S4 E9 'Shining a light on successes' with Eileen Burbidge

Thank you so much, Helen. Thanks for having me.

Oh, that's really kind. I mean, it was obviously such an honor and it was lovely. The whole thing was quite overwhelming. You know, I feel really lucky to have sort of been in this country now for close to 20 years. It's now my adopted home. I am a British citizen now as well. But to have that honor bestowed was obviously... I felt... I mean, I don't think I've got a bigger example of imposter syndrome than getting that honor and going to the Palace. It was the current King now who was the one who gave me the MBE. And actually, what I remember the most about the experience, and it was all a phenomenal day of course, is that he was genuinely lovely. But it's going to sound so bad because it's going to make it seem like I don't really think very highly of him mutually, but he was so switched on in that when he presented me with my MBE, he not only said congratulations and well done and everything, and I assume of course that he's briefed on everybody that he's giving an award to that day, but he actually said, 'Didn't I hear you on BBC Radio 4 this morning?' which I had happened to do a brief statement, it would have been a two-minute thing on something I have no idea, relating to tech or Facebook or something. And I was so startled because in my head, does he listen to Radio 4? Did somebody put that in his briefing notes? How did he know? So I remember that was just really touching, really, because I thought, wow, he's not just going through the motions as it were. So yeah, no, it was a lovely thing and I do feel really honored to have that.

It's such a lovely question. And I do feel like people are going to say, 'Well, she would say that,' but actually the truth is, it is spending time with my family, my children. So I have five children. I gave birth to four children and I have a stepdaughter that's been with us since she's been less than one, so for the last six years. And we actually co-parent, so I have either a house full of all five children or no children, a week at a time, every other week. And so maybe because of that, I really treasure the times that they're with us. You know, it's sort of maybe right about the time where I might be ready to lose my patience, I think, 'Oh well, they're going to come back to their mom's and their dad's, so I can hold on.' And obviously I'm missing them dearly and then they're back and so it's lovely. But because of that, and I guess because I don't take the time with them for granted, and also because of their age span where my eldest is now 16 and the youngest is seven, and I know how quickly it goes, I really love spending time with them. So that's really the only thing. I mean, I think when I was younger I would probably have answered the question about going out to restaurants, going to the cinema, going to the theater, and you know, all sorts of live music and the whole thing. But honestly, I don't really have time for that now. So it is whatever interests the children, and it's really great to see them take an active interest or act a part in things. So I love going along for the ride.

Yeah, wonderful.

Yeah, that's such a good question because I'm sure it's a different answer for different stages of life and different sort of perspectives. For me personally, and I'm sure it's deeply personal to everybody in terms of what they want to spend their time doing, right? But at the point where I am, and to what we were just speaking about with respect to the family and how quickly the children are growing, you know, I can scarcely believe that I'm a year and a half away from my eldest going off to uni. For me, it always comes down to, is this worth the time that would be taken away from... so it's the opportunity cost. And I'm sure that is the same for everybody, but what they're measuring in that other sort of side of the equation is probably what's different. For me, is this going to be worth the time of missing a dinner with the kids if I'm going to have to attend such and such event, or if that role or that duty is going to require travel or a lot of absence during whatever time periods. So that's the first thing, I think, and is whether or not I can do it without compromising the time, as I've already explained, a very limited time with my children. So that's the first thing. The second thing is whether or not I think I can actually make a contribution. You know, I don't mean to be ungrateful for any opportunity, but I think there are some opportunities where the contribution that's being lent is, 'Oh, well, because it's bringing greater visibility,' or 'because it's bringing more attention to something,' or 'it's shining a light on something,' versus what you can actually have impact because of what you're going to affect, because maybe what you can do, the decisions that you'll take, the recommendations that you'll make. And so that's really important to me. You know, whether or not it's something that I'll be sort of proud of, as it were, because I mean, describing it to the children and saying, 'This is what's going to take me away, is that worth doing?' But also where it's not that it's got to leave a legacy as such, but it's something where I'll know that I'll be pleased I did that in that time. So those are all things that I think... and it has shifted. And the reason I'm rambling quite a bit is probably you kindly said maybe not necessarily the investments, but actually I've applied that to investments as well. And so having led the investment in Fertifa initially a few years ago, I was consciously looking for something in this space. And it occurred to me, and I just made it convenient to say after having been an investor for nine years, but it got to the point where I thought, right, you know, we have a platform as well as capital, we can genuinely affect whether or not certain companies or propositions will have a greater chance, not necessarily a guaranteed chance of success, or exposure, or access to things. You know, where do I want to spend my time doing that? Do I want to invest my time on behalf of the firm doing that for crypto assets, or would I rather do it for something else? And so I really started spending time actively looking at reproductive, hormonal, sexual health because I thought it was really important that there wasn't enough already being spent on it. So yeah, it's kind of about the impact, isn't it?

I think so. I think the first thing I would say is, it's not a specific skill, but I think it's luck. I really think I have been incredibly lucky to have had access and exposure to a lot of options, including obviously the ones I ended up taking. And I really do think, on the other hand, certain dispositions can probably increase one's chances of finding luck or at least identifying luck. So I'm not sort of saying, 'Well, you know, I'd be happy sort of sitting in my bedroom and just waiting for luck to present things.' I think the other part of it is my parents to thank for having instilled, I think, a strong work ethic in me. So alongside the luck, which is another way of probably saying optimism that there'll always be something that will work out, there was also confidence which was established because of this work ethic. In that even if I were to be, let's say, in speech marks, unlucky, or something weren't to work out as I had hoped, I feel like I'd be willing to work. You know, if I needed to, say I'd lost a job and I still needed to find a job, I would find temporary work. It was never lost on me that I could work very hard to do... there was nothing that would be beneath me that I wouldn't be willing to do. It doesn't have to be with my degree, it doesn't have to be in this field. I'd always have found a way to make my way and to support myself. And that was something that my parents instilled in me. And I think that gave me the confidence to be able to take chances, or to look at opportunities, to look at something as a lucky option or a chance to test something, because I had the confidence to fall back on something else. And of course, that's then reinforced by, you know, I have a computer science degree, I went to a fantastic university in the US, I had exposure to what would happen in the tech sector, and so that was all helpful too. But you know, and I'm not actually trying to apply any judgment against what kind of role is more interesting than others, but even in the sort of most extreme scenario, I've sort of said I would try... I've got a driver's license, I would drive an Uber. You know, I don't mind. And I've worked in retail, I've worked in hospitality before I went to university. So I will always be able to sort of support myself. That gave me the confidence to say, 'Well, let's try something maybe a bit different because I don't know how it's going to work out.' But I was never too scared or frightened to try it. So starting a venture fund, which obviously I had no business doing because I'd never worked in venture before, or coming in as a CEO or an exec director at a business of this stage, I've not done that before. But again, I'm sort of able to rely on, I guess it's resilience, tenacity, luck, and confidence, and knowing that, well, I'll learn it, I'll work at it, I'll figure it out, and I won't give up at the sort of first hurdle. So I'm sorry, that's such a rambling answer, but it starts with luck and I think it's reinforced by work ethic, with thanks to my parents.

Yeah, I think it depends, because it depends on the cost that's being invested, right? And typically, again, if it's something where I need to pay my rent or need to pay school fees, and there's a sort of a meter on that because obviously I've got a very practical consideration, if that's not at risk, I usually measure it by, am I learning something? You know, what am I getting out of it? Not in terms of certainly materially, but am I learning something? Is this going to help inform something else that I want to do, something I want to do next, something else that I saw that was tangential somewhere else that I want to go, but this will lead me there. So that's usually, you know, am I still learning and am I still enjoying it? Is it still net positive as an experience for me because of either what I'm learning, what I'm observing, what I'm sort of soaking up, or what I'll be able to apply to something else.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, somebody else just mentioned that to me. Yeah, it's honestly, I read 52 books last year and that was the best book I read, I think. So I've loved it and I've taken so much from it. And she talks about when you're faced with a stick or quit decision, one of the things we really need to do, and often don't do, is to just articulate what the positive expected value is of sticking with the current plan and work, and also doing the same for what alternative options are. Which is, I think, the same as what you're just saying. You know, however you frame what the positive value in the future, whether that's around learning or enjoyment or reward, or covering all the basic needs that we need to cover in life, you know, are we going to get that? And then weighing up, asking the same question of other options, and then basing our decision around that. So I definitely recommend that book.

Sure, thanks for the chance to do that. And I try not to make it a plug as such, but one of the first points I probably want to clarify, only because it's not anything you could have known, but because I'm quite proud of it, so I did come in as an interim and temporary sort of chief executive, but they can't get rid of me now, so I'm permanent. I'm sticking around. I've got a multi-year plan and a really big ambition for the business. I'm so excited about what I think we can achieve. So yeah, I don't think I'll be going anywhere anytime soon. But then in terms of what we're kind of aiming to do and how we're changing, I don't know if we're changing, but I think we are coming at employee benefits with a different proposition. In that, coming off of COVID, there was a lot of conversation about mental well-being and about organizations being more responsible for their employees' well-being. There's a responsibility point and also maybe a commercial point, which is that organizations recognize they get higher productivity and more from their people if people can bring their best selves to work. And I think at the same time, there has been too little conversation normalizing attention, investments, and clinical care around reproductive, hormonal, and sexual health. And you know, I come from the States, and so what's happened with the rollback of Roe versus Wade there, but also what's happening in Italy and what's happening in Poland, you know, all really, really affects me sort of personally and worries me for my children, the next generation, and the whole thing. And so again, as I alluded to earlier in our conversation, as an investor, it feels almost like there's a mandate that we can really affect these trends. We can actually work to ensure that people will continue to get access to education, science, medical-based information, options, and choices for their reproductive, hormonal, sexual health. And that's what Fertifa is aiming to do for companies that want to provide that to their employees. Having said that, we measure ourselves based on the health outcomes for the employees and our patients, as we call them. So another way to look at it is we might be using the workplaces as our distribution channel. But yeah, we are looking to support people through all of their reproductive and hormonal health, where we have three principal pathways. The first is around fertility and family planning, hence the name of the company, and included in that would be preservation such as egg freezing or sperm freezing, but all of the assisted reproductive technologies, so IVF, IUI, ICSI, and the like. And then we also cover women's reproductive health, mostly led by, from an employer perspective, menopause support. But it's all of reproductive anomalies for women, so endometriosis, PCOS, fibroids, contraception, menstrual health, you know, the menopause of course. And then the third pathway is men's reproductive health, which we think is increasingly important and now obviously far less talked about than even the other topics. And yet, you know, 40% of heterosexual couples face fertility challenges due to male factors. One in eight men in the UK are going to be diagnosed with prostate cancer. It's, you know, male reproductive health is just too infrequently spoken about and looked after. So we look to be an impartial, you know, well-being support provider for employees, so that workplaces know that their colleagues and their employees are being looked after. And we also help to train and put in place policies for managers, line managers, HR, and well-being teams.

Absolutely. And you know, I love that you ended up being able to get support for what you had gone through. And I went through three rounds of IVF in 2017 myself. And so we often think about it as maybe a female issue, like you said. But then there's this other lens, which is an organization might actually be quite progressive and very generous and have fantastic parental leave policies in place, for example. But if they're not doing anything to help their LGBT individuals or colleagues to become parents, those individuals don't have access to those parental leave policies, because 100% of LGBT individuals will need some form of support in order to become a parent. And so to your opening statement on this topic, it is about inclusivity across every single lens, and it is about increasing accessibility, not just for women, or not just for men of a certain age or of a certain lifestyle stage, but also across other access as well.

It's a really thoughtful question, I like it. And I actually, as you were asking, I do think there are some similarities in that, you know, because I was going to say, I think you're being too generous in terms of what I did to help grow the tech sector. I don't think it was actually growing it, it was shining a spotlight on it. And I think that's very similar to then what you do with a company and a team. It's shining a light on the opportunity, the talent, the requirements, the demands, the impact, the potential, and so, you know, fill in your blank. And so much of what I did in supporting government to shine a light on the tech sector and saying, actually, the UK has such great leadership, for example, in financial services, with healthcare and health tech. It does have fantastic success stories and great case studies. It does sort of merit other people talking about it and for us to spread that word of mouth. That's what we do at an early-stage company, is try and refine the proposition that's being delivered by the team. What are the merits? What are the case studies and the examples of where there have been successes as a result of what the business has done? Is that interesting? Do you have friends that might want to join? And it's sort of, I guess it's evangelizing. It's just being an advocate for or a champion of, and just highlighting again the opportunities and the benefits of something, rather than I guess what would otherwise happen is people would just carry on and wait for something else to grab their attention. So I guess that's a lot of what it is. It's focusing and shining a light on the things or the levers, I guess, that will have the most impact.

Thank you, Helen. I really enjoyed talking to you.