Can Supercom Tech Fix a Broken Justice System? ($SPCB IMPACT Stock)

Yeah, we had exciting times in the last year or two. Things are very busy here, and thanks for having me again, Tim. It's always a pleasure to get on this channel and talk with you.

Right, right, right. So I've been in the company since actually I was 28, right after finishing business school in New York at Columbia University. At the time, I was just helping kind of stabilize the company because it was on the pink sheets. We had to bring hundreds of investors to relist on the NASDAQ Capital Market. We did that in September 2013. Afterwards, we raised money to acquire a competitor's e-division. Since then, I grew the operations in the US to over $10 million in annual revenues and stabilized our product line of tracking offenders in the US. Three years ago, I moved to Israel to help with the global operations because at the time the company was experiencing five years of decline in revenues, significant debt and cash burn. We were trying to make some changes that worked very well in the US. We're trying to apply them to the global market for the company, including Europe, Africa, and South America. So I moved to Israel at the time, and since then, it's been a very exciting kind of shift in the company to where we are today.

Good. So SuperCom, we're an electronic and digital security company that serves governments around the world. In our past, we were doing biometric ID cards and passports. Over the past, let's say, five to seven years, we've shifted strongly towards offender monitoring and public safety. Our main focus is creating these ankle bracelets, new and improved, state-of-the-art, new generation ankle bracelets with long battery life. You don't have to connect your leg to the wall anymore to help with public safety. We help people on house arrest. We help take people out of prisons to programs that could reliably track them. What we've innovated and focused on in recent years, which is really creating a paradigm shift with large new programs around the world, is domestic violence solutions. We have a solution where we put a bracelet on the offender. So if someone hits his wife or his children, he gets a bracelet on his leg almost immediately once the police arrive and see this. He can't come close to them. Their phone will alert if he comes anywhere close. So we help with domestic violence immediately until everything goes through trial, until the person's convicted. We have a solution to keep him away and to stop the violence in the meantime. That's been really changing the paradigm, really helping thousands of people, if not tens of thousands of people, every year. We are expanding that into more and more areas around the world and making a bigger impact and bigger change.

Yeah, it could be two miles, it could be 500 yards. It depends what's defined by the specific government running the program. But the idea is that yes, the victim, usually the female, they feel comfortable that they can complain. There's going to be some sort of change immediately. So in Romania, which is the project we won two years ago, 15,000 offenders simultaneously, 15,000 bracelets. It's one of the largest projects in the world in electronic monitoring and certainly the largest in domestic violence. We won that. It was a new program for them over there. When police officers come because of a complaint and they see damage on the face, you know, obvious domestic violence signs, they put a bracelet on the person immediately. Until there's trial, until it goes to the court, that offender cannot come close to the victim. If he comes close, her phone alerts her and she can stay away. She sees him coming close. She actually sees a little map of him approaching. And also, the police get a notification. So the person's already in trouble, already at risk. He doesn't want to create more trouble for himself by coming close to the victim. And it works. It works really well. We're the first company to do it in that way because until now, other companies maybe had a solution where you need to charge your leg every week or every day and it's a clunky bracelet. It's hard to ask someone to wear a clunky bracelet that they have to charge every single day before they're even convicted yet. You know, the person's like, why do I need to do all this? So when it's a bracelet on your leg, it's small, lightweight, you don't have to charge it, it's not going to bother you, it's not going to interrupt your life. You put it on meanwhile and just make sure that you're far away. That's all. And they keep it that way.

We came to make that change. We not only help him come out of prison in a step-by-step fashion. First off, he's in house arrest and then he's on GPS monitoring, which saves tons of money. You're talking about taxpayer funds. There's over $80 billion in the US spent every year just monitoring these prisons. And even though the amount of people in prisons and operating them, there's still a high recidivism rate of 75%. So anyone that comes out of prison within five years comes right back in. So something in the prison program didn't work if they're coming right back and just inflating the prisons. There's no room, and people aren't doing anything except for learning from other criminals. They could be at home, working, studying, raising their kids, helping their parents, helping other people, and they're not doing any of that. So it's a much more effective solution cost-wise and effective-wise, and in terms of actually caring about what's happening to your community, you can put people on alternatives to incarceration, which is what we're doing here with the bracelets and house programs.

Right, yeah, it's especially now everything is in forged forever somewhere on some website, some profile, some Google search. But here, you know, we see offenders when they come out, ex-cons, they look for a job, no one wants to give them a job. We developed in our company, you know, vocational training programs. We help them with welding, truck driving, other types of work that helps them come into a niche where they do hire people which are ex-cons. We help them find the job, we help them with the practice for interviewing, we help them re-enter society. We know that if they get, you know, kind of spit out into society without any hand-holding and support, they're going to come right back in. And there's two ways to look at it. On one, there's the second chance where, you know, you give someone a second chance and that could be, you know, people have different opinions on that. Some want to give a chance, don't want to give him a chance. I have a lot of these conversations, some with investors, and they say, you know, these guys, I don't care about them, I don't want to help them. Help or not help, you know, that's an issue I don't really get into too much, but there's different opinions of course. But from a practical point of view, unless you're going to take these people and put them out to Mars, I have Mars here, right? Then they're part of our society. And they're part of our society, they're going to come back and they're going to hit your kids or worse. So, you know, if you have a 17-year-old, 19-year-old, 20-year-old kid, he still has a long life, he's still going to be with us for a long time, hopefully. If you're not helping to stabilize his behavior and make him kind of be part of the fabric of society, he's just going to be, you know, a wild card causing issues non-stop. So he'll go into prison, become more wild, get more violent, come out, do more problems. So again, we're not shipping anyone to other planets to the best of my knowledge. So they're in our society today. So really want to help them. And it's not just a matter of compassion to them, which I think is very important as well, but it's a matter of practicality. We have a lot of people in the society that are acting well and they're acting properly, but we don't want a few bad apples to kind of ruin it for everyone else. So in order to reach public safety, to have healthier societies, to have healthier, you know, places and communities for all of us, we need to work exactly these verticals that we're doing at SuperCom. That's why our work is so important, I believe. And also people here at SuperCom, we have over 100 employees, you know, in the US and Israel, and it's a very different feeling we're doing here than some of the roles I had in other companies in the past.

It's completely a different state when someone's on welfare or when someone's dependent, actually contributing. And when someone's an ex-con, it's even more of an issue because they're likely, just statistically speaking, they're much more likely to recommit crimes because of the way already people paint them in a certain way and self-fulfilling prophecy. They don't want to give them a job, they don't want to give them respect in certain areas. And these people just say, okay, nobody wants to give me a try, then I'll do what I know how to do best. And that's where the problems are. There have been studies actually where ex-felons have gotten an opportunity to work at a place and actually they wind up becoming your top performers, right? They work harder because they've been given the opportunity to turn their life around, right? And I mean, I'm not going to say every single felon that's going to happen with, but I would think a good portion of them, you know, to be given the opportunity to rebuild their life, they're going to be thankful to whoever it was that gave them that opportunity. Does that make sense?

It happens. We see it many times. It's very beautiful. We help in our programs, and this is mostly California because in California we do what we call full service. But much of what we do around the world, we have over 50 programs around the world that we work with. A lot of it is, you know, we work with national government and they do the programs on their own, not with us. In California, we have all the little counties that we do it for them. The national programs, we just provide them the technology and then the officers, the government has whichever programs they want. In Sweden, for example, they let them go home on the weekends sometimes. So we have inmate monitoring with our technology and they want to go home, we say great, same technology, same bracelet, grab a phone and go home and you can track them at home. So we're able to help them provide these programs that they want to do. With the drinking and driving in California, on a second DUI, instead of going to prison, many lawyers try to ask for an alcohol program. They put our bracelet on, you know, that we work through partnerships, and then for 90 days they show that they're not drinking alcohol, then they're clean, they're off. So, you know, they give them a way before going into prison where all the bad stuff starts to happen. We give them a way to try to correct themselves. Some of it's early intervention court, some of it's before they actually go in, and some of it's on the way out. So on both directions, there's many things that could be done to make the process better.

So yeah, a lot's changed over the last three years. Of course, not just myself. I mean, I moved here to be the global CEO of the company from my previous role as CEO of Americas. We brought on new people, we changed a lot of the branding in the field. We have a lot more, let's call it, younger, tech-savvy, tech-focused types here. Before, because the company was also serving business services like passport programs and driver's licenses in Angola and Ethiopia and various areas of the world, the DNA was a little bit different. So we did change a lot of the DNA out of the mission, out of the focus of the company, and we really shifted the business. We call everyone here superheroes, for example. SuperCom and the employees are superheroes. When they come on, they get a little doll for one of the superheroes of their favorite type. It could be Batman, it could be Spider-Man. I have here Superman next to me. But it's a very fun experience. We're really trying to, we're not superheroes, but we try to help the world and try to make an impact through technology and through our ways. You know, we can't shoot lasers out of our eyes, but we could do other things that with help of proper technology make a big, big change. And we see impact on tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands of people every year without the lasers in the eyes, just with the technology and just with the hard work of the teams here. So that brings in results. And the company was, three, four years ago, it was declined in revenues and it was like, in a way, a falling knife. It stopped. And we went from, I think, all the way down to $1 million in revenues from over $20 million. And from '21, we shifted around. We grew at the beginning to $12.5 million, then we grew to $17 plus million, then we grew to $26.6 million. This year, we're already experiencing growth over last year. That's just the top line. Our gross profit increased from, you know, the 30% and now it's, you know, it's still ball-park, in the last quarter was 50.1% our gross profit. Our EBITDA has improved a lot. We're reporting many quarters where we have 400%, 500%, and more growth in EBITDA. We're reporting record EBITDA, record profitability. Our net income was, just the first nine months of this year versus last year, went from negative $2.5 million to positive $2.5 million, just the net income. And one of the metrics that I like to look at the most, and we like to focus on, is also cash. Cash needs. So back then, three years ago, the cash burn was $9.7 million. This year in 2024, we don't have a cash burn, we have cash positive, $1.2 million. That's, you know, some investors don't like that because they want us to take money from them and fund the company with external capital. But if we're able to fund ourselves properly through the projects, of course, that is our long-lasting goal. Many projects require cash at the beginning and sometimes we need it, but right now we're in nice stages and late projects where we're able to, you know, run with cash positivity and grow the business. We're continuously adding more projects. We just added three more in the US with our new technologies this last quarter: New York and West Virginia and Maryland. And we won the Israeli national project, which we've been waiting for. It's been held by an incumbent for 18 years and we were able to win in the competitive RFP thanks to our technology, thanks to our abilities, thanks to our partnerships. And now we're actually rolling that project out and we think it's going to make a big impact in Israel as well, where the domestic violence laws changed a year and a half ago and now they allow for ankle bracelets for domestic violence. So here where our headquarters are, we're going to see a lot of the impact of our work. That's to be exciting as well.

Most, yes. It depends on the customer. Sometimes they want to purchase some of the hardware, but a lot of our customers, especially in the US, they have a recurring revenue model. They pay per unit per day essentially. So per each unit, you'll get between $1,000 and $1,500 a year for leasing the unit, and that's including the hardware, including the phone, including the software, including the cloud, everything. And that's how we can generate nice margins in a recurring fashion.

Yeah, they still have to purchase the software, pay for software in an ongoing fashion, have to pay for maintenance, have to pay for access. But they might buy the hardware. Like Romania, the project in Romania, over $33 million project, they had a mix of, you know, leasing and paying for software in an ongoing fashion and maintenance, but also purchasing some of the equipment. Which in a way is good and bad. It gives you cash faster because they're purchasing and also kind of ties them to you because they purchase your equipment, right? But then the recurring fashion is not as easy to predict like in some of the other programs. But in the US, almost entirely, you have recurring revenues. And the US market is three to six times bigger than the European market. We had a huge, very successful win rate. We had 65% win rate in Europe. So one company, little SuperCom, won more than other nine players put together. We're 10 players in the industry mainly. We are one player who won 65%, other nine players won 35% on the RFPs that we bid on. So that was some great success. And we hope to do the same in the US, but now we're doing it in a much more massive scale because it's much more fragmented and spread out throughout different counties, different states.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but we just had an election here in the United States. And there's going to be, I have a feeling that there's going to be like a big deportation thing going on, right? The results of the election with Trump were very good for companies like ours. There's another company that's similar to us called GEO Group. They're much larger, of course, and they do things for prisons, but they also do programs for offenders re-entering society and they also do ankle monitoring because they acquired a company called BI. Their stock did very well in the last year. They're a larger company and also like ours. When after the election, quickly after, we saw a little bump from people believing that, you know, with the Republican parties, it's going to, the treatment for offenders is going to be much more expansive and the use of alternatives and use of these programs is going to be more effective. And regarding deportation, yes, on the border there's ICE, there's an ICE program that they have over 100,000 people, I understand, in different detention programs. And that's going to, you know, scale up and then probably going to be enforcing that according to what they promised and in a more aggressive manner. That's going to require more technology, more work, more programs.

They tried. So they've been trying to do that. I don't know how important it was for them. Again, this is different leadership of the government. They tried, they did put bracelets on. They couldn't put everyone in detention centers, they didn't have enough room. They put bracelets, sometimes they followed it, sometimes they didn't. People ran away with the bracelets, you know. I'm not involved in that program, I just hear from the outside. But I do know that BI was not able to generate, to build enough bracelets. They would reach out to other companies in the industry to help them. Because, you know, we during COVID really scaled up our production. We're able to reach a production of 1,000 units per day, which is important for the projects we won during COVID and also for the projects who went after, like a 15,000-unit project requires very fast development of bracelets. So we scaled up our operations. We have redundancy. We can do things through Israel mainly, we don't need to go through China. And we're able to support rapid scale growth and numbers when needed. Our projects in the past were 1,000 units or 1,500. We tried to look at Florida, for example, they wanted you to show reference, they have a 2,000-unit project. We didn't have it at the time. Remember, this is four or five years ago. Now we have 15,000 units. So I don't think we're going to have any issues with those kind of requirements. These projects that we've been winning lately, the larger ones, they're doing very well and they've been growing faster than scheduled. You see, these projects are ahead of schedule and they're looking to add more. You know, the momentum is very good. And if we continue that, then we think other counties, other states, other programs, you're going to see it just like we're seeing now. And then we continue to expand.

That was just, okay, so you did a reverse and you had to do that in order to maintain listing on the NASDAQ, right? Was it the minimum dollar, the minimum $1 rule?

I mean, now you're kind of bouncing around between $3 and $4, right? That's where the stock is, right? Bouncing around.

So you've got, how many shares are outstanding now, roughly?

About 1.5 million, two million.

Right. Yeah, let's just start with the house arrest, you add domestic violence, you can add GPS monitoring, alcohol monitoring. And the contribution margin is up to 70% or more once you have the infrastructure there, just adding more units. So we have, and we see this, we had Sweden. Sweden was the first pioneer for electronic monitoring in Europe, 24 years. They had the same vendor. We displaced them. It started just with the Ministry of Justice, then they put Swedish police and Swedish juvenile. Finland started, then expanded. Denmark started, then expanded. We see almost, I can't say every customer, but a lot of our customers, once they're happy, they add more programs. It saves them a lot of money and it helps society, it helps public safety, and just, you know, all around a much more effective solution to what they're trying to achieve.

We had...

Mid-30s, now we're at 29-30 million. We paid off 5 million of that in the last year through some stock issuances and we had a nice forgiveness. We had a one-to-one forgiveness with our lenders basically. They were trying to incentivize us to pay earlier and for paying a dollar you get a dollar forgiveness. That's how we essentially were able to pay a lot of debt with issuing shares. But with the conversion, it's actually a significant premium of up to 100% because of this forgiveness factor. So we did that, we probably do that more, we don't know sooner or later, depends on the situation with the various creditors. But we have a senior lender, Fortress, they've been with us since 2018 and we have a good relationship with them. They've delayed the maturity many times and right now it's probably expected, right now the latest expectation is end of 2025, but we expect it to be delayed after discussions with them towards '28 or '29. And we're not required to pay amortization to them and we're paying the interest. The interest to be paid gives us a runway to work properly and focus on our business, use our cash for growth, and then once in a while we'll do some of these conversions. But mainly we have the debt that's out there and they're working with us to allow us to continue to grow the business. That's how we achieved 50, 60, and more percent growth over the last few years per year.

Our work in the past, and SuperCom has been around since 1988, our work in the past was to help governments keep track of their people. In Ecuador, they had 90 million identities for 15 million people. We did the biometric identification to help them with that. And it's very important for a country to track and understand who's in the country and where. I'm not talking about track with the location, but at least know who's in the country. You know, they come up now and if you have an entry across a massive border, that's where problems can rise.

Yeah, there's, and we've shown it time after time with our technology that we can effectively enforce restraining orders and make sure that the victim is not close to the offender but the offender is not close to the victim. And there's no reason I believe that everywhere in the world there should be laws like this to protect people from domestic violence. One of the worst things that could happen in our society, people getting violent to the people they love the most in their families. It not only does it lead to death and to extreme damage, it also leads to emotional trauma which then spreads on to other people in the community. A kid gets beat up by his father and later he goes to beat other kids up and they have trauma and they have issues. So you know, it's a core significant problem in society and we should be addressing it more and more, more focused. And it's a lot of just the politics, allow some countries to do it, some not. But I think over time every country needs to do it because unfortunately it's everywhere in the world. It's not just certain countries out there that have overcome this. We haven't seen people in regions in the world where they have zero domestic violence. Maybe they have low numbers of complaints but they're not immune to it. And unfortunately it is a problem around the world in many places, some places more, some places less. It's hard to track because people don't complain. But once you see a solution work and once women see that they complain and the person is far away from them, they see it in their environment, they see it in their country, they see it on the news, then that's where you start to see the real numbers of domestic violence. That's where you start to see real change.

See, that's why I like this, why I like your story, right? I mean, it's about more than finding companies that could potentially provide an above average return on investment, but it's also about the impact that you have on humanity, which is in this particular case I think significant, right? So every dollar that goes into SuperCom is helping to secure and help lives. I mean, the market cap itself, you ask where life is worth, I think it's worth more than the market cap that we have right now. But also our profitability, our EBITDA for the first three quarters of the year, 4.6 million. You know, if you annualize it, that's close to half the market cap. Our cash on hand is over 6 million. We do have debt but the debt, as I said, is not a cash requirement in the near term. We're able to push that into the future. And the company itself is just not getting valuation which reflects any metrics for one reason or another. There's still a valuation gap and we hope that over time that closes up. And some people are calling and reaching out and noticing this. When we won the national project in Israel, the company that lost the project, G1, is public, they announced a loss. Many people that are following G1 came to us and they said, 'Oh look, this is a very nice project they had and now it's moved over to SuperCom.' So we're expecting some good things coming up. You don't see that in the financials yet, we just won, it takes time. But within six months we hope to have a lot of the employment done. So the future has a lot of interesting opportunities, whether it's projects we won or projects we're bidding on. There's a pipeline in Europe and in the US that we're trying to continuously win more projects.

Love what I do. I think from just a geeky technology perspective, which is where I started as an engineer back in the tech world, we're working on some of the most cutting edge technologies. And we're working with different antennas, different frequencies, different environments, different issues. It's very hard to track someone 24/7, especially people that are high sensitivity like murderers or rapists. You want to have really reliable and effective tech. So we're doing some really cool things in the tech space. We put over 50 million dollars in, and that's very exciting and also effective. But it's beautiful to see technology change so many important things in the world like domestic violence, like violent crimes, like public safety. And it's beautiful to see how you can use technology in effective ways to do that. Our company is public and you know, on one hand it's nice to be transparent and to share everything. On the other hand, sometimes it's frustrating to see valuation doesn't reflect the financials and the growth. And we've had great growth over the last three years and we haven't seen much change to our market cap. We understand that that's part of the life of being a public company. But the industry we think is important, it's a 2.3 billion dollar industry, but the impact we think is tenfold of that. The thing we could do for the world, and we're becoming a leading player more and more in domestic violence and other regions of the world. We're making big changes. So we have a good team of people, we're doing good things, and excited about every day what we do.

100% in the last three years, yeah. So top line.

When the interest rates went up rapidly, that's where our stock, for no explained reason, went down by 90-95%. Since then we were performing and outperforming and reaching record revenues, record profitability, record EBITDA, record cash flow generation, winning projects all around the world against companies much larger than ours. But the stock is not yet adjusted. In the past in SuperCom, and I was there, we had similar numbers, not as good as we have now actually, and we had a market cap of 250 million dollars. Same company. We had one-time revenues in Africa and South America and the valuation was higher. So right now it looks like there's a big gap, big opportunity for those who are early on. And we'll see how it plays through over the next quarters. We continue to do our work and especially when we're cash flow positive, our reliance on the stock and things on the outside is less and we're able to focus on our operations. But we're still a public company and we try to stay updated with investors and we continue to report quarterly and to go to conferences. We started again.

We just won the national project in Israel which is a very big one. And it has potential to grow because it encompasses all of the electronic monitoring in the country. So it starts with 1,500 units but it'll grow to, you know, we don't know how much. But Israel is roughly half the population of Romania and Romania has 15,000 for domestic violence. So if you take the same numbers, that's 7,500. That means the program will grow by fivefold. We don't know how much it will grow. We do know domestic violence law just was approved in the last few years and now we're going to see how things unfold in Israel. But it's a very interesting and multifaceted project. We have other projects and RFPs we're bidding on in Europe and in the US. We have more feet on the ground, more sales, more sales support. So we are expanding continuously. And with every project we win, we have new technology we develop, whether it's inmate tracking that can go out on the weekends, whether it's alcohol monitoring that could also do other elements, whether it's these new PureOne which is a product we developed for the US which is a one-piece unit with state-of-the-art long battery life, lightweight, you could charge mobile, you don't have to connect that to the wall, whatever it is. We're just basically becoming more and more comprehensive to offer our customers a full solution. They don't need to look anywhere else. And that allows us to enter more places and more regions and continue to grow with our customers.

It's important. I believe in social impact together with, let's say, business or profit, entrepreneurship. As you can find, you can do both. One of our projects, Romania, like you're talking about, 50,000 offenders tracked every month. That's up to close to a million over six years. So 100 people here working, each one of the people here in the company is contributing to protecting 10,000 lives just with this one project. And there's many more, right? So the impact is hard to fathom. And people here sometimes are working on the code and working on the product technology. Sometimes you want to bring them up to the project level and show them what they're doing. So what we're doing here is really important for the world.

Well, it's always... today there's always articles people write. We have on StockTwits over 15,000 followers. A lot of people write stuff that's not accurate, but mostly people write good things and supportive things. Of course, anyone could write and anyone could look. We put out information very clearly and very transparently in our filings. Anyone could see if they see them, they like them, they could share it with other people in the community so that people are aware of what we're doing. Whether that be new projects we're winning, whether that be going from negative 9.7 million cash flow to 1.2 positive cash flow within a few years, whether that's 100% growth in revenues, net income flipping from minus two and a half to positive two and a half in the ninth month period this year versus last. There's a lot of significant improvements. And anyone who believes and wants to share, we're all for that.

Yes, much safer. Yes. People talk all over the world. The Romania project, it was their first project, they never did this before. But they saw what people talked about, what we're doing in other countries in Europe, and then the government in Romania liked it and they decided to do it. And then many companies that were local reached out to us, said, 'Look, they're trying to do something which is perfect for your technology,' and that's how they brought us in. You know, we don't have our ears on every single place in the world. We have through partnerships, through the help of others, we work together to do this. It's big changes we're trying to make and we need help. So we're always trying to work with others in an effective manner.

We acquire... our last acquisition was of LCA in 2016. Acquired them for 3 million dollars. That helped us a lot because after we entered California, we won 35 million in new projects, over 35 million in new projects in California. We would love to do the same in other regions of the US. There's other vendors that we work with because they buy from us the equipment that we would potentially buy. Stock is a little too low for us to want to use it a lot for acquisitions. So we're trying to do creative structures where we give minimal cash and then there's a seller note or earnout. And we are working on those. We're not in a hurry because we have very nice organic growth as I described before, 150% over the last few years. But there's opportunities out there and we are still working on them. And we could have interesting inorganic growth through acquiring some of these players and bringing us to more regions in the US where they have a good foothold and a good standing. And then we just lay on our technology which automatically brings cost synergies, they don't have to buy from anyone else, and brings offering synergies, top line synergies. Now they could offer much better solutions to the customers. We've seen that with different technologies. LCA is a reseller, the company we acquired. So we see what other people are offering, we see them right next to each other, what they're offering and what we're offering. We're able to see the huge difference and opportunity. And we want to offer the same to other vendors, other resellers that are spread out throughout the US.

The debt we talked about, just I didn't have a chance to talk about the debt, I think.

Okay, so the debt is a question that people have. And as I said, it was in the mid-30s, we paid down some, so now it's around 29 million. And what's important about the debt, and I know people hear debt, they're concerned. I think what's important is the relationship you have with your creditors. And we have a relationship from 2018. So if the debt was a problem for the creditors or for us, by 2022 when it's the original maturity, we would already have issues. It's already 2024 and it's been delayed towards end of '25, will be delayed more and more. And they give us grace in terms of using our cash instead of paying for amortization. We're using our cash for operations. So as long as things continue and the relationship continues to be good, and it is good, that shouldn't cause a big fear, a big problem like some shareholders worry about. So we push it out, we pay it slowly over time with some discounts and advantages, forgiveness that they give us. We can focus on our operations. And besides that, everything else in the business is pretty transparent and clear. They could see that the growth in the profitability and the revenues exceeded the market valuation of 7.5 million doesn't match properly, EV valuation for a company like ours.

Yeah, we do have warrants, but the exercise price is probably 8 dollars or so. So it's not anywhere close. The stock could more than double before we reach any impact from the warrants. It shouldn't worry anyone at this point. But we do have warrants out there that is also kind of a locked-in vehicle to bring the company more cash. If the stock does go to 12 or 13 dollars, we'll have cash coming in, seven and a half, eight, nine million of cash which will help us to continue our growth.

Right.

We see it a lot. We have a new project win or quarter, you could pop 50%, 70%, because there's a lot of retail. It goes up and down, but you know, people make a lot of money on the way. Our institutional base is minimal right now. In the past we had very big institutions. The market cap is a little lower, so there's not many institutions. Lately, in the last few months, we've seen a lot more interest because of the numbers. I'm guessing people just find us on their screens and they keep reaching out. Sometimes two, three times a week, just random institutions reaching out. They want to learn more about the company. They can't put in too much now, but they're starting to build their interest. And so if things start to run up, which they potentially foresee, they'll be able to get in and that will create more of a base and structure that will help the company go in just one direction in stock, because it is kind of, as you said, moving around a lot.

So companies like this who supported it, who supported even when the times were tough and there weren't investors, there's a shift from the old legacy to the new business. We put in 4 million of our capital, zero interest, our family's capital to support the company. We did it twice. So we think it's very important what it's doing. But obviously it's much more helpful we have a lot of investor interest. And luckily as the numbers are good and the expansion's good, you know, more and more investors. We certainly wouldn't want to see a company like this that touches so many lives every year disappear all of a sudden.

That's very helpful. There's thousands of counties and there's thousands of different programs of probation, early intervention, sheriff. And someone has a good relationship and they're working or touching that, of course it could be helpful if they refer us or talk about us. The technology is the newest, it's probably, I don't want to say it's the best, but we get the highest score, we win a lot of the projects. A lot of people think it's the best and it's certainly something that every county should at least try and see for themselves. And some of them don't know about it. We don't do advertisement or anything like that, it's just word of mouth, different counties that hear about us. And so in the US it's very fragmented and it's good to have that impact also in the small programs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a shame that we hear some of our competitors had to call back 20,000 units because they had technical issues. And you know, it's just a shame to hear that there's tens of thousands of people walking around with bracelets that don't work for a period of time because they haven't invested and checked out other solutions that are out there because others are working really well.

Announcements are always great. We just announced the national project in Israel. We also have New York and we have West Virginia, Maryland. We're going to have more announcements to continue to win and we're doing very well. That is a catalyst. We could also have nice arrangements with our, you know, if we do any debt paydowns or we have forgiveness, that's also very nice gains that you receive. And also potential acquisitions that you can put a good deal together. So their quarterly numbers have been good, that's always nice to have together with wins and other good news and things we're doing in business.

Yes, good, good. That would be nice. And I really appreciate you helping spread the word and all the good stuff you're doing for other companies and helping the small companies that are doing good things get their message out and get their name out and doing really good things assisting in that. So you know, you're very helpful and I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time and it's always great talking to you. It's always fun, it's always exciting and I hope to be in touch too.