Hello everyone. My name is Juji Shereamen and I'm an MBA student at MIT Sloan. It's my absolute honor to introduce our very first panel of the day and of the conference. Power players ESPN and DraftKings reshape sports betting for the fan. With us here today, we have Stephen A. Smith, featured commentator and executive producer on ESPN's First Take. We also have Jason Robbins, CEO and co-founder of DraftKings. We have Burke Magnus, president of content at ESPN. And present and moderating this panel is Kevin Neandi from ESPN. This panel will run for 45 minutes. Mr. Neandi, it's yours to take.
Thank you very much. Good morning everyone. We understand that the weather was really bad, so it's great to see everybody here, especially that Boston drive time coming in overnight as well as this morning. There is a lot to cover here in this 45-minute session. It's great to have these three guys take the time to join us to talk about the layers and how much sports media continues to change and now adding the element of DraftKings and the relationship with ESPN. So Jason, let's start with you. When you look at all the options out there, why was ESPN right for DraftKings?
Well, I mean, ESPN is the leader in sports and we want to be with the leader. We want to be with the best. I think the content and both the, you know, licensed content and also the original content is unparalleled in the world of sports. And ESPN's brand is unparalleled in the world of sports. So, those are all things that we want to associate with. But what really got us excited was when the teams got together and talked about all the different ways we can collaborate, including one I know we're going to talk about in a moment that go beyond, you know, the content, the marketing. It really is about the fan experience, the product, and that's core to ESPN's DNA. I've never seen a company that cares that much about its customers except maybe DraftKings. They really do care about engaging the fan first and foremost and that's something that's very exciting to us.
Burke, by the way, won the outfit of the day, the quarter zip and the comfort. You win no matter what. I love that. So how does DraftKings fit into ESPN's broader digital audience strategy?
Well, first of all, just to echo what Jason just said. I mean, our perspective on the partnership was exactly the same except looking to them as the leader in the sports betting space by far in our opinion and the brand that they have which is so incredible. It was a long and winding road for us to get here as we figured out or tried to figure out the best path for ESPN to play and to partner in this space. But we couldn't be more happy about it as we sit here today and we're just getting started which is really the exciting part. But the combination of these two things is really going to be a powerhouse over time and we share a lot of the same philosophies about how we work, you know, what our pace is, what our expectations are. And I just know, you know, just from early days, like, you know, we're excited because we feel like we share the same space in a lot of ways but just from different angles. So, it's the combination of those two things that'll help rise the tide for both of us. And we're excited about that for sure. You know, in the digital space, well, listen, I mean, we're about reach. And, you know, whether that's on linear television where all of our numbers, you know, at the moment, thank goodness, thanks to talent like Stephen A and shows like First Take and others, you know, up and to the right. And so, we've got linear reach, which is unparalleled. We've got a 24/7, 365 conversation with sports fans where a lot of other sports media entities really play part-time, you know, and primarily in live events and not in the conversation around sports. But, you know, our secret weapon in many ways is our digital reach. You know, we had, you know, between ESPN's branded digital platforms, our off-platform branded social and YouTube, we had 227 million uniques just in January. And, you know, which is an incredible statistic. It's 81% of all adults in the US. It's far beyond our competition. And it's really the, you know, it's the secret sauce to keep conversation around sports going and to reach sports fans. So, you know, we think that, you know, over time it's that plus the big events that we have, the rights portfolio that we have really is the combination that will win here.
We're talking about two big brands, right, coming together. And Burke mentioned the angles coming together. How do we balance that brand with independence and credibility? Jason, why don't you start?
In terms of each brand separately, you mean? Well, I mean, I think the good news is both brands actually stand for a very similar thing, which is engaging the sports fans. So, there's not a lot of space between it. I think from a what we each bring to market standpoint, there's a clear role that each company plays. And I think that's what makes great partnerships is you have a very similar philosophy of how you want to engage the customer. The customer is the same customer. It's a sports fan. And we're bringing different things to the table to create a complete package for that sports fan. And I think what you'll see is that the two brands are going to be alongside each other in everything that we do. We view it as a huge positive to have our name next to ESPN. It's a great association for us. So, we'll take that anytime we can get. And you know, like I said, I think it's really Burke used the term, you know, rising tide. I think it's really one of those things where it's going to lift both of us up to have our brands next to each other.
And for us in the betting space, frankly, you know, our prior effort in the space carried our brand. And I think actually getting our brand out of the middle of that is a good thing for us. And coupling that with a partnership with DraftKings where their brand is so synonymous with quality and engagement and reliability and authenticity in the sports betting space is really important to us. And that way I think then it makes it easy for us to do what we do independently and have this partnership where we can deliver for fans everything they're looking for from a sports betting perspective.
There's another tricky balance here when we talk about partnership credibility and let's start with Jason again here when we talk about leagues approaching this collaboration. How are they approaching it? This partnership in the sports betting space.
Well, we have great relationships with all the sports leagues as does ESPN and they're excited about this. I had so many people from the leagues reach out when we first announced the partnership and say what a great move they thought it was and how excited they were to see two of their partners coming together. And I think it's for all the reasons Burke was saying. They know that we both stand for quality and they know that we're going to do something that enhances their fan engagement too. And that's ultimately for them what this is all about. You know, people watch more games. They watch longer. They're more engaged in the statistics and the digital piece of it when they are betting on sports and ESPN's content is the same thing. The more that they are reading and learning about what's going on, the more different teams, the more different things that they're interested in. So, it's really all about the fan engagement and obviously the sports leagues love that.
Yeah. And our, you know, listen, I was in the rights licensing business for our company for a long time and relationships in this business are paramount. It's everything. And I always treated that as, you know, that's our, it's the ultimate tiebreaker, right? Obviously, leagues are looking for revenue. They're looking for relevance and but they're also looking for a partner that will, you know, will share their goals and their aspirations. And I, you know, we used to always say in meetings, we want to be your best partner. And it wasn't just lip service. We really meant it. We wanted to separate ourselves from the competition by how much we cared about the league's business and how we wanted to advance their goals as well as ours. Obviously, we're running our business simultaneously. But, you know, the relationship game, you know, as it pertains to the leagues that, you know, that we license some of our most important content from, you know, really can't be overstated.
So, as a host, I'm breaking every single rule because we're 10 minutes into this panel and I've let our superstar stay quiet for 10 minutes. And as my job as a host is get to the star. So, I appreciate Stephen A. Smith and his patience. We'll get to that because I have a handful of questions for you. I do want to talk about one other thing that Burke just brought up. He brought up a partnership. You know, for fans here and Jason, let's start with you. What can we expect here from ESPN and DraftKings in the short term now that the partnership is a few months in?
Well, I do want to hear from Stephen A too, so I'll be quick. But is this a good time maybe to announce what we... So, we are really excited. It should be live sometime for the next week for the conference games and also of course ahead of March Madness, we are going to be linking DraftKings and ESPN accounts. People will have all sorts of features such as, you know, once you fill out your bracket, it can easily recommend bets and import that into DraftKings and all sorts of connectivity. We're just getting started. There'll be more and more things we build out, but we're really pumped about this and it's going to be, you know, one of those great examples of something that goes beyond just the marketing and is really truly about integrating the fan experience and creating a seamless, cohesive experience for people using DraftKings and ESPN, which of course there's a lot of overlap there. So people really I think are going to love this feature.
Yeah, I love the sports calendar because it presents these opportunities from time to time to really launch something that's important in a major way and to have account linking functionality ready to go for championship week next week and for the NCAA tournament. Having fun features that allow people to personalize, you know, what they're doing both on our app and in the DraftKings product in terms of like betting your bracket is going to be a really exciting development for us. And it is kind of, you know, it is something that fans are looking for from us and I'm sure from Jason, his team is more personalization, more ways to sort of cut across products and have them both work for you in the ways that they do best. So really excited about that. And you know, nobody really loves March Madness, I don't think more than I do. So I'm very excited that I'll be able to have that feature personally myself.
And it's on ESPN.com as well as DraftKings, this tournament challenge, that connection, right? That partnership.
Yeah, most of the experience is going to be in their environment in terms of the account linking functionality. But it's something that I think fans will absolutely love. And by the way, just in case they need further incentive, we're going to give everybody a code for a free month of ESPN Unlimited should they want that.
Okay, that's great. Stephen A.
We broke a world record, by the way.
13 minutes in. 13, that'll go on my grave. 13 minutes.
I'm a patient man, especially when I'm learning. So, I'm good. I appreciate you weighing in on this especially considering what you do on a daily basis with First Take and how we've integrated conversation whether it's on Sports Center, First Take, Get Up, the betting space. You've been in this media business for over three decades. How much has the media changed with the changes to betting and how has it kind of reshaped how fans watch from your perspective?
Well, I think it's changed from the standpoint that it's intensified. I mean, make no mistake about it that there's more fan interaction. There's more fan involvement. You know, back in the day, you know, especially before 2018 when the Supreme Court ruling came down. Back in the day, you're betting at casinos. Then all of a sudden, you're on your smartphones. Now, it's live in action. You're betting on the games. You're integrated into it all in a way that you have never been like you've never done before. And as a result of that intensity, all of a sudden, people don't realize it puts even more pressure on us as talent. And me personally, I love it. But a lot of people don't. You know, they talk about wanting to be on TV. They talk about wanting to be a face. They talk about wanting to be in the thick of things, but that pressure mounts because normally in the past when people called in, they're watching sports show, they're listening to sports radio, etc. It's narratives that they're talking about now. They're betting directly and they're invested directly and as a result, you know, they're looking, I got an opportunity to win some money. Your damn prediction messed me up. Do you know what you're talking about? So, it adds an immense amount of pressure to the situation, which to me, you got to love it in order to do it. So, when you go on First Take, well, here's the deal with being on First Take, especially if you're in my position. Other analysts come and go. They might be there a day or two a week or whatever. Every morning at 10:00 a.m., you're expecting to see me. And when you see me, you're expecting me to know what the hell I'm talking about. Now, obviously, I'm not going to be right every time. All right? I can sit up there and look at the probability and say, 'You know what? I'm at about 95%.' They don't want to hear that. The 5% might as well be 50%. Because that 5% you got it wrong. They hating on you because you got this wrong. And they remember. And so all of those things come with it as well. That makes it more fun. That makes it more intense. Then you put guys like Joe Fortenbaugh and others on the air with us who's absolutely outstanding. He's sensational at what he does. He's getting all the odds. He knows the oddsmakers. He's one of them. He's telling you what the odds are. He's telling you what the injury report is, who's available, who's not, what somebody did six months ago in the fourth quarter compared to what they did in the second quarter. You're like, damn, I didn't know that. That's I'm learning. And then all of a sudden you recognize the fact that all of it comes with what we're talking about right here right now. The partnership between DraftKings and ESPN having that platform. We are the monolith. We're the worldwide leader. So there's an expectation that comes with it just because of that. But then you add along the fact that we partner with somebody like DraftKings. It intensifies even more because the level of credibility is cemented. And instead of hoping, there's an expectation. And when you don't live up to that, they remember it was your fault. It was you. And as a result, you can end up losing a lot. So all of those things contribute to the revenue. It contributes to the ratings. And you as a talent, you have to be willing to embrace all of that. And the reality is that for many, many years, you had people in the industry that didn't want that on their shoulders. They just wanted to do journalism. They just wanted to contribute to narratives. They just wanted to speak their peace and go home. Now people know where you live just in case you get stuff wrong. So these are the kind of things that you got to recognize as a talent and you got to be willing to embrace it. You got to live it. You can't just do it and think that you get to fade into the twilight and go away. There is no going away.
When you get it right, do they remember or they don't remember that?
Well, they remember it. They just don't care once the next bet comes around. They're not like, forget that was nice Monday, but look, damn it, it's Friday. What you got for me today? And again, that's why I said you got to live it. It can't be something, there's no vacation in terms of your mentality and your approach to how you do this and how you embrace it.
Does it change? You brought up Joe. You brought up Joe Fortenbaugh, by the way. You brought up the idea of bringing the betting conversation to a topic, right? And there's journalism, there's layers, there's facts. Like the journalism part is, hey, Jayson Tatum's returning tonight for the Celtics, right? But then there's the layer that the line may have moved. How much does that help with narratives and conversations that you guys have daily?
Well, it helps immensely because it lets you know we wouldn't be talking about it unless the audience was interested in hearing about it. So in my positions, like, you know, you have so many people particularly with the advent of podcasting and all of this other stuff everybody talks about being their own boss. I'm proud to have bosses because there's a line that's drawn in the sand. In other words, there are guard rails and you know what they are and what not to cross if you're smart. When you want to be so independent and you want to act like you don't answer to somebody, that's nonsense. You see a whole bunch of people in the digital stratosphere acting like they don't have any bosses. Well, who's sponsoring your podcast? Where are you getting your money from? You're always doing business with other people. So, you got to be mindful and cognizant of that. But in the same breath, understanding that it's ESPN, it's a monolith. This DraftKings, who's big time, obviously, you know, there's two separate entities even though they're partners. On the one hand, you've got ESPN. Certainly, we're partnered with DraftKings. We're proud to be partnered with DraftKings. We're going to do what we going to do in that sports game and the sports betting world. But in the same breath, we're still ESPN. There is that journalistic integrity that comes with it. How you approach doing your job. Are you digging for information? Are you cultivating resources and sources? Are you being responsible enough understanding you don't just represent yourself, you represent the company and the brand? And you got to go out on the air knowing that and you act accordingly. But in the same breath, you got a beast out here to feed. And that's a whole bunch of folks that are betting. Remember in 2018, they speculated that legal wagering was at about five billion. Well, today it's at over 150 billion. It's increased exponentially. And because that's the reality of the situation, you got to recognize that those folks don't work for ESPN. They want to hear what you got to say. And they want to know why. And they want it based on the analytics and the data that they've read about, that they've heard about, that they've heard Joe Fortenbaugh over the airwaves spewing about. And then they want to hear your opinion. And oh by the way, even if they agree with you, they're still going to challenge you because they want to double check and triple check to make sure they on point before they invest their money in this bet. So you dealing with all of that stuff while you have to still deal with an institution like ESPN that prides itself on being the worldwide leader, being responsible, but being entertaining, being informative, etc. All of those things come with it. Again, it's about your willingness to accept the responsibility that comes with it. A lot of people say they want it, but trust you me, they don't want the heat most of the time. And guys like Burke Magnus and others and Jimmy Pitaro and others are expert at sifting out those who really want the heat and those who just talk about it but are willing to run the second it gets a little warm.
Well said. Well said. Especially with the heat that's applied every single day and magnified to every decision no matter what it is. One of the things that we've also seen through social media, through the reaction is the viewer is now an active participant. They're not just passive just sitting there waiting as Stephen A's talked about like just give me the news and that's it. They want more. How does sports betting allow that where you can become an active participant as a fan? Jason, let's start with you.
Well, I mean, I think the very nature of it is that it's taking something Stephen said or something you came up with on your own and saying, I want to actually have that be something where I really have some skin in the game. I really care about it beyond just it was my opinion and I want to be right. And I think in life people want to do that. Whether it's a business idea, whether it's anything, if you have something you feel conviction about, you want to be able to at times put some money on it. One of the things I love about sports betting is it doesn't actually change why people watch the game. This is, I think, something that's misunderstood. People watch the game, at least most people. Some people want to see great athletic, you know, but most people watch game because they have a rooting interest. Usually it's your home team, your favorite player, whatever it is. You care about the outcome of that game. You care about the outcome of that player's performance. That's always been the case. That has been since sports has been around. What betting does is it gives people an opportunity to do that across all sorts of games and things that they wouldn't otherwise have that hometown, that other connection to. That's when I first got into fantasy sports and betting. That's what I loved about it because I loved watching sports and I would always watch my favorite teams. But I really had no desire to watch the other games, but I loved watching sports. And all of a sudden, I'm like, I can watch all these games and I'm going to love it just as much and I'm going to get all this great stuff and I'm going to watch Stephen. I'm going to watch all these programs and it just takes it to a whole different level. I care so much more about things that normally I wouldn't have a rooting interest in. So, it doesn't really change the core fundamental thing. You want a rooting interest. That's why we watch sports. What it does is it makes it everything matters. Everything that you bet on, any player, every play, even games that aren't close, you can still be live betting. And so just the amount of engagement it creates for a sports fan who really just wants more sports, wants more sports talk, wants more opinions from their favorite people, it's endless.
Or I mean, I think what both of these guys are describing is really the contemporary fan existence as we sit here today in 2026. Like, that's what people want. That, I mean, one of the reasons, you know, we, this was years ago...
We decided we were going to make an effort to get into sports betting, mostly from an information perspective. Fans were demanding it; it was part of the experience they wanted. That has always been the case, but now it's being done by DraftKings and others in a very fun, responsible, and exciting way. It is unquestionably table stakes for the modern fan, and it broadens your interest and experience to other teams, leagues, and sports entirely. Look at the rise of women's sports and other things; it brings the same experience to anything you want. That's the exciting part for us because it really does rise the tide for fandom across the board.
There are two pivotal points I wanted to mention. Back in the day, before all of this really took hold, you had people in the world of journalism—talent, reporters, radio hosts, television commentators—who wanted to do their job and give you a narrative, hoping an audience would gravitate towards it. The beauty of what's going on today is the fans are not only telling you what they want, but they're honest about why they want it because they're betting. They're not asking you to pay attention and appease them; they are telling you. And if you don't listen, they're going to find somebody who will. And then all of a sudden, you ain't going to have ratings, you're not going to be generating revenue, and before long you're going to be out of a job because you didn't pay attention to what the audience wanted. So as a result of that, you piggyback off of something like that and you fast forward to today's world and it's a reason to be excited, not just cool with it, but excited about our relationship with DraftKings, sports gaming, sports betting, period. What's the excitement about it? You are forced to ingratiate yourself with the fans more than ever before. You have no excuse to be oblivious to what the fans are looking for, what they want to know, what they want to see, what they want to hear, and why. Every day I wake up and I do a 7:30 a.m. morning call for the rundown for First Take. Before I go to sleep, I'm looking in the digital stratosphere, social media, and beyond. What's trending? What's going on? What is the audience paying attention to? I'm anticipating what's going to be percolating by 10 a.m. So when I get up in the morning, I'm like, 'Okay, this is what we should lead with in the A block. This is what we should lead in B block.' The only reason I'm the executive producer—we got great producers on the show, we got great producers at ESPN, period—but the reason I'm the executive producer is because in the moment while I'm on the air at 10:00, all of a sudden something's going on and I'm watching the way this person's delivering the goods, that person's delivering the goods. I'm like, 'Change it up. Go to this. Go to this person first. Go to this person last. Let's move this from the D block to the B block because we need to talk about this now,' etc., etc., because you're looking at the clock and you're paying attention. Why? Because the audience is telling you what they're caring about in real time. And a lot of times people look at me and they see me with my head down. It's either because I'm getting a text from some player, some coach, some executive, some owner, or I'm looking at, 'Wait a minute now. Something's just happened. It's trending. We got to move this up. We going to talk about this tomorrow. We got to move this up today. We going to talk about this in the 11 o'clock hour. We got to move this up to the 10 o'clock hour.' That level of interaction, that wrapped attention that you're giving to the audience reminds them of their importance, which makes them watch, which builds ratings, which builds revenue, which ensures that we all get paid. And that is why we do what we do. By the way, I want to thank him for being here today because in order to do this, he's not on First Take today. So, this might be the smallest audience that First Take has had in a long time.
