President of Semiconductor Solutions, Broadcom
Silicon Architect: Charlie Kawwas on Engineering the AI Infrastructure of Tomorrow
In this episode of A Bit Personal, Jodi Shelton is joined by Dr. Charlie Kawwas, President of Broadcom’s Semiconductor Solutions Group, to pull back the curtain on the invisible infrastructure powering our digital world. While many focus on the hype of software, Charlie dives into the high-stakes reality of the hardware that makes it all possible—from the massive scale of AI data centers to the critical evolution of global connectivity.
Charlie shares his unique perspective on leading through some of the most transformative shifts in tech history. He breaks down why the semiconductor industry...
About Charlie Kawwas
In 2025 and early 2026, Charlie Kawwas, President of Broadcom's Semiconductor Solutions Group, has been a prominent voice on the infrastructure demands of artificial intelligence. He has described AI infrastructure as "civilization's next-generation operating system" and a "critical utility" for the global population. In October 2025, Kawwas joined OpenAI executives Sam Altman and Greg Brockman, along with Broadcom CEO Hock Tan, to announce a partnership to design a custom AI chip and system, with Kawwas stating that Broadcom is "defining civilization's next-generation operating system." He has repeatedly identified energy consumption as the primary challenge to democratizing AI, noting that compute demand is increasing by 10x annually and that power access is the main hurdle for deploying large AI clusters. Kawwas has highlighted Broadcom's engineering focus, stating that over 13,000 of his 15,000 employees are engineers, and has showcased innovations such as the Tomahawk 5 networking chip and silicon photonics co-packaged optics, which he said reduces power consumption by 70%. Kawwas has also shared his personal background and career philosophy in multiple public appearances. He has spoken about arriving in Montreal from Bethlehem with no high school diploma and little English, and credited Concordia University for giving him an opportunity)Skip. In June 2025, he received an honorary doctorate from Concordia, where he told graduates that his formula for success is "WEL": work hard, embrace challenges, and live adaptability. He has advised engineers to choose their own mentors, citing Hock Tan as his own, and urged young professionals to embrace AI or risk being left behind. Kawwas has also discussed his daily rituals of exercising, calling his mother on video, and praying before bed.
Transcript (142 segments)
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Narrator0:00
Today we're going to get a bit personal with one of the leaders quietly shaping the digital backbone of our world. Charlie Kawwas is the president of Broadcom Semiconductor Group, overseeing the technologies that power hyperscaled data centers, global networks, and the infrastructure behind AI, cloud, and connectivity. His work doesn't always make the headlines, but without it, much of the modern digital economy simply wouldn't function. You're going to find Charlie's journey fascinating. What's easy to miss when you look at Charlie's resume is how far that journey actually stretches. Charlie grew up in Bethlehem, a place layered with history, faith, tension, and resilience. It's not the most obvious starting point for a career in semiconductors, but it turns out to be one of the most important chapters in understanding how he sees the world. That journey didn't unfold in a straight line. As a young man, Charlie left everything familiar behind and arrived in Montreal with no high school diploma, no money, and a tremendous amount of uncertainty. It was a moment defined by risk and resolve. I've had the opportunity to get to know Charlie over the past couple years, and he's become one of my favorite people, and it's not only about his technical depth, because that's almost a given in our world. It's about his humanity, his kindness and generosity, his commitment to mentorship, and his belief in developing talent, and his deep sense of responsibility to the ecosystem that depends on the technologies he brings to life. Today, we're going to learn more about the early influences, the defining leaps and the pressures of leadership, and the values that guide him when the stakes are high and the answers aren't obvious. This is a conversation about what it really takes to build an enduring impact from the inside out.
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Jody1:48
Charlie, it's great to see you. Thank you for being on the podcast.
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Charlie Kawwas1:53
It's a pleasure and an honor. Thank you for thinking of me and thank you for being here with me and especially wearing this beautiful red color symbolizing Broadcom.
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Jody2:03
Exactly. So, well, I'm looking forward to the conversation and as you know, I've had the opportunity in my career to work with a lot of different leaders in this industry.
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Charlie Kawwas2:13
Yeah. And it's interesting because everybody has their own style, their own vibe, and their own reputation. Sometimes you can ask someone about a leader and you get a hundred different answers.
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Jody2:24
Okay. But what I have found in my conversations about you is that it's pretty consistent. People think of you as a very thoughtful and principled person and leader. And so I want to just go back and see how you developed into the person you are today. So we're going to start from the beginning. Is that okay?
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Charlie Kawwas2:43
That sounds great.
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Jody2:45
All right. So, you grew up in Bethlehem.
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Charlie Kawwas2:48
Yes.
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Jody2:49
And so, tell us a little bit about what that environment was like and maybe what it quietly taught you that you maybe didn't realize mattered at the time and maybe even some events or people that had an impact on you at that point in your life.
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Charlie Kawwas3:04
Yeah. Well, definitely. You're going more than a bit personal. So yeah, I'm proud to have been born in Bethlehem. I was born in Bethlehem and as you know, Bethlehem is a very special place around the world, but it's my favorite place. I love the city. I love the people of the city. It taught me a lot which I actually carry till today with me and I hopefully actually have passed some of this to my children. So first I want you to know that I came from very simple beginnings. We were a family of five. So family is one of the core values that we carry. And the house we grew up in is smaller than this office.
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Jody3:51
Okay.
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Charlie Kawwas3:51
So when you have five people growing up in a place so small, you have one or two outcomes. Either you fight all the time or deeply love each other and get along. And luckily for us it was the latter. So I have a very loving and supportive family. But growing up in Bethlehem also taught me how to be resilient and that is actually another big thing that I carry with me because I think this is one of the key ingredients for leaders and successful leaders especially. Success starts with many failures and so resiliency is one of the key things that I've learned growing up in Bethlehem. And the third thing I would say that comes to mind, I grew up learning that education is the most important element or even weapon that you can carry with you throughout your career. So there was a huge stress on education. I come from a family on my father's side of carpenters. No surprise in Bethlehem.
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Jody4:57
Right. Right. Right.
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Charlie Kawwas4:58
And then my mother was a math teacher. So it was a phenomenal combination for me of arts and how to run a business and then math and the science behind it. So combination of that with education is something I'm very proud of and I make sure that you know my team, my children, my family continue at least on some of these values.
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Jody5:25
Do you think that it was because your mother was a teacher that education was so important or how did that come, where did that come from with them?
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Charlie Kawwas5:35
Growing up in Bethlehem for my mom as a woman in the 50s and 60s, one of the best jobs you can do is to be a teacher. And she loved math. She's one of the first ones in her family to go to university. And I remember growing up she wouldn't get us books, she would get us math magazines. So we wouldn't read books growing up. We actually solve problems and learn tricks. And so, I did that up until the age of 10 or 11. And then my uncle, her brother, who's my first mentor, taught me how to program a computer. And at the time, the computer was just an 8-bit microcontroller with a cassette to record and save your program. And so that path for me was what pushed me more towards science and education and it's been a blessing. Look where we are.
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Jody6:36
Right. Right. So then came a really big leap.
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Charlie Kawwas6:41
Yes.
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Jody6:42
From Bethlehem to Montreal.
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Charlie Kawwas6:43
Yes.
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Jody6:44
So you wind up in Montreal, no money, no diploma, a lot of uncertainty. Correct. So tell me about that journey and you know who did you know maybe even tell me about like what were the first like two weeks like the first two months like I mean how did you adapt to that?
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Charlie Kawwas7:00
So I remember till this day it was the 12th of December 1988.
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Jody7:05
So cold.
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Charlie Kawwas7:05
Holy smokes, from Bethlehem to Montreal. It was like a shift of 40 degrees almost. So I wasn't prepared for that. I didn't have boots. I didn't have a winter coat. I used to have hair at the time. So but I didn't have a hat and in that weather you definitely need a hat. So but it's a lot more than that actually. It is the scariest experience of my life because you're talking about an 18-year-old who didn't speak the language and really didn't understand this new culture and had, like you said, not only no money, it's actually worse. The biggest burden was I took the life savings of my parents, which was enough for one semester.
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Jody7:49
Wow.
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Charlie Kawwas7:50
And then you have that on your shoulders and you go, where do I start? So it was very difficult, very tough but again going back to the resilience was what I learned from that experience was failure is not an option and I carry this with me till today. So there's no safety net. Failure is not an option and it pushes us as human beings to get to the next level honestly.
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Jody8:15
So are you the oldest sibling?
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Charlie Kawwas8:17
Yes.
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Jody8:17
So you led the path.
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Charlie Kawwas8:19
I had no choice but to lead the path. Exactly.
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Jody8:22
All right. Okay. So then Concordia obviously has a very special place in your heart for that absolutely that reason. And so you went you got an engineering degree, masters and PhD. So why did you decide to continue on and get a PhD rather than just join the industry, start making money, start sending money back home or whatever the case may be. So why was that important to you?
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Charlie Kawwas8:45
Remember the first question you asked me, what did I learn from Bethlehem? And I think the third thing that I said was education. So before I left, my parents told me, 'Hey, make sure you come back with a PhD.' So I had to make that promise even though I didn't have a high school degree. And so that was always in the back of my mind. But as I started college and the university, I met this wonderful lady. Her name is Carol. She's my life partner, my wife. If you met her I believe. And she told me that hey my dad is very strict we can't go out you have to marry me. So I had to decide what do I do do I finish my education or do I marry this wonderful person and you need to get a job you kidding me you can't marry somebody and not be able to have a house a car and all of that so my goal all along was to get to a PhD because I made my promise. But as I went through my journey, I realized, oh boy, I better get a job otherwise I won't be able to get married. So I decided to do both.
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Jody9:57
Okay.
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Charlie Kawwas9:57
So as soon as I graduated, we got married. I asked for her hand from her parents and they're lovely people. Found a job, started my masters part-time. And that's the beauty of Concordia or Gina Cody School of Engineering. It's one of the only schools that allows you to do masters and PhD even part-time. So, I was very lucky that I was able to get a chance to learn from the industry and I joined at the time one of the best companies in the world called Nortel Networks or Northern Telecom actually when I joined them. It was even older than Nortel Networks. And so I started as an engineer with them. And then at the same time I was trying to apply what I learned in engineering in the industry in the research world and it was a phenomenal combination. So sometimes things work out for the better and for the good and this is one example for me that was a promise that I made a long time ago and it was important to finish that promise. But the way life changed things for me taught me how to be adaptable, which I think is one of the most important things I continue to talk about and practice.
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Jody11:12
Okay. All right. So, you can get married and get your PhD.
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Charlie Kawwas11:15
You can. You can. Actually, we had three children by the time I graduated.
J
Jody11:19
Oh my gosh. By the time you graduated. Okay. So, you think getting a PhD is still important to young people today? I for me I'll speak about it and I'll talk about it from my personal experience.
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Charlie Kawwas11:34
It has completely changed my career. Actually my thesis that I did in my PhD is still applicable to what I do today in AI, believe it or not. Because the math itself, even a lot of the math we use goes back hundreds of years. And a lot of the math that at the time I was applying to Ethernet and IP networks is actually applicable to what we do today especially in the back end of AI networks. So for me it really especially in the semiconductor industry I would say because it's highly technical you're dealing with engineers it has massively helped my career.
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Jody12:15
Okay. All right. Keep that in mind. Yes. Okay. So then I want to ask you one more question about your PhD. So it's funny because I've asked several CEOs, were you the smartest person in your class? Were you first in your class? And everybody's like, no, no, Jody. I was like, you know, an A minus student.
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Charlie Kawwas12:33
Okay.
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Jody12:34
But you were first in your class. So tell us about being the smartest person in the room.
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Charlie Kawwas12:38
Yeah. No, I wouldn't say the smartest person in the room. For me, I grew up loving sports and music and enjoying reading these math magazines that I told you about, right? I really enjoyed it because it was more of a puzzle rather than a chore. So, I'm going to share with you this story when I was in seventh grade. And at the time, I didn't really care that much what grade I get or if I'm the first or the last, as long as you're having fun and learning. You know, I think probably I was about 12 years old, but I remember every month we would get our transcripts from the director of the school and the director came and announced that I was the second in the class and I used to be like top 10 in the class but not the top person in the class. So I was so proud of myself that I was the second in the class. So I ran back home to tell my parents. My dad was still in his workshop, has not come back home, but my mom who was a teacher, she used to come home before we get back from school. I said, 'Hey, mom, I'm so proud. I'm the second in my class.' And she goes, 'What grade did you get?' And I said, '89.' She started crying. And I'm like, 'Why are you crying? Are you happy? Like are there tears of joy?' She goes, 'No, no, no.' She goes, 'Hey, we're sending you and your siblings to these great schools so you can learn and you come back and you're number two, not even number one, and you can't even get above 90.' So I said, 'Okay, what would make you happy?' She says, 'I want you to be number one, and I want you to get over 90.' And I remember that till this day. I promised her that at the age of 12. And I never looked back.
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Jody14:29
Wow. That's a beautiful story.
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Charlie Kawwas14:30
Yeah. It's a true story. High expectations.
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Jody14:33
Yes. Very high. So your parents must be so proud of you.
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Charlie Kawwas14:38
Yeah. My dad passed away unfortunately over 25 years ago. My mom is luckily, thank God she's alive and I call her every morning and it must be on video. She's still in Bethlehem. And I told her about our chat this morning.
J
Jody14:56
Okay. And she wants Broadcom to be number one.
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Charlie Kawwas14:58
Yes. She wants Broadcom to be number one. Number two is not a win.
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Narrator15:06
This episode is brought to you by Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley celebrated its 90th anniversary last year, and its tech investment banking team has prided itself in working with the most innovative entrepreneurs and leadership companies for decades. During that time, they've led IPOs for hundreds of tech companies including Apple, ARM, Astera Labs, Broadcom, Cisco, Facebook, Google, Nvidia, Salesforce, and Uber. In addition, they worked as a trusted adviser and executed thousands of M&A transactions for some of the most industry-defining deals in technology. Throughout the years, Morgan Stanley's tech investment banking team success has been achieved by dedication, consistency, and a northstar purpose of helping its clients to maximize their opportunities and overcome their challenges. Now, let's get back to the episode.
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Jody16:00
Okay, so you joined the industry. You start with Nortel, LSI Logic. Very formative time in the semiconductor industry. Very important time. So tell us a little bit about maybe some of the most important and critical decisions you made early on in your career. That again kind of, you know, made the path easier and maybe also the transition from being an engineer to saying I'm going to be a leader. And was that destiny or was it something that happened by accident?
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Charlie Kawwas16:31
You know what? One of the things I learned I would say from the age of 10 almost is and I didn't realize I was doing that is choosing your mentor. I really think it's not about somebody choosing you to be mentored even though it happens and it's good but it's more about choosing your mentor. So the change from engineering to the business world came through one of my mentors and it is something that I didn't think I was going to do. I was on the path of a PhD. I think at the time I had just finished my masters and was starting my PhD. And I love the engineering world and I was running a team I think of about 45 or 50 people some in the US, Canada and India those were the sort of the 45 people were and it was such a great experience to go from just a hands-on engineer to engineering management. And I was going to continue that path and then my mentor at the time said hey when you talk to customers as an engineer, something clicks, something happens and we start getting POs. He goes, you are deeply technical. You should try product management and you're still defining what the product should be since you're good articulating what happens with this product, the value to customers. That's a good blend to your career. And I contemplated that decision. I don't want to go away from this wonderful engineering fun. But I said I'll give it a shot. And I gave it a shot. And you know what? I never looked back. It was one of the best decisions. So that happened in the late 90s for me.
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Jody18:29
So when you were still in school?
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Charlie Kawwas18:32
Yeah, I started working I would say in 93 and in the late 90s I had that opportunity to change from engineering to the business side and I learned so much by interacting directly with the customers, telling the engineers what we need to build, owning a P&L at the time, learning what a P&L is. And then almost five years later I realized that the leadership at Nortel at the time did not reflect what I believed in and I thought I was going to retire at Nortel honestly. And so I changed my job only once. And so I worked for about 12 years for Nortel and I've been here for almost 21 now years. And so I joined a company called Agere which was acquired by LSI.
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Jody19:32
Okay, I remember Agere.
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Charlie Kawwas19:33
Which was acquired by Avago which now Avago became Broadcom and so that whole journey was phenomenal up until the late 2000s. I had you know run engineering I had run a product started running a P&L owned actually a global product afterwards. And then another mentor told me have you ever done sales and I said I don't want to do sales I have a PhD I want to stay running a business he says no no you need to understand how sales runs and how to drive a global team. So I had an opportunity to run a global sales organization and learned a lot through doing this. Came up with this concept called 360 selling which we'll talk about another time. Which is putting the science behind sales and quantifying what it is. And then I met Hock who's my current mentor and been my mentor I would say for over 12 years. And then in 2020 in the middle of COVID right in the parking lot outside it was just both of us leaving the office there at the time there wasn't many people in the office. He says look I want you to run operations and be the COO. I'm like I don't want that job in the middle of COVID actually at the beginning of COVID is one of the hardest things to do.
J
Jody21:07
You can't travel. Not everybody can get broadband access. You remember the zoom sessions we had? Yes. Right. I can't hear you. You broke up all the time.
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Charlie Kawwas21:14
And all of it is outside Asia, right? The entire supply chain. And so, but guess what? All these moves happened because of the people you asked to mentor you, right? And they've all participated in changing molding my career and my life. And I thank all of them for what they've done.
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Jody21:38
Yeah. So, it's great because you know you're known in the industry for being a great mentor also. Thank you. And so we now know a little bit about your philosophy, but I also want to talk about allyship because I have to tell you that when the GSA Women's Leadership Initiative started its allyship program.
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Charlie Kawwas21:55
Yeah.
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Jody21:56
You were the poster boy for it. You were the first person mentioned and it's like how do we define what allyship is? And we kind of started with look at Charlie. Okay. So tell us a little bit about what that define for the audience what you think an ally is, why it's important.
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Charlie Kawwas22:14
Yeah, I think it's really important because there is no single human being that's been successful on their own. Yes, you need mentors, but you also need allies. And I think allies are more people you can count on either in a situation where you're, you know, it's really hard for you to decide what you want to do or where you need certain help and you might say, 'Hey, Jody, I actually need help with this. Can you come and help me with it?' And when you reached out to me to do this allyship especially for women in engineering, for me this is a very dear topic to my heart. So I have three daughters and a son. So first thing I looked at I said you know even at work or even when I was in college in engineering it's probably less than 10%. During my time probably it was less than 5%. And I believe there is so much that can be created innovated and invented by adding the other half of the population. And so for me when you reached out and said hey let's do that I go look that's the least that I can do and honestly I was also leading several programs inside the company to do that. So for me specifically for that program was special for me from a personal point of view but generally speaking I would say look we all need allies and I agree with you I believe everybody deserves a chance.
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Jody23:52
Right. Okay so you were talking about Hock Tan being your mentor. Yes. So, I want to talk a little bit about Hock. Give us the inside scoop. So, you know, I mean, Hock has this he's a legend in the industry. He has an unbelievable track record of success. He's loved on Wall Street. So, tell us a little bit what it's really like. I promise not to tell anyone.
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Charlie Kawwas24:15
No, it's okay to tell everyone actually. Hock, first of all, is a phenomenal person. Obviously, he's an amazing leader and a visionary. But I want to tell you first about the story of when I told him I'd like you to be my mentor because remember what I said? I said, choose your mentor. Right? Okay. I think it's really important to do that. So, it was actually right here in this office. I came to see him and I said, 'Hey, Hock, this was 12 years ago. I said, you know, part of the success of my career is to always have somebody that I can go back to and have that person mentor me. And I'd like you to mentor me.' And he's like, 'What does that mean? I don't do that.' I said, 'Well, you're going to do that. I chose you to be my mentor, and so I'm just going to come back to you and ask you feedback, advice, questions.' Until this day, I keep learning every day from Hock. The beauty of Hock is he is a straight shooter. You always know where you stand with him. He's extremely decisive. That's one of the things I really learned from Hock is in engineering they teach you the opposite actually. In the engineering discipline, they teach you take your time, analyze, solve the equation, find the roots, and then move on. Well, in the business world, you don't have time to do that. If you do that, you end up last. And that's one of the beautiful things I learned from Hock is be very decisive and make mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes, but it's not okay to repeat these mistakes. So, I think we need a whole podcast just to talk about maybe a series of podcasts, but yeah, he's phenomenal. I learned so much from him. I'm very thankful.
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Jody26:11
Okay. What is the what's the worst single piece of truth that you had to share not only with your team but maybe with your boss? Yeah. Just that maybe a pivot that had to happen in the company or a disappointment on a product launch.
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Charlie Kawwas26:33
Um yeah, I remember it was my second week as the COO of the company. We were doing these crazy Zoom calls and I realized that the amount of backlog that's coming in was way ahead what the supply and global ops team can do. My global ops team at the time was literally panicking. They're like, 'We're getting all these orders. We can't we had at the time lead times, let's say, of call it 20 weeks. We cannot meet our SSDs or scheduled ship dates.' And I remember on the spot one of the things I learned from Hock, I made a
I said, 'We're extending lead times to 52 weeks.' And the global ops team was so happy. They're like, 'Wow, this is liberating. Now we have another 30 weeks to go plan it and secure the wafers, the substrates, the back end.'
And then I had to go to the business units and the sales organization and said, 'Hey, I've decided we're going to extend the lead time to 52 weeks.' And they were like, 'Oh my god, you're going to ruin this business. You're going to destroy it. You can't do that.'
And I said, 'Whoa, whoa, I better call Hawk and tell him I just decided to do this.' So, I called Hawk. I said, 'Hey, Hawk. Here's what happened. I decided to do that.' And you know what he said? He says, 'Great. Let's see how it goes.'
And that was it. And we never looked back. And so, that at the time was a faux pas. You just cannot single-handedly say, 'I'm changing what I promised you to do.' But given the situation we're living in, we had no choice, right? And by doing this, it gave us extra time to do it properly to help people who needed help, who were really missing that golden screw, which happened to be in certain cases our chips.
And so we and I personally learned a lot from that experience, but that was not an easy experience internally and externally.
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Jody28:43
Right. Right. So in this industry, that example is a perfect one, but in general risk is so much a part of our industry. I mean you're planning products for markets that may not even exist yet. I mean you take big risks and very costly risks. So how did you become comfortable with risk?
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Charlie Kawwas29:04
I would say it does get better with time. It does get better with time and it's true that the way you get better is by making mistakes. So, I learned that through working with many mentors and watching many leaders make decisions, especially I would say Hawk. But for me, it goes back to a concept I learned from Hawk called the sustainable franchise.
And it's really about focusing your business on what you're good at. And if you believe in certain markets that they'll be there for 10 years, you go invest in them because you believe that market will be there.
I'll give you an example, the hard drive business. During the LSI days, we thought it was going to be a perishable business and will be replaced by NAND. But that was I would say almost 20 years ago. 20 years later, we still need tons of hard drives businesses. So that's one of the 16 businesses that I manage.
And we keep doubling down on this business, innovating, taking it to the next level. And yeah, we do take risks in doing so. That's exactly what technology is about. And the semiconductor industry is about. But once you know a market and believe in that market and you believe you have the best engineers because technology comes from engineers. You believe that you have the best engineers and capabilities, we absolutely at Broadcom don't even blink. We'll double down and keep pushing and this formula has been working very well for us.
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Jody30:46
So, you talked early on about how important it is to just accept that you're going to fail in some things and that that's the only way that you get from point A to point B. But how do you deal with failure, especially when it's at scale or in the public eye? So, just maybe advice for people who are listening is that, you know, do you just pick up and dust yourself off or when do you know when to pivot when maybe that's telling you something that you actually do need to change?
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Charlie Kawwas31:13
That is true. Actually, one of the things, my best career advisor, by the way, is my wife. She's been my partner. She's the one who told me I should work for Hawk, by the way.
One of the things she told me about me is the power of no. And no sometimes means you failed. You tried to do something and the answer is no. And for me, if you succeed every time the first time, it means you left something on the table.
So somebody who has a perfect track record of success, depending how you define success, I think that person has left a lot on the table. So having some level of tension in your career, in your life, I think is a good thing because this is how we as humans get to extract the best out of us.
So when there's a project or a technology that we say here is the spec you got to meet and the team comes back after a month the first product review and they say oh yeah we can do it, we did not succeed in my book. That was a no. We failed. Which means we set the bar too low which means somebody else can catch up to us. So for me I believe there's seven levels of nos. If you get the seven levels of nos, okay, it means you got to do something different.
But if you fundamentally believe in something and you think you can get there you will trip. You will have challenges. Pick up yourself and move, but adjust, adapt. Going back to the adaptability theme, I think one of the most powerful things, at least one of my powers is I'm extremely adaptable.
And I learned that by growing in Bethlehem, going to Montreal, coming to the Bay Area, every time I had to do this work for different bosses, I had to adapt. And so for me, failure is part of the success.
J
Jody33:18
Okay. So, we're going to talk just a little bit about technology. So, I want to start with what would you, if you could change people's viewpoint about semiconductors and maybe adjust their understanding. What are one or two things you would like people to think differently about the semiconductor industry?
C
Charlie Kawwas33:36
First of all, we're not in the tortilla chips business. That's what most people think, right? Also, I really think the COVID experience and the AI experience has really changed not just our industry or Wall Street appreciation of what we do. I think it changed the entire world's appreciation of what we do.
People realize that building these unique things from all kinds of materials delivers magic and actually makes the world turn. So I think it's important for people to realize there is no world order the way we know it today, driving cars, having these wonderful mics, communicating over the internet or social media without these semiconductor chips that we build.
And I think with AI and as we move from sort of the digital AI world to the physical AI world, I think people will get to appreciate even more some of the awesome things that we do. So, I believe the semiconductor industry is at a turning point right now and I believe the next one or two decades this industry is going to flourish and we're so lucky that we're part of this industry.
J
Jody34:53
Right. Yeah. I feel very fortunate. So what do you think that we're underestimating about AI?
C
Charlie Kawwas35:02
I think we're completely underestimating what AI will do for us. I think for now people look at AI more as a tool. Oh, I can use ChatGPT or Gemini to ask a few questions and it gives me these beautiful pictures or videos, more of a toy. But I use AI tools honestly for work and personal level probably a dozen to two dozen times a day.
Interacting, think of it with an advisor, and this advisor is moving from high school level capabilities to bachelor degree to masters to PhD to a world-class expert with time. And I think it'll completely change healthcare. I think it'll completely change the way we take care of older people. I think it'll completely change the way we educate our kids and grandkids in the future. I think it'll also change and it has already started changing the way we as engineers.
J
Jody36:08
I was going to ask that, how is it implemented like within chip design at Broadcom?
C
Charlie Kawwas36:11
We started sort of a proof of concept a couple of years back just to see is there value here and if there is what are the right tools and which disciplines and domains in the engineering life cycle or product life cycle even not necessarily just engineering should we put it in. And then we fairly quickly realized wow this can drive a lot of efficiencies especially for our senior engineers.
And so we've decided a year ago that we're going to get that adopted not just for our engineers but even we use Google Docs, Gmail for example, we even now use it in all of our corporate infrastructure. So it is completely changing the way we work. I think this is just still the beginning.
I think in probably the next three to five years we're going to see a lot of chip design. Maybe not the entire design flow but a lot of portions of it especially validation will be completely automated. It's think of it as prior to EDAs how we actually used to circuit design. And then EDAs came and helped us. And so EDAs and other tools are going to take it to the next level using AI.
J
Jody37:29
Okay. And how do you think that engineers within Broadcom, those who have been here for 20 or 25 years, how did they adapt to this new way of doing things?
C
Charlie Kawwas37:36
So I tell you one of the things that at least in Broadcom today I see and I feel first on AI almost every engineer I've talked to, if they don't have access to AI tools they're like can I get access to AI tools. But that doesn't mean that it's effective or efficient in terms of the usage. So what I've decided to do I said okay show me how you're using it.
So I've asked the team to come in my office, pull up their laptops and show me how they're using it. So I've had field applications engineers come to my office. I've had software engineers, silicon engineers, and it's impressive to see how it changes their life, the experience.
Let's say I'll use the field application engineering example. We develop a chip, we give it to a customer, the customer builds a system around it and as they're starting to run it, certain things might not be working well. It could be our issue, it could be their issue, could be a software issue. So there's a log that comes out from the chip and the log is huge. It's pages and pages and pages of data. In the past, meaning last year or the year before, the engineers have to go through this and write scripts to extract certain things.
Now they take all of this log and just put it in this tool. And in literally minutes, minutes, not even days or hours, it comes back and says, 'Oh, there's a problem in this software code or you should do this or here is the issue that I discovered and you should go fix that.' Completely changes the way we do business. And so super excited about it.
N
Narrator39:17
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J
Jody39:50
So, we had a in December, we had a CEO council meeting, and there were three problems identified that could really decelerate or at least slow things down on the AI side. And the first one was capacity, meaning chip capacity. The second was memory. And then the third is energy. So my question is is there a fourth or fifth and then can we solve those three things?
C
Charlie Kawwas40:21
See these three things I think are solved as a function of time. So give the industry enough time, they will invest in building these fabs whether it's front end foundry fabs or even backend substrates and test. That's also an issue today. That's probably I would call it part of capacity but that's more back end than front end. Memory same thing, the problem is it takes two three years to build.
So I think with time in the next, and the same thing with power, it's just a question of time. So I think in two to three years I think we'll have capacities. Honestly I'm not worried about that. What I'm worried about is what happens in the next two years.
And I think despite these challenges is I think this is an opportunity to win, to succeed, to accelerate AI. So in the short term I think it'll be challenging but there will be capacity but it will not be enough to the demand that's coming in. The question is how much of this demand is what I call a DDQ, drop dead quantity, right? How much of that is really needed and that's versus anticipation of what you want.
So that's on the short term. On the long term, I really think we will have enough capacity, enough funding, all of that good stuff. I think personally, and that's one thing I've been really pushing forward is building an open ecosystem. I think what made the internet, for example, super successful or the electricity super successful is the fact that it's open.
It's not a single company or two companies in the world that can do it. It's a full ecosystem that brings all of us together, eight billion people. And yeah, not all eight billion people are going to innovate, but it brings us all and we get the smartest companies and people together and then be able to construct what I believe will be the open future AI systems of the world. And I think that is something I'm very passionate about and that's something we'll keep pushing forward with.
When I did my undergrad, my capstone project was on Ethernet. Okay. It was long time ago. Obviously, guess what? The rise of Ethernet again in cloud, but more importantly in AI, front end, back end, scale out, scale up, scale across networks is something I'm super passionate about. And so I believe in open platforms and I think that's how innovation gets accelerated and that's one of the things that I think it's important for us to keep pushing forward.
J
Jody43:05
Okay. So obviously you and I both get very excited about technology. You were showing me your game here, your toys. But you know with technology comes a lot of downside too. I mean, you look at all of the good that comes from social media and all of the bad that comes from social media. So, what do you worry about with AI? I mean, as a human being, what do you worry about with AI?
C
Charlie Kawwas43:33
Yeah. I mean, if we go back 25 years ago when the internet came out, even till today, there's the good, the bad, and the ugly today of the internet. There's a lot of great things that happen with the internet today, but there are really not so good things and bad things that happen with the internet. And I think the same thing with AI. AI is going to be used as a technology. I think it's a phenomenal technology. And by the way, it's a technology that's been around for decades. It's not a new technology, but now we have the means, the compute capability, the networking, the communications that actually can make it interact at a level that us as humans can find it beneficial.
So I think there's going to be a lot more good coming out of AI than bad. I think one of the things to be prudent with is how much autonomy we give AI because AI is very capable to make decisions. But if I look at it I would say maybe 90, 95% of AI I think will be used towards the good. There's going to be a very small portion as long as we can have ways to make sure that this is done properly. I think overall AI will be as awesome as having the internet.
J
Jody44:47
Okay, fingers crossed. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, you know, obviously success sometimes from the outside world, from the outside viewpoint looks seamless, even glamorous, right? And you're obviously a very successful leader in your company and in the industry. But it comes with a lot of sacrifice, too. Okay. It's not easy. So, talk a little bit. I mean, you have, you're obviously family is number one for you. So tell us a little bit about how, you know, some of the sacrifices that you maybe you had to make that you felt uncomfortable with and again what advice you would give people that think okay but family is so important to me how can I go off and you know pursue this dynamic career?
C
Charlie Kawwas45:33
Yes, you're right, there's no free lunch as they say. So I think for me it was really important to have the right partner. And so I was very lucky like I said and blessed to have met my wife in college. Got married very young, 33 years ago. And we both aligned that I'm going to go pursue the career side and she actually was very successful too in her career but when we started having kids it was very difficult to manage both of us working at the same time and we've got the three and four kids it was really unmanageable.
And I started then traveling, remember when I pivoted from engineering towards the business side. So, we both agreed she will do a much better job raising the kids than me raising the kids. And so we've agreed that I'll pursue this career. I'll really focus on it hard. And the downside of doing this is you won't be able to spend as much time as you'd like with your immediate family and your extended family. And it's a sacrifice you have to make. It's a decision you have to make I think as a couple and then ultimately as a family.
And for me it was the right thing to do. When we had to move from Montreal to the Bay Area that was another decision and sacrifice because we had my sister, we had my aunt, uncle, cousins, my wife's side of the family are all there. So this was a big move for us, it's a sacrifice not just for me but we made that decision for example as a family. I did not make that decision alone. We made it as a family. And you know what, I would say net net, we're happy with the outcome, turned out to be a great thing for the family and hopefully we can use the success to help many many other people especially in education.
J
Jody47:36
So you have four very well-adjusted children. And one son who followed you to Concordia, got his PhD, Nicholas, right? And so obviously you serve as a great role model to them. You think that they would say it was all worth it?
C
Charlie Kawwas47:53
I think you should ask them that question. You should ask them that question. I don't know what they would say. But for me, I think it gave us the opportunity to build on the lessons that I shared with you that I learned from my life and career and hopefully have them take it to the next level and you know, be even more resilient, but more importantly, I would say stay humble and help other people, especially in education.
J
Jody48:22
So, how do you at the end of the day, how do you define success and define a meaningful life?
C
Charlie Kawwas48:27
Yeah, actually that's a really good question and going back to the first question, success for me growing up in a small little town was not about money. So it doesn't mean if you have more money you're more successful and that's a lesson that is in my DNA and that's one thing that I know my children have.
And that's something I'm very proud that they value and same with my wife as well. So, for us, success was not disappointing the people you love. I think that's really important. So, family is important. For example, what I promised my parents to do and not disappointing them. And when my mom asked me, hey, you got to get over 90 and be number one, not disappointing her. For me, that's success.
Success is here when I'm with my team and we say we're going to be the first to market. We're going to bring this capability that nobody else can match for a year or two years. That's success. And then money, profits, everything else is important but is definitely secondary and really follows. If you lead the other way around, I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's not the way I've been raised or I model my career or my life with.
J
Jody49:51
Okay. Very good. Okay. So, I'm gonna, we're almost done. I'm going to do what I call the last tape out. So, I'm gonna just ask you a set of questions and just whatever pops into your mind.
C
Charlie Kawwas50:03
Okay. Sounds good.
J
Jody50:04
So, the first one I think is really fun. I've asked several people this, but if you had to be 25 all over again, would you want to be 25 when we grew up or would you want to be 25 today in the modern era?
C
Charlie Kawwas50:15
Very simple. When we grew up, I wouldn't change a thing. Would not change. Why is that? Are you kidding me? I think growing up interacting just human to human without all these wonderful toys around us was for me was precious, amazing. And I wouldn't give that up. This is when I graduated. This is the years when I got married. This is when I started having kids. And so I would not change a single thing.
J
Jody50:43
Okay. All right. So, what is a book or an idea that you return to again and again?
C
Charlie Kawwas50:47
Actually, there's a really cool book I read and I still go back to. It's called The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari. You should check it out. Really amazing book. It's about timeless wisdoms. And it was about a CEO who sold his Ferrari and became a monk. So, check it out.
J
Jody51:07
I'm going to check it out. Okay. All right. So, what is the one thing that you want your team to say about you?
C
Charlie Kawwas51:14
You know what? For me, it's not that important what they say about me. I would say it's more important of what they do. Especially when I'm not with them. And so that's one of the things I learned from one of my mentors who I mentioned was make sure you always do the right thing versus doing things right.
And we all including me up until I met this mentor during the Northell days. We were all taught do things right, do things right. And then until I met him and he explained to me the concept which is kind of obvious but because we're taught to do things right, especially as engineers, this is how you write your code. This is how you design your circuit. I learned from him especially in running a business you have to do the right thing and so that's what I always tell my team.
And so honestly it doesn't really matter what they say about me it doesn't matter. What matters now, it matters what my mom says about me what my wife says about me, my children, that's different but really at work it doesn't really matter what matters is are we doing the right thing for the employees, shareholders, customers. That's what matters.
J
Jody52:30
What do you want your kids to say about you or think about you?
C
Charlie Kawwas52:32
What do I want them to say about me? Good dad. That's it. Two words.
J
Jody52:39
Okay. Okay. Yeah, I bet they do.
C
Charlie Kawwas52:41
I hope so.
J
Jody52:43
So, what is a quote or mantra or philosophy that you try to live by?
C
Charlie Kawwas52:48
I would say be decisive, adapt, and go.
J
Jody52:54
Okay. So, what's a daily ritual that keeps you grounded?
C
Charlie Kawwas52:59
Three things. First, when I get up I exercise. I think that just for me I learned that during COVID by the way. Yes. COVID gave me that opportunity and I love it. Second thing I do I call my mom and it has to be on video. And third thing is before I go to bed I pray.
J
Jody53:23
Okay. Nice. Nice. So if you weren't doing what you're doing today what would you be doing?
C
Charlie Kawwas53:31
I would say probably teaching. Yeah, I enjoy that.
J
Jody53:37
Yeah, I can imagine you'd be a great teacher. Thank you. So, anyway, I've enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. It's been really fun and I think it's great to know that behind the technology there's a deeply human story. So, I loved your story and I'm sure the audience is going to as well.
C
Charlie Kawwas53:56
Thank you so much, Jody. I appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you.