Ep430: Tal Jacobson | GM, CodeFuel

Oh, great! Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Yeah, yeah, with the Israeli offices.

So, I think it all happened by mistake, like all good things. I started by pursuing what I love to do, which is drawing and doing animations. I started like 25, 26 years ago, learned animation, went to the US, worked a bit in animation. Then I had to come to Israel, ran out of money, I couldn't get back to the United States. Found a company who would hire me that I knew their software, which was Macromedia, the company who invented Flash and was bought by Adobe. I thought I was gonna work there for three months, save some money, go back. One thing led to another, been there for six years. The company went to 4,000 employees. I became a VP Marketing of this region. I have no idea how that happened, but it was quite a journey. At the end of it, it was bought by Adobe. So I really got into this high-tech business executive kind of thing by mistake.

So I think the common thing is how do you get to a place and solve the issues that they have. So for example, in Macromedia, bear in mind 25 years ago—well, I'm so old—so in Macromedia, we wanted to sell, you know, software, but back then we sold boxes of software with CDs and books, right? Wasn't what we have today. And I came up with the idea of doing performance marketing, where performance marketing wasn't that common, and we did that by fax. So we got all the numbers from all the studios who would buy this software, and overnight we've sent a brochure to all those companies. And in the morning, our sales team were bombed with phones, and we've sold so many software by fax, which was the first performance marketing. And throughout the years, I went and taught MBA students marketing, and I said, you know, it doesn't matter if you're doing that online or you're doing billboards, as long as you can define your target audience and know how to get them, then everything's the same. Nothing changed. You just need to find the right channel.

So I think, you know, looking back, the thing that drew me to animation was creativity, and marketing and problem solving has the same thing, right? You know, you need to figure something out, and you need to be very creative: how do I get to that place through a way that nobody else thought? Normally, when you want to generate a higher ROI, you need to figure out something that nobody else thought about. So creativity, problem solving, you know, that's really all about what drives me.

So, you know, CodeFuel is the search division of Perion Network, which is a publicly traded company in the NASDAQ. And Perion, the parent company of CodeFuel, had a new CEO come on board, Dan Gotstand. And when he spoke with me about the company and his vision and what we can do about it, and then I looked at, you know, the stock price and what CodeFuel does, I said, you know what, there's a real opportunity here to change everything. And when you look at the stock in the past two and a half years that I'm here, at least, we really changed how the company works. You know, we became the biggest partner of Microsoft. Stock went up really, you know, from like we were worth 70 million dollars, now we're 550 in two years. Wow. You know, touch wood. But it's all about, you know, I always say, you know, Guy Kawasaki said that once, and it really, I really think that's the way. I always say that I have the golden touch, and when I say that, everybody looks kind of weird. And I said, it's not that everything I touch turns into gold, I just need to find gold and touch it. So I look for companies that are like a diamond in the rough, like companies that I know they have good potential but they didn't get to where they need to get. And that's where my skill, problem solving, gets in. I had the same kind of thing with SimilarWeb.

So SimilarWeb, you know, they offered me the job in 2008, which was early days for SimilarWeb. And I think, you know, Or is amazing, but back in 2008, the product was totally different. I didn't believe in the product. A few years ahead, 2012, Or gave me a call, said, you know what, we're doing a pivot, something totally different. You know, just come look at what we do, let me know if you want to be part of that. I came to the office, I looked at the data, and I told Or, you know what, this is awesome. I want to use that data. I don't care if it'll work here or not. I want that data. Yeah. So I'm going to join no matter what. So, you know, finding things that you really believe in, that you know there's a huge potential, that with your skill you can turn into gold. That's the golden touch: find things that your touch can turn into gold, because the gold is there, you just need to take it.

I think, you know, the major lesson here that I learned throughout the years is that ideas come and go. The ideas don't have any potential; it's only people. So I try to find people that I believe in. So Perion's CEO, Dan, is an amazing person to work with. That was the main thing. Working with Or at SimilarWeb, you know, you can see the quality, you can see that no matter what, he would make it right. And at the end of the day, when you invest in people, you don't invest in ideas, you invest in people, because ideas constantly shift. And you want to find people who are going to be your co-founders to the journey when things go sideways. And things always go sideways. You want to find your partners, right? And that's the goal, that's the key.

How far along? Listen, I'm a performance kind of guy. I'm all about execution. So, you know, I have a five-year strategy, but if it doesn't make money two months from now, it's not worth it.

So, you know, I'll take it back—not only money, but you need to think big, like really big. Where am I going to be, where the company is going to be in three years from now? And then you need to break it into the smallest pieces that you can, so you can constantly validate that you're on the right path to the bigger dream. So if in two or three months you're not on the right path, you either change the path or you need to re-evaluate your dream or your goal or your strategy. But you can't...

Right. So, you know, for me, money is like points in a game. You need to earn those points, otherwise you might not even be playing. Even though you're working very hard, but you're not playing the right game.

So again, I think problem solving in huge scales. That's what I like to do. Give me a huge problem that I can see the progress. This is why I need it to be very tangible, you need to be very measurable. Otherwise, I don't understand if I made any progress or not. So give me a huge problem and let me measure it. That's really what drives me.

You know what, I think what I do now is what I've always done. So somebody asked me when was my first job, like a month ago, and I remembered a funny story that I totally forgot to put up until that point. When I was seven, that was my first job. I went to the grocery store and I told the manager there, I'm gonna do all the errands and you're gonna pay me. I remember what it was then, but maybe like five or ten Israeli shekels. And I've done that for a day or two. And after a day or two, I figured out I can ask my friend to do all the errands and I can give him half of the money.

Seven. This is like Mark Zuckerberg stuff. So at the age of seven, I've already done what I'm doing today: figuring out how do I do this better, how do I scale. And, you know, both my parents are like that. So I guess, you know, doing animation is great, and I have this creative side, but solving issues, solving problems, figuring out how do I make this better, how do I make this scalable, is a way of thinking, I guess. I was born like that.

So for me, the key here, and I saw that over and over at companies, always hire people that you can mentor them, but they need to do their job better than you. And treat them as co-founders. Don't treat them as employees. Make them partners to the journey. And with all the people that work with me, every meeting starts by me asking, okay, what do you need from me? Because I'm basically working for you guys. If you succeed, I succeed. So what do you need from me to succeed? And that makes a whole difference. If you guys are partners to the road and you help them become better, then it's a whole different story in terms of motivation, in terms of how they grow. And if you really care about your employees, you want them to grow, you want them to be better for themselves. I think that makes a change.

Yeah.

Science.

No, I just loved science and biology.

So I have so many people that throughout my journey helped me. I think, you know, my first big job at American Media, I once screwed up so badly. I accidentally sent a newsletter where all the customers could actually see all the emails. Really? And I went to my boss then and said, you know what, I resign because I did such a bad thing. And he said, why are you resigning? You know, only if you try, you make mistakes. Wow. So the fact that you made a mistake means you did something good. And I really appreciate that 20-something years after that. It made an amazing lesson.

Three words: creative, self-driven, and a father.

Thank you. And thank you for all the kind words. Thank you.