heard. Now naturally, I touched on the details of this war, and I think the US colleagues heard that had we had a meeting earlier, we might well have achieved results earlier, but I'm still very grateful that they came here and that we were able to achieve something together and tackle some of the questions that I believe are destructive and won't really help. Those are ones that I would rather not see in the next version of the documents we're negotiating on. An important question is the respect of Ukraine. The question of territory is an extremely painful issue for us. I mean, Russia has its own list of wishes. You know, obviously we know exactly what they want and we understand it. You know, whether you believe it or not, it is the case that we know what they want. It's hardly a secret what the Russian side wants. But I believe that the position of Ukraine is very clear without any ifs, ands, or buts. And it was very important to me that we communicate our side to the US team very clearly and very openly. And I'm very grateful that we really listened to one another. I believe that the US side as brokers will be suggesting a number of different steps in order to be able to reach some kind of a consensus. And in these issues, I naturally very much hope that the USA will continue its role as a mediator. That would be helpful in the future. And when it comes to rebuilding Ukraine and the financing that Ukraine will need to do that and who has to pay for what compromises, there are going to be, there certainly has to be some kind of a dialogue here and a real compromise, and we will do everything we can in order to find a very clear response in terms of security guarantees and financing, possible reparations, who has to pay for what. You know, we'll have to understand what the sources of financing could be. Where will this money come from? And with reference to the frozen Russian assets in Europe, I do think that is a potential source. There are framework agreements that are being envisaged with reference to security guarantees, and in many different ranges we've already made progress, and I'm grateful for that. Now with reference to the frozen Russian assets, there's one thing I'd like to say about that. Now we have already made one decision, and this decision from last week is that the Russian assets will be frozen long term in Europe. So they'll be immobilized. That means that the Russian central bank and the Russian state will have no access to these assets in the long term. Now the question of which financing we will generate from that for the future financing of Ukraine is something we're going to continue to discuss, and we'll decide on Thursday. We've got Article 122 which allows a decision on this with a qualified majority. It is only on the basis of Article 122 of the EU treaty that we'll be able to agree on this, and there are no other decisions that we can take except on this article. Then the use of funding from the pandemic time or releasing European bonds are things that require consensus, and we're not going to get this consensus within some of the EU member states. So that means we can only work with a qualified majority and take a decision on that both in terms of the agreement and the use thereof, and that's what we'll be discussing in the EU in the near future. I understand the concerns. I do not share the concerns, but I take them seriously, and I very much hope that Belgium, the country most impacted on this decision, will come a step in the right direction with us. Again, it would be expedient to be able to support Ukraine so that Ukraine can defend itself moving forward. And it would send a very clear signal to Russia that we need to end this war.
Chancellor, Mr. Zelenskyy, and from the DPA, Mr. Zelenskyy, is it true that the EU are calling on Ukraine to cede territories in Donbas that have not yet been occupied by Russia? And a question to the chancellor and to the president, both of you, when it comes to the question of security guarantees, is it conceivable that there will be NATO troops or EU troops on a front line as boots on the ground and a security guarantee? A question that many people are interested in. Will there be a ceasefire by Christmas in Ukraine?
Well, we had a little bit of a technical difficulty there with the interpretation, but to respond to that question, I'd like to say that we have great respect for the US delegation. I don't have a sense that the US demanded something of us. I see the US as a strategic partner. And so the question regarding territorial concessions to Russia, well, I mean, I'm well aware of what the Russian demands are and obviously I couldn't demand anything of the US delegation. I merely communicated to the special envoys what our point of view is and asked them to communicate that to the Russian side. As I said, we are aware of what the Russian demands are, what their aims are, and we are making efforts to depict our position. I'm very grateful that we are being heard and in this extremely sensitive question of territorial concessions during the dialogue. We had a similar view on this. You have a second question though, the question of boots on the ground on the front line as part of security guarantees and whether there will be troops present in Ukraine on the front line. Well, we're talking about security guarantees. And my question is, you know, before we make any steps on the battlefield, we have to have a very clear awareness of what the security guarantees are going to be before we're going to do anything differently on the battlefield. We are not assuming that NATO membership is really an option. I mean, it would have been clear how NATO membership could have worked for Ukraine anyway. From the US side, we have now heard that there will be security guarantees from the US that are similar to NATO's collective defense pledge, Article 5, and that's a first step. Then the question of monitoring a ceasefire. I would say this is the very foundation for security guarantees because the question is who's going to undertake such monitoring? What sanctioned steps will there be if the monitoring mission is disturbed in some ways and unable to do its job? The agreement that we've reached so far is that we need to address these questions and the actual question of who's going to be on the contact line. If there's a ceasefire, will they be soldiers from any particular country, whether there'll be technical monitoring, these are all things that would need to be discussed in a military context, and they are the professionals in this area and will be able to suggest something for negotiations. So, in response to the security guarantees, Mr. length. I referred to this already in my previous remarks when I talked about the agreement that we have reached so far that we would need to have substantial material guarantees from the US and from Europe. Now this is a significant substantial agreement that we have not had in the past. Both the Europeans and the Americans are prepared to do this, to provide these, and Mr. Zelenskyy referred to security guarantees resembling NATO's collective defense pledge, and I would say that is significant progress, and the US American side also expressed their commitment legally and generally to support this. Now, let me just say we're not going to be repeating the mistakes we made in the Minsk Accords. There needs to be security guarantee to the Ukrainians to ensure such a ceasefire. And what exactly this is going to mean and how we're going to spell this out is something for the future. But as I said, both the US and the Europeans are behind these security guarantees. So they'll have to be comprehensive security guarantees that we will agree on in detail in the future. At the moment, there's no point speculating about what that might pan out as being and what it would mean for each country involved in providing these security guarantees. But if we get to that point and we achieve a ceasefire, Ukraine will have defense capabilities not just on its own but also the states that support it. So that's got to be good news, and this depends entirely on the Russian side. Yesterday and today we have reached common proposals from Ukraine, US, and Europe rather. So it's just down to Russia whether or not we manage to achieve a ceasefire by Christmas or not. I'd like to use this opportunity to say in no uncertain terms to the Russian government and the Russian president, please leave the Ukrainian people in peace over Christmas because the bombing has continued almost without exception against hospitals, nurseries, energy infrastructure. The bombs are falling and this is terrorism against the civilians. And perhaps the Russian government still has a remnant of humanity and will leave the Ukrainians in peace over Christmas at least, and that could perhaps be the start of reasonable constructive conversations for reaching peace in Ukraine. Thank you very much.
And if you're joining us just now, that was a press conference between German Chancellor Mance and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. Both are holding a second day of peace talks here in Berlin before a meeting with European leaders at the heads of NATO and the European Commission. Mance talked about positive dynamism in the peace process. Zelenskyy on the other hand said there was still work to be done, for example on the key issue of security guarantees and reparations. He also thanked US negotiators for what he called fact-based talks over the past two days. Let's go straight to Ukraine now where this meeting is of course being followed very very closely. Nick Connelly is standing by for us in Kyiv. Nick, you followed many of these pressers for us over the past years. What stood out to you in this one?
Well, certainly this wasn't very contentious because essentially Zelenskyy and Mance are on the same page. It would have been a very different story if you'd had a representative of Donald Trump's team in the room with them there. I think the most interesting thing was what we just at the end there heard from Mance about basically calling on the Russians to organize some kind of ceasefire over Christmas at least. That is basically the Europeans trying to put the ball back into the Americans' and Russians' court to say Donald Trump wants this over by Christmas, then let the Russians stop bombing at least civilian infrastructure over the Christmas period. We've seen attempts to do that in the past that have never worked for more than a couple of hours. But it is an attempt to force the Russians to stop firing, to basically maybe even a more generalized ceasefire before the rest is all sorted out. Now time and time again the Russians have said we are not going to do any kind of ceasefire before basically Ukraine capitulates or at least agrees to all our maximalist demands, but this is an attempt by the Europeans I guess to call out also to the man in the White House and to say look, this is about ending the killing, tell your friends in Russia to stop doing this. They are going to listen to you, why not push them to do that? So that's the kind of interpretation when you look at Ukrainian social media how people read those words. There's also an interesting bit from President Zelenskyy kind of aside where he said it was very good to have direct contact with Witkoff and Kushner and then made a kind of slight aside remark saying well we could have got a lot further in a lot less time had they talked to me directly before. Obviously the situation that has been prevalent up till now was that Kushner and Witkoff spoke to the Russians, spoke to the Europeans maybe, but never to the Ukrainians. That was all at a kind of lower more technical level, and the Ukrainians had General Keith Kellogg, the Ukraine emissary, to talk who as we now understand does have a lot less weight in Trump world than Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner.
No major announcements at this press conference, but we have seen some movement on the Ukrainian side in Ukraine's position over these past 48 hours. Can you walk us through what changed and what the picture looks like today?
So, I think the major potential concession there is NATO membership. Ukraine has wanted to be in NATO for a very long time. It's even in the constitution that that is the direction that Ukraine is going into. But we've heard Zelenskyy say, well, if you provide us with legally binding security guarantees from the US as other countries like Japan or South Korea have that aren't part of NATO obviously, then that could be an alternative. But that is still a very big ask. That is a lot more than Ukraine has ever got before and it would need lawmakers in the US to agree to it. Maybe they would ask something similar from the Europeans as well. So, it's basically lots of the same guarantees that you would get through NATO, but just without the kind of NATO badge on it. Potentially, that is something that allows the Russians to save face and to say, 'Look, we've got this win.' But I doubt it'll be enough to convince the Russian side to agree to this. The really big issue that is unresolved is territory. As we understand, the Americans have been pushing the Ukrainians still to withdraw from the bits of Donetsk region, places like Kramatorsk, they still control. And there's been some kind of talk of a fudge, not quite letting the Russian army roll in, but having maybe a demilitarized zone, some kind of free trade zone. The Russians saying that maybe they would send the police in rather than army. That is not something that people here in Ukraine believe. Firstly, that is an area that is very well-defendable compared to open countryside. So if Ukraine leaves that area, it is going to be very vulnerable to attack along the kind of new front lines as it were. Also, it's a question of trust between political decision makers and the armies. Ukrainian troops have lost thousands of lives protecting that region now since 2014 and it would likely create a political crisis after any kind of ceasefire with those soldiers asking Zelenskyy why he agreed to this. And I think that is exactly the kind of political crisis that the Russians are hoping to provoke by this. So that is still far from resolved. There is no sense here that Zelenskyy will be allowed to agree to that by Ukrainian public opinion. So maybe lots of kind of less controversial things have been agreed on, but the last couple of inches to a deal will be the most difficult and most people here are not convinced that it's going to go anywhere.
