One word to describe News Associates as of right now.
Innovative. He's taking that. I'm gonna come up with another I. Inspirational.
Just thinking this is a good idea in the pub one afternoon to become the top place in the country to deliver journalism training.
You've topped the leaderboards many times. Was it eight, nine times? Welcome to the How to be a journalist podcast. In celebration of News Associates' 20th year anniversary throughout 2026, we're going to be interviewing people who have been there and very much done it. So whether it's accomplished grads in our industry and even those who have taken the skills they've learned on the course and taken other industries by storm, but today I have just one guest, I have two guests. And when it comes to 20 years of News Associates, I think there is nobody else better to talk to. So my guest today is James Tony and Richard Parsons. How are the two of you doing today?
Yeah, very good indeed. Thank you.
Thank you very much for coming on to the podcast as well. And in terms of the How to be a journalist podcast, this is a nice full circle moment. So I think when it comes to the start of News Associates and the start of training, let's hear the story. Where did things begin? So take me back to 2006.
Like many things, it started in the pub. If you remember, Richard, we had the agency side of our business. Richard used to run what were they called? Those little short sessions.
Yes. The introduction to sports journalism.
Introduction to sports journalism. And people would come in what, two or three days?
Yeah. Even earlier than that, we were getting repeated requests from people to come in and do work experience. And because we were a small setup, we could only take one person at a time and then not all the time. And from that we moved on to thinking perhaps we could put together a short course just introducing people to what sports journalism is. The best thing about that course though was the sandwiches which my mom used to make. And at the end of it, so you'd come in for three days and at the end of it we would always, the question would turn to like what your next steps. And Richard would always say well you know the NCTJ. I think you'd worked with the NCTJ for a number of years as sort of an assessor or you'd worked around.
Yeah, that's right. And it was three days to start with but we were stretching it out a bit to be honest over three days and it came down to two in the end and eventually just one day. I think we moved on from trying to deal with those that were interested in coming in and doing work experience to the fact that we could see that this was actually a good marketing tool for our NCTJ courses which were beginning about that time.
I think I remember sitting in the pub saying we'd done one of these days and at the end of it we'd pointed people in the direction of doing the NCTJ and I don't know who said it. It might have been Richard, it might have been James. They said why don't we just do the NCTJ qualification, why don't we just deliver it. And obviously that wasn't what the business was, it was a press agency, it was as it still is supplying content to lots of different media outlets but we thought no we can take it on. And I think that's you know when you're sort of at the start of a business career you sort take the view of like no let's screw it just do it. And we came up with the idea in the October and by the March we had our first course away. And it was really Richard who managed to persuade the powers that be at the NCTJ who have been nothing but supportive over the years to take a bit of a chance on us because I don't think they'd have taken a chance on me, James and David. Richard gave us all of the credibility and the gravitas. So yeah, within a few months we had managed to have the idea, recruit and the guinea pigs, the early people, you know, they took a bit of a punt on us as much as we took a punt on them. Although some great people on that course like James Andrews and Dan Scoffield and Nardia Mendoz, brilliant people who are on that course who have gone on to great careers. Nardia is writing a book. James Andrews the editor of 442. Dan Scoffield is you know senior serious senior journalist at Telegraph. But yeah with those guys took a bit of a punt on us.
Yeah, I remember going to James Parsons and I went to be interviewed if you like by the NCTJ who were based at Harlow and Essex at that time. And what worked against us was the fact that we weren't the normal partner for an NCTJ because we were a sports agency and I think there was a suspicion that we weren't going to be able to deliver a general course. It would be too sports-oriented. So that was I know that was in their mind at the time and they were minded to give us provisional accreditation. The one thing that worked in our favor and we were unaware at the time was NCTJ wanted to see another independent outlet in London. There was one at the time and they wanted to see more diversity and yeah we came along at the right time.
And the ethos behind it was the ethos that stays now. Obviously, the agency is no longer just sport. It's news and it's lifestyle and it's a big part of a big portfolio of businesses. But the idea was that we thought the best way to learn journalism is to do journalism and to be really practical. I think I don't know who came up with it. It might have been James Parsons about the idea of like our newsroom is your classroom. We've almost maintained that for 20 years. But we were very different and the NCTJ did take a bit of a punt on us definitely at the start and we had to persuade not just them but also people who were looking to do the qualification that we knew what we were talking about.
There were 16 on that first course which was remarkable really considering we were only provisionally accredited. We didn't really have any marketing history to help us and we started in March which isn't the normal time that students start courses. It's usually September, but we got 16 on that course.
I don't know how we got 16 on that course. Actually was a miracle really.
I mean you say about like how Richard was able to give you the credibility. So it was obviously it was you and James Parsons and David Parsons. So did to you did it feel like you were taking the punt, like what sold you to support it?
I think there was a bit of confidence in the fact that, you know, I'd been in the profession for 35 years, you know, done all sorts of roles, met all sorts of situations and there was that confidence that suggested we could do this. I'll just lean on my.
What we didn't have though was any teaching experience. So when you know the and I wasn't really involved in the teaching, still not really, but on those first few courses but Richard stood in front of those room having never done it before in your life, quite daunting.
I was going to say 9:00 on that first morning standing up and thinking what the heck am I going to say?
We had as well there's lots of people who have supported us along the way but we had who still we work with now with St. Mary's which is the university just down the road from us here in Twickenham which is Daryara Manog and Darra had that sort of academic background and he was able to sort of steer around the edges of as we were plotting together a program. But those first 16 people who came through the door yeah they were taking a punt on us but what has been great is actually seeing how successful so many of those people are.
Yeah. I mean, so 16 people on that very first course. How did you get the word out?
So, you know, now it's all about things like this, things like the podcast, things like social media, the marketing. Then I'm pretty sure there was no we had no social media presence. The best way of doing it was the two national newspapers had a media section, the Guardian and the Independent.
And the Media Guardian, I think it came out on a Wednesday. And you had to take a display ad out. And the really challenging thing at the start is we couldn't use this ad and say that we were NCTJ accredited because we couldn't use the logo. We couldn't use it because we weren't accredited. So we had this choice of words like industry recognized journalism training and it went in the paper and then you just sat there hoping the phone was going to ring and when the phone rang you really went up for it and then you had to sort of try to persuade these people. Dan Scoffield who you know I still see because he's working at the Telegraph now. He probably asked he must have made about 25 phone calls to us before we actually joined the course. So, are you for real? Am I going to lose my money? Is this actually going to happen? Do you guys know what you're talking about? You know, maybe not. So, yeah, that was how we got it going early on.
And there were a few on that course that had done the introduction to sports.
James Andrews had done that. James Andrews had done that. Maybe a quarter of those people had seen us in action and took.
And I think it was the fact that we had nowhere near the size of what we've got now but we were in with another news organization so we had this newsroom so we were able to bring people to the newsroom and say look this is what we're doing day-to-day. So yeah it was a bit of a leap of faith for us as much as anything else. But I always think the thing that's the hardest was that idea suddenly on day one Richard standing in front of 16 people looking at him for inspiration and he's never done teaching performing in his life and somehow and also the NCTJ qualification is like really hard like there is a reason why a lot of academic places don't get NCTJ accredited because it's hard to get NCTJ accreditation they really do they make you work for it so you know we felt the pressure I think.
I think as well like because obviously working for NA now like one thing that I'll say whether it's a course interview is like come to News Associates if you want a hands-on practical experience and doing things differently which is a sentiment that seems like hasn't changed for the last 20 years.
No, it's the same. But I think what's different at the start is we didn't have anyone who's done it. So now the people who are doing that can say in every single newsroom in the UK, national, regional, local, and actually loads internationally. You have to walk in that newsroom and if you shouted out News Associates, there'd be plenty of people who knew what you were talking about. Back then there was no one at all. So we had no credibility. We had no case studies. So that was what made it. And look I do think word of mouth is still a really important part of recruitment, right? So people so many people come to us. We've not quite yet had the daughter of someone who's trained with us come to us yet or the son of someone who's trained with us come to us. Not quite that old yet, but I'm sure that time might come eventually. But yeah, word of mouth is really important and that's not we didn't have that because no one knew who we were. And the established player in London was a really big organization, you know, they probably saw us and didn't think too much of this organization. We were out in Wimbledon at the time, this organization in Wimbledon who, you know, they don't have any background. They won't get but very quickly we took quite a lot of market share which was great.
Yeah, I think we were an irritation to them. They were based near the Guardian office and you know they filled their classes quite easily. The competition's good, right? So we definitely saw a gap in the market both in terms of in London but also in quality and we wanted look the ambition was it took How long did it take us to win top center? When's the first It took us We didn't win it straight away.
Oh god, no. No. At least five years. I remember being out in Manchester and Richard was at the NCTJ I wasn't allowed to go to the NCTJ awards because I am a terrible winner and an even worse loser.
So I was Yeah, I knew we had a chance of winning it. Richard was representing us obviously doing it appropriately and I was in Manchester at our Manchester office and we'd gone out for the evening and I was just looking at my phone waiting for the phone to ring and Richard rang and said that we've won Top Center and I think that probably would have been five or six years. So it took us a while. It took us a while to have that bit of validation. But that meant loads because it meant that you know in a very short space of time from these guys who've never taught before without any qualification just thinking this is a good idea in the pub one afternoon to become the top place in the country to deliver journalism training. That was great. And but then of course the challenge was to stay at number one which we've been able to do.
I nearly didn't get to that Cardiff gathering because it was snow everywhere. The train services were down and I set off from home and made my way there as best I could and instead of being there for the sort of registration period, lunchtime, early afternoon, I got there just before tea time and then I got an inkling that there was something going just from remarks that were being made. It suddenly occurred to me, hang on, we might even be in line for an award here.
Yeah. That's how my spirits were really. I think it was probably in my working career, one of the definitely in my top five moments. I remember where I was when I got that call. I stepped outside the bar I was in and Richard said we'd won and it was we celebrated from Manchester while Richard was, you know, in Cardiff, but it was great because in a really short space of time, I think a lot of people doubted whether we could do it. Maybe we doubted whether we could do it at some point. So to so quickly establish ourselves as the top place that was really good.
So like what were the sort of things you were doing on the course that basically established you guys as the best?
Everything was done in chalk and slate and like there were blackboards. The course was different though, wasn't it? I mean, you know, Rich is still involved in training now, but the course is really different back then.
I remember we set up the training room with laptops for everyone that worked off another laptop, the server. And it was clear after day one that they were going to lose their charge before the end of the day. So, we had to hurriedly sort of reorganize. The best acquisition that we made when we started doing journalism training. We thought we're going to have all these sort of trainees from the start. We never called them students. It was like the one thing we said you're a trainee here, you're not a student. We wanted to have that newsroom ethos. We wanted it to be like a first day of a job. And actually, that's one thing that Richard really wanted to do. And we've maintained that throughout the 20 years. But the thing that we were most excited about was we bought a vending machine. Oh my word, we were so excited. We thought we got to feed these guys stuff. And so we bought this vending machine which didn't do much for our diets because diets was usually like a Snickers and a Monster Munch out the vending machine every day. But we had this vending machine which I remember being really really proud about. But the course was really different. I mean you know that I've got the NCTJ have evolved the course a lot over that 20 years. And I think that possibly 20 years ago the NCTJ was seen as probably maybe that first cohort still went through that traditional path of maybe NCTJ qualification into a regional or local newsroom. Yes. Graduating through their maybe international or diversifying out into another part of the industry and the qualification was quite framed around that pathway.
There weren't a lot of subjects that you could take. I mean there's quite a shopping list now of different subjects but the journalism I forget what it was called then reporting exam maybe was the centerpiece and it was backed up by shorthand which was.
Multiple public affairs exams, law exams.
Two law, public affairs and there weren't options like production or sport. But we put that on as an option without being examined on our first course. That is actually one thing that as the guys who deliver training here whenever there's a new optional module that comes out from the NCTJ they will invariably say let's have a go at doing it. And we didn't want to just prepare people for the exam, you know, just to get them through the exam we wanted to prepare them for as close as possible for what the job is like. So you know Richard was quite passionate about adding the other things in and I think the fact that look we was the big part of the business was working journalists so Richard was seeing that and the team seeing the sort of changing practices that were coming in and we're able to bring those into the training and that's still a big part of what we do.
I think even now like there are so many different ways to find the story. You can go onto social media but like I do think talking to I don't know who told me this but I had some insider information where you would essentially go out onto the streets and find stories with the trainee. So could you tell me a little bit more about.
Yeah, that was James's idea really. It was usually on the first day and in pairs people would be dispatched to Wimbledon where we were at the time and had to come back with a picture of themselves with a stranger and a story to go with it. It could be just a simple story about someone doing their shopping if you like, but it involves you approaching people.
I've always took the view that everyone's got a story to tell and half the reason why those stories don't get told is those people don't get asked. And we again we didn't want to just sit in a room and just sit behind the desk and tell you how to be a journalist. We wanted to throw you out. Do you remember the yellow pages exercise?
So yellow people probably even know what the yellow pages is anymore. But like the idea behind the yellow pages exercise the story. So you'd go into the classroom and you'd have the big phone book. I mean the yellow pages probably is now either doesn't exist or is really really thin. You need a telephone number. You Google it, right? But the yellow pages you go in the yellow pages and I'd say like give me a number between 1 and 700 and you 420. You tear out page 420, which would be a list of plumbers and you go from that page bring me a story. So you might have to ring like 50 or 60 plumbers to try to find out. And actually sometimes you found a story. There was something in it like it could be nothing to do with plumbing. It could be you've called a plumber but they've just come back from climbing Kilimanjaro for charity or something. So yeah, we've always tried to bring those things those practical things into the classroom into learning like you know we did 10 years before the queen died. We were killing the queen in a practical exercise and actually what was really interesting is when she did die and the amount of people who then contacted us and went really like that exercise we did eight nine years ago. So yeah, we've always tried to do those things which aren't part of the additional and on top of.
Well we sent people out in the pairs as I said and most came back with a little anecdote type story but some people pushed it and I remember a guy who found a window cleaner and went up in his cradle on an office block and another one who persuaded the tube driver at Wimbledon station to let him sit in the.
Do you remember the one about Nardia actually and it was there was a guy selling the big issue outside Wimbledon station and she had gone up to them and started talking to them and seeing if they had a story and he told her that he used to be I think it was the Arctic Monkeys.
Kaiser Chiefs, right? He used to be in the Kaiser Chiefs and she came back in and she was like I can't believe I found this amazing story. The guy who sells a big issue outside you know Wimbledon station used to be in the Kaiser Chiefs and which going yeah all right yeah what you pull the other one. And anyway she was relentless with this and actually it's true he did before they became famous before they when they were just starting out bit of like a fifth Beatles story he was you know he was working with them they went on to stardom he had story was really sad actually about drugs and alcohol and depression and ended up on the streets while they went to stardom but again it underlined that idea that there's a story everywhere so that really practical element I That is the one thing we've held there's lots of changes of the course over 20 years but the one thing we've held really true to is the doing you know I think and the practicality of the course.
We had links at the time with the Wimbledon Guardian newspaper and trainees were effectively their extra reporting team and through these sort of exercises they came up with off diary stories all the time for the Wimbledon Guardian and we built it from there I guess you know we eventually We had our own website and still do that where they can practice their skills, find their stories and have them published. But that the original link was the Wimbledon Guardian. So we broke down the area into villages and suburbs and so on. And they all of them were given a patch to cover.
Yeah. And came up with off diary stories. You know, for instance, the World Cup was going on at the time and a man in New Malden discovered it is the biggest Korean population outside Korea in New Malden and honed into the fact that the pub in the center of town just taken over completely by the Korean.
And like I think the national papers ended up doing it. It was on the BBC London other stuff like that. So yeah, but there's lots of stories but some of the trainees have done some amazing stories.
So then let's say for example I'm sure that there's been a number of different staff that have come through the door. So let me ask you to name your all-stars. What staff does that come to mind?
Well there were loads there are loads of food any business is only as good as its staff right you know you can set an idea and a vision but that vision only comes alive by the staff. Very early on we had a guy called Andy Mohouse who was really you know you talk about eras of training and Andy taught shorthand on the very first course and then Angela Katau who obviously is still part of a team. She's not quite done the full 20 years. So she did miss she's done all but one course Angela so she's not quite there yet but obviously Angela came in to teach shorthand and then Andy started taking more of a sort of role alongside Richard in the delivery of training. So Andy was a pretty key person in those early days.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. As far as you're talking about trainees that have gone on to be something.
We'll get to the trainee.
Right. Okay. Yes. Yes. I think you've named you mentioned also Darra contact at St. Mary's University who did a public affairs to start with which is a subject I don't think any of us wanted to take particular. It's a great book. And then of course in more recent years you've got our course director here now Graeme Moody was on the second ever News Associates course.
And did the course and then went to work in local and then national media and then I bumped into him. I was halfway up a mountain in Russia. I hadn't seen him for a number of years. I was covering the Olympics, so was he and we had a chat and a little reminiscing about the vending machine and Richard's lessons. And then we had a staff vacancy came up and I was with another great News Associates all-star, Rachel Bull, who was with us for a number of years and left only a couple of years ago. And I remember we saying we really need to find this person. I said, Tell you what we need. We need someone like Graeme Moody. You know, he'd be brilliant at this role. And then we put the ad out and the very first application that came back in was from Graeme Moody. So we hadn't tapped him up in any way, shape or form. It was like fate and obviously now he's our course director and as well as an all-star you got to mention Lucy Der who's been with us for 10 years as well. Again, best things happen in the pub. Lucy was interviewed in a pub. She was coming towards the end of her course and then Holly Man, another one of our all-stars had been talking to her and she remember it was at a Christmas party and she brought her across and me and Holly interviewed her in the pub for a sort of editorial assistant role and she came in as an editorial assistant and now is obviously our editorial development director and plays a massive role in the development of everything that we do within training and broadly across the business as well. So, we've met some people out there, but you know, Andy, Angela, Rachel, Holly, Lucy, Graeme, I'm sure there are others, but you know, Andrew Greaves in Manchester as well. Got to mention Andrew Greaves. Greaves. He made a huge impact on News Associates. Really passionate about journalism and about young journalists and career opportunities.
And helped us launch Jouro Fest.
Yeah, absolutely. And Journal Fest. Yeah, he was key behind that. You know, now it's had more than 10 years or into its 11th edition or I know we've done a lot. So yeah, we've had some great staff, amazing staff. We will have missed people out, but those are my all-star team, I think.
Yeah, there haven't been too many over the years, which is a big plus for us. You know, we don't burn.
Yeah, we have. We've been really lucky for people to stay within the business and grow within the business, and that always helps.
