We had so much tariff threats and tariffs implemented in 25. It didn't make our business worse than the year before. Trade will continue and I will keep saying trade is like water flowing from the mountain. Nothing can stop it.
I've been away for two years. I come back and I feel there's a real sense of capacity constraint in the infrastructure. Are you experiencing that in Dubai?
We deal with it. We have traffic and the government investing close to over a hundred billion dollars today in new roads, in new metro expansion. You heard of the Etihad Rail which was going to continue, to start in this year. That means there'll be less people on the road. I tell you, if it goes to Abu Dhabi I wouldn't drive. I will take the train.
DP World. They handle 11% of the container flow around the world. They're present in 85 countries, six continents, and more than 90 terminals. This is a global ports and logistics business. The chairman and group CEO is Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem. He joins us today on the Inside Brief. Chairman, welcome to the show. Good to see you.
2026 kicked off with quite a bang, didn't it? Trump taking Maduro to New York, control of Venezuela, threatening Greenland. From where you sit, assess the moves and the potential risks or impact to global trade. Good day, sir.
Thank you very much. Interesting times, of course, but in our business, running ports around the world, we've seen many crises. This is not the worst one. These are potential dangers. Look at Venezuela, it's more localized actually. Whatever happened in Venezuela is not happening in this area. It's more localized. I don't believe it's going to affect our business. Actually, it's a country we would love to do business with. Today it's not part of our routes. But we look at every year, you know, with caution all the time of what could go wrong. But that doesn't stop us from continuing our business. We have a business to run. A lot of time I read articles that expect the business to worsen or actually it is already bad, but when I look at our numbers in all around the world, they all agree, they're all improving. So sometimes a lot of emotion in whatever somebody is writing about rather than actual things.
So if the lights are flashing green, how much volume do you expect with that outlook to carry this year?
Well, we have a budget expecting to do similar to last year at least. I say that because we have some ports going to open, we have some expansion finishing, we have commitments with shipping lines who want to increase their business. So when I'm talking about Israel, numbers that we handle, unexpected numbers that are already coming to us.
So you don't think that this year we pay the price for tariff wars that rose in 2025?
Actually, we had so much tariff threats and tariffs implemented in 25. It didn't make our business worse than the year before. Trade will continue and I will keep saying trade is like water flowing from the mountain. Nothing can stop it.
Well, the one big theme during this new Trump era is spheres of influence to the east and to the west. That's what the world and political leaders and CEOs like you are grappling with. How does that east-west spheres of influence impact your thinking in regards to trade and where you want to deploy?
Look, when you look at trade, you look at where the weight is. Look at India. India today has a huge growth simply because India, 1.4 billion people, their trade is in containers, 15 million. China, 1.4 billion, and their trade is over 100 million. So India has so much potential for growth and that's why it is reflected in how much we invest in India. Indonesia is a country that has huge population and huge potential and opportunities. So you see the business is growing. We're not looking at what politicians are deciding. We look at what the potential in real numbers. Latin America, Brazil, against all expectation, people thought the business is going to be bad. Actually, in our port we are so busy we have to expand. We never thought we'll expand for 10 years and now we're doing a huge expansion. UK, we have a port where we just celebrated the fourth terminal and now we have to put three more terminal because business is big. So when you ask an economist, he'll tell you UK business is bad.
What do you say to the detractors that are so down on the United Kingdom and that they're finished and they need regime change? What do you say to those people?
No, I'm telling you. So people keep saying well business is bad, companies are moving, and at the same time we are approving expansion. It is not expansion for expectation, expansion for dealing with existing business. Our customers, the shipping lines, are demanding we have facilities. So there is growth.
Do you see more opportunities in the UK for you?
Definitely. You see today there's more need into having more industrial parks especially in Europe and UK. And the advantages with all the issues with China, I'm not talking about political issues. I'm talking about cost of production, I'm talking about certain custom duties that are today applied to China plus one. That gives opportunities for product to be produced in other locations. UK will be a candidate. Many European countries will be a candidate simply because whatever they produce today is not the old industry. There's no assembly lines anymore. There's no things that are produced by hand. Remember in the 50s, all the industries were in the west. Manchester was the capital of textiles and it moved out for cheap labor. But the industry today is not cheap labor. The industry today is the industry of the mind. A lot of product today are not made by hand. They are made by machines. Machines that are created by man. And so when you see a television made in Japan, I always insist I want to buy a TV made in Japan. And then when I see made in Malaysia, I get concerned. And when I ask Sony for example, they say no it is not made in Malaysia. It's made in Sony because the machine is made in Sony. When we make in Indonesia it is the same machine. So what does the manufacturer need? They need engineers, smart, innovative people who run these machines. They are available in UK. They're the people who will graduate from universities.
Well, that's going to be a resounding voice and a vote that I'm sure the administration will wrap their arms around when they hear this. I want to take you back to the middle of last year and I want to understand how you managed the business. Lots of people that I speak to in financial markets panicked and withdrew their money. You say the flow of trade continued but take us inside that period of time during Liberation Week when those tariffs were announced. Did you have a situation room meeting? Did you have a sudden conference on how to deal with the situation?
Listen, first of all, we are not a listed company. So what happens in the stock market as a company doesn't bother me. Second, whatever happens in the stock market, the effect is not going to be immediate. You have cargo already moving somewhere. You have somebody producing. You have somebody demanding. You have somebody consuming. Look, China, everyone talks about China and says the growth is down. China market is basically nobody is buying and China growth is only 5%. But they neglect to say that China had double-digit growth when their trade was 10 trillion. But how important is it that Xi Jinping sticks to that 5% growth? Because that's what a lot of the conversations are around that he needs to stick with that. How important is that for global trade and the flow that you see?
No, you see, let me finish please. When they had 10 trillion trade, they had 10%. Now they have 5%. But they have a 23 trillion of trade. Five and a half percent of 23 is more than 10% of 10 trillion. Now, what is it to China? China cannot afford high growth because it will put demand on the labor and the labor cost will increase. So China is always very wise when saying less is going to be 5%. For them that's good. They cannot manufacture more in China. A lot is manufactured in Vietnam, exported to China. So when the West looks at countries, they look with their own eyes. You should look with the Chinese eye. You should look at what they are doing. It's a country that knows how to manage their economy. Every expectation about China to collapse in whatever field, it didn't happen. It's all predicted. And I'm not defending China but we are doing business in China. We're doing business in the Far East. So what happened in the crash in the stock market is not an immediate effect on financial markets, yes on banks, yes on borrowings, but not on physical cargo that is in a ship. So we don't say, oh wow, the crash in the market, let's go and meet and decide what to do. We meet to decide how to make sure we have the cargo moving. For example, we had an emergency meeting during COVID because suddenly people cannot meet, people cannot leave their homes. So we decided to move accommodation for workers inside the port so that we don't get disrupted. We don't want disruption. Physical issues affect us like for example stranded vessels in the Suez Canal, 40 hours translated to four months of delay of cargo. That's a problem. That's where we need to deal with. But life is going on and continues and disruptions are expected. Speed bumps in the way. It slows you down somewhere but you continue to overcome it.
You've managed quite a few bumps in the road through your tenure here. Let's talk about Dubai and the UAE. The business here, you and Sir Tim Clark, you're the economic macro levers of this economy. 35% of the economy of Dubai is in one way or another tied to DP World. I've been away for two years. I come back and I feel there's a real sense of capacity constraint in the infrastructure. Are you experiencing that in Dubai?
We deal with it. We have traffic and the government investing close to over a hundred billion dollars today in new roads, in new metro expansion. You heard of the Etihad Rail which was going to continue, to start in this year. That means there'll be less people on the road. I tell you, if it goes to Abu Dhabi I wouldn't drive. I will take the train. You and me, I'll take you wherever I need to go. I don't want to drive and then have a place to park. Rails are missing and today passenger rails will help reduce traffic. But you drive on Sheikh Zayed Road, what do you see today? You see new roads coming out to remove congestion. There is a huge congestion in LA and now they are diverting the road. So we're spending money, we're not waiting to say, oh, let's see how we deal with this traffic. Sheikh Mohammed drives around and sees traffic and calls RTA and says we should do something.
Do you promise to take me on the first rail trip that you make on Etihad Rail to Abu Dhabi? Can we go together?
DWC, the new airport. Its expansion is set to be delivered in the early 2030s. We are very close where we're physically situated today. It's your headquarters, it's in Jebel Ali. How will that proximity to the newly expanded DWC, what will that mean for DP World?
I think it means more for Dubai and Dubai airport because in the area they are in they can't expand. So I believe I heard that they're going to have a high-speed rail to connect from Dubai. I heard that. I don't know whether that is real or not but definitely want people to be able to reach faster. The advantage I see is when Expo was held, they spent money on roads. That's why our headquarters is going to be at Expo because it is so easy to go from Sheikh Zayed Road. I think from my home it's only 20 minutes to the office at Expo from Jebel Ali, which is amazing.
That's the new 20 minutes.
Now when you look at the port, of course, the airport in proximity to the port is going to be good because a lot of cargo handled by the airlines, the Asian airlines now will be closer to us. So it will make the traffic less because we have some time to take cargo from here to be shipped by air and vice versa. So as far as sea-air traffic, it's going to be amazing. Al Maktoum to Jebel Ali port will be almost the fastest highway of cargo connection, seamless connection between a ship and a plane. And I think that'll be an advantage for us, of course.
But you're going to have first-mover advantage. Let's talk about how you're going to grow the business. I went back in time, 2006 you bought P&O. Part of that deal was to get access to US ports. There was a lot of political pushback, wasn't there? That didn't happen. There was a groundswell against you. Would you seriously consider making another big play to get your hands on some big ports in the United States?
Well, I'll correct you. The reason we acquired P&O is not to get access to American ports. They are always available. We can always go there. Actually, it was part of the deal, 5% of the deal was ports in America. And for whatever reason happened, we as businessmen said we will withdraw, we'll sell it, because we're not politicians. We don't want to be in this political dispute regarding a business when we are really experts in running ports. Politics and so, we solved it. But if an opportunity comes to be in the States, we will. We already have invested in the States in Synchro, which is a big logistics company. We have a logistics park in Charleston that is already up and running. And we are looking at opportunities in the States. If it comes, of course we will invest.
Do you think the political atmosphere is different now? We have a Trump administration that's very friendly towards the United Arab Emirates. Do you think the temperature is different? Could it make it easier for you?
Yes. After the aftermath of the disputes at the ports, we have received assurances from the State that we will not face a problem like that, even in 2010 and onward. It was an issue of a misunderstanding. Listen, we acquired ports worth $350 million and we were forced to sell them for $1.2 billion. So I think I'm going to complain about that. It's a good deal.
As you look around the world and you say you're ready to expand this year, where is your sight line very clearly trained on in terms of expansion?
Let me tell you, we are a company. We follow cargo. So we don't have a strategy of basically I'm going to invest here or there for strategic reasons. We don't do that.
But is it de-globalization that's going to drive you? Because people returning their manufacturing to the United States of America, the pressure to shift manufacturing around the world. Is that going to drive your decision-making?
No, it is cargo. We look at cargo. We are in Canada and we are expanding in Canada because there is cargo. We are expanding in Brazil because there is cargo. We'll move to a country when we know from our customers that we need to be there. And bear in mind, today we are not just port operators. We are also a huge logistics company. And so moving cargo, whether by ship or by rail or by trucks, it's part of our business. And so we follow the cargo more than we decide some strategy. Our budget is flexible. In other words, we have a budget for next year, but there could be a business not in the budget that is more urgent. And we will do it. We might delay something that can be delayed and put the money in the business that is urgently needed.
How often do you sit down with the board and talk about those potential deals? Is that something that just goes on an ongoing basis, or do you have an idea and you come to the board?
No, it's always in discussion with the board. Of course, every year we put a budget and we say this is where we're going to invest.
What do you think you're going to spend this year, sir?
We announced it. I think, Daniel, have we announced the budget? This year's budget. We always do it in April.
I'll come back and see you in April for the number.
But our business investment starts really from the regions. So each region will look at an investment opportunity and then we are involved internally on the approval. Once all the teams basically agree that we should do this investment, and I think it's like 10 or 15 of our people involved, including me, then of course it goes to the board to ratify it.
We have this détente moment between the United States of America and China for a year until they work out a bigger roadmap. How important is that to trade?
Always when there is stability, when countries are good with each other, of course business increases.
Well, let's talk about instability. You mentioned Venezuela at the start and I know you had a presence there until early 2009. The president of the United States has taken Nicolás Maduro to New York, put him on trial, and we understand taken control of Venezuela. If you're a CEO, an oil CEO sitting in the White House being told you need to do business in Venezuela, tell me what would go through your mind. As a CEO, what would you want to hear before you would take more risk?
