What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Hillary Duff, welcome to Call Her Daddy.
Girl, I know you have been busy. I know. You're on tour. You have an album coming out for the first time in 10 years.
I feel like my friends are really sick of me actually on their feed. They're like, 'We don't ever see you.' And now we just our like Instagram is just full of you. And like the internet is Hillary Duff right now. Every single time I open Instagram, TikTok, anything, I'm like, 'Okay, Hillary.'
You're like, 'I get it. She's back. I get it.' How are you feeling about it, though?
Honestly, I'm enjoying it a lot. And I couldn't have asked for like a better welcome, you know? Like everything has feel like felt so like celebratory and like kind and like energized. Like I just that that's just like the word that I keep coming back to where I'm like wow I really didn't realize it was such an appetite. And like I'm you never know how it's going to go. Like I really took a huge break and the first steps have been like a dream. So but it's super hard and like the back half that's not shiny is like a lot of moving parts and a lot of scheduling and a lot of work and a lot of like you know I have four kids and a family that I really like being with.
So that's what I'm so excited to talk to you about today cuz I think there's probably so many women who are like we know we can't technically do it all but it really looks like you're literally doing it all. Also I thought it was funny. I was researching this morning and everyone's kind of calling this like the Hillary Duff Renaissance. Like every they're like she's back. In what ways for you has this kind of felt like a rebirth or like a reintroduction of you?
It's this like combination of like forever my husband and I were just like this is going to be a sick victory lap. And we kind of kept calling it that. And it's really cool to be at this stage of my life and just have ownership over myself and like what I feel about things and my opinion and what I will and won't do and like not knowing and having to ask and like just this whole like I'm just so much better and like clearer and like to get to have the opportunity to go back and like celebrate things that, you know, I didn't feel like were mine anymore. Um, is like I'm just really looking forward to it.
Can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by like you didn't feel like they were yours anymore?
That it see it's kind of seems heavier than it is. But even like thinking about what my set list is going to look like and what songs I'm going to be comfortable putting on, you know, actually doing with my body on stage and or like singing lyrics of songs that are 20 years old and being like, what is how do I how do I show up and like just make this me? And I think before rehearsals it felt like those weren't quite mine yet and I didn't know how to make them that way. And then I was like just started tearing it up and I was like got it. I am here to eat and like it's easy and I feel far enough removed from it that I'm not like embarrassed or uncomfortable. Like they're mine and they're mine to keep. And like even the with love dance, like that was like a like the internet lore around the with love dance.
So good. But like for me, horrifying. Like absolutely horrifying. But like now I'm like this is I get to be a part of it and it's way more fun.
Which I think is life. Like I've interviewed so many people that were child stars and it feels like a pretty prominent theme in a lot of your lives is like having enough distance from that really really loud time in your life that everyone remembers you from to be or just that everyone can dig up.
Yes. Yes. Like, wow. I would I would love for like it's just it's a hard you got to be tough, you know, because that is to grow up and have everybody to like recall all of your all of your like chapters is a wild experience and have footage and pictures and commentary, tabloids, like everything you could imagine that like everyone when they were in their awkward middle school phase that were like, 'Thank God like I didn't post that picture.' You're like, 'Well, it was posted at me. I didn't have an option.'
Correct. And I feel like what's so underrated is like you have had decades of sustaining a career, which is very few people are able to maintain that.
I feel like that's really nice. And there's been a lot of highs and lows in my career.
Okay. Well, we're going to go through all of them, but I did want to just I was going to quote you cuz I'm like I get it. Like you've done moments where you're kind of like more in the spotlight versus not, but you told Vogue last year that you operate from a place of does anyone still care about me? I wanted you to talk a little bit more about what you meant by that.
I think there being a child actor and doing something that made such a big mark on people's like literal soul created a lot of confusion and like a pretty big battle scar on me where I'm like do people feel that like playing a role on TV that never grows up like she's just there forever right and so getting into my like late teenhood into like my early 20s and even like early 30s where I feel like the battle of like frustration that like do people love me or do they love that character? But yet everywhere I go people, you know, say you raised me or like whatever. And like now I'm like confident enough and like fine enough and I think I love my new work enough to where I can like celebrate the old. Um you just feel like wow will I ever do anything that will like resonate with someone the same and then you carry that as like a you're not good enough or it wasn't you know but meanwhile like I've had an amazing career like younger was career highlight.
Love that show. Love that show. So fun. People didn't really find it until it was like done.
But like that was a huge part of my something that I said yes to that was really scary because I had to like be in New York and be away from my child and like but like a huge growth period for me of like, oh, I'm doing something good and like stop measuring like I don't have to continue to measure all of my projects and the success that they've had.
It's interesting you say that because I feel like some musicians I've talked to if they had a number one hit ever come out then they're like because you come out of the gate so strong which a lot of people are envious of but you're like but now that's kind of the barometer of like where I have to hit and having a Lizzie McGuire moment you're like changed your life changed so many other people's lives but now it's like I hear what you're saying you're like can I ever live up to that which is why I think this era is so exciting for your fans.
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile. Okay, Daddy gang. I am starting to think a night in may actually be the new nightlife. Uh, where am I in my life right now? Okay, I have been working so much lately that all I want to do at the end of a long day is hang out on my couch. There is just nothing better than getting into comfy clothes, pulling out some of my favorite snacks, curling up with Henry and Bruce and Matt. You can join too, Matt. And doing absolutely nothing. And on those nights in, T-Mobile has me covered with value that keeps on stacking up the more I use it. Like streaming benefits and snack perks that truly deliver. The math is mathing. With so many perks and benefits, T-Mobile is basically making staying in a lifestyle. So, you know what? I love you even more now, T-Mobile. Okay, my go-to recently has been popping on a reality TV show, ordering a whole pizza, and hitting next episode all night long with a side of ranch. Okay. And if you have T-Mobile like I do, you won't believe how good staying in can be. Check it out at T-Mobile.com/magenta. Status. Disclaimer: Streaming benefits included while you maintain a qualifying line in good standing. Basically, today I'm like, we need to give a little nostalgia, and then though I do really today want to get to know you more as the woman Hillary Duff because I agree you've talked so much about your younger years.
I love to visit her now. I'm I'm good with it.
Okay, let's go back to people who may not be familiar. You initially get the role of Lizzie McGuire. Can you just like kind of lightly tell the story of how that audition went and how you even got the role?
Yes. So, I actually had been replaced off of a TV show that was an ABC show. Um, and they replaced me with twins so they could like work longer hours. And I was like, yeah, I was probably 10 years old and I'm like I got fired. Like, can you imagine? Cuz there not two of you. Yeah, that is by the way, when you're a child actor, you're like, you need two of me. Okay, how do I make that work? Like, you're like a dog, like just want to please, you know? So, that was really devastating. And I was like, I want to go home. I don't want to be in LA anymore. I went back to Texas, started going to real school, and my mom called me and she was like, they want to see you for Lizzie McGuire. And I I I had auditioned for a bunch of Disney Channel shows before, so they were like familiar with me and called me a lot. I never booked any of them. Um, and I was like, 'No, whatever.' And somehow I got out to California. They like I changed my mind. I I got to see my friends for the weekend, like my Oakwood apartment, LA friends. And I was not prepared. It was a pretty big monologue, the audition. And I used to be pretty prepared and take auditions seriously. And I was like 0% prepared. And Robin Lipins, the casting director, was like, 'You didn't even look at this.' And I was like, 'Correct.' Like, 'Sorry.' She's like, 'Can you come back tomorrow and know this?' And I was like, 'Oh, challenge accepted. Let's go.' And I worked on it. Came back ripped in there. She was like, 'What are your special talents?' I was like, 'Oh, I prefer to walk on my hands more than my feet.' Like I think I was just wacky and they were and like I think I came in with like mismatched clothing cuz that was very me and then I got it.
Wait. And how old were you when this was happening?
I think I must have been like 11 turning 12 or had just turned 12. And then we shot the pilot and then didn't shoot for a while. So I remember like not getting my hopes up. I remember my mom being like, 'Don't get your hopes up. Remember like what can happen. Like it's exciting. We're going to be excited.' But like not getting fired at like 10 years old from a job at first. Like that'll scar you. You're like or being the star of the TV show. This TV show is literally called Lizzie McGuire and you're like hope it gets picked up and if it doesn't like I'm a failure. Probably I sucked. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Like no pressure as an 11-year-old basically 12. How do you think playing Lizzie as it continued like started to kind of shape and inform your personality?
I think that she was kind of like the everybody's girl and I also feel like I've always been that. So um and also like a little I have this very weird mixture of like I'm always been confident in who I am. Um, and I think that she had that, but she was also like kind of dorky and had all these she didn't really fit under one category. And you know, that's why I think she was so like lovable and endearing. And I feel like I've also still kind of carry that, but I just can like dress chic sometimes.
You're like, my fashion has gotten better. Thank you very much. Lovely you, Lizzie. But I moved on. Okay. You can say over there, I actually look chic as You do. Um, obviously I'm thinking about you even just being like, 'Oh my god, like growing up in Texas and all this.' Like then the show becomes a massive success and you quickly become one of the most famous young women in the world at the time. Like do you have any core memories of realizing like, 'Oh my god, I'm now like famous. Like people know me.'
Yeah. I was at the Fashion Square Mall like about to hang out with my friends which we did all the time and there were Beverly Center too. There was like posters of Lizzie McGuire on the like circulating things and I get like mobbed by kids and like somebody that works at the mall like sticks me in basically like like a cleaning closet or like some some like closet where they keep supplies or like and just like pulls me into the back and they're like, 'You need to call your mom or call someone to come and pick you up.'
Yes. Hey, mom. Um we forgot that like I'm basically famous now.
I'm in the broom closet of the mall. Like, 'Can you come get me? I'm trying to act like a normal girl and it's not working out for shit.'
And then after that, did you realize like maybe I can't go those? But then the other thing that was happening was like it wasn't that cool to be a Disney kid yet. Like now you're a Disney kid and you have like this massive career. That wasn't really It's not like you had like mad respect cuz you had a Disney Channel show and you were like starting to be a singer. Like that was pre everything. Um, talk to me about your life at home. You become this big star. Like how did it impact your normal life at home?
Honestly, it didn't until later. Like some things changed later, but like but my mom was pretty strict. She she had this like weird combination of like she trusted us, but she was like, 'You don't get special treatment cuz you're on a TV show.' You know, like we had been we had been out here kicking around for like four years pre me getting Lizzie McGuire. Um, so like she would I remember she would like take my cell later when I was like 18. I remember she tried to take my cell phone away and I like sassed her so bad and I was like I pay the bill. She was like absolutely not.
She's like sit down. You're like okay.
I feel like there's kind of like this known reputation you have as one of the few child stars who escaped the major pitfalls of Hollywood. Do you feel that way? Like do you feel like you got out pretty unscathed?
Yeah. I think that there's no I think that people look at me and think like, 'Oh, she's had it easy, maybe.' And I definitely have not had it easy. Um, but I feel okay. Like I really just feel okay. I'm like I did not like go crazy, I guess. Um, and I think that a lot of that could have to do with my upbringing and feeling, you know, like I was protected when I was a child. Um, but this industry is like really hard. And it's not until you're like you take some space away from it that you can zoom in and be like, 'Oh, that was a weird thing that happened. Oh, that was how did I get through that?' That, you know, there's there's that. And I I think it's taken getting to this age to be like give myself like actually take some credit for how I navigated it.
What do you think for you internally? Like not all the noise, not all the people around you. What internally did you have to tap into to kind of get through that period in your life?
So, it's tricky and again it's been something that I've been able to like dive more into through like therapy and really being like, well, why did I do that? Or how come I feel this way? And if I whatever. Like the thing that was also cool about it is being a teenager and you're like I don't give a I just want to hang out with my friends. Um you know like I had a desire to just be like normal and be doing normal kid things or teenager things and adult things. So, um, it was this weird those things were like existing at the same time. And I think it was like a reprieve from not being able to like fully grow up or take the reigns was like just escaping with the normal part of my life that I could go to.
Yeah, that makes sense. You kind of have to like find your outlet.
Yeah. And I like, you know, cared about my boyfriend and just like all that other stuff was annoying to me.
Yeah. And then eventually you would deal with it.
Um, okay. Let's go through. We're about to move on from this younger phase of your life, but I do need to know a couple things. Okay. Are you ready? Okay. You're like, I don't know. What are you about to ask me? Okay. Did you intentionally crash the Freaky Friday premiere?
Oh my god. The lore around this, Hillary. Um, I think absolutely. Yes. Yeah. I was a teenager.
Wait, were you surprised when Lindsay Lohan showed up to the Cheaper by the Dozen premiere?
No. No. I mean, that was like my childhood fe like like Nemesis. So crazy. I know. Which I mean I can't wait. I'm sure my publicist be like, 'What the are you doing?' But now it's so many years later, like, who cares? It does not matter. Also, like Lindsay came up to me at a club once and was like, 'Are we good?' And I was like, 'We're good.' She was like, 'Let's take a shot.' I was like, 'Okay.' It was amazing. But also like Chad Michael Murray invited me. Why? What? He I don't want to start any more stuff, but like he was like, 'You should come with me.' And I was like, 'Mhm, probably I should.'
Mhm. Honestly, I mean, what was I like six? No, I think I was younger than that. The millennial girls are screaming at their TVs right now. Next. Is it true that you had military training for your role in Cadet Kelly?
They really took it that serious. I just need you to know that I literally bought I think I could still do like a rifle. You got a rifle in here?
Oh, no. But I think you remember I think I would remember some of the like tap tap how you like handle it and like flip it around and it was basically like a baton kind of but with well there was baton in that batons. Oh yeah. Oh, I remember. Yeah. We were at a dance studio in Toronto. I remember. And like Christy Carlson Romano and I would like walk from this hotel that they put all the like actor kids up in in Toronto and go to this like dance studio down the street and it was really intense.
That movie was doing our own stunts. Girl, it was so good. I remember I like bought cargo pants and like was trying to be like that vibe and I was like what am I trying to do? Like I was in Pennsylvania like literally trying to be you and I was like I need to stop. Um okay, next. This is one of my favorites. You had an onscreen romance with Penn Badgley in Gossip Girl. I will never forget where I was when I found out Miss Hillary Duff was going to be in season 3 of Gossip Girl. I was shook.
Season 3. I know. I looked it up cuz I forgot there was like 90 episodes per season. How were you approached for the role and like why did you want to do it?
I was approached by the creators of the show and they were just like, 'We would love to have you on Gossip Girl.' And I was like, I love Gossip Girl. And Yes. And by the way, I grew up with Penn Badgley.
Yeah. So, I grew up at this like apartment complex called Oakwood Apartments. And he was a Lakeside kid, but sometimes we would like all hang out. It'd be like if you went to Campbell Hall, but someone goes to Oakwood and you like all.
And was this like little actor vibes or just like normal kids and you just happen to.
Some kids were normal. Most of them were actors.
Okay. So, you were like you knew him immediately when you stepped on set.
Yeah. But honestly, that was a tough I think they were kind of all sick of each other by the time I got there. It wasn't like, 'Oh my god, we're hanging. It's fun.' I was like, 'Oh, I'm showing up to a job.' And Right. You're like, 'Tension is pretty high right now.' I felt pretty high. Yeah.
We need to talk about the threesome that shocked the world. Because when I tell you that threesome, I was like, to those who don't remember, it was Dan, Vanessa, and you. And the world was so pissed. Do you remember the world got really pissed?
Because they were trying to force the Dan and Vanessa romantic vibe and we were like, 'Stop trying to make it happen. It never should happen.'
And then I think you were in the threesome like hanging out in the corner and Dan wasn't like he was going for Vanessa more. I need to rewatch this.
I was going to say, do you know, can you tell I've watched this like a million times? Amazing. I was getting like the the shaft.
You were getting the shaft because it was like Dan and Vanessa like finding their romance and you were like, Dan, like why am I even here? Like you're like, I'm the famous one. Wasn't I like a famous actress? You were famous girl in it. Um, but I have to tell you something funny that happened and sometimes this happens when I'm in Europe and like Lizzie McGuire happened later after my music in like Europe.
Oh yeah. And so I wasn't like totally known for Lizzie McGuire there right away. It was more like my music stuff and then some people I think Lizzie McGuire got huge there eventually whatever. I was in Paris not too long ago on a girls trip with two of my best friends and my bag didn't make it and the girl at the airport was like, 'Are you from Gossip Girl?' And I'm like, 'Yeah.' And I get obsessed when things like that happen. So sometimes like weird Gossip Girl fanatics.
We That's so good. You must be so happy in that moment. You're like, 'Yes, I am from Gossip Girl.' I don't remember what my name was. I don't remember what my lines were, what my scenes were, but I was there.
I don't remember what my name was.
So fun, dude. That fandom is so funny.
I was like, 'So, can you get me my bag quickly?'
Yeah. Cuz I was like, 'In Gossip Girl.' They're like, 'Is that Lizzie McGuire?' You're like, 'No, Gossip Girl.' Honestly, so good. Um, okay. I heard that the actor who played Ethan Craft invited you to his high school formal in real life. Did you go?
I went to a lot of high school formal formals.
And at that point, you're famous. Mhm. How did that work?
The school was really excited that I was there. And I was just like, 'Yeah, I'm excited to be here. I didn't go to high school or middle school.'
You're like, 'I'm taking it in.'
Yeah. I'm like, 'Look at all these people grinding on the dance floor. Me, too. Let's go.' Did people leave you alone?
Like I think enough. And also you going with the Ethan Craft character is kind of a mind because people were probably like.
Okay. And did you guys ever have a thing behind the scenes? Okay. No. Ethan wasn't your vibe.
But he did have a parrot that scared me at his house that like.
Yeah. I showed up to the house and like I didn't know that I was like standing behind a giant bird cage and the parrot like literally punked me and was like boo. And I was like oh my god. And like the parent parent like knew how to like scare.
Ethan. Good old Ethan. I only I'm like Ethan. Ethan and Kate. Okay. Um, were you and Aaron Carter already dating before his cameo on Lizzie McGuire or did that like bud on that set?
We weren't dating. Also, this is where like all this stuff started. There was no social media to be like who was dating who, right?
God. Yeah. Yeah. No. So, you just take people's word for it and then like people get mad at you.
I mean, if you're like Lindsay Lohan or me and he's like probably dating both of us, like, you know what I mean?
Oh, I see. I see. Like, you could put up an Instagram story. No.
Well, we're clarifying now.
Also, texting was like pushing three buttons to get the like Yeah.
T9. Oh my god. You and Cinderella story like, 'Hey, what's up today?' And it just filmed like a social like one of the like a TikTok. Yeah.
Of that doing something for something else and I'm we're sitting there trying to get the LOL to come up and I'm like swiping at the screen and someone was like you need to stop doing that. It's what this like old flip phone cell phone to get LOL you have to be like 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 It's so crazy. I called my son downstairs who's 13 and I was like I just want you to watch what this used to be like for us.
He was like I don't care.
He's actually so sweet and he if he doesn't care he acts like he does.
You're like, 'Look what mommy had to do.' That means like we were dedicated. If you had a text that you wanted to send on T9, if you sent a paragraph, you were in love with someone.
I know. No, I know. It was like that was a lot of effort.
That was a lot. And what about when you would make a typo and like have to go and then you back and the whole thing? No, no, no. It was dedication through and through.
Okay. So, sorry. Back to Aaron Carter. I had met him at his birthday party. I got invited to his birthday party. I'm telling you, the Olsen twins were there. Who else would have been there? I thought it was going to be like this huge list I could get you excited by. Like, but it was the Olsen twins.
Okay. Yeah. So, that's all that matters. We're like happy.
Um, maybe Amanda Bynes was there.
Yeah. I mean, it was like the OGs.
Oh my god. On his birthday. So, I met him there. There was like some cute sparks and then I think I pitched the idea of having him come on the show and then like we started dating pretty soon after that. I need everyone to go rewatch because I just did it this morning while I was putting my makeup on.
The I want candy moment where you and Miranda are in the corner and you keep doing this thing where you're like putting your hand in your hair.
You know, it's so good cuz you can tell you like kind of like him and he's like, I want in a full silver jumpsuit. Full silver jumpsuit. Your hair is like And then your hair's all crimped up crimped. And you keep going like this when he comes over to you. Hillary, it's actually I it's like an actual landmark on the internet. Like I need everyone to go watch it because it's so cinematic. Also, it like holds up. It was amazing. Okay, good to know. Okay, last last one. Lizzie McGuire movie. It's important that you know like to this day, peak cinema. Peak cinema. Like also back to you getting fired for not being a twin. Hi. Hello. You got your revenge because you ended up playing two characters.
Yes. My four-year-old is very like, 'How? But how? How did you do that?' I'm like, 'You're like, Don't worry.' Okay. Wait, so have they seen the movie?
Yes. My four-year-old just watched it on a plane.
I know. And when it was over, she just goes, I she was sitting next to my assistant and she was like, 'Again?'
No. All of us. She's literally all of us again. Do your other kids like the movie? Um, Banks is like a Lindsay Lohan stan.
No. Yeah. No, honestly, Banks is like my number one like cheerleader to the max. So, like she obviously like doesn't know any of that stuff. I know. So, it's I know. It's actually amazing.
Yeah. Um, what is their favorite project of yours?
I've not asked that. I don't know.
You don't know? No. Have you showed them everything?
No. I'm not like, let's go down. Sit. Everybody sit down.
I forget I forget that it's like not cool of a mom to be like now let's watch my next project. But for me I'm like they haven't seen Cheaper by the Dozen.
I think Luca probably has seen Cheaper by the Dozen. I think he was probably more interested in that cuz it was like Boys and Frogs and like football and you know things like that. But um they've seen some of it. Um my same assistant put on like Bunked the other day. I know. And I was like, 'You should probably be putting on the Lizzie McGuire.'
You're like, 'What are you doing?' You're like, 'You're a traitor. What is this?' Turn on Cinderella Story now.
Oh, wow. Okay. Well, we need to know when they actually My four-year-old has seen parts of Cinderella story and she's basically like, 'Can we just get to the end with the dress?' And she doesn't understand the mask and how he didn't recognize me with that mask on. I know.
She's like, she that's you, mommy. And you're like,
'Yeah.' She's like, 'But how would he not know?' And I was like, 'No, I know. That's the age-old question, babe.'
That's the best part. That's the best part of the whole thing. Um, okay. Thank you for going down memory lane with me. That was very fun. You gave us all we needed to know. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Daddy gang. Let me just I'm going to set the scene. Okay. You are deep in the dating apps. You're starting to lose hope. And then suddenly there he is. 6'3", blue eyes, photos with a cute puppy, allegedly has a good job. And his prompt answers, they're actually low-key giving some personality. He checks all the boxes, but then you go on the date and the reality, he's 5'9", unemployed, and the dog was his ex-girlfriends that they share together. Sometimes you just don't know what you're getting into, okay? But if you're looking for a job, that is not the case on Zip Recruiter. Boom. Zip Recruiter includes all of the important info like salary and benefits upfront so you can decide if it's worth your time before you hit apply. The best part is you're not just endlessly scrolling. Zip Recruiter actually sends you great job matches within minutes and you can apply to most of them with just one click. Plus, most applications on Zip Recruiter are viewed within 48 hours. So, you're not stuck refreshing your email and spiraling. That's why it's the number one rated job site based on G2. Over 172 million people have used Zip Recruiter to find their next job. Why not you? You can start finding jobs right away at ziprecruiter.com/chd. Go to ziprecruiter and get all the info you need to land an amazing job. Just go to this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com/chd, right now to get started. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com/chd. I mean, you started working so young. You were like 11 years old and you lived so much life at such a young age. How did that impact what you were looking for and what you were ready for in your 20s?
Oh gosh. I was I was always like a relationship girl. So I was in like long-term relationships my whole life really. Um dating was not easy for me. Um and so around that time I met Mike. I met my first husband and we had so much fun. And that just felt like a really solid like place to land, you know.
Cuz you were 22 when you first got married.
Yeah. So I was like 19 when we met and we got married really young and then I had Luca so young and I think I was like very I always knew I was going to be a young mom. I always wanted to be a mom. I always wanted a lot of kids. Um, so that was really ex it was major. I mean that was a crazy time like to be 20 like pregnant at 23 24.
How did you know you were ready for that with your career?
I didn't care about my career at that point. Mike was playing hockey. I was like going to live with him for like months at a time wherever he would play. And we were just like having fun and I didn't really care that much about my career.
Yeah. Having been so young and lived so much life, like what did it mean to you when you had a child? Like what like when you had Luca, like did it change everything for you?
Yeah, big time. I was so excited to have him to focus on. Um my life had been like so about me and like I didn't want all of that. I wanted I think just something that felt like tangibly mine to hold on to and to focus on and um yeah it was really fun. It was also really confusing. I had not a single friend who had a baby or was pregnant because obviously I was so young. My friends were like are you serious teen mom? What are you doing?
We can you talk about that because I think that's like very relatable where a lot of my audience is either the girl that is having the baby that none of their friends are at that stage or the reverse where all their friends are having kids and they're not like how did that impact your friendships?
Well, my friends were all going out and stuff and I was like I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah. Um and that was kind of hard but I didn't really care about that as much. It was just um I think all the physical changes were a big deal for me. Um I think I gained like 50 lbs. I was pregnant with him and I'm 5'2". So that was like a wild just like oh my god, what has happened to me? Um, but I'm trying to think, one of my best friends, we've been friends for 20 years now. I remember she walked into my door late and I was like, I think you expect everyone to get it when you have a baby and no one gets it and you're like this m like all of a sudden I'm on a schedule and like if you don't know what it's like to be on a schedule cuz you don't have like a family yet 20 minutes late I'm like this isn't like us a year ago. This is me now where like my b like I like nursing a baby is not just like oh you're like my milk's coming in and I've got to get like get this out. You know what I mean? And then the baby goes down for a nap and if that doesn't happen I get not a single minute to my day. You know what I mean? So like looking forward to seeing your friend and then them being late. You're like it's over. We can't hang. And and then also the nerves of like be now I would be like come it's all good but you're it's your first kid. Your first kid know what you're doing. Yeah. You're just nervous. So my friend sorry the the part of the story was that my friend like watched me like nurse my baby. My boobs were like huge and you're you know it's all like clunky and new and whatever. And she text me and she was like I don't even it's crazy to not recognize you. And I was like, 'Oh my god, I know.' And later I was like, 'You hurt my feelings so much by saying that, but I know you didn't mean it. Like, it must look insane, right? Like I'm like nursing a baby and we've like grown up together and now this like crazy thing happened.'
It feels like you're like a new person to her and really all you probably need in that moment is to feel like eat a salad and have a hang. Yes. And like not feel like you're this outsider because everyone in your life is still I want to hear who you just hooked up with and I wanted like things to be normal but nothing's normal, right? Can you also share a little bit more about like how your body image was affected by pregnancy? Cuz I think that's like I have never had a kid and I do I would love to have kids at one point, but I think for women it's so hard because it's like you're expected to be everything for everyone and you go through this like extreme change in your life. And women then it's like the bounce back thing and what do you look like? Like how did you manage all of that?
I don't know because I dealt with a lot of I I remember being I think in Mexico with my mom or something um like 4 months after I had Luca and we had like a private home there that we were staying at and a paparazzi got a picture and they were like Hillary debuts post-baby bod and I was like babe I'm not debuting anything. You're taking a picture of me at a private house when I think I'm with my family and my baby and like it's horrendous. So that's like so messed up and I feel like it's getting better and as I've had subsequent kids like you're just like, 'Oh, I recognize this. I know what it is.' It's hard to get through this phase, but it's all like it's all fleeting. You know what I mean? And so the more times I've done it, the less like weight it has with like dealing with your body changing and you kind of I don't you know normal people don't have to like have the noise, but you're sensitive. It's really hard. You look different, you know, forever. Um, you're like feeding a child and you're supposed to know exactly what to do and you don't know exactly what to do and things don't always work out the way you know we're the pressure to feel like a natural mother like is is a lot you know um
You had mentioned I think that you um like nursing for you in the beginning was difficult and again like as women if you if it doesn't go exactly as they tell you on the internet and according to plan like sometimes there can be like shame around that like how did that impact your self-esteem.
I still could cry thinking about like h just not being able to be you want to be everything for your kid because you grow them and you birth them and they're yours and you watch you know reels of like people just nursing their baby in public and it being so natural and like it just wasn't like that for me and I every time you like we would like weigh this was with Towns mostly but like she wasn't gaining weight and I'm trying to like nurse her literally round the clock and that's my fourth kid like just supplement. What are you doing? Like you know and you're just like I was so stubborn about it. I just wanted I wanted it to work out and it didn't. And like then you're 2 weeks out of like not nursing and you're like yes this is the best freedom ever. But in that moment you're like how will I ever cope with this? How will I why can't I be good at this? Um, and you know, I Luca, I nursed him the most. It was easier then and like down the line I just each child got less and less and less. And now I'm like, who cares? But in in the moment, it's like you're so consumed. And I think by design, right? Like we're designed to take care of our child by feeding them from your body. But like guys have to do one thing one time. That's what my husband says. He's like, 'I did one thing one time and like you have to do all of these things and then it's all on you, which is a lot.'
And I even have friends I know that will be watching that are going through that phase right now that it's like it is helpful to hear from someone so many people look up to and grew up with that they're at a similar stage right now where it's like hearing other women talk about it I think is like half the battle cuz it is so isolating and to just hear you even say like it actually got better as I just kept going cuz even if it didn't actually get better I got better at handling how hard it was um which is life right. Speaking of hard things. So, you're in a different place than your friends. You're a young mom. There's scrutiny online. Your body, you're figuring all this out. And then you go through a divorce.
And your child is not even two. Not even two. Um, without obviously I know you have a co-parenting dynamic and I don't want to speak at all negatively about him. Um, how did you know that it was time to walk away and that the marriage was over?
Oh gosh. It just got to a point where it wasn't gonna it wasn't going to be like we we just I think he was good with it because I was like here's this this this like you know and he was like great like we're this was before conscious uncoupling was a thing and my parents went through such a bad divorce that I was like calling it made it really painful but like we're not together anymore so obviously it was bad enough that it just wasn't it wasn't working. Um, and that was a really tough call because we had not even 2-year-old kid. Um, and I remember doing everything in my power to like have it be peaceful and have us hanging out and spending time together. And every time we would, you know, trade, it wouldn't just be like a drop off pickup situation. And we would like go to the park and hang or go have a meal. Um, it was really important to me to to do it in a way that Luca could feel like comfy. Um, I can't remember the exact time I was like going to call this, you know, but um, it happened pretty fast. It was just it was a like, you know, it was not it wasn't working anymore. Mhm. But I remember the one thing that was really hard about it was like processing that it was happening and it was going to happen and going through all of those emotions and it was a really it was a really scary time to just not want to up your kid. You know what I mean? You put like all of your stuff aside and I had to like deal with all of that later to just make sure that like he was okay. And then you know you file for divorce and TMZ literally has like an office at the LA courthouse so they see every single paper that goes through. So like within 50 minutes they're like reporting and then you have to like process it along the world alongside with the world you know.
I did not realize that about TMZ. That's actually insane. Yeah. But like when do you think and how did you do it in terms of like almost like mourning what you thought your life was going to look like I think is very relatable. And then you kind of don't have control over it. You had to make a decision for you and your family and your kid. Like when do you think you were able to actually mourn that loss essentially?
I haven't ever thought about that. I think probably when I started like dating again. Um and like my divorce was finalized and we were you know co-parenting and stuff like I I think it was just something I I I had a lot of therapy like I that was a very helpful tool to help like confront the feelings that would come up you know I was 26 27 no I was 27 28 And that's like such a crazy time, you know, like that's a very fun time of your life. And I started to like allow myself to have fun through something really painful. And I feel like that's actually a very heavy theme in my life. Like this record, there's a lot of like heavy themes disguised as like joy because it's pop music. And I feel like that is a huge part of like how I operate. Like this big thing can be happening over here and it's really hard and it's a struggle and I'm going to sort it out and sometimes I might push it down and deal with it later or like I'm going to be tackling it right now. But like I genuinely am like such a happy person that I seem to be able to like get through things.
That's how you clearly survive those hard moments, right? You're like I'm going to choose to see the positive in life to keep it moving. Also, I think I knew from my parents' divorce that like
I was going to show my kid that you got to fight for your happiness. And I knew that it was going to be better to do it when he was younger than it was going to be when he was like five and aware or eight and aware. And then kids put like a whole different element of like guilt on themselves for like their marriage not working out. I was like, if Luca cannot remember this and have two lives that exist that he can be happy in and feel like secure in, I think we're winning.
