Hello, how are you? I'm Andrés Oppenheimer. We are in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and it's a time of great political upheaval. Obviously in Latin America, the United States' attack on Venezuela and the capture of Nicolás Maduro continue to dominate the news. A few days before Maduro's capture, I spoke extensively with President Javier Milei in his office at the Casa Rosada. We asked him about everything: Venezuela, his new political allies in South America, whether they plan to create a new bloc, his agreement with the United States, and of course, the situation in Argentina, among other topics. Milei had a good year in 2025, achieving a very good electoral result in the October legislative elections, lowering inflation, maintaining social calm, and is once again reinserting Argentina into the world. However, Argentina has not yet climbed out of the hole. Although the macroeconomic numbers are good, many people say they can't make ends meet and that the microeconomy is still languishing. Consumption has fallen, and although family income recovered a little in 2025, it is still below what it was 10 years ago, according to the consultancy Ecogo. Let's go to the interview. President Javier Milei, thank you very much for receiving us.
How are you? How are you, Andrés?
Is this chainsaw always here, or did you put it out today for the visit?
The chainsaw lives here and is, without a doubt, one of the greatest symbols of this administration. We made the largest fiscal adjustment in history because to find cuts of 30% in real public spending after a war, there is no precedent. But that was only part of the adjustment. We had a fiscal deficit of five points of GDP, but we also had a quasi-fiscal deficit from the Central Bank of 10 points of GDP. We closed the Treasury deficit in the first month of government and the Central Bank's in six months. So it's a symbol of cutting, because there's a very interesting quote from Milton Friedman, and also Murray Rothbard used to say it, that the real tax burden a country experiences is the size of public spending. That public spending has to be financed somehow. Argentina, like many others, the first way to try to finance it is basically with debt, which are future taxes, keeping the party going now and letting future generations pay the bill, which is an immorality. But then at some point that source runs out, so they resort to monetary emission, which is another form of tax, the inflationary tax. And that also has several problems because on one hand it distorts prices, and inflation is also a very regressive tax. And the other way is to raise explicit taxes, which also ends up killing economic growth.
I want to ask you more in depth about Argentina later, but first, President, let's talk about the most pressing issues. You asked me about the chainsaw. I couldn't resist, I got hooked on the chainsaw. I couldn't resist because it's the first time I sit down to interview a president and he puts a chainsaw in my face. President, let's talk about the most important crisis on the continent, Venezuela. Obviously, on December 20th, if I'm not mistaken, you signed a declaration with other Mercosur countries saying they supported the pressure from the United States against the Maduro regime, but you used the word 'pressure.' President Trump is talking about something more than pressure, he's talking about ground attacks. Would you support an invasion?
Absolutely. I wouldn't call it an invasion, I'd call it a liberation. The Maduro regime is what Cuba, Castroism, was in the 70s in Latin America today. Basically, 21st-century socialism tries to install communism through the democratic path, but due to the dynamics of these regimes, they end up in totalitarian situations. In Maduro's case, he is a dictator linked to drug trafficking, and he has also contaminated the continent with spies and subversive acts that have worked against governments with different political signs than 21st-century socialism. That's why countries aligned with 21st-century socialism, which are financed by this narco-terrorist murderer, don't want to condemn him.
President, there are many people who obviously don't like the Venezuelan regime, but they fear that if there is a unilateral US invasion, it will give ammunition to the left or the far-left to revive the issue of Yankee imperialism for generations. Or to put it another way, what do you say to the argument that this had to be a coordinated, agreed-upon action with several countries?
Afterwards, you can coordinate the solution and give it whatever format you want. What is clear is that Venezuela has an illegitimate dictatorial regime that has lost at the ballot box and has violated the results, it doesn't recognize the results. So it is illegitimately in power, sustained by the armed forces. So tell me if you think that's fair. But you ask me, I say, no, because the question is the other way around. Do you think the situation Venezuelans live in is fair, President? Obviously, if you read what I write, you know I'm very... Well, we're having a dialogue, apart from the dialogue, I can frame my answers in rhetorical questions. Yes, President, but the question was whether there shouldn't have been... I agree that the United States should move forward, and if they need my support, they will have it. Why? Because it's a narco-terrorist dictatorial regime that has infected the entire continent by injecting money to generate problems in all those governments that don't respond to 21st-century socialism. Clearer than water.
What kind of support could Argentina provide?
Have they required anything so far?
Not yet, but I am willing to help. I am willing to fight for freedom all over the world.
How could that support be provided? Troops, resources?
We will evaluate it when they make the requests. If we can respond, we will do it.
Maduro says all this is a US plan to take over.
It doesn't matter what a lying, narco-terrorist murderer like Maduro says.
Brazil said at that same December Mercosur meeting that it would be a humanitarian catastrophe, verbatim words, if I'm not mistaken, from President Lula, aligned with 21st-century socialism. They propose a diplomatic solution. Can there be a diplomatic solution like the one Brazil proposes?
I don't think so, because the solution from the allies of 21st-century socialism is that they don't pay the costs for the aberrations they committed. So, to move on to another topic, partners look out for each other. There's a saying, I don't know, that's well-known here: 'Among firefighters, they don't step on each other's hose.' Did you speak with Lula about this personally?
I have nothing to talk to Lula about on this topic.
At that meeting, I saw the videos, your greeting with him was cold, almost icy, as if you didn't meet behind the scenes, behind the curtains, you didn't talk, there was no personal contact.
You said around that time, not long ago, just a few days, that South America has awakened and there is a turn towards freedom. Your words, referring to right-wing or center-right governments, however you want to call them, pro-market, that have won elections in recent times, starting with you, Ecuador, Bolivia, Chile now, etc. Is a bloc of countries being formed, however you want to call it, pro-free market, center-right, right-wing?
It seems the region has awakened from the nightmare of 21st-century socialism. People are discovering that it is indeed a farce, that the whole benevolent veneer is nothing more than a sentimental, lying, deceptive narrative so that a group of outlaws can take power and impoverish the population. And everywhere it is applied, it is a failure.
Well, but the question is, will a bloc be formed?
I don't have two, I am actively working on it.
Does that bloc have a name yet?
No, we haven't named it yet, but there is already a group of 10 countries that we are working with and we will continue to advance.
How would you define it? Would it be an informal bloc? A formal bloc?
We are trying to create a bloc where our proposal is to embrace the city of liberty and stand up to the cancer of socialism in its various versions, whether it's 21st-century socialism or the Woke. I mean, not to mention the more extreme versions, right?
Do you have any group meeting planned?
We are designing it, but it could be in the first quarter of 2026. It's a task being carried out by Foreign Minister Mondino.
President, to continue on the regional theme, this year there will be elections in several Latin American countries, some important, or several important, all are important, I correct myself, all are important. Let's start with Colombia. President Petro, you have called him a nostalgic of Mussolini, and a few days ago he released a video showing looting in Buenos Aires that turned out to be videos from two years before you were in government. That shows he's a liar. Does the possibility of a change of government in Colombia excite you?
That will have to be determined by Colombians, but clearly he is not someone whose ideas I share. But it's interesting that he's so ignorant, because in fact, Mussolini himself, when he talks about fascism, says 'everything within the State, nothing outside the State, and nothing against the State.' Fascism is one of the variants of socialism, whether they like it or not, whether they want to accept it or not, both Nazism and fascism are branches of socialism. That they don't want to accept it is their problem. There's a recent book on the subject by Axel Kaiser, and when you look at the ideas, they have great coincidences. The problem is that we all know that Nazism and fascism have been truly horrific, and consequently, they want to shed that burden and have this habit of projecting, right? And whatever evils are roaming the earth, they want to pin them on free-market capitalism.
President, in October there will be elections in Brazil, a major trading partner of Argentina, the largest country in South America. The same question I asked before, does the possibility of a change of government in Brazil excite you?
Again, it's an election for Brazilians. With the difference that there, I have friends, like the Bolsonaros. So, if you ask me, taking me out of the role of a politician, it's clear that I prefer a solution with the Bolsonaros than a solution from 21st-century socialism.
But if Lula wins, would you seek a rapprochement with Brazil to improve trade relations or not?
And aren't we already working on trade relations? I mean, you can have mature relations, one can think differently and still trade. Trade benefits everyone. So there's a quote from Milton Friedman based on an article by Reed called 'The Laffer Curve.' It tells how different people in the world trade with each other and that even when they might have profound differences, everyone benefits from the exchanges. So, you can coexist, but clearly, before embracing the ideas of freedom and leaving them to embrace socialism, man, I don't know, I'd rather not be in this world anymore.
Well, speaking of that pragmatism, which is ultimately what you're talking about, China. During the electoral campaign, you were very tough on China, even in an interview at the beginning of your government, you spoke of China in very harsh or very true terms, depending on how one wants to see it. Since then, you have had rapprochements with China. Do you plan to travel to China in 2026?
Yes, we are planning a trip to China. We have a very good trade relationship with China, and again, we have to try to trade with all the countries in the world, and all those who want to trade with us are welcome. And in that sense, China is a major trading partner.
President Trump, as you know very well, has said even in his national security strategy that he will try to discourage Latin America's relations with China. China, as you just said, is one of Argentina's main partners.
Yes, but that is not linked to trade, it is linked to geopolitics, which is a different music.
Okay. If it's linked to geopolitics, will Argentina change its current policy, for example, regarding the Chinese observatories in Patagonia and San Juan?
We are allies of the United States and Israel. Afterwards, there are the geopolitical issues, and then there are the commercial issues, and the commercial issues will be handled.
Well, on the geopolitical front, to stay in the lane you're heading, the United States is concerned, the previous government was, this government is, about the observatories China has in Patagonia and San Juan, which, according to US officials, I have no way of knowing if it's true or not, can instantly detect the movement of US planes, for example. And in the case of a war between the United States and China, well, let's say, those hypotheses will have to be validated.
I answer based on facts, I don't theorize. President Trump hasn't raised that with me.
He hasn't raised that with you?
They haven't made that proposal to me.
You have announced, if I'm not mistaken, that you will travel to Israel in 2026.
Yes, I will travel to Israel. Yes.
