Welcome to Conversations Different, a podcast from the Santa Fe New Mexican about interesting people, places, and issues of Northern New Mexico. This is host Inz Russell Gomez, and today we are excited to have a trailblazer in the world of business and politics speaking with us, Meg Whitman. She has been ambassador to Kenya, CEO of companies such as eBay and Hewlett Packard, and even a candidate for governor of California. And now she is a resident of New Mexico. Welcome.
Well, thank you. Glad to be here with you.
Yeah, this is really exciting because as I said as we were talking ahead of time, I was working as a young person in my 20s and 30s and then growing up watching women achieve in the business world was always thrilling because we hadn't gotten to run big companies like that.
Yeah, I think my generation were pioneers, right? My class at Harvard Business School was probably 10% women and now it's 50/50. So, a lot of progress, but a number of us were like you, pioneers, doing things that women hadn't done a lot of before.
Yeah. And I'm always happy that eBay gave you the opportunity to take back a bid because I wasn't paying attention once when my son bid a million dollars for a Pokemon card while we were home together. And I thought, 'Oh no, what do I do? I could have died.'
Yeah. You were not the only one who made that mistake.
Yeah, you have to watch him. I stayed home with him for a while and kind of interrupted my career and it was a really interesting experience and I tell everybody I was the worst stay-at-home mom in the world, but it gave you time that you couldn't get back. So, I guess it was a good idea, you know.
Yeah. So, what brought you to New Mexico?
Yeah. Well, we were in Kenya. My husband and I were in Kenya. I was the US ambassador to Kenya and we knew our time was going to be up with the change of administration because I was a political appointee and Griff, my husband, is a neurosurgeon and he had been head of neurosurgery at UC Davis in Sacramento, California. And he said, 'You know, I'd like to go back to work full-time.' He was a neurosurgeon in Kenya, but he wasn't running a program and he said, 'I'd like to go back to work full-time.' And as luck would have it, there was a job opening at UNM. He applied and he got the job. And so we decided, let's go on another adventure. And we decided to move to New Mexico and he started a year ago January 6th at UNM as head of neurosurgery.
Wow. That's kind of exciting the way you can put your career and then his career and, like you said, have adventures.
Yep. And we've been doing that. We've been married 45 years, 46 years this June. And we've done this back and forth with our careers. And we like to say no sooner does someone get traction on their career than the other one has a different idea. But it's worked out. It's worked out really well for 46 years.
That's the meaning of partnership.
Yep. Had you been to New Mexico much before or was it all a brand new thing when you got here?
It was reasonably brand new. We had been to Santa Fe a couple of times on business conventions. My husband had actually a neurosurgery meeting in Santa Fe. I'd been to Santa Fe for a business thing and I'd been through Albuquerque, but we hadn't been there much.
Okay. So, what was your impression and what has been your impression?
Yeah. Well, first of all, it is a tremendously beautiful state. I don't think New Mexico talks about that as much as it should. This is remarkable. Every sunset is, but it is just beautiful. And you know, so many different landscapes from white sands to skiing to hiking to all kinds of different environments. And then I think as many people have said for a long time, New Mexico has tremendous potential. You know, three national labs, the highest number per capita PhDs per capita of any state in the country. Tremendous energy resources, tremendously entrepreneurial people with a rich heritage, deeply anchored in a very interesting history and culture and I think it's got tremendous potential and a huge land mass. I think you're the fourth or fifth largest state in the country with now a sovereign wealth fund second only I believe to Alaska, 66 billion dollars.
Yeah, it's crazy. It's one of those, I mean New Mexico has always been a land of contrast but one that gets me is that we're poor in terms of individual per capita median income and then we're rich in terms of the state wealth. So hopefully they're doing a better job of spending that and investing so that we can be rich all around.
Yes. Yes. And I think being smart about how to invest that sovereign wealth fund is going to be a big job of the legislature and the folks that run the sovereign wealth fund.
Yeah. And you had written, the reason I got your contact information is my day job is I'm the opinion editor for the paper and you wrote in my view that we ran about 1.5 billion potential investment in a technology moonshot and I love what you said, this is a place on the cusp of something remarkable. What do you mean when you say that?
Well, there's a whole new generation of technologies that are going to change everything. And you know, whether it's quantum or fusion or defense tech, any number of industries, hypersonics, you name it. And it just so happens that New Mexico could be and is to some degree a leader in many of these technologies. Thank you to the three national labs plus UNM and others. And so I wrote the piece really to say take advantage of this moment. You know, I was wanting to really help George Munoz and he's put this bill forward and I thought, you know, this is a really good idea. Let's invest in these technologies. Let's create jobs and let's have this be what New Mexico stands for. And I think one of the challenges New Mexico has is there's not really a narrative on the state. You know, when you're outside the state, you don't really know that there are all these things to be taken advantage of in New Mexico. You certainly don't know that New Mexico is a leader in these cutting edge technologies. So that's why I wrote the piece.
Yeah, I think you made a very strong argument and I was thinking about your history. You know, you were in California as the tech boom really blew up and here you are again in a place where something similar. Do you think it could be similar?
I think it could be. You know, there's been many tech booms. If you think about it, go all the way back to the mainframe, right? Then to the PC which was a remarkable boom to the smartphone which is frankly a technology to the internet to cloud to AI. This is another big, I think enormous tech change and each one is bigger in some ways than the other and changes lives more fundamentally. And so I think it's a really interesting time for New Mexico. And yeah, I've seen a few of these in my career. Not all the way back to the mainframe, but I was in the business certainly at the PC and the internet.
Yeah. And you really believed in Hewlett Packard and the PC. So that was a really kind of brave decision.
It was. Yeah. When I joined Hewlett Packard, the company was in trouble. You know, they had seven different lines of business, virtually all of which were on the wrong side of history. So we were doing printers when people weren't really printing anymore. We had PCs when people were moving to the smartphone. We were doing servers when customers were moving to the cloud. So we had to reposition the company which we did quite successfully. And I was a believer. I mean it's an iconic American technology company that needed a turnaround and I was privileged to be asked and assembled the team that I think did a really nice job.
Yeah. There's two ways of managing. Sometimes you're the founder and you build it up and then sometimes you come in and you help save it. And you know, people in politics are always saying New Mexico is going in the wrong direction. We need to be saved. Are you interested at all in getting back into politics?
Not certainly not as an elected candidate. I ran for governor once. I ran for public office once. It was the hardest thing I ever done. And so I will support candidates I believe in. I will argue for policies that I believe in, you know, like the senator's bill. But not as an elected candidate. I think those days are over.
Yeah. Well, considering the age of the people who've been running for president lately, you've got like a good 20 years to go.
Yeah. Because in the political realm, you were a Republican, but not a Republican like we see today. And you helped advise Mitt Romney, John McCain. Then you ended up endorsing Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. And what was that decision like? And how has it played out as you see what the president has become and what he's done?
Yeah. Well, you're right. I was a Republican, more of a middle-of-the-road Republican today. And had been a Republican my entire life. And then when Hillary Clinton was running against Donald Trump, I said, you know what, I think I believe in Hillary's policies more than Donald Trump's and I also thought she was a more experienced leader in government to be the president of the United States. So I endorsed her, which was quite a tectonic plate shift. You know, when you run as a candidate in party A and you endorse someone in party B, that is sort of people take notice of that. And so I tried very much to help her get elected. I was very sorry when she didn't win. And then when it came around again for Joe Biden's term, I jumped on Joe Biden's campaign, tried to help him as much as I could. And I'm very glad that I did. I believe in the Democratic policies for the most part. Some things are a little bit different than I would do, but nothing is perfect. And felt like those two were more aligned with me than the current president.
That's right. You got to vote your values. And on that note, we'll be back in a moment with more Conversations Different.
Welcome back to Conversations Different. We are speaking to Meg Whitman, a one-year resident of New Mexico who thinks we're on the brink of a lot of exciting changes. That's actually something as the editorial page, my day job, I think about is there's been so many investments in early childhood education and college and then now this 1.5 billion that could go to help technology get developed. It seems like a lot of things could be coming together in the right place at the right time.
Yeah, I think you're right. You know, many people have said to me, listen, we've been thinking that New Mexico is on the cusp of something quite different and accelerated for many, many years. So I don't have the history of all of that, but I just feel like the stars are aligned right now and there's a whole new breed of new technologies that New Mexico has a real leadership position in. And if the state can capitalize on that, I think it can mean tremendous employment, economic growth, inclusive growth, jobs of all kinds. Everyone thinks that technology is only for PhDs. It's not. Think about building data centers. Think about building a lot of these things. These are trades. These are construction jobs. These are jobs that everyone has a shot at. And so I think it's an important time for New Mexico. And I'm excited about it. I'm excited for the state.
Yeah. My cousin helped build a clean room at Intel, god, 20 some odd years ago. And that led to him getting hired and he is amazingly after a zillion layoffs and all the things they've gone through, he's still there. And I always say he's the most successful member of our family because that's just a great company to work for.
It is. It is. And there's so many new companies being founded. You look at AI in San Francisco in the last 18 to 24 months there's been 462 AI companies founded just in the city of San Francisco. So in all these new technologies that the senator's bill talked about there's going to be lots and lots of new companies. Not all of them will be successful but there's going to be lots of opportunities I think.
Right. That's one of the times in life that you're only limited by your imagination or lack thereof and the way you're willing to take risks. So it really opens up a lot of opportunity as you say.
Yeah. And notwithstanding, I do think you mentioned early childhood education. I think that's an important thing. I think K through 12 education is very important for New Mexico because that prepares the students to either go into a career or go on to higher education. So, not to minimize the importance of education more broadly, I think it's absolutely critical for New Mexico.
Yes. No. And they've been making investments in the traditional public schools, expanding charter schools, and the test results never seem to change, but in terms of if you meet a young person who's in high school, I just came back from a meeting at the roundhouse with young people, they're just smarter and more competent in so many ways. So, I wish that we were measuring that kind of capability that doesn't seem to be getting through the tests.
Well, they're certainly more worldly, aren't they, than when we grew up. Yeah, they have a much better sense of the possibilities and what's going on in the world. But still, we have to focus on the basics of third grade reading, third grade math, eighth grade reading, eighth grade math. I still think you can't do math problems unless you can read really well. So,
That's huge. I think New Mexico, which I think is already underway, taking a leaf out of Mississippi's book that has gone from really the bottom of the country to now I think 35th and really in some inner city school systems it's not just the easy kids it's the more challenged children. So I think New Mexico can take a leaf out of that book too.
Right. Right. Structured reading, it's all coming and they're finally teaching the teachers how to teach reading and now there's a bill this year to teach them how to teach math better.
Yes. Yes. So I think that's going to make investing in teachers is so important because all the research says that a great teacher in the classroom, the infrastructure might not be up to par, a lot of things might not be right but if you've got a great teacher the kids can figure it out.
Yes. No, it makes a huge huge difference and it's one of the things that the expansion of opportunities for women kind of hurt education because women who had to only be teachers or nurses then went to do other things and I think perhaps over the years some of the people we had the best and brightest at one time going into teaching.
Yes. Yes. It is. And isn't that ironic that when more opportunities opened up for women that actually hurt the caliber of people going into our most important K through 12 education system. So I think you've made a very good point. Not very many people realize that actually. So I think you've gotten a really good point there and ultimately we have to figure out how to really help these teachers be as excellent as they can possibly be.
Right. No, they've increased pay a lot, but there's still a lot of paperwork and so many, I mean, I can't imagine what it's like being a teacher in a place like Texas where you have to be careful if a kid comes to you and says, 'Oh my gosh, I think I'm gay.' And then you, all the history. I mean, New Mexico doesn't interfere with its curriculum in that way. So, that's a really nice place to teach, I think.
Yes. I think that's right. Yeah.
So, going back to the political part of your life, are you still a Republican? Have you...
I've actually am a registered Democrat now.
Oh, wow. I went from a Republican to an independent to a registered Democrat.
All right. So, that makes sense. And now in New Mexico, there's open primaries. So, if you didn't want to have a party, you can still vote in a political primary, which I think...
Yeah, I think that's going to be an interesting change. How do you think that plays out?
