Hello everyone. And hello James. I haven't seen you in a while.
Yes. So looking back at culture, I came across all sorts of statements that I then discovered were actually called Gormanisms. And so I thought that I would throw at you a few of your Gormanisms and...
This could be dangerous, but anyway.
Well, only one of them I think. I think the rest are fine. So then you can talk to us about it.
The first one: strategy earns you the right to talk about culture. Tell us about that one.
Yeah. It's very hard to talk about culture if the business isn't working, you know.
Which is what happened when you came into Morgan Stanley.
You can go. I mean, how this came up, the board of directors came to me when Barclays Bank had a new chairman, new CEO, and they did a global tour which was a culture tour. And they said to me, kind of, why aren't you doing that? I said, because firstly, we're still figuring out what we're going to be when we grow up. I don't know what Barclays is going to be when they grow up. What do you do if you go around the world, you tell people, 'This is our culture. This is what it means. These are our core values.' A week later, you come back and say, 'Unfortunately, you're fired.' But it's still a great culture. So, you've got to have a strategy which is viable, which gives people an opportunity and promise for the future, and then build the cultural values around it. And those values are what let you change your strategy over time because it gives you the confidence it's coming from the right place. So strong companies, I think of it as it's like different cabins on a train. You've got the strategy, then the culture, then the strategy, then the culture, then the strategy, and that's how companies stay around for decades, centuries, is they're prepared to reinvent. They reinvent with the strong bones that come from confidence in their culture.
But you've also said that nothing drives culture more than winning. So winning, people have to feel that they're winning before you can forge a real culture.
Well, that's something I think I agree with, with was it Michael today? Although I'd have to say, I just want to say, and I'm not saying this to pander to you, I flew in on SAS this morning. It was a fabulous flight. The food was great. The people were nice. They didn't charge me for my bags. Everything. It arrived 50 minutes early. 50. I was the first person through customs. I loved it. So, I'm sure Ryanair is good. I just haven't been on it.
Where the toilets are free?
Yeah, toilets are free. It was good. You know, I think if again, people will support a non-winning culture, but you'll get a certain type of people who support that. If you want real goers, people who are prepared to put themselves, you know, on the line of fire, run to where the drama is, then they need to know that they're part of a winning organization. Charisma works great once you tell people to, you know, charge up the hill and they get all shot out and they say, 'Well, that's not a really good idea.' You say, 'It didn't work so well, but charge again.' And they say, 'Have you got another way of getting there?' You know, it's like, so people need to be part of something. And if it's winning, it's infectious. And if it's infectious, they truly do exceptional things. So yeah, your job as a leader is to figure out a winning strategy that puts everybody in a position where they can thrive.
Employees should stop feeling like tenants looking for their next bonus and start feeling like landlords. It's quite difficult to tell bankers not to be thinking about their next bonus.
Well, I say it in the nicest possible way. You know, at the end of the day, you've got to decide. This was another thing I had a discussion with the board. I said if I have a dream which is to get a really smart neuroscientist and really smart software developer and a computer scientist and put them in a room together and say come up with a camera and the camera has to take a picture of the inside of people's heads. So when they go to work in the morning, they stand in front of the gates, you know, the floppy gates, whatever they are. You don't pull out your card to get in. The gate opens if it takes a picture of your head and you've passed the test. And the test is half of you has to be coming in for yourself because to deal with adversity, to drive forward, you've got to have ego, confidence, whatever. But half of you has to be coming in for the institution. So the rallying cry to the bankers or the traders or anybody was, you know, it only works if we all make it work. And if it's just about you getting your piece, 98% is you. If everybody does that, that's a war of attrition that won't end well. And by the way, you're paid in the stock and the stock is going to go up if it goes well. So why wouldn't you want this all to work? And that means putting a little bit of yourself aside to do what's right in the institution. And happily, our investment bankers did. They were fantastic about it. But blunt language and expressing it as, you know, I don't come in for James Gorman Securities. I came in for Morgan Stanley and I respected its history. I respected the people who'd led it before me and I respect the people after it. Your job is to take the ship from one port to another, not to take over the ship only for yourself.
Was it much harder particularly during the COVID pandemic? And with younger, you often hear today that younger people want experiences. They're not necessarily looking for a career in one institution. And you know, you've had a few controversial comments like, if you're so unhappy, just leave, which is reasonable.
Sort of thing my dad would say to me. You know, it's like, it's the truth.
But you've also said if you're in career land, you're building a professional life and that requires being around other human beings to pick up soft cues. Young people are nuts if they're not in the office. That's where mentoring happens.
Yeah. I felt very strongly as COVID was going on and I was criticized by a lot of people for what I said and partly was I'd had COVID very early and got through it. So their attitude was it's easy for you to say. What I said was, I don't know if it's on your list, if you can go to a restaurant, you can go to the office.
There's one on the Hampton.
