If you were 20 years, if the 35-year-old CZ who was working crazy hours those 12 months that you guys went zero to a billion in profits, if he's the 35-year-old today in today's market, what industry are you entering? What are you doing? What software are you using? What technology are you using? Where would you get into today?
Well, I think for me, I would still get into the same industry. I think you can't just chase every hot industry. You have to do what you do best. You have to do what you're good at, what interests you, and what's valuable for others. You got to find the intersection of those three things. And those three things don't change overnight. For a young person, you know, you can learn about blockchain or you can learn about AI. Both are good. So I wouldn't change what I would do. But I would change the way I would do it a little bit. I would be much more focused, much less distractions. And just with hindsight, right, you will know like, okay, I can be so much more focused instead of getting distracted in a lot of different places, etc. Yeah.
Got it. So, internet was first, blockchain was second, AI is third. What do you think is going to be fourth?
I don't know. That's very hard to predict. Like for example, before ChatGPT came out, no, like AlphaZero, AlphaGo was there, right? That wasn't a big industry. But then ChatGPT came, that was suddenly okay, all this AI things happening. Before that, you know, Sam may know but I didn't know. So I have to wait for it to happen to see what's next. And what's next probably going to be another, I don't know, another 10 years away.
You think the next is going to be another 10 years away?
No, I don't know for sure. I'm just saying that roughly, right? I don't know for sure.
Because at any point we could wake up and something new is here. We're like, wait a minute, what is quantum computing? And you know, it's going to take this long to build it and all of a sudden what if they do it faster? What could that turn into? So who knows what's going to be taking place.
It could happen tomorrow. So yeah, true. It can happen. So, it's a safer answer to say it could happen tomorrow.
But, so let's go back to Binance. We're talking about SBF when the conversation came up. Sam Bankman-Fried with FTX. So, at one point you guys did have a relationship together, right? The two of you.
Well, we had an investment into FTX. So, there was...
Was there ever a relationship or no?
No. I wouldn't... well, we knew each other, we met each other. We had each other's contact, but I wouldn't call it a very close relationship. I probably talked to him less than 10 times in total.
Did you guys ever break bread? Just the two of you?
We had one meal together.
This was when he was seeking investment from Binance, right? So we just chatted. We just tried to get to know each other a little bit better, etc. We had one meal together, just the two of us.
When you walked away, what was the feeling you got from him?
The feeling I got is he was very high EQ.
Yeah, he's very... yeah. So, he knows what to say, when to say it, in front of whom, in what circumstances. He will say the right stuff. He was very respectful to me. He was saying all the right stuff like we're going to collaborate, we're going to build this, we're going to help to grow the crypto industry, we're going to help the regulatory evolution. He was saying all the right stuff, you know. Yeah.
Did you walk away saying I like this guy, I trust this guy. Sounds like a good player.
We actually, after that meal, we actually declined to invest. That was in summer 2019.
Where was it at? Were you guys in the States?
Actually, it was somewhere in Asia, I think. Yeah. So I think Singapore somewhere. But we actually turned... like he wanted the investment from us. We actually turned it down. And then he came back in November to our CFO at the time and he made a much improved offer and then we invested. Yeah.
Why'd you take the meeting the first time he came? Was he already a player? Was he somebody that was a known guy at that time?
He was one of the larger traders. He was a VIP trader. Alameda was a VIP trader on Binance. So like the VIP manager is like, 'Well, give him a meeting, right?' I usually don't meet with VIPs, but he has a specific proposal. He wants to build a futures exchange. He wants to build FTX. He wants us to invest.
And this is where you guys put $2 billion into it.
No, no, no. We put much less money into it. I think we probably put a couple million dollars into it.
And this is way early on.
This is early on. Okay. I think we got close to $2 billion out of the deal when we exited at the time. And then we held them in FTT tokens. Part of it was in FTT tokens which went to zero now.
Oh, and that's why they're suing Binance for I think 1.76 billion or whatever the number is, right?
There is no ongoing litigation. So...
Between them though, you're not involved in that litigation.
I'm not too sure. I don't think I'm... I don't think...
But you haven't gone to court. So...
My lawyer's handling it. But my lawyers did advise me not to talk about ongoing litigations.
Yeah. Yeah. If I remember correctly, your tweet or the decision was one of the reasons a lot of people said that caused them to go out because you came out and you said, 'We're out. We're not doing anything.' You were speaking to Erin Burnett if I'm not mistaken, you got on Erin Burnett, you guys are on MSNBC or CNBC and then you said no I don't feel good about it, you made some comments, we're out. And then from there everybody said if CZ doesn't feel good about it there may be something going on. The crypto billionaire who helped expose SBF and solve this calls him one of the greatest fraudsters in history and accuses media and thought leaders of being manipulated. Those are pretty strong words right there. Who said that by the way Rob? Is that...
I don't think those were my exact words.
