John Stumpf, CEO of Wells Fargo at the Bay Area Council's Outlook Conference 2016

🎥 May 01, 2016 📺 BayAreaCouncil ⏱ 41m

Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO John Stumpf delivers keynote address at the Bay Area Council's 2016 Outlook Conference, ...

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About John Stumpf

In September 2016, Stumpf testified before the Senate Banking Committee regarding Wells Fargo's creation of millions of unauthorized accounts. During the hearing, Senator Jeff Merkley questioned whether Wells Fargo had created a "pressure cooker sales culture" that put employees in an "impossible situation." Stumpf responded that such practices had "no place in our culture" and that "people like that do not belong here." He stated, "I started out today by accepting full responsibility," but also noted that "the vast majority did the right thing." When asked about overdraft protection practices, Stumpf said he did not have extensive details and would have his staff work with the committee. Earlier in 2016, Stumpf spoke at the Bay Area Council's Outlook Conference, where he discussed economic conditions and infrastructure investment. He stated that "failure is a necessary part of capitalism" and that "today is the best time to do a huge public sector infrastructure spend and investment." He also commented on housing affordability in the Bay Area, saying, "We need to fix that; we need to allow for the people who work here to be able to live and afford to raise a family here." Stumpf described Wells Fargo's community involvement as "community investing," adding that "we've never seen one of our banks do well over time where the community does poorly."

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Transcript (26 segments)

Tony Earley0:00

It is my great honor to introduce a business and community leader who has been one of the Bay Area Council's great champions and strongest supporters. Please welcome to the stage Tony Earley, Chairman and CEO and President of PG&E.

Well, good afternoon everyone and thanks for coming. You know, Michael coming up here without his notes and reminding my worst fear is I bring the wrong notes and you give the wrong speech at the wrong place. Let me first congratulate the Bay Area Council for putting together another great event. This Outlook conference every year focuses on important and relevant issues, and we're going to discuss some of the most important issues facing our region here today. The council brings people together, various voices, decision makers, so that we can collaborate on solutions. And we're proud at PG&E to support this work. And it's my particular pleasure to be able to introduce our first speaker today, and that's to introduce the CEO of Wells Fargo, John Stumpf. Now, I'm particularly happy to have this role because Wells Fargo and PG&E have a lot in common. When you think about the history of California, both of our companies can trace their roots to the same year, 1852. That's 164 years ago. Now, neither John nor I were here then, although there's some weeks where it feels like it's been that long. But over the years, Californians have really counted on us. They've looked to us for some of their most basic needs, essential parts of life like managing their money and delivering energy. But as companies and as individuals, they've looked for jobs, and as companies, we've provided hundreds of thousands of jobs to Californians over the last 164 years. And importantly, both companies have had to learn to adapt to meet the changing needs of our customers and to solve the various challenges that we've faced over time. And the same can be said for the role that we play today. In a few minutes, John and I are going to have a chance to talk more about the role that Wells Fargo is playing in meeting some of the biggest challenges that we face, both here in California and across the nation. But first, let me spend a minute introducing John. Before his long banking career began, his working life on his family's farm, he traces many of the core principles of his work ethic to those early years: values like honesty, persistence, accountability, and appreciation for teamwork. In 1982, John began his Wells Fargo career where he joined the former Norwest Corporation in the loan administration department. For the next several years, he held numerous management positions and then served as Regional President for Norwest Banks in Colorado and Arizona, and then Norwest Bank in Texas. Now, it's worth noting that during his time in Texas, John led Norwest's acquisition of 30 Texas banks with total assets of 13 billion. Something tells me there was a little bit of an element of the Wild West there. It was probably using that stagecoach to round people up, or at least round banks up there. When Norwest and Wells Fargo merged in 1998, John became head of the Southwest Banking Group and later head of the new Western Banking Group. And by 2005, he was named President of the whole company, and 2007 he was named Chief Executive Officer. And when he got to that position, he didn't waste any time. He led one of the largest bank mergers in history with the purchase of Wachovia in North Carolina. Finally, in 2010, John became Wells Fargo's Chairman. And I don't have to remind you the challenges that banks have faced during John's time as leader of one of America's leading banks. But today, Wells Fargo is stronger than ever, and John has been recognized for his remarkable leadership, including Banker of the Year by the American Banker in 2013 and CEO of the Year by Morningstar in 2016. John is also active in the community. He serves on the board of directors for the Clearing House, the Financial Services Roundtable, Target Corporation, and Chevron Corporation. He also serves on the Federal Advisory Council of the Federal Reserve Board, representing the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank. You know, on a personal note, when I was a newcomer to San Francisco a few years ago, John reached out to welcome me. We found a common bond in our Midwestern roots and our commitment to the work of United Way. And as a major customer of Wells Fargo, PG&E has been able to finance billions in energy infrastructure in California because of the support of Wells Fargo. So it gives me particular pleasure to introduce to you John Stumpf.

John Stumpf5:00

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wow, Tony, I could listen to you all day. You know, that might have been the second best introduction I've ever had. I was in Texas last week, the guy introduced me, I did it myself. Other than that one, it was perfect. First of all, thank you for having me today. Bankers don't get invited out a lot, so it's nice to be with such a great group of people. I'm going to share three things today and then Tony and I will have a conversation. I want to talk a little bit about the economy, the US economy, and we have a particularly important and interesting view of the economy being the nation's largest home lender, small business lender, one of the major auto lenders, commercial real estate, energy, and so forth. So we see a lot of the real economy. I also want to align a bit on what I see in the Bay Area economy. And finally, I want to talk a bit about our company and our industry because lots of innovation is going on. But before I do that, you all should know how much I love living here. I've lived and worked in four major cities in the US: my native Minnesota, I found my way from northern Minnesota, a little town that had about this many people in it, to Minneapolis-St. Paul. Then I went to Denver, Colorado, San Antonio, Texas, and then San Francisco, California. Came here in late 2002, and the changes I have seen in these 14 years or 13 and a half years is incredible. I did have an interesting experience I want to share with you. So I came here to run the consumer side of the business across the country, and as part of that business, we have thousands of branches, we have at that time we had an online business, which of course we do, we had a phone bank, we had other things. And by early 2003, I was starting to go out and meet people who I had not met before who worked for us. And one particular day, I had an appointment to go to Concord, and we had a large phone bank operation in a 10-story building or so in Concord. And people who know me know that I'm notorious for being a bad driver and getting lost. So knowing that, Dick Kovacevich, the CEO at the time, said, 'I'm going to give you a real break today. I'm going to have my driver take you out there.' So that's a pretty big deal. So I put on my best suit, clean starched shirt, tie, I crawled in the backseat of Dick's Cadillac, and we went out to Concord. As we pulled up to the phone bank building, as I got out of the backseat, I immediately knew I had a big problem. I was out of fashion and character. I didn't get the dress code right. There wasn't a suit and tie within 10 miles. So as I walked into the building, these are all of our team members, none of them know me, and they're looking at me. And I just make it to the elevator before it closes, and I go on the elevator, I press the button, I turn around, everybody's at my back. And as we start going up, I hear it gets very quiet. Some guy says, 'Who's the guy in the suit?' Another guy says, 'That's Gray Davis. He's being recalled.' So later that day, I come back to the bank. Dick said, 'How'd your day go?' I said, 'Dick, it was a terrible day.' He said, 'What's wrong?' I said, 'My people think I'm Gray Davis.' He says, 'Don't worry, everybody thinks I'm Arnold.'

So let me talk about the US economy. We went through the worst downturn in our nation's memory, but for those who lived through the Great Depression, and I'm lucky that my parents are still alive. My dad's 94, my mom's close, but she's still fussy about her age. Let's just say she's about that age. And they are children of the Great Depression that never left their mentality for their entire life. I don't know what history will actually call 2008, but it was a very difficult time for our country, for our economy, and for lots of our citizens and participants, small businessmen, women, homeowners, and so forth. So we had this big shock in 2008, and we've been building back since. And there are some remarkable things about this recovery. We've had 73 consecutive months of positive job growth in the private sector, unheard of in the record books of any kind. And last couple years, we've averaged over 200,000 jobs a month. We actually had a disappointing number in April, 160,000. Most of us would, in historical terms, be thrilled about 160,000 jobs. 2015 was the best year for autos and auto sales since maybe the year 2000, if my memory serves me right. And it bodes well for the future. The average American car is over 11 years old. Commercial real estate is booming. As I look, as I travel to cities, and I do, I travel all the time, one of my favorite things to do is count the number of cranes in the air. I don't know if these things multiply, if they meet each other, I don't know what's going on, but there's cranes everywhere. The private sector infrastructure spend is in high gear. Campuses are being rebuilt, the core of cities are being rebuilt, people are moving back. You see that everywhere, not only in the primary major cities in America, but even in the secondary and the tertiary cities. People want to live back close to the urban core. If you look at low energy prices, while it's been difficult on the energy patch, for the rest of us, this is good news. For those who have hydrocarbons as part of their operating, whether it's an ag producer, a manufacturer, a distributor, a homeowner, a consumer who puts gas in at the pump, it's been a real, it's almost like a tax deduction. And there's other parts of the economy that are also showing real signs of strength. On the other side, because this is the economy that you never say the economy is good without using the word 'but'. This is the 'but' recovery. Everything's good, but... and the 'but' side is wages have not grown the way we hoped they would have grown. Housing has not responded in the way housing we thought would have responded. As a percentage of homeowners, of people who have a dwelling, the homeowner percentage has come down and continues to come down. The rest of the world's influence on us, we can feel it, we know it, it's a global economy, and their economies are in tougher shape or have recovered slower than we have, and we feel that influence. So it looks to me like it looks, because I agree with a lot of the consensus out there, that this will probably be about a 2% GDP growth year. I think the big wild card is will the consumer continue to spend and increase their spending. Consumer balance sheets are in the best shape they've been in in decades. Last quarter when we reported our earnings, I made a statement that today 15% of household earnings go for debt service. It's the lowest number we've had in years and years and years because people are paying down debt and interest rates are so low. But consumers tend to be spending more money today on experiences as opposed to things. Restaurants are full, theaters are full, airlines are full, stores are not so full.

As it relates to the Bay Area economy, everybody would love to have the problem we have. Not only are we seeing terrific private sector infrastructure spend, we're seeing some public sector infrastructure spend. In addition to that, the housing challenge here is a bit different than the rest of the country. I think the reason that we're not seeing, even though housing starts, new house starts are up 22% a year ago across the country, in other parts of the country, they don't have some of the challenges we have, like affordability and availability. We've had too many years in San Francisco and the Bay Area, San Francisco specifically and the Bay Area generally, where it was too difficult to manufacture housing, whether single family or multifamily. We need to fix that. We need to allow for the people who work here to be able to live and afford to raise a family here. The speaker before talked about the fact that San Francisco and the Bay Area is much more than technology, and it is. Four of the 10 top market cap companies in America are headquartered in the Bay Area, and they're not all technology. So as I see San Francisco, if we can work together to solve for infrastructure and solve for housing, we will have a leg or two up so we can continue to make the investments and produce products and services that continue to challenge and change the world.

Let me go to the third area where I spend most of my time, and that's our company and our industry. Tony stole a line from me I was going to mention. I will mention that Wells Fargo and San Francisco have had a 164-year love affair. We started here in 1852. The state was two years old. We had about 50,000 people total population in the whole Bay Area. Where was the capital that year? Not Benicia now, Vallejo. Benicia was a year after, San Jose was a year before. The year of incorporation was in someplace south, I can't recall exactly, but it went to Sacramento the year after in 1854. So we've come from humble beginnings along with San Francisco. We've grown up together. Today we have 270,000 team members across the globe, most of them in the US. 97% of our revenues are here from the US. We served one in three customers last year. Our investment in communities totaled $281 million, number two among all corporations. We helped over 16,000 nonprofits with partnership dollars to help them in their goals. In San Francisco and the Bay Area, we have 17,000 team members, 8,000 here in San Francisco. We're the city's largest employer. We did $20 million of philanthropy last year, ranking us in the top quartile, helping over 900 nonprofits. And if I were going to ask you what city in the world is home to the headquarters of the most valuable bank on the planet, what would you say? Well, you already know the answer, but I'll give you some, I'll tease you. Maybe Paris, maybe London, oh, it's got to be New York. It'd be San Francisco. Now, there's a couple of state-owned banks in China that would argue with that, but let's put them aside. We're the 15th largest bank in the world, not that we ever set out to be large. We're not even number one or two in the US, but our market cap, the number of shares times our stock price, makes us the most valuable bank on the planet. And we owe much to this community, this area, and this state for the success we've enjoyed.

So in our industry, you're reading a lot and hearing a lot about the so-called 'fintech', which is a made-up word, half financial, well, just a little bit financial, and mostly technology, and they put the two together. It's also known as shadow banks or marketplace something. And rightfully so, that industry is getting a lot of visibility as they innovate, as they provide products and services consumers, small businessmen and women, entrepreneurs, and large businesses want. I think some of the biggest fintechs are the regulated side of the industry, and Wells Fargo in particular. If we were not an innovative company, we would still have stagecoaches on the freeway. We were the first bank to be actively online. Now, Tony mentioned 18 years ago, Norwest, where my part of the family I came from, and Wells Fargo merged. At the time, Norwest did not have an internet offering. Now, Al Gore had invented the internet, we just had not heard about it in Minnesota. But thank goodness the folks from Wells did. And we were the first bank in our industry, and our bank specifically helped create Visa and MasterCard. It was called BankAmericard. We created the ATM machines, we created internet banking, bill pay, all the things that we just take for granted today. Ten years ago, we didn't have a mobile offering. Today, mobile banking is our largest single channel of all of our channels. 16 million customers see us, access us, transact with us through mobile devices. Every minute at Wells Fargo, we have 13,500 customer interactions. All you, you go one, two, three, four, five, a thousand transactions just happened, and many of those happen through digits. Much of that technology invented just down the road from where we are today. And we're going to see more innovation in our industry. You'll be able to go to one of our ATMs this year without your card and use your mobile device to activate your ATM machine. We'll be the last generation to use the term credit card and debit card. Why need a card? Same reason if you take a photograph, why do you need film? It'll be accessed through a mobile device of one type or another. We'll be the last generation to ever use usernames and passwords. You ready? Can I agree? In fact, today when you use your Apple iPhone and you put your thumb or your imprint on it to unlock the phone, you touch the Wells Fargo app and you touch your thumb and the app comes up and you're online. And you're going to continue to see more and more innovations over time. Things that are possible today in our industry were unthinkable two and three years ago. Things that will be possible next year and the year after are unknowable today. So as we see customers rightfully demanding more convenience, more value, more clarity, and yes, more safety, we as an industry will continue to step up to that. And safety is an important thing. When I think about what it is that we really do and what is the core element, what is the DNA of our relationships with our customers, it's trust. And we are spending a boatload of dollars, more than a boatload, a whole armada, on cybersecurity. When customers do business with us, they want to make sure their business is private, it's secure, it's not shared, not sold, and not lost.

Let me end by, we're surely in a political season this year, and I'd like just to offer a couple of thoughts. And no, I'm not going to tell you who I'm voting for. You know, Dr. or none of the above. So we'll... but I will say this: we're the luckiest people on the planet. We live in the best country ever known. We share borders with friendly neighbors. We are a group of people that do things and make stuff and innovate. We have the best military. We change government every two, four, six, eight years without tanks on the street. We have the deepest, most transparent, best capitalized financial service industry on the planet. But as we look to the future, we're never going to save our way out of our problems. We're never going to tax our way out of our problems. We're not going to redistribute our way out of our challenges. We're going to grow our way out of our problems. Growth is the cure to almost everything. When I got in the industry in 1975, 23 or 24% of our economy were things that we manufactured. I grew up on a farm. Either we were a Chevy farm or a Ford. A couple people in town had a Chrysler, but we didn't really count them. We made those things here. The furniture we had in our homes was made in the Carolinas. Those who could afford a TV, an RCA or a Zenith, was made here. Our clothing was made here. Today, less than 10% of our economy represents manufactured goods. We're not going to manufacture everything here, nor should we, but we surely could do more. But the biggest aha today, if we want growth, is infrastructure. As I mentioned earlier, across the United States, the private sector is building like we've never seen before. New buildings, new facilities, housing, industrial buildings, a lot of it in the urban core. Today is the best time to do a huge public sector infrastructure spend and investment. Interest rates are at 50-year lows. Commodities are at all-time lows in many cases. You take in real dollars, and there's an able and ready workforce. So we can match what's already been done on the private sector with what needs to be done in the public sector. And when that happens, we all participate in the growth of the economy. Because after all, good jobs are more than just good salaries. It's about the decency and the sense of pride, the dignity of being part of the solution. So thank you for your time. Thank you for giving me a little bit of this time this afternoon. And I think Tony's coming up now, we're going to have a bit of a 'great, less filling' event.

Tony Earley27:16

John, thanks for those insightful remarks. I discovered we have several other things in common. Both of my parents are still alive, they're in their 90s, and I've learned you don't talk politics with them when they get to that age. The other thing I discovered we have in common is the commitment to California. So you talked about Wells Fargo's commitment. You know, certainly PG&E isn't going to do a reverse merger and move our wires to Ireland. And yet, recently, Chief Executive magazine took a survey of 500-plus CEOs, and California was voted the worst place to do business. And I wouldn't ask you whether you agree or disagree, but are there two or three things you can think of that the Bay Area Council ought to be working on to make California a better place to do business?

John Stumpf28:05

Sure. So we've been here 164 years, and I hope we're here for another 164 years. And there are things about just being here as a large US-based company. You know, our location being on the west coast is not helpful, as I have to... you'd be better in the central part of the country, of course. You look at the tax structure and some other things, those all would be negatives. But there are clearly things that can be done for us to continue to employ people here. We have to have a place where they can raise a family, live, enjoy the things that are here. So again, housing, housing, housing. We surely need to make sure that we don't have excessive regulation such that there is a disincentive to do the right thing. In some cases, when you have duplicative or, you know, three times the regulation, sometimes the medicine is worse than what you're trying to cure. But I would say of all things the Bay Area Council could influence, the idea of infrastructure spend and housing by far are the biggest issues because there's so many advantages of being here: a great workforce, a great place to live, the diversity of our people, of our thinking, and the progressiveness of all the things that our people are interested in. You know, we used to walk down the street looking around, today we're walking around the street like this. That was invented here. I mean, so there's just so much to be thankful for.

Tony Earley29:54

Well, you know, you've lived in lots of different places, so you've seen a number of different states. I'm sure you've had a similar reaction to me when you come here. I mean, California sets some really aggressive goals and they're stretch goals, and California has really been the leader in many different areas. But one of the issues then is the micromanagement. And do you feel that they would just set the goals and let companies accomplish those goals rather than all the specifics of, well, to achieve it you've got to do XYZ, everything else?

John Stumpf30:27

You know, I agree with that point. It always comes to shock when I deal with a regulator, whether at the state level or at the federal level. In most cases, we agree with what's trying to be accomplished, but in many cases, we're left out of the decision-making and implementation, such that we could probably accomplish what's intended to be accomplished if we work together. And I think too many times the public sector and the private sector see each other with some set of suspicion as opposed to collaboration.

Tony Earley31:06

California's a leader in the environmental field, and I was just speaking at a Fortune Tech conference yesterday down in Carlsbad. And there are people who are very optimistic about environmental technology, what it could do. But then people also reminded there have been at least three crashes over the years where there was exuberance around investment in green technologies. You know, as a bank, you're involved in many of these sectors. What's Wells' take on green tech here in California, and what are you seeing worldwide in that?

John Stumpf31:41

We're the largest investor in or financer of all things wind and solar, so we've made a huge commitment there. So we are active in that. Clearly, in most of those, the economics of most of those require some level of tax or government support. But we're active there, recognizing that that will get better and better over time. In our own situation, I think 30, 40% of our buildings are LEED certified. We have solar panels on roofs. We've taken paper out of our 6,000-plus banking locations for the most part. So all of those things are important, and they're important to us because we're not only a corporation, we're also people who live here, and it's important to us and it's important to our customers.

Tony Earley32:38

So now I'm going to turn to an easy subject. You mentioned the election. So you've got Bernie who wants to break up all the big banks, I presume that Wells is in that group that he's talking about. You've got Hillary who wants to deny that she ever talked to any banks. You've got Donald who's probably left every bank in New York holding the bag on one of his projects. And you're looking for an answer. What do you... I mean, any feeling for... I mean, what are we going to see in terms of fiscal policy and regulation and budgetary policy in the financial sector?

John Stumpf33:17

You know, I don't clearly know who will be elected and what the policies will be. I think it's important that this audience know that I believe, and most of my colleagues who run large institutions believe, that there ought to be no company in any industry too big to fail. That's a bad model. Failure is a necessary part of capitalism. And there's so much emotion around what happened in 2008. It's not well discussed that Wells Fargo actually used its capital to buy an institution, Wachovia, that we didn't require any special support of any kind from the federal government, and that's the way it should be. Since that time, there's been a big body of law passed in Dodd-Frank. Capital levels have gone way up. We have two or three times the capital. In fact, we have as much capital today as the entire company's assets were when Wells and Norwest merged. Our liquidity is way up. So there's been a lot of work done in capital, liquidity, resolution planning, regulatory regimes. And the secret about the success of America is we need financial services participants of all sizes and types, from small community banks, my little hometown in Minnesota has a community bank, if that bank left, that town would roll up and blow away. We need them, we want them, they participate in a very meaningful way. Regional banks, large banks, non-banks, soon-to-be-created banks. So I think they're all important, and they all ought to have the level of capital and oversight that makes sure that the taxpayer is never asked. And not to revisit 2008 too much, but if you look at the large failures of that time, you go down a long list before you ever get to a commercial bank. You go through government-supported entities, you go through insurance companies, you go through investment banks, and the commercial banks with deposits, for the most part, were not the ones that were failing.

Tony Earley35:38

You know, your company has had a history of being managed conservatively, focusing on risk. And I think a lot of the regulation is trying to get other banks to have a similar approach. But do you think that the pendulum has swung too far and that we're driving some of these smaller financial institutions out of business because of the burden of all the federal regulations that are being placed on them?

John Stumpf36:06

You surely hear that a lot from smaller institutions, and there is clearly truth in that. And I'm actually advocating and supporting for smaller institutions to have less regulatory oversight where I don't think it helps them at all, so they can use those dollars to invest in things that do matter, like cyber, because we're all connected in that way, or in serving their communities. So surely there's a lot going on there. The other unfortunate part is that some of this regulation, not all, but some, have made it more difficult for us to lend money or serve customers who might be on the margin, unbanked, emerging. And that's not helpful. Nobody that I know who is successful banks with the corner liquor store and their mattress. They bank, they build up a credit history and a relationship with a bank of some size or type, and they grow. And we want more people in the system as opposed to out.

Tony Earley37:22

So you mentioned cyber, and when I get asked what keeps me up at night, cyber is right at the top of my list. Where does it fit into your priorities?

John Stumpf37:31

I'm sleeping less than you are. So as I mentioned before in my prepared comments, the reason people do business with us or any large financial institution is based on trust. Those digits that you get on a mobile device, or if you're like my parents, you still get something on paper, you believe that to be the truth and you believe that to be available to you, protected, not shared, not lost, not stolen, not compromised. And at the core of trust is us making sure that we don't have a cyber event. And cyber crime is the only crime in the world where the person who gets mugged is considered the criminal. So if you think about from a corporation, large corporations who've had that, and we've seen recently where financial crime was visited upon the Federal Reserve Bank, where $81 million shows up in a casino in someplace in Manila. So this is real stuff. It's one of my two standing meetings every month with our cyber team, and more than that ad hoc depending on what's going on.

Tony Earley38:56

You point to a real issue because I think cyber is where the business sector and government have to work together. Absolutely. And yet up until recently, you're right, the victim was considered the criminal. Although I will tell you, I think the federal government's attitude changed when the federal personnel office was hacked, and they had to tell me that because I have a security clearance that I was at risk. But we still need to have more partnership there.

John Stumpf39:20

Tony, there's no question. In fact, I think the financial services industry has done a good job to work together. But we need state authorities, local, state, and federal. And for those of you who have a federal government background, I mean, it's not easy working what NSA might know, the CIA might not, and getting them to work together so they can work with us is really a tall ask.

Tony Earley39:46

So let me bring it back to the Bay Area to wrap up. I know you're very proud of the fact that Wells Fargo is the most philanthropic company in the US year in and year out. And I know you and your employees take a lot of pride in that. But you know, here in the Bay Area, you've got examples of some of the newer companies. Some of them have been very good at supporting the community, but quite honestly, there have been others that haven't paid attention to it. I mean, why do you commit so much time, effort, and money to your philanthropic activities, and what advice do you have for some of these newer companies as they grow?

John Stumpf40:25

Yeah, in fact, we don't use the word philanthropic that often when it comes to that part of our business. We view it as community investing. And the very simple truth is we've never seen one of our banks do well over time where the community does poorly. We're linked in a very direct and special way. Most companies get the fact you need team members, whether you call them associates or employees, we would never use that word employee, but team member. You have to have customers. There's an investor. Somebody missed the fourth leg of the chair, which is community. We do best where the communities are vibrant and diverse and engaged and spirited and all the things you would want, things that you see here in San Francisco. It's just plain good business. The same way inclusiveness is plain good business. It's got a huge business component to it.

Tony Earley41:28

Well, John, in my four and a half years here, it's been just an absolute pleasure to get to know you, to get to know your company, your team members. They provide a great model for the business community, both here in San Francisco and all over the country. So it's a pleasure to spend some time with you today.

John Stumpf41:44

Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you.