9 Years of Crypto Knowledge in 60 Minutes | Bitget CEO | The Sujal Show

I'm pretty confident it can reach 1 mill.

We just want to make that stand out, but the real killer is Binance and OKX by listing Jelly. That's really like they are trying to kill Hyperliquid.

40,000 Ethereum. They don't want to sell their Bitcoin for Ethereum, right? Then that will cause market panic as well. So we said okay, we gave them Ethereum, no collateral, no maturity date, no interest. We can never let FTX happen to this industry again.

So, MicroStrategy has about 3% of the total Bitcoin supply, very strong concentration risk.

I don't think four-year cycle has already ended. I also think in 2026 there might be another round of bull market.

I want it to be on a global stage with big TradFi and fintech companies such as NASDAQ.

I think it will reach one day.

I would say GameFi. You don't hate me.

Who was Gracie 10 years ago? Gracie 10 years ago was, like you said, a journalist passionate about technology and finance in general. That's why I was very focused on this topic of entrepreneurship and finance. I did have a finance and mathematics background before being a journalist. I studied applied math and management in my undergrad. So at that time I was really curious about what's happening around the world and talking to top leaders was a great way to learn what's happening and what's going to happen.

10 years ago when I was living in Beijing, I got hooked by Bitcoin because there were some of my TV friends who asked me to check out Bitcoin.

2014. That was the first year I heard about Bitcoin. I read the Bitcoin white paper. I was immediately captured by the mathematical beauty of how Bitcoin was designed. Very clear, you know, 13-page Bitcoin white paper clearly dictated how this whole decentralized ledger works. So I bought a little bit of Bitcoin at that time and of course it went pretty well given that time Bitcoin price was only $300. Now it's some something thousand, $85,000 at least. But I think the key thing here is I was very curious. I'm still very curious about what's happening around the world now. But of course, 10 years ago, I was just a very naive young girl who was a journalist and started to know what's happening around the world.

I would say it was probably my age of 18. That was the first year I ever stepped outside of China. So before my age of 18, I've never even went out of China except for going to Hong Kong for visiting. But Hong Kong is also part of China. So age of 18, I went to Singapore. I got a full scholarship to study at the National University of Singapore. So that's the first time I went abroad and that totally opened my horizon. You've been to Singapore, right? So Singapore is a very small country but very global country. Through Singapore I visited the US, Mexico for my summer program just to study abroad. Then I went to Europe, went to some other countries. So age of 18, that's the turning point for me because that just opened the world in front of me at my younger age. And before that my understanding of the world was very limited in only China and what's happening surrounding me. So at that time I started to see number one, culture difference, to be very aware of who am I, what brought me here, where I'm going to be. I want to stand on a global stage.

And I also told my mom since National University of Singapore is number one school in Asia by many rankings, in the future I will get to the number one school in the world. That's why when I applied for my master's degree, I only applied to, you know, Harvard, Stanford, MIT. I ended up going to MIT for my MBA. So being able to continue standing on a bigger world, a bigger stage actually helped me a lot in terms of shaping who I am and knowing what I can achieve.

When I was at MIT, I studied with some Nobel Prize laureates, for example, Simon Johnson. He was last year's economist prize winner on Nobel Prize. And what he teaches at MIT is actually a course that gives you perspective on the world economy. So every single class we went in, before we start the class we actually read a lot about a specific country, for example Korea, for example why Singapore became such a prominent country given it has very limited resource. So, Simon Johnson, my MIT professor, actually brought us on a world tour, studying every single culture and every important economy in terms of how the regulations, how the specific policies and geography shaped this country in terms of the world economy. So, that's some great courses that I took. And when I look at the world today, I think about what Simon taught us in terms of okay, why for example UAE is building their architectures and cultures in this way and why this country is building their crypto regulation in another way. You know, things like that actually help me understand this world much better.

Yeah, and of course when we do our globalization and world expansion, I think a lot about this balance between globalization and localization. What I mean by that is Bitget has a quite sophisticated infrastructure in terms of our team structure, organizational structure, our product and our technology. These are globalized. But when we go to each individual country, and of course crypto trading is very personalized, very localized in the way that number one we need to build a local team. We have a country manager, we have some local team who talk to our partners. We have an on-off ramp infrastructure built specifically for this currency. Of course, most of the time we also need to talk to the regulators and make sure we have the proper compliance available there. So all those things are very localized and that's exactly what I mean by globalization and localization.

Sometimes I also look at the world users data. For example, most of the Asian users, especially in East Asia or Southeast Asia, they were very attracted by memecoins, by some speculation narratives there. But when we look at the more European users, especially about a year ago, they are very captured about the idea of DePIN, the idea of social and RWAs because that's where they see more real world applications. So the users data and the trading behavior can be very different. And of course there are also certain other countries such as Turkey, they don't allow derivative trading because of their religion and the culture. They believe anything with leverage is the same. So things like that are very typical and I just find it very interesting how that trading behavior in Web3 relate to the country's specific characters.

Yeah.

It's hard to tell what Bitget may be like 10, 20 years later in terms of the end goal. But in terms of maybe two, three years, that's the time horizon I find easier to do a prediction and that's probably the world of Bitget that I've thought about enough. So three years later, number one, we will be standing on a much bigger and global stage. Like the 10 years ago kind of Gracie, not 10, like when I was 18, it was definitely more than 10 years ago, but basically I always wanted to stand on a bigger, more globalized stage thinking about my upbringing. So similar for Bitget, I want it to be on a global stage. I want it to be the same kind of company that can be compared not just with other crypto exchanges but with big TradFi and fintech companies such as Nubank, such as NASDAQ. Yeah, so that's definitely our goal and that's why we don't limit our product offerings to just crypto or just Bitcoin and altcoins but to RWAs, tokenized US stocks, tokenized commodities, tokenized forex. As after 2024, 2025, the world of Web3 is no longer just a small world by itself, it's very much connected and integrated with the TradFi, with Wall Street, with all sorts of assets because those can all be tokenized. So that's why our offering have also been expanded.

Today you can buy tokenized gold, tokenized US stocks. More than 100 different US stocks are offered there. Very soon, maybe in a month, you will be able to purchase or trade tokenized forex, tokenized oil, tokenized silver etc on Bitget. Because indeed I think TradFi is a much bigger market, it's a 4,000 trillion market. But today RWA is probably just a 300 billion market. So looking at that there's lots of growth to be made.

It's definitely more than 100 times.

I have to highlight BGB is already shifted to Morph, which is a public chain that we incubated but we don't really own them. So BGB is used as a gas fee on Morph. I myself still hold a lot of BGB of course and then BGB is also used as the only utility in Bitget centralized exchange, Bitget Wallet decentralized wallet as well as Morph, more of as a public chain. You call it layer one, layer two, it doesn't really matter. It's more of an Ethereum layer two in terms of the technology infrastructure, yeah, but it's a public chain. So this BGB is the utility among these three ecosystems.

Well again, BGB is still the only utility token in the Bitget exchange but it's largely driven by the Morph foundation. From the exchange point of view we do have launchpool, launchpad, or sort of like earning, VIP layer, all these scenarios are using BGB. In my opinion I don't really look at BGB's price on a daily basis because BGB's growth will strongly relate to the whole ecosystem. So my goal here is not to drive our BGB price but to build a very strong ecosystem, very big exchange to make us grow to like the specific markets and specific sectors. For example, as of today, Bitget hasn't launched our perp DEX nor prediction market, but these are two specific sectors that we are building and we are also strategically partnering with some partners. Haven't announced anything doesn't mean we haven't done anything, we will find a good time to announce and to launch something. But the idea is for me I want to focus on building, focus on growing the whole ecosystem rather than purely speculating on BGB or the price itself.

BGB ecosystem specifically, with Bitget exchange growing, I'm sure BGB's holder will be more but if you want me to give a specific prediction on how many holders I actually don't know. Because again, the idea is about building the exchange and building more products that our users need. Look at the market trends, maybe three, like I said, three, four years ago when I joined Bitget, I didn't expect the TradFi trend to be so clear. I didn't expect RWAs to launch only three years later, right? Even in 2022, if you think about what happened that year for the FTX collapse, 3AC, Three Arrows Capital, Luna collapse, all these things happened in 2022. You can't believe that only two years later the US allow users to buy Bitcoin ETF already and the new president was so crypto friendly. You know, things like that you just can't expect with a three years horizon. I do think BGB has lots of growth potential. And I do think the PayFi idea and the growth on Bitget Wallet and Morph is also on the right track.

Again, looking at the trend, stablecoin is a killer sector, is a killer app sector for crypto other than maybe exchange business. I don't see that many sectors that has very strong product market fit. Honestly, if you look at, you know, things we talked about earlier, DePIN, social, GameFi, these are some of the sectors that had a hype before. But again, in 2025, if you see very strong user adoption and product market fit, you probably don't see that, at least not yet. Yeah, so PayFi, exchange business, prediction market, perp DEX which is also related to trading and exchange business are the sectors that we want to be very focused on.

I don't really have a price target and again I don't even decide the price target because the price is prediction random thoughts. Earlier this year I said BGB can reach $10 which it hasn't. But I think it will reach $10 one day.

Yes. Because we're all working for the whole ecosystem.

I just want to highlight to the market that all these perp DEXs are not DEXs in the sense that it's very much like a centralized exchange that has a centralized governance entity who decide on things. Like for example when Jelly happened, the Hyperliquid foundation can directly reverse the transaction and that's not how DEX work. That's probably how many centralized entities work, which I don't really think Jeff or Hyperliquid did anything wrong but I think they should not wear the DEX or decentralization hat while doing the CEX or centralized entity kind of behavior. And that's the key thing that I or key message that I wanted to deliver, not necessarily that specific incident.

I'm sure many of them, this just keep on happening because again if you look at some of those perp DEXs they actually largely related to some other ecosystem, maybe Aster versus Binance. There are people who suspected that many of the liquidity of Aster actually came directly from the Binance order book, which is, you know, I'm just quoting someone else's comment. I can show you that tweet they quoted, but this keep on happening. I don't have any specific incident in mind because it was never as big as Jelly. I made my point on the Jelly incident already. Again, I actually like Jeff as a person. I don't want to start any fight there. I think what they built in Hyperliquid is one of the greatest innovation and entity or platforms in this cycle. But just highlighting that some of those behaviors are not decentralized exchanges.

Yeah, I definitely don't think that decentralized exchanges will be the only form in this market. The market is so big and there are so many users who would like to try different things. Data shows centralized exchange versus decentralized exchange ratio is indeed decreasing after FTX collapse. Many people don't have that credibility or trust in some of the smaller centralized exchanges already. And we think centralized exchange versus decentralized exchange is actually more of an integration rather than a fight. It's not a you can choose only one or two. You can have both. You can eat your cake and have it too. What I mean by that is if you look at the users behavior, many of the new users are still onboarded through CEX because CEX give you the top-notch user experience, 24/7 customer service, the easiest on-off ramp experience for you to convert your fiat into crypto. All these things decentralized exchanges cannot do. So users are still mainly onboarded through centralized exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Bitget, OKX, Bybit, etc. Or maybe some other smaller exchanges. I don't really think they could survive anymore especially after FTX collapse, especially if they cannot establish their trust with their users. But the bigger exchanges like those names I mentioned earlier I think should be fine.

For the decentralized exchanges, user is typically someone who have been trading a while with CEX and they realize okay Binance only listed about 300 tokens, Bitget only listed about 700-800 tokens. There are so many other tokens that I want to trade but are not listed on CEX. So I go to Binance Alpha, I go to Bitget Onchain, I go to a DEX for those kind of trading. So that's more of a user behavior that we see and that's indeed why I think there should be integration rather than purely CEX or purely DEX.

With Solana, with actually our partnership is not just Solana, it's also with Ethereum, BSC, Base, you know, BSC, Base, they are considered as other ecosystems' public chain but for us we think it's an important public chain and we have already integrated them. So what we demonstrated in the Solana Breakpoint, when user can just input a contract address and start trading Bitget of that token even if we haven't listed that token, you can do the same in total six chains today which are Ethereum, Solana, Base, Morph as well as Monad. Actually Monad chain is just going to launch today.

So MicroStrategy or Strategy however you want to call it has about 3% of the total Bitcoin supply, so very strong concentration risk. That's one thing I highlighted earlier about a year ago. And another thing is if you look at what happened on all these DAT, digital asset treasury companies, a key concept is they want to remain or keep a high MNAV, the multiple of net asset value. And MNAV has been less than one for a long time for many DAT companies. That means the amount of token that they hold on the company's balance sheet is even smaller than the market value. And that means they can't buy the token on a premium because the market value of the company or the company's book value versus market value is not going to give you that premium. So that's a risk that I see in lots of DATs. If you can't have that premium or even if your... basically there are also lots of DATs whose token are very much locked. And that's indeed why the MNAV is smaller than one.

Locked by for example this DAT maybe have the partnership with a crypto foundation and those tokens come from this crypto foundation but it's locked. You can't sell the token on day one of the listing on the open market. Some are locked for one year, some two years, some maybe half year or they have a vesting schedule. Because if you think about it, if it's not locked, what the company can do is just directly sell, right? Sell the token. So the foundation wants them to be locked. Indeed, every DAT partnership is different and the structure is different. The token unlock schedule is different. We will need to look at individual structure and many of them, most of them, maybe 99% of them are not public information.

But going back to MicroStrategy, I still see some risks involved in terms of MicroStrategy may sell some of the Bitcoins on their hands in order to pay back their creditors. And then the premium of the DAT MNAV is not as high as it was before. It could be as high as two or three times. Now for MicroStrategy it's almost to one. One means there's no premium. It's just book value equal to the market value. So that's the kind of risk that I see. Concentration risk, potential risk that many of the companies don't have this premium so they cannot raise the fund anymore. And then for the stronger risk is when there are companies structure whose token are all locked or partly partially locked. Some of the companies outside who may be hedge funds, they can actually target these DATs and drive their equity price further down.

Okay. Right. There are companies like, is it Waterbridge? No, the Chinese name is Henry. I think there were some companies if you look at the movie The Big Short.

I'm not doing that obviously because I'll never short the crypto industry or web3 industry. But I'm sure there are some TradFi companies who, it's been said that there are certain TradFi companies who have been targeting MicroStrategy and drive their equity price further down. And I'm sure if there are companies who do the same thing to other DATs whose fundamentals are not strong, whose tokens are locked, it could potentially happen again.

I think the top DATs should be okay. If they can continue raising the fund, MicroStrategy, Tom Lee, Bitcoin, Ethereum kind of DAT should be okay. But the longtail DAT is not performing well already. Not to say the future. There are maybe 10, maybe five DAT deals that approached me as a private investor and I looked at their structure specifically. There are definitely more than 10 who talked to me, but those five that I looked at specifically, I think number one, many of the longtail DATs, when I say longtail it's definitely a token falling maybe outside of the top five or top 10 cryptocurrencies. There are also companies who approached us to include the BGB as a DAT strategy and we refused all of them. We said no to them because I don't see the longtail DATs performing as well as the top-notch DATs.

I think 90%. 90% go bust. About half a year ago, when I looked at all the Bitcoin DATs around the world, there were about 81, 100-ish sort of DATs globally. Of course, US is the largest market. There are Canada, Japan, even Hong Kong who has some DATs. All those companies are listed in open market and all of those are Bitcoin DATs which is slightly better because Bitcoin's pricing and the change of price wouldn't be as dramatic. But many new DATs who come up with not Bitcoin as holding, maybe some random top 30 meme coin or top 50 whatever public chain kind of token, I think those are slightly dangerous especially if they have a long lock-up period.

First of all, I want to highlight, yeah, 40,000 Ethereum because that time their Ethereum were hacked by Lazarus and they needed Ethereum for the short-term crisis when there were lots of users withdrawing Ethereum. And also we only used our own funds rather than our users' funds. I made it super clear because the users' trust is non-negotiable. We can never touch users' funds. Then back to your question, what taught me about that? Number one, I think you highlighted a very interesting fact which is all these exchanges are competitors on a daily basis. You know, we fight for users, we fight for token listing, we fight for talents. There were some, like my listing head came from Bybit. Some other ecosystem, many heads of ours come from Bybit. Some of our key employees also went to Bybit. So this is kind of very healthy fight or healthy competition that has always happened among all these exchanges which I think is good. But in an incident like what happened to Bybit earlier this year was another totally another thing because at that time what we saw is our crypto industry need to work together to build trust. We can never let FTX happen to this industry again. When FTX happened, all the people just lost interest and trust in the CEX. And the whole industry, I feel it just went, were dragged down by maybe two years, delayed the development. So when Bybit happened, we talked to Ben and we asked him, you know, what help do you need? And he said, you know, just not even like a request, it just like naturally said, yeah, maybe some Ethereum because all these people are withdrawing Ethereum from us now and they don't want to sell their Bitcoin for Ethereum, right? Then that will cause market panic as well. So we said, okay, let's lend some Ethereum. And then we gave them Ethereum. No collateral, no maturity date, no interest. We just gave it to him because we trusted Ben. We trusted Bybit. So that's the kind of healthy competition and collaboration that was happening. And I think again in that situation, and of course exchanges were never each other's enemy. Rather than cutting the pie, what I want to do is to grow the pie. Only if the pie is bigger, that just by maybe for us like 10% of the share is good, it's decent enough. And that's why you see when Bybit happened, we stepped up to help our competitor or peer exchange because we want to keep the pie big and hopefully grow the pie bigger. And again, if we look at our strategy, we don't just fight with each other about this token listing. We grow the pie bigger because we are including more tokenized stocks, tokenized assets on our platform. That's where you get more users. You know, some previous TradFi stock users they can start to trade in crypto now because I can offer Tesla, I can offer Nvidia as well on my platform. After Bybit, we did a lot of checks internally, externally on what can potentially happen that were wrong and cost us similar very big payback. You know, we checked on our risk system, on individual accounts, on the whole separation of code and hot wallet, on the service providers, on potentially people using AI to deepfake people and industrial leaders or go through KYC things like that. So we did a lot of checks on different levels internally and externally to avoid what could happen to us because we know all the hackers are targeting the CEX. And of course later this year you see a being hacked by the same North Korean group. And again, I think this fight will never end. If you see overall, it was a very bad incident for the overall industry, but if we see the positive side, it brought all the crypto community together at the same time to fight the wrong actors.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

I don't think four-year cycle has already ended. But I do think four-year cycle is smoothed out by the mainstream, by the Wall Street, by the larger macroeconomics. What I mean by that is four-year cycle is, of course we know that it's driven by the Bitcoin halving and largely a narrative or a belief among the crypto circle. It has happened before. We think, or the crypto circle, more crypto-native people like miners, like project funders, even exchanges may still believe. And even if Bitcoin ETF and DATs are the two capital inflow ways in this current bearable cycle, still the crypto-native people like exchanges and miners hold a lot of Bitcoin and are still very sizable. So I feel these two kind of strength are fighting each other. And that's why four-year cycle is not as prominent as it was before. Now there are US interest rate cuts, more macroeconomic, more crypto-friendly frameworks coming around from the US and from the world that's helping smoothing out the four-year boom-bear market cycle. I also think in 2026 there might be another round of bull market especially if the interest rate cuts are higher than expected and more liquidity coming from the US and the world. Bitcoin wasn't performing as well as gold or top M7 US stocks like Nvidia in the 2025 year. But I think 2026 there is a potential that Bitcoin can catch up.

I think if what I predicted really can, and we are going to enter another maybe shorter but maybe fast bull round, Bitcoin can be as high as 150k or maybe a lower top target can be 130k which is at least surpassing our previous all-time high. But that will be up to the US liquidity. So interest rate cut, Fed's decision, the new Fed chairperson, things like that are driving Bitcoin's price and crypto price. And this integration between Bitcoin or crypto community versus TradFi has never been tightening as tight as it is now.

I'm a slightly conservative, more conservative person on this stand. I do think Bitcoin will reach 1 million one day but not necessarily within four, five years. I'm looking at 10 years. 10 years later I'm pretty confident that Bitcoin can reach 1 mil. Because again, the liquidity is driving most of the financial assets price and of course Bitcoin as a pure liquidity catcher. I think that's why it's going to grow up. It's the digital gold. It's the one and only cryptocurrency that is considered or being added to many of the strategic reserves around the world including the US. So Bitcoin being the digital gold, it's the core reason for capturing all this liquidity and hopefully price can reach 1 mil. Yeah, I'm pretty confident can reach 1 mil in 10 years.

2035.

Not that strange, not that strange. Okay, it's a very small country. Singapore is very small.

No, like I said, Singapore was the only country that I've ever went to other than China.

Young girl, how young?

In her 20s. Okay, that's like a maybe a version of me 10 years ago. I would say you don't need permission to enter this industry, but you do need a plan. And at age of 20, learn as much as possible, as many things as possible. You know, learn Bitcoin, read the Bitcoin white paper for sure. It's only 13 pages. I still think 95% of the people in this industry maybe haven't finished the Bitcoin white paper and that's strange because we need to change that. I actually teach at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology about crypto finance. I invited some industry leaders including Joe Lubin, including Yasu, including Haseeb from Dragonfly Capital to speak at my class. And the first lesson or the first assignment that I gave to my students was to read the Bitcoin white paper. I asked all of them to finish that and I think the same goes to our audience today. You should finish reading the Bitcoin white paper. So back to your question. I think that little girl should start somewhere by really getting yourself educated, not just following some hype or Twitter accounts to hear the noise. Of course, we need to do that and crypto is largely inspiring or passionate or built on X.com. Because lots of discussions were happening there especially what's going on right now. But for you to have a strong foundation, you want to read those white papers, you want to understand how blockchain as a technology really works, you want to understand what is ZK knowledge, the zero knowledge kind of ZK proof which is again an important technology that builds lots of layer 2s. So you want to get yourself really educated by those foundations. And then for that young girl, I would say, you know, 20-something, it's not early to start investing in crypto but you only want to invest in the crypto that you understand. Maybe buy Bitcoin, Ethereum and hold it for the long run rather than purely thinking about, okay, I can grab this altcoin and get 100 times within a week. That's called gambling, that's not investing. So this is the kind of key lessons that I'm teaching my students and hopefully our audience should understand before starting investing in crypto. Then I would say you should find a job in this industry. Maybe you can do your own studio or set up your own channel like yourself, right? Be a KOL, be an industry key opinion leader in this space or you can find a job in an exchange, in a top-notch project. We have more than 100 opening positions at Bitget in technology, in marketing, in operations, in business development or sales, in HR, in finance, in financial product development, etc. everything. So whichever talent you have, you are a talker, you are a marketer, you join our marketing team, you are a coder, you join our technology team, right? You can find a job in this industry so easily as far as you are passionate about web3, you're passionate about a specific project and you have some skill set. So I would say these three steps maybe are good ways to start. Number one, get yourself educated on the foundations. Number two, try to find a job in this space. And number three, start investing in Bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies that you are passionate about.

What's the overall experience or what do you mean by overall experience?

Like sort of sexual harassment or just bias towards gender? Like maybe if someone feels creepy behavior in this industry. When I was younger, in my early 20s, I've definitely faced similar things, especially in the working environment. You have some senior, older males who are interested in you. Maybe they're just interested in having a coffee with you, not necessarily developing anything, but they showed some interest not in a way that you appreciate. For me, what I did was just say no. Clearly no and step away from that person. I'm okay not to do this deal, but I'm not okay with me being sexually harassed or just feel offended in that way. So I want those ladies to be aware that you can say no and say a firm no and focus on what you should do. And a good working environment will not tolerate toxic actions like that. So just refrain from the bad behaviors or a toxic situation. As a leader myself today, what I can do is definitely more than just saying no. What I can do is to build an environment that's better for everyone, for gender equality, for empowering females in this space. And that's why when I started to work at Bitget, I started this CSR program called Blockchain for Her. Actually, I'm wearing my Blockchain for Her T-shirt now. Just want to quickly show everyone. Lady Forward. Yeah, like her slogan here is not Lady First but Lady Forward. Because Lady First was of course a nice gentle words that's said to lots of ladies but it's said from a male's perspective. Like you tell me, okay Gracy, lady first, I'll open the door for you. But my message here is we don't need guys to open doors for us. We can open our door and build our own empire. So not Lady First but Lady Forward. So that's definitely a mindset that I want to change. But for those ladies, I want you to know that you are a victim, you didn't do anything wrong and as a victim, please protect yourself and refrain from going to dangerous places or continue in a toxic relationship. And that's not your fault, that's their fault. So always don't blame the victim. And as an industry, we need to work together to build a more healthy industry. I want us to not just, I feel crypto has gone through this journey maybe 10 years ago when people were just doubting, you know, what's Bitcoin, are you guys all scams, to now they gradually accept Bitcoin. Like Wall Street started to hold a lot of Bitcoin, BlackRock has the ETF, they started to accept. But we haven't gone to the stage where we earn the respect. And from being accepted to being respected, the gap is actually things like what you mentioned, like whether we respect gender equality, where we respect different race or different belief, where we have LGBTQ kind of equal opportunities, where we don't discriminate anyone who has a child or especially a working mom. Like I'm a working mom and when I was 20-something and I was just got married but I didn't have a kid yet. I was also raising fund for my previous web2 company and one of the investors told me, Gracy, we like you as a project founder, we like your project, but we do not invest in female leaders especially those who got married and who didn't have a kid yet because they thought having a kid is going to impact my commitment to my work and my startup. Which is of course wrong. As a working mom, I'm super hardworking and I grew Bitget to where we are today. But that's a stereotype and that's the kind of stereotype we should never allow in this industry. I definitely don't allow them in Bitget.

RWAs. For sure. RWAs and PayFi. So those are the two sectors we are building a lot on. Why RWAs and PayFi? Because that's where you see strong product market fit. Coming from a web2 background, I'm a strong believer into having product market fit rather than just narrative. I don't think narrative brought where we are today. But the real adoption is where technology of blockchain can really change something or make something more efficient. And again, that's where we see RWAs and PayFi can be applied with technology to, number one, it's a big market, those both of them, you know, stablecoin, global cross-border transactions and all those TradFi products, those are originally very big market already. And then number two, the technology can really make a difference rather than just putting the technology there and say, okay, I feel social, game, DePIN, our sectors a little bit like I'm just doing this technology for the sake of doing, for the sake of adding the web3 element rather than really changing anything. Because Twitter is already very powerful but if you do a web3 version of Twitter, where do you have your users, right? That network effect will never come out. This whole experience will not be better because you added web3 element or technology of blockchain. But PayFi and RWAs are different. Technology of blockchain can really make those transactions faster and cheaper. So that's why we see these are where the killer apps should be and where we are focusing on.

Bitcoin.

Solana. Maybe just because I know Lily better than Vitalik.

I would say GameFi. Don't hate me.

Yes.

RWA.

Net damage.

You mean retail, right?

Pure TVL.

There are risks involved in MicroStrategy.

For me, when I was younger, early 20s, I heard you are not paid by how hard you work but by how hard you are to replace.

Read Bitcoin white paper. Know the fundamentals. That's the key thing.

Yes.

Thank you. Thank you so much.