We talked about pain. I won't say it's necessary for success, but if you've endured pain, it gives you a lot of courage, which is a good thing.
What is your story? Where did that struggle come from?
Look, struggle and pain are two different things. I've been quite impressed by the idea of building a social media platform in India. Based on my experience, give me advice on what I should keep in mind while building this, staying at Facebook, and now having a big personal brand. Is there room to build such a social media platform for India's youth in today's era? It's a difficult question.
When should we start recording? Oh, it's on. Okay, perfect. Do you monetize the podcast?
No. No ads, no sponsorships, nothing. Instead, I get guests to donate to their favorite charities, and we match it. So we have a grand program. I'll tell you what kind of charity it is.
I don't want to hear it. Our goal is to help those kids in India who want to start their own businesses but don't have startup capital. In India, even a small amount like 500 or 100,000 rupees is very hard to get.
But how do you choose who to give it to? That's a very difficult task, right? Because if you just give money, you're making things more difficult for those who perhaps shouldn't get it.
There, no one has anything. I mean, we're talking about a completely different environment where things like risk capital don't exist.
And do you take 7% like YC?
No, no equity, nothing. It's just a grant.
Oh, it's just a grant and they don't have to pay the money back.
They don't have to pay the money back.
Wow. But this is a very good thing you're doing. How many people join this program?
About 12 to 15 people every two months.
And has anything interesting come out of it? I mean, has anyone succeeded?
Yes. Quite a few people. For example, there's a packed protein company called Possible, which is now probably worth 40-50 million. There are three or four other 50 million dollar results that are quite significant.
Do they cover their own expenses or not? Or are you the only one funding?
Yes. Me, and whenever my friends want to join, they come in.
Does this give you happiness?
Not particularly, but I think it extends my reach to people I can work with in the future. Because when things don't work out and a startup shuts down, it's hard to find such people.
Yes, I agree. And are those people technical or not?
Mostly they are. And they are all under 25 years old.
Yes, that's a good point.
Yes. If I'm being honest, that's probably the biggest plus point. If you're young, it's great. Otherwise, it's difficult. You know, I've noticed one more thing in these kids. The ones who are too straightforward and submissive never succeed. But the ones with a bit of arrogance succeed quickly.
I completely agree with this. Absolutely.
Yes. I think you need that passion or the pain of the past. Pain is a great catalyst for capability. Some old enmity, pain, or anger. But look, a child who has been raised very well becomes a good person, but not a very big entrepreneur. In many cases, at least not at a mega scale. Because for that, you need a different level of ability to endure pain and suffering. And those who aren't used to pain don't want to endure it. Those who are used to it don't care and just keep moving forward.
Those who are used to pain probably need pain.
I think this is a strange way in which we feel normal. I've seen that when someone is used to drama in childhood, they seek drama even as adults.
I can understand this to a great extent. I can understand.
We should tell the audience today who Chamath is. In Chamath's own words.
Ah, so that's a difficult question.
I'm just an ordinary guy. I like games. I like risk, I like learning, and I like growing. And nothing else matters. Nothing at all.
What you like is your personality. Maybe what you don't like is your other side. What do you dislike?
To be honest, not much. I don't like staying in one place. And actually, that's probably what I hate the most. I don't think there's any benefit to doing things the old way. It's useless. Now, this isn't always a good thing. But I think the old way is still important in many cases. But if you look at it, it's better to keep using things.
We talked about pain. I won't say it's necessary for success. But if you've endured pain, it gives you a lot of courage. What is your story? Where did that struggle come from?
Look, struggle and pain are two different things. That pain came from my parents. That's it. I think it's the feeling of being unheard, which often happens in broken homes. And this isn't just my story. I think I've learned to forgive my parents. And the truth is, there was alcohol, abuse, and it was the result of those circumstances when you're going through a terrible life. And all this was done by my own dad. And then there was a strange helplessness and lethargy that my mom endured. And then the result was that I became a curious, mischievous, and always-ahead kid, not in school, but in everything else. And I think this triggered my father's insecurities. That's why the way he treated me was quite painful. For me, and maybe for him too. And then my mom just came in between and didn't do much special. So that's where it all started.
In young Chamath's eyes, what was there that made it seem like your parents' life was successful? Was just the absence of fights enough?
I think my father was a very smart and capable man who never got the right opportunity to show his talent. And then he made the biggest sacrifice. I can say this now after reaching the age of 50. He staked everything. Just think about it. When your life isn't going the way you wanted, you know you're capable, yet you're suffocating inside. And then you tell yourself, 'I'm completely letting go of my life, and I'll live the rest of my life for these three kids.' How can you say that? You don't know what these kids will do in the future. They could turn out to be donkeys too.
He showed that courage, and when they moved to Canada, he did it. He staked everything, and that's why I respect him a lot. Obviously, I'm grateful to him. That's the thing that I remember, that's close to my heart, and I've forgiven everything. Everything else seems like noise, just dust on the road. Because then I want to say the same thing, it doesn't matter.
Okay, pick any year. Any year. 2020.
Who was the 87th richest person in the world in 2020?
Don't know. Pick another year.
2010. Who was the 14th richest then?
Okay, a different year. 2005. Who was the most followed person at that time?
This is just to show that we don't care about anyone. It's all artificial and in our minds. And in that moment, it feels like a matter of life and death. External applause becomes something that feels like the final exam of life. But I keep reminding myself that I don't care. It's just a game. And if you know how to play, life can be very exciting.
It's interesting that the metrics you chose to ask your question were the richest and most powerful people. Is that all that matters?
No, but I think that's what we've been taught. By society.
By society. And most people have used these two things to measure a person's status, which is wrong. I would say the real thing is how much better you've become as a person from where you started to where you are now. There's no instrument to measure this. It's your internal feeling of whether you've lived this journey with full sincerity. Unfortunately, people don't understand this. Because you can't express it in a language that everyone easily understands. So society has found these easy ways to tell whether your life was successful or not, and it all comes down to these things: fame, status, and wealth.
Not being close to power?
Fame, status, and wealth. These are all results because they help society organize itself. The problem is that it forgets this fundamental thing. So that's why I keep reminding myself that if these are the external metrics of success, the truth is I don't care. And it takes a lot of guts to decide that you don't care.
So what really matters besides change?
I think for me, that's probably the biggest thing. And then after that, what I care about is my relationship with my wife, my relationship with my kids, and my relationship with my friends. In between comes all the business I do and all the ways people judge me. That everything is going well when I don't think it is, or they say it's not going well when I think everything is fine. And how they do that by going to very hollow external metrics. And my whole purpose is to break that dependency where I hear it but it doesn't affect me at all. And that's a very fearless feeling. I don't always get it, but when I do, I get a lot of peace and contentment. It's not some great happiness. It's just a peace, a contentment that I'm exactly where I should be.
Procreation and legacy have always been important. For centuries, maybe capitalism has decided that winning this game helps reach that goal. The richer you are, the more people want to carry the family forward with you. In a way, both are the same. Or they are a means to each other.
Look, for me, having kids is just a sweet whim. To be with those little rascals who are my own, whom I love. I have five kids, and if there were five more, I'd be ready for them too.
Do you think this could also be ego? Like when you look at your child, you see your own shadow.
