I don't know if some of you knew I was an angel investor in some companies. On the count of three, what's my favorite angel investment of all time? One, two, three.
Thank you. Give it up. Travis Kalanick.
Appreciate you. All right. Wow. On a big news day, Travis is here on a very big news day. You spent, wow, I guess like seven years just in the lab building. Last year, every year I ask you, hey, you want to come to the summit? You want to say no, it's like I'm going to just chill, I'm building. Next year, hey, you know, just it's always available.
You understand I'm stealth.
Yeah, stealth. I'm stealth. Nobody knows where I am, nobody knows what I'm doing. The employees are not allowed to put the name of the company on their LinkedIn.
Thousands of employees that weren't allowed to put the company name on LinkedIn. I mean, incredible.
And I'm like, 'Okay.' And their parents thought they worked for the CIA.
Yeah. And then he's like, 'And by the way, Jake Al, you can invest. You can't announce it and you have to sign an NDA, you can't mention you're an investor.' It's like, 'Okay, no problem. I'm just happy to be on the cap table.'
Is he like kind of like secretly saying what he wasn't supposed to say, right? Now he's doing that, just happened.
Well, you know, you're out now. Let's go.
You're out. It's out. You came out of stealth today. It's so funny. Okay. It's so great. You came out of stealth. Well, you talked a little bit. You came to All-In last year. Is that fair? You say you're coming out of stealth today. Is that right?
Well, look, let's just start with what that meant for our employees because again, imagine if you're at a multi-thousand person company and every single employee has stealth on their LinkedIn, including salespeople, okay? Including recruiters. Like, they were living life on hard mode.
It was kind of fun too, right? I mean, yeah, it was like kind of cool. What is this? Why is this massive density of stealth startup people in Los Angeles? What is happening over there?
Yeah. Also, technically the name of the company in different countries was very generic names of companies. I mean, everything was designed to be stealth, right? So we operate in 30 countries. In the US, the kitchens product is known as Cloud Kitchens. In Korea, it's Kitchen Valley. In the Middle East, it's Nama. In Latin America, parts of Latin America, it's Cinaas. I mean, you get the idea. You can't even remember all the names and all the code words.
Think about it. To think it through. But we have four in China, you know, it's like all over the place. Yeah. But things have gone really well and you've been a little inquisitive. So tell us about the branding today that you're announcing and then maybe some of the acquisitions and evolution of the company. You're not just renting kitchen space.
Those who know how I thought about things in the Uber day, a lot of this stuff's not surprising. I would often talk about digitizing the physical world. I think I even did it at All-In Summit. The quick version of this, I'll try to do it quickly, but it's like we know the bits world, the computer world, the one that Michael Dell essentially invented for us. CPU, storage, network. These are three core computing resources. When you go to computer science class your first day, three core computer resources. CPU manipulates the bits. Storage stores the bits. Network moves bits from point A to point B. But if you're digitizing the physical world, you're treating atoms like bits. You're building an atoms-based computer. And I'll explain what I mean. I know this is a little out there. CPU manipulates bits. What manipulates atoms? Manufacturing. Storage stores bits. What stores atoms? Real estate. Network moves bits from point A to point B. What moves atoms? That's transportation or logistics. So you have these three core computing resources in an atoms-based computer. The name of my company was very obtuse and purposely designed to be as boring as hell, was called City Storage Systems. So that's digitized real estate in an atoms-based computer. Our first computer being a food computer. What does that mean? Manufacturing, real estate, and logistics for food. And so you start to get there and the mission was infrastructure for better food. The idea was, can you get a meal that's prepared and delivered to you so efficient that it starts to approach the cost of going to the grocery store? If you can do that, you do to the kitchen what Uber did to the car. But in the Uber day, the roads were there, the cars are unused. You just had to put an app in the app store. Wasn't that easy, but kind of that easy. In this world, you can't do this on a restaurant. Restaurant doesn't have... When I left Uber, 13% of all San Francisco miles were Uber miles. You can't get there on food on restaurants. They have like 20% capacity. Uber Eats and DoorDash fill it, but the infrastructure to do high capacity, high-scale sort of industrial production is just not there. And the logistics just not there. It just doesn't work. That's why on e-commerce you go through Amazon, big ass warehouses with awesome logistics. You've got to do the same thing when food goes to e-commerce. That was a lot. Okay. So bottom line is, it's awesome. We do this food computation stuff. We're doing more computers now. And so the name of the company is called Atoms and the mission is physical automation to transform industries and move the world. And so we have our food computer I talked about. Then we're doing mining.
We're talking about atoms, guys.
Yeah. So well of course you do some data mining too but the point is physical mining. So automation of mines and the mission there is more productive mines to power Earth's industries. Right? So it's got this industrial atoms vibe to it. And then on the transport side, it's Wheelbase for robots because if you're doing specialized robots, not humanoids, specialized robots, you need to be able to move and act in the physical world. But the minute you're moving, you got to have a wheelbase. So, it's just part of the equation. And a lot of people go, look at Tesla, it's great. Look at Waymo. Awesome. They're cruising around Austin, of course. But there's so many things that move. It's not just a ride sharing thing. And so, obviously including mining equipment that's doing its thing. So you guys, that's the general sort of idea. And we acquired a company on the mining stuff, a company called Pronto or it's about to close. It's we're inches from closing is the way to put it.
What were they doing? What was their business? Pronto?
Automating mining equipment.
Uh, they're based in San Francisco. So, you and I were starting to talk about this backstage, but there's some folks I talked to in the mining industry who mentioned, you know, like the big issue with mining number one is just surveying, like finding the locations, right? Is there an advantage to be created there? Because I know there's a couple startups that are trying to be really smart about selecting locations to get the targets out of the ground.
And then the other one is like, well, can you go deep? Because pretty much anywhere on Earth, you can get whatever you want if you're willing to go deep enough, but the cost is distance squared, right? So the energy cost is like how deep are you going to the second power. So it becomes geometrically more expensive to go deeper but the deeper you go you're the more you're able to kind of not worry about getting the right location. So does automation unlock that capacity?
Automation definitely does. I mean, but you have... I mean, also it's like, man, does Boring Company have some good stuff going? Like I hope we're doing the mining thing and Boring Company makes, you know, some good tunnels for cars to do the thing. But like there's some kind of boring mechanism, automated tunneling to do some of this. But to be honest, there's, you know, they have this thing is like rare earths. I don't know why they put plural rare earths, isn't it? Rare earth. I don't know. But rare earth.
It's uncommon mineral, guys. It's not rare. It's what you have to do to the land is aggressive. And what's rare is where are the places they'll let you do it that you can also sort of get people to. When you automate, you can go to a lot of places. Well, first is all the mines that exist are way more productive. And the second is you can then sort of justify going to places you wouldn't have been able to go before because you don't have as much of a labor footprint or a safety issue or a whole bunch of other things that then...
So if it's inhospitable, if it's regulated, if it's like I don't want to live there, it's the end of the earth.
You can send robots and have people monitoring them remotely. Yeah.
And this is like a future that feels a little bit like science fiction.
Look, we're here in Austin. You got to do the shout out to Tesla and all the things because I like to sort of break down the physical AI stack includes not just like, oh yeah, computation and I've got to have physical AI models and I got to all the things you sort of think of. What about land development? That should be in that stack. What about chemistry? That needs to be in the stack. Manufacturing needs to be in the stack. When you look at the stack, you're like, damn, Tesla's got this. They are the Google of this era. Which is what I mean by that is in the 2000s, if you were doing a startup in the 2000s, the first question you would get is why isn't Google going to kill you or why isn't Google just going to do it?
They're not going to know that they killed you.
And before that, Microsoft.
And before that was Microsoft late 90s. Uber had a time 2010.
What if Uber puts that in the app?
Come on. It's like, dude, this is Uber. I'm like, but you know, I think in the physical AI space, that's a Tesla thing. But there's so many things to do. You got to shoot your shot. You got to do some stuff.
And rumors that, hey, you might not be done with self-driving, something that you were very early on. How do you think about what you're seeing in the playing field of self-driving? Because my lord, you know, Waymo's making great progress. Tesla's making great progress. Pick a winner. Like pick a winner between Tesla, Waymo, Uber...
Or like Uber. Uber seems to be building a network of stuff.
Yeah. I mean, the number of...
The number of players is crazy now, right? Like...
Yeah. Look, there's I think there's more noise. There's more bark than there is bite right now. Look, I think Waymo obviously is ahead. The existence proof is there. Their issue is manufacturing and scale and urgency and fierceness like let's come on. Let's go. Yeah. You know, Uber had an autonomy project back in the day. So, and they have a different strategy these days. I haven't been there for a while. So, but the point is you got Waymo, then you've got Tesla fundamentals, science, hard mode times 100. And the question is, do they get there in what time scale? If they... and like honestly everybody's like, could happen tomorrow, could happen in 5 years. And I think that it's like when does the ChatGPT moment happen for vision is basically the thing. Let's call it vision without other sensors. So super inspiring, but like what's the timeline on it? Yeah. Those are the... this is basically the... and then there's a lot of other little guys that don't really have the stuff I believe yet.
There's nobody standing out just yet of the others. Do you think we're at a point now like obviously now that you're getting into more of these kind of autonomous systems that move around like do we have these vision language action models tuned and ready for prime time? There's been a conversation like who's going to have the Android, the operating system for vision language action where I can use my voice tell it to do something and it knows what I'm saying and then it identifies the objects and does the thing in the physical world. Do those models exist today or is there still work? And is that like a Google OS or like where does that OS come from?
Look, I think there's... this is an area of a lot of energy, a mix of research and implementation. I think there's a lot of hope and interesting stuff. I mean the high level is we all remember what happened when you used ChatGPT 3.5 and you're like holy...
Whoa. And then it went to 4 and you're like, okay, like some stuff just changed. The world just changed and I can sort of connect some dots and getting real. Is it about to happen? Is it about to happen for physical AI? And that's what this is about. Yeah. And the fun part about it is machine learning, deep learning, this kind of thing for many years, decades was like inscrutable. I don't know what the thing is thinking. It just spits out an answer and I know it's correct. Well, now you can have a conversation with it, right? Like imagine if it's driving your car and there's different agents and one's just driving, the other's like, 'Yo, look out over there.' It's like, 'Oh, just like how we roll.' Like somebody does that, you're like, 'Honey, that's like 200 meters away. We're going to be okay.'
Jason and I don't call each other honey, but I got you. Yeah.
Like, sweetie, you know. Yeah. Okay. So anyways, so that was odd, wasn't it? Okay. Okay. Okay. I didn't mean it that way. I didn't mean it.
Yeah. You know, I meant it. Okay.
Language is a beautiful compression mechanism that humans use 100 watts of energy. And you put that in the scheme of things of like AI training, AI energy, the power plants that are built to do the thing that isn't even at human strength yet. Okay. The Waymo machine takes a hundred times more energy to drive a Waymo than a human does to drive a Waymo. So, so language... there are still things that humans are great at and that unbeat... like the goat. We're still the goat at certain things. Language is this epic compression. And we need to find ways to compress because like when you think about how we first started looking at the physical world is we saw everything. And you know what guys and this is sort of obvious like it doesn't matter what the cloud is doing if I'm driving. But like the car doesn't know that. It's pulling in every freaking data point and processing everything. And it's... you know look they've been about sort of carving out the things that don't matter and things like this. There's ultra awesome versions of this and you can imagine how you can use language or things that look like language to communicate either amongst agents or sort of safety systems with a driving system to sort of get very efficient answers and to identify safety issues very efficiently.
People don't know that you've moved to Texas as of... most people don't know but it's out there.
Yeah. You moved here in December, so now you're a resident of Austin.
Yeah, I was... I thank you. It's very exciting for me. We've been getting to play some backgammon.
Backgammon, cards. It's cards. We're having a good time. So, I've had a place on Lake Austin since 2021. And I go there. I'm an avid water skier. Like...
You're impressive at water skiing, I have to say. Like...
So I've had a place in Austin for 5 years. Freaking love it. It's my weekend. I would go 15 weekends a year.
What do you think's going to happen in California?
It's pretty messed up. Look, I grew up in Cali. Like I grew up in Los Angeles. My parents were born and bred in Los Angeles, which basically makes them the founders of LA. Okay. But so I have a lot of heart like my whole family, everything, you know? It's pretty... it's pretty... I don't want...
A lot of us feel that way. I don't want to get the violin out, but it just... but it's heartbreaking.
The plot totally... It's just a place you grew up. It's your home, you know, when you have to leave. But it's getting weird out there and it feels like it's getting weirder and at some point that's... it's just too weird.
It's too weird. Do you think everyone's going to leave?
I mean, it started with Elon and it was like we don't want Elon here and then he's like message received, right? And then it kind of worked its way down the tech industry and in the kind of, you know, world of people building businesses and whatnot. And now it's kind of gotten so broad in terms of the...
Joe Rogan, comedy, music, New Yorkers, restaurateurs. I mean, this place is...
I'm not even talking about this. I'm just talking about everyone leaving LA or sorry leaving California is almost like working down this path of...
Look, my... the rest of my team's like we're... when are we moving? You know, they're like...
And how are you dealing with that? So that was the question was like...
Got to buy homes on the lake. There are literally dozens of startup CEOs of call it successful or growing companies that I talked to who were like, dude I want to leave but I got employees here. I got an office here. I got a facility here. I build stuff here. How am I going to leave?
Yeah, I totally get it. It's a real thing. So, look, I think like most things, sort of when it's time and it feels painful to do something, sometimes it's actually not as bad as you think and you just got to make the move and lead and do it. And so, that's kind of the process, the almost like a mourning process I went through and that's just what it is.
And you're setting up a team here.
Yeah, of course. And I got that office right on the lake.
Uh, it's... we are negotiating. No, it's all good. No, no, it's all good. We're negotiating right now. But I'm going to jet ski to work.
No, literally we... is it true story. Last year we're like driving up the thing and I was like, 'Wow, I wonder who owns that.' He's like, 'I will.' And I was like, 'Did you look at...' It's like I looked at that and I was like, 'That's a... that would be a nice one.' But the truth is, you know, and I had a couple people move here a couple years ago and they all had the same reaction. Oh my god, I'm living in a place that's twice as big for half as much. The people here are dope. The food is dope. Everybody here has got this sense that we're building the future. And it's just fun and world positive. And you know, for me, I got to live New York, LA, San Francisco. I did three of the great cities in this country. This one feels the most like home to me, which is a very strange feeling to me, but it feels like everybody here wants to build the future and it's very diverse, you know, like all these different industries and people pursuing stuff. I think this is the future.
Yeah. Here's the thing. Like you go to San Francisco and I still have a little nostalgia when I go to San Francisco just having built Uber there and the whole thing. I still get the, you know, the butterflies just I, you know, but it does have something magical. You just can't take it away. And then you look at all of these bike lanes and these bus lanes that never have a bus or a bike in them and cost $400 million to build one mile and it's literally it's sort of like this subconscious desire to choke the city off. Now remember, I look at things through roads. That's how I think. So I'm just like obviously the city is totally busted.
No, they literally took Market Street and they're like, 'What would be the optimal way to [__] this up and virtue signal at the same time?' And they're like, 'Yeah, buses.' And it's like, 'Nobody's on the bus. Nobody takes the bus.' It's a beautiful small town, San Francisco. That whole street is empty and painted red.
So, okay. So, we all [__] and complain non-stop on our chat. When are you leaving? I'm number one. I get it. But, when are you leaving?
On the chat, you're the best, by the way. I'm like, okay. So, let me just... by the way, there's couple glasses of wine in public-facing Friedberg and he's like, you know, I think there's a better way to do. And then there's like Darth Friedberg in group chat. He's like, these people, these morons are destroying society. He is like Darth Friedberg in group chat. Am I lying? Am I lying? Is he the most...
Correct. Especially after a couple glasses of wine.
Yeah. When I start drinking and he takes pictures, he's like, 'Fourth beverage.' And we're like, 'Oh, it's worth staying up on the group chat.' Yeah. And then I'm like, I'll go and attack this congressman on Twitter, which I realized...
And then you go delete the tweet.
Yeah. I delete the tweets. Okay. You know there's a group of people trying to raise $500 million to create like a tech/business coalition to go to Sacramento, which arguably is something that everyone's left and avoided doing forever because no one wants to spend time in freaking Sacramento fighting politicians, but it's almost like we're all falling off a cliff. It's time to do something. Do you think there's a realistic path back? Do you think the people can actually get their [__] together that even if 500 million came in, there's a way to kind of turn around the state, fix some of the policies? You think it's too late?
I don't think that. But look, I would go... look, anybody who's doing anything to fix things, I'm like, hell yeah, let's do something. The issue is we all grew up in the tech world, which was like a libertarian place where you stay out of politics and that kind of vibe. It was just everybody was like that. Leave me alone. When I want to make stuff. Yeah. I just... I don't do that. And that's obviously not a thing anymore in California. I think the ballot initiatives are very powerful and there's very clean ways to get something on the ballot, love that. I think your DAs who have decided we do not enforce crime at all anymore. That's like a sweet spot. Like I believe that I sort of have this aphorism. Truth and justice are the immune system for society. When the immune system is suppressed, all the social ills flare up. So look for the places where truth and justice are being deteriorated, are being degraded, and say, how do we get at that? Because if you get at that, everything else downstream will be better. So that's kind of how I look at things and how I also determine whether the world's getting better or worse. When I say weird, I'm talking about truth and justice. That's what I mean when I say, 'Oh man, it's getting weird. It's getting weirder,' which means it's weird. I'm just talking about truth and justice.
Well, I mean, and you look at the homeless industrial complex, you look at Chesa Boudin, which the All-In pod sacks, myself, and the pod, like we literally led the recall of him. And then you had the same thing going on in LA where they were just like if somebody...
Yeah, Gascon. I mean, we basically lost the script. You're running the city for the criminals. It literally is like a Batman movie. It's like Bane.
I mean, you want to arrest the criminals. Look, I was born in the darkness. I mean, these guys are lunatics.
Yeah. Look, I know police officers in Los Angeles who are no longer police officers, and these are lifelong guys who protect and serve. That's in their blood, their DNA. They want to protect people. They want the bad guys to be dealt with. And they almost have PTSD from what it is like to want to serve and see bad things happening and not being allowed to stop it.
Yeah. Nobody's got their back and they're not allowed to do their job. It's crazy. And it's getting weird.
Okay. Hey, I want to just go back to AI.
No, no, no. I think it's good.
I was trying to induce... I'm trying to induce Darth Friedberg.
Well, I brought it up. I mean, someone bring me a tequila. I'll get going.
Yeah, let's do it. Can we get a couple tequilas?
It was funny. I went on this podcast yesterday and the guy was like the first hour was middle of the road. I was talking about tech and science and then like politics came up. He's like, so socialism and he said like you lost it and then you were like... he's like the energy went 10x and...
Yeah. So, it'll come out in a couple weeks, but I was like, it got me going. Okay. I want to talk about physical AI one more time.
So, one of... now that you're doing this, I saw a presentation the other day. Someone showed like a video of a squirrel jumping from one tree to another tree. And they're like a tenth of a watt or something like... the biology is tuned and it's so perfect in terms of its efficiency of energy utilization to do physical things. And we're taking these like big things of metal and motors and like actuators and if you add up or you compound all of the inefficiencies in the system, it's like 1,200 watts to get the robot to walk 4 foot. Like break apart not just the software but the hardware layer and where are we at in evolving things like actuators and the materials and everything else that's going to make physical AI work and scale.
Oh, look, a lot of the questions you're asking are going down humanoid lane, which is like this thing and everybody talks about how do you do the hand? It's almost like Terminator 2 type obsession with the hand, which is fair. Like, it's a very critical part of it. I mean, look at the... I like to look at the Achilles, the quote unquote Achilles tendon of any of these machines and you're like, that's where the action is. There's a couple other places. Look, I'm in the non-humanoid space. I mean, but mechanical engineers have been dealing with actuators and, you know, all the sort of electromechanical sort of interactions that make machines do certain things, but like I'm in the food machine space, so I can tell you how to open a paper bag and put a bowl in a paper bag without tearing the paper bag. But I am less into the... I forget the name... proprioception... they're the senses to understand awareness and touch. I'm not in that game. So when you're mining you're not like... you're not threading... you're not playing tennis. Certain things may be equivalent to tennis. So, look, the bottom line is we're seeing obviously all you have to do is go online and look at where the humanoids are going over time and how much better they're getting. It's wild and it's happening so freaking fast. But any humanoid demo starts with dancing and martial arts.
And we're sort of down specialized robot lane, which is gainfully employed robots.
Yeah. So, I know I didn't totally answer the question, the technology piece, but I just like do you agree that there's probably like a big opportunity for venture money and like research to go into material science extra?
Sure. Because if the physical AI stack manipulation and all of the related things around it is massive. And so if you get the software working, it's almost like the hardware has to catch up.
Well, actually it's good that you bring this up. You know, one of the things you pioneered at Uber was capital as a weapon and you were very thoughtful about hey if we can take this capital off the table then that's going to... let's call it what it is. It's going to be an advantage versus the competitors and these other competitors couldn't get that capital. That's now I think people have seen that playbook and they're like hm Sam Altman's like that was smart let me try and it's at a different scale now that you've come out of stealth, now that you've got... and people are starting to understand just starting today how big your vision is. Capital as a weapon, this is I guess in your plan, yeah?
Well I mean here's the thing right so capital as a strategic weapon for its own sake is not a thing but when it is actually a strategic weapon then it is a thing. And what I mean by that is like in the Uber world early days if you didn't have capital didn't matter how good your app was because Masa is going to put a billion dollars into your competitor and you're going to lose 20% market share tomorrow. So a critical competency in fact your world-class competencies one of them has to be raising capital and you need to do it better than everybody else and if you don't you are going to lose.
Let me ask one follow up to that. Sorry you go ahead. But the Middle East...
I've heard theories the last couple days that big capital seekers are kind of right now because of what's going on in the Middle East with the Iran war. Dubai, Qatar, Saudis are kind of going to close up the capital flowing to the US right now. And is that real? I mean, do you think that's a real threat?
So look, our Middle East business was supposed to go public in January and the Saudi market went down 20% over like a two-month period and that was like a massive damper on the situation. Now part of that was because the oil prices had gone down so dramatically and if you went into KSA, you went to the kingdom, everybody's like, we need oil prices to go up. That's the other side of the equation. So I don't know what... I'm not in the market raising money right at this moment and this is a two-week-old thing that I... look I see the news just like everybody else and I'm not out there calling while a war is going on and saying hey guys you got some money. So I don't know exactly what's going to happen. But if you are an optimist and you're like, 'Okay, this is not going on forever.' Just like the tariffs, it was the end of the world and then it wasn't very quickly. If you're an optimist about this situation and it won't be the end of the world, maybe even a better world, then we get to a better place. And I think progress, abundance, the golden age happens. And a lot of it is about all the things that are happening in AI and physical AI and just the productivity gains that are coming in very massive ways. Yeah.
Yeah. And I mean it was shock and awe and then hey now we've got a steady state and let's hope that's what happens in Iran is that we can depose these evil dictators, replace it with something a little more stable. And related to this before we wrap, they're going to China. There's big trade deal being negotiated. What do you hope comes out of this Chinese thing? And what did you learn in China? What would you learn? And what do you think would be great for America? Like what would you like to see and be like, man, that's going to set us all up. No more.
Look, here's the thing. If you go to China right now and you go and just take a tour of the manufacturing that's going on there, just the manufacturing base, the cities, especially if you've gone to China for a couple decades in a row, you're like, damn. Yeah. So, let's just do two things. You go to Shenzhen, which before felt like Kansas City, but 50 years ago and really humid, which I guess Kansas City sometimes, but you go there now and it's like one-upping Singapore, right? So that's the city view. You're just experiencing a very awesome... You're like, this is advanced and you just get the vibe and it's everywhere. And then you go and you start seeing the manufacturing base and you see what like Xiaomi is doing or any of the other... there's so many scrappy guys, badass guys everywhere and you're like...
So does anybody remember the 2008 Olympics in Beijing? Anybody? Does anybody... This is a little bit you're down a rabbit hole. Does anybody remember the opening ceremony? And you're like these mofos are taking over. At least that's what they want to do. That [__]'s happening. So, I don't have any issue or this is not negativity for me. I'm like, these guys are killing it. The best idea is winning. They're fiercely... they're fiercely going after truth and progress and they're making [__] happen. Let's step up our game. Okay. But we can also have a friendly game. Like, we don't have to be like the Detroit Pistons in the '90s, you know?
Yes. We can... there's a way...
Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's a way to do this, right? And there's a way to do it like adults. I hope that's where we would end up. I have an employee who because we for a long time were the largest kitchen builders in China. I have an employee in China has an American wife. Okay. They both live in China. They're both from China originally. Okay. But want him to... it would be great for him to work here on some things I'm doing. It's very hard to make that happen right now. Now, that's selfish like I... maybe selfish like I'm like there's a person I've been working with for over a decade. I'd love to continue here. Maybe there's other bigger picture items that I'm not dealing with. I'm not the geopolitical guy, but I'd love for there to be sort of good relations and good... like if you have a significant other who is an American citizen like do we have to make that hard as an example?
